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[aaronjb]

We've been looking for a new (different new, not new new) car for Lou, specifically an automatic Mini, post 2006 (to avoid the chocolate CVT gearbox), 1.6L Cooper as it's mostly town work etc..

..having looked at some proper nails at "back street" car dealers - the last one had a fog lamp hanging out, stank of burning oil, had a broken gear lever release, pulled to the left like it wanted to mate with the hedge and sounded like it had a knackered wheel bearing and, heck, the "dealer" hadn't even bothered to hoover the crap out of it - I'm drawn to auction cars as they look much better than 90% of the stock on forecourts.

Lou is wary of auctions though, as you can't test drive them, despite me pointing out that most of these "dealers" are getting their stock from the auctions.

Any advice? Is it madness to buy a £3-5k car at auction? Are they all nails?

For anyone with a BCA account, I was looking at this one: https://auctionview.british-car-auctions.co.uk/Results/LotDetail/24d84ad563d348ac8921d9073f75d7fb?VehId=2e6166a4-8c5a-4b0f-b645-5fdcee7aaaa3&FromSearch=true&searchQuery=q=Mini&bq=make_exact%3AMINI%7Cmodel_exact%3ACOOPER%7Cgearbox_exact%3AAutomatic%7Cfueltype_exact%3APetrol%7Cplate_exact%3A2012%2062%2C2010%2010%2C2008%2058%2C2008%2008%2C2007%2057%7Cgrade_exact%3A4%2C5&sort=Relevance&missingMileage=True&awaitingAppraisal=True&page=1&extraFiltersActive=true&returnTo=MT57FZS&promoAppliedSets=&Source=Search&selectedVehicleIds=

[Sir Tigger KC]

There are a lot of good cars at BCA.    But don't expect it to be cheap especially as a retail buyer with the buyers premium. 

That one is from WBAC, has less than 6 months MOT, is grade 4, has 1 key and no history.    Don't forget to check the MOT history, but as above will be over 6 months old now. When you are at the auction, you'll generally have about 5 minutes from when they unlock it to when it goes to the rostrum, so make sure you are there when they unlock it and start it.  The amount of cars that look immaculate but they struggle to start!    Some of the drivers are quite friendly and will let you pop the bonnet, open the boot etc, others not so...

I think you can find better, cheaper cars privately tbh, but I've always enjoyed the buzz of buying cars at auction and have had some bargains. 

I've had disasters as well.....     

[aaronjb]

Lou is also wary of private sales for some reason Hence we've been trolling all over the country looking at cars at dealers (partly because she wants to trade in her Smart, I expect, rather than sell it privately or to WBAC)..

Funny story - the dealer we went to last weekend (see description of said skip above) also had a much better condition 2011 diesel Cooper in - I asked if we could test drive it: "No, but you can read the AA report on it". Er. Thanks? I shouldn't have been surprised - the dealer took a call from a potential customer while we were out on the first test drive and it contained gems like "I've got over 80 cars, I can't be expected to remember the details of all of them.", "Yeah, probably a few [dents]", "No, price is what the price is."

Afterwards Lou said to me: "I'd probably have bought that one if we could have test driven it"

I should really email them and tell them that 


Anyway, back to BCA - good point on the price, there's only really any point if we can pick up a reasonable bargain or at least underpay vs a dealer..

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Lou is also wary of private sales for some reason Hence we've been trolling all over the country looking at cars at dealers (partly because she wants to trade in her Smart, I expect, rather than sell it privately or to WBAC)..

Funny story - the dealer we went to last weekend (see description of said skip above) also had a much better condition 2011 diesel Cooper in - I asked if we could test drive it: "No, but you can read the AA report on it". Er. Thanks? I shouldn't have been surprised - the dealer took a call from a potential customer while we were out on the first test drive and it contained gems like "I've got over 80 cars, I can't be expected to remember the details of all of them.", "Yeah, probably a few [dents]", "No, price is what the price is."

Afterwards Lou said to me: "I'd probably have bought that one if we could have test driven it"

I should really email them and tell them that 


Anyway, back to BCA - good point on the price, there's only really any point if we can pick up a reasonable bargain or at least underpay vs a dealer..

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume 'Lou'  is short for Louise. I'm going to assume you are not sharing your life with a hairy-arsed trucker from Detroit called 'Lou' who has done time for armed robbery.

As already mentioned many dealer cars are sourced at auction, or are privately owned P/X. My personal view is that people pay too much at auction and from dealers.

I would go the 'well looked after' private sale route. 

[STEMO]

This one, from a private seller, looks ok. Three MOT failures in the past, but for stupid things like wipers and bulbs
.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901284381212?atmobcid=soc3

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

This one, from a private seller, looks ok. Three MOT failures in the past, but for stupid things like wipers and bulbs
.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901284381212?atmobcid=soc3

Suitable for a girlie (assuming Lou is a girlie) but expensive for a twelve year old car.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The mighty Signum is twelve years old and worth three parts of sweet f*uck all.

.......and costs almost £600 a year to tax. It's about time the cull of wealthy pensioners commenced.

Let us start with STMO.

[aaronjb]

Thanks you two - yep, Lou is short for Louise  No hairy truckers here.. and you're right, private purchase is probably the route to best value for money (although when talking about MINIs, as you've noted, VFM is an alien concept!).

This one, from a private seller, looks ok. Three MOT failures in the past, but for stupid things like wipers and bulbs
.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201901284381212?atmobcid=soc3

I rather like that one.. I should get her to check insurance - despite her age (never ask a womans age, but it's only slightly less than mine) she didn't learn to drive until very recently.. that said, age appears to make everything cost about the same for her to insure*

Re choice of car - she specifically wants "small" (hence the Smart, she just doesn't get on with the automated manual single clutch gearbox .. I can drive around it's oddities but then I've been driving 22 years) and loves the MINI. She also likes the Citroen DS3 and, though I am forced to object on the grounds that it's "french shite", they actually drive quite nicely and are better VFM than the MINI.

Either way, small automatics are very hard to find these days - most of them are gearboxes like the Smart :/

We nearly went to look at an Astra GTC, too, but she decided it was too big for her.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The BINI tends to be pretty gender specific....... Girls and gays just about sums it up.

[aaronjb]

The BINI tends to be pretty gender specific....... Girls and gays just about sums it up.

I quite like them, too.

Oh, crap.

[joshwyatt]

In my experience, a Mini is best avoided at all costs, out of a warranty and it’ll hurt. I never buy one, even if it’s seemingly cheap and would be ‘easy’ to make money on.

BCA - great vast offering of stock, but as Tigger says, buyers premiums are a lot! You need to have a BCA Gold card with you for it to be worth going. Look at some large independent auctions too!

[Bigron]

Just fpr the hell of it - no buying intentions - I went to a car auction near Chelmsford. I simply could not see who was bidding: no nods, no winks or any gestures from anyone, seemingly, yet the price went up and up until finally someone bought the car. Frrightened the carp out of me!

Ron.

[dave the builder]

I used to work for a very big car lease company .
end of lease cars got inspected,any dents,damage,missing wheel trims ,gaps in service history got billed to the leaser ,
any car that was rough,had mechanical issues,missing history ,bad damage etc got sent to the pound ,fuel removed,tyres with good tread put on retail cars,then sent to auction.
any cars that where in good nick got picked for retail,prepared, minor dents etc (PDR) done,full valet, stone chips touched up dealer number plates and stickers etc etc
if a retail car did not sell in 6 weeks ,then it got sent to auction  as old stock.
so a valeted car with flat battery may be just that, a retail car that went old stock because the sales team never showed it anyone because they where lazy and had plenty of other stock without finding a jump starter pack.
part exchanges just got sent to auction (or purchased by savvy staff  if any good)

auctions are ok,IF you know what to look for ,but you can still end up with egg on your face,
 private sales let you test drive ,check everything etc (mostly) but you can still get caught out (people sell cars for a reason)
retail sales, you tend to have some come back ,IF your purchase turns out to be yellow and citrus 

[aaronjb]

In my experience, a Mini is best avoided at all costs, out of a warranty and it’ll hurt. I never buy one, even if it’s seemingly cheap and would be ‘easy’ to make money on.

BCA - great vast offering of stock, but as Tigger says, buyers premiums are a lot! You need to have a BCA Gold card with you for it to be worth going. Look at some large independent auctions too!

Hmm, probably not worth me going to an auction then on that basis - although I did ponder asking your good self if you'd find us a car. That said, given what you just said about Minis..

I had heard of reliability problems - I've worked with a couple of folks who've owned them for extended periods; one had a fuel pump fail (twice!), the other has had no problems at all that weren't easily solved with a little ingenuity (there's half a Bic biro in his headlight washers, for example ). But by reputation they don't have the greatest reliability record..

retail sales, you tend to have some come back ,IF your purchase turns out to be yellow and citrus 

Yeah - that's one advantage of going to a dealer.. at least one that looks half way reputable (unlike the last one I went to!). Thanks for the rest of the info, too As I have told Lou a couple of times - the reality is that most of the "back street" dealers are probably getting their stock at the auctions anyway..

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Would a Signum prove too big for Louise?

 Like a designer label it has the status and 'street cred'............I'd be willing to let you have it for less than £4750.

[STEMO]

Would a Signum prove too big for Louise?

 Like a designer label it has the status and 'street cred'............I'd be willing to let you have it for £47.50.

Too much, mate.

[Kevin Wood]

Would a Signum prove too big for Louise?

 Like a designer label it has the status and 'street cred'............I'd be willing to let you have it for £47.50.

Too much, mate.

Oh, I don't know. Does it include a full tank of fuel? And a year's tax? Oh, and some beer in that cooler thing between the rear seats?

EDIT: Duh! beer in a cooler? Whatever next?

[henryd]

In my experience, a Mini is best avoided at all costs, out of a warranty and it’ll hurt. I never buy one, even if it’s seemingly cheap and would be ‘easy’ to make money on.

BCA - great vast offering of stock, but as Tigger says, buyers premiums are a lot! You need to have a BCA Gold card with you for it to be worth going. Look at some large independent auctions too!

I would whole heartedly agree with Josh on this

[STEMO]

Would a Signum prove too big for Louise?

 Like a designer label it has the status and 'street cred'............I'd be willing to let you have it for £47.50.

Too much, mate.

Oh, I don't know. Does it include a full tank of fuel? And a year's tax? Oh, and some beer in that cooler thing between the rear seats?

EDIT: Duh! beer in a cooler? Whatever next?

You can't pass on the tax.(Which is a shame, because it's worth more than the car). Keep up at the back. 

[Kevin Wood]

Would a Signum prove too big for Louise?

 Like a designer label it has the status and 'street cred'............I'd be willing to let you have it for £47.50.

Too much, mate.

Oh, I don't know. Does it include a full tank of fuel? And a year's tax? Oh, and some beer in that cooler thing between the rear seats?

EDIT: Duh! beer in a cooler? Whatever next?

You can't pass on the tax.(Which is a shame, because it's worth more than the car). Keep up at the back. 

Having a nice reliable Omega, I haven't had to purchase a car for a very long time, so how would I know?

It is indeed worth more than the car, however.

[2boxerdogs]

Bought several in the past from auctions, never had a bad one always went for 1 owner with service history dealers will stick rigidly to their budget I found , I never worried about the age of the vehicle , if I liked it and it met my standard I bought it.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Di I detect Signum envy?

[Doctor Gollum]

SIL has a main dealer part ex Mini Cooper D Coupe which she loves.

Touch wood, no significant issues beyond normal 4 year old car bits... Service/discs and pads and the like

It is possible that she has the only good one 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Just fpr the hell of it - no buying intentions - I went to a car auction near Chelmsford. I simply could not see who was bidding: no nods, no winks or any gestures from anyone, seemingly, yet the price went up and up until finally someone bought the car. Frrightened the carp out of me!

Ron.

I've often wondered about the internet bids and whether they are genuine.... 

[Enceladus]

At the big car auctions you're better off going for a three year old ex-lease. With older cars you need to set a limit that factors in the cost of unknowns. And stick to the limit, no matter what happens.

I bought an Omega at the Chelmsford auction. Had to replace the front suspension, coil pack and cam cover seals etc over a period of time so cost a bit. But it lasted me 14 years. But now the auction premiums are ridiculous.

I suggest you try Gumtree. A higher proportion of the seller seem to be more realistic as to the actual value and condition of what they are selling than on Autotrader and the like. Last Omega I bought was found on Gumtree.

[shyboy]

Just fpr the hell of it - no buying intentions - I went to a car auction near Chelmsford. I simply could not see who was bidding: no nods, no winks or any gestures from anyone, seemingly, yet the price went up and up until finally someone bought the car. Frrightened the carp out of me!

Ron.

I saw a TV programme years ago where they highlighted the "off the wall" bid as a common and accepted practice at car auctions. If you don't know what you're doing steer clear.!

[Keith ABS]

 Is it worth considering an Adam?

[Nick W]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

It's a tarted up Corsa so if any extra cost is worth to you, then yes.

[zirk]

Personally if your looking at spending 3 to 5K on a Car then my advice would be to stay away from an Auction unless you really are up to speed with how it all works and exactly whats going on and being Sold with every Drive Through.

[biggriffin]

The BINI tends to be pretty gender specific....... Girls and gays just about sums it up.

Don't start another homophobic rant, that pink singer will rant on Twitter,...

[Doctor Gollum]

The BINI tends to be pretty gender specific....... Girls and gays just about sums it up.

Don't start another homophobic rant, that pink singer will rant on Twitter,...

He can rant away... I still won't buy his albums

[aaronjb]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

I absolutely would - but there's only one automatic one for sale currently, that I can find.. and I think it (and the Corsa) are a single clutch automated manual, rather than a traditional (torque converter) automatic?

[biggriffin]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

People just can't stop the homophobic reference can they,  Adam might not like a try.

[78bex]

my SIL  has had 3 mini`s & they`re not the most reliable of cars
Her last car suffered with a limp mode issue, so the main dealer replaced the cam sensor
All was ok for a while & then back to limp mode & a new crank sensor fitted
Her first mini was a manual & the syncho between 2 & 3 was toast on a 60k mile car & the gear box had a weird whine to it.
Her latest mini is a coupe & cross fiingers seems a better car, but only has 2 seats & the wing on the boot deploys at speeds above 60 
But why did BMW use a peugeot engine for the mini, why did they think that was a good idea 

[ronnyd]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

I absolutely would - but there's only one automatic one for sale currently, that I can find.. and I think it (and the Corsa) are a single clutch automated manual, rather than a traditional (torque converter) automatic?

Can you actually buy a modern car with a slush box now?  Not good for all this fuel saving, tree hugging carp.

[Doctor Gollum]

You can but it won't be a city go-kart 

[Andy B]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

I absolutely would - but there's only one automatic one for sale currently, that I can find.. and I think it (and the Corsa) are a single clutch automated manual, rather than a traditional (torque converter) automatic?

Can you actually buy a modern car with a slush box now?  Not good for all this fuel saving, tree hugging carp.

Aren't Ford going back to slush box auto instead of their Powershit automated manual 

[Phil]

Is it worth considering an Adam?

I absolutely would - but there's only one automatic one for sale currently, that I can find.. and I think it (and the Corsa) are a single clutch automated manual, rather than a traditional (torque converter) automatic?

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

[aaronjb]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

[Kevin Wood]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

I didn't think most of them had enough power to break the rubber band?

[henryd]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

I've never seen a Micra CVT break,they probably do like most other things but its not common

[Marks DTM Calib]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

The CVTs are utter crap, bloody horrible to drive and with the low power lumps pressing the accelerator just makes the noise get louder.

We had one in Denmark, you press the sport button and all that happens is the radio becomes harder to hear!

[Nick W]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

The CVTs are utter crap, bloody horrible to drive and with the low power lumps pressing the accelerator just makes the noise get louder.

We had one in Denmark, you press the sport button and all that happens is the radio becomes harder to hear!

Yeah, that.


CVTs are horrible to drive, and the automated manuals aren't much better when they're actually working.


If you want a laugh, try an automated Sprinter: the first one I tried was when I collected it from the customer for some work. The workshop manager looked surprised when I asked if it was in for a  gearbox, as it felt like the engine was connected to the wheels with a lot of rubber joints. After he'd driven it around the block, he informed that they're all like that. At least I now know what the designer of the Smart gearbox did next

[Andy H]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

I didn't think most of them had enough power to break the rubber band?

SWMBO has had two 1.3 CVT Micras. About the size of a classic mini but with more power (75bhp)
Everyone either fails to see them and drives into them or assumes that they are slow and therefore pulls out in front of them.
The first one was written off when a Lithuanian artic side swiped her on the M25 (it was still drivable but the wheel nuts on the tractor unit left some interesting patterns in the bodywork as it span round in front of the cab), the second was tail ended by a tit in an Audi while she was waiting at a roundabout

[Andy H]

pretty much the only small car actually designed to work with an auto box in recent years is the Nissan Micra  all the rest are as you say automated manuals 

I thought the Micra (and all the other Nissan automatics) were actually CVT gearboxes.. that said, her instructor's car was a CVT too (Toyota Yaris hybrid) so she was used to driving those; I'm just leery of them in case the rubber bands brake

The CVTs are utter crap, bloody horrible to drive and with the low power lumps pressing the accelerator just makes the noise get louder.

We had one in Denmark, you press the sport button and all that happens is the radio becomes harder to hear!

I think it is more like a steel armadillo shell - lots of wedge shaped links on a chain.
Once moving it feels like driving something with an electric motor - what they don't like is creeping in slow moving traffic - that does sound and feel like it is doing something nasty to the armadillo shell

[Shackeng]

Hmmm, interesting views on CVT's, We've now had 2 Jazz's for atotal of 14 years. Lovely little car to drive, superbly designed, the first had paddles or a button on the wheel to select gears or just use D. This one has a sport mode and really shifts when asked. Never had anything other than services done.

[STEMO]

A sport button on a Honda Jazz? What next, rocket motors on Zimmer frames? 

[Shackeng]

A sport button on a Honda Jazz? What next, rocket motors on Zimmer frames? 

Mine has, hasn't yours steve?

[Doctor Gollum]

A sport button on a Honda Jazz? What next, rocket motors on Zimmer frames? 

Mine has, hasn't yours steve?

He has to plug his into the mains

[STEMO]

A sport button on a Honda Jazz? What next, rocket motors on Zimmer frames? 

Mine has, hasn't yours steve?

No. Just my little legs going thirteen to the dozen 

[terry paget]

Just fpr the hell of it - no buying intentions - I went to a car auction near Chelmsford. I simply could not see who was bidding: no nods, no winks or any gestures from anyone, seemingly, yet the price went up and up until finally someone bought the car. Frrightened the carp out of me!

Ron.

I saw a TV programme years ago where they highlighted the "off the wall" bid as a common and accepted practice at car auctions. If you don't know what you're doing steer clear.!

I used to buy ex-police Senators at West Oxfordshire Motor Auctions, Witney; usually three years old, high mileage but well maintained, and lacking radios or other luxuries like aircon or electric windows, they cost between £2000 and £3000 each. There was a police car auction every other Thursday, probably still is. The motor bikes went for high prices, as did some police staff cars. The vans were auctioned first and outside, being too tall to drive through the auction building. All sale items were parked outside, locked, on auction day. Auction began at 6pm. Each sale car was driven into the auction building in catalogue order, and was auctioned. Some bidders would bring cash with them, free 24 hour insurance was available (Eagle Star?), and traders would turn up with spare drivers to take home their purchases. I bought an ex-police Omega 3.2 there, I've had it 12 years and still have it. It's now in Enfield, but it's rusty and I doubt it will pass MOT in July.

[omegod]

Or you could go mad and buy something damaged to repair from Copart like I did recently, story to follow at some point when it is finished