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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

You would imagine their  priority is to sell cars. This is about 20% true.

In reality their main purpose is to sell financial products with which to buy a car regardless of whether the customer/victim wants, needs, or asks for such

As soon as the customer tells the salesman he does not require any form of finance or additional glass/leather/paintwork/bodywork/alloy wheel protection then that should be enough......but no.

They then explain they have to tell you about all financial products BY LAW. Utter crap. What law exactly? When did parliament implement such a law?

Car dealers really don't help themselves.

Start selling cars.....and stop selling finance you little shits.

[Andy B]

Mercedes had me sign all sorts to confirm I didn't  want alloy wheel protection cover etc etc ..... I wasn't really prepare for it at the time. In hindsight I should've told them where to poke their forms & I'll be ready if there's a next time.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Commissions are much higher for selling finance than for selling the car. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Mercedes had me sign all sorts to confirm I didn't  want alloy wheel protection cover etc etc ..... I wasn't really prepare for it at the time. In hindsight I should've told them where to poke their forms & I'll be ready if there's a next time.

When they tell me it's 'the law'.......I ask what law, and when did parliament vote on this law?

They then change tack and say it's 'policy'........which means if they don't try to make customers pay for financial products they don't want their manager will kick their arse because head office will kick his arse if he doesn't.

Absolutely SFA to do with 'law'

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Commissions are much higher for selling finance than for selling the car. 

Indeed they are.

[STEMO]

I always come away with lots of worthless pieces of paper when I buy a car, Finance, warranty, supagard, etc. One thing I always do is make sure I’ve got their offer on my trade-in before I even look at one of their cars.

[Varche]

We have come across two Spanish practices. First is to advertise a price only to find that is the price for  buying using their finance. Cash price is generally around 10%more. Second is to advertise a price thatdoesnt include vat.some business users can claim vat on a secondhandcar.  All detail tucked away in small print.

[Doctor Gollum]

New car dealers only sell cars to sell finance and warranty products on the New cars. The second profit stream comes from the workshop.

Second hand dealers make their profit from mark up and, surprise surprise, finance and warranty products... 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

We have come across two Spanish practices. First is to advertise a price only to find that is the price for  buying using their finance. Cash price is generally around 10%more. Second is to advertise a price thatdoesnt include vat.some business users can claim vat on a secondhandcar.  All detail tucked away in small print.

Hanging is too good for them.

[2boxerdogs]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

[STEMO]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

Yep. The days of cash being king are long gone at the main dealer. Sadly.

[STEMO]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

Yep. The days of cash being king are long gone at the main dealer. Sadly.

You can still get a reasonable deal. You just have to be prepared to listen to about half an hour of shite before they get the message.

[Andy B]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms,  .....

Which fine you're looking at an also ran model of car. And that's exactly what we did when I went with my sister in law to buy her Astra H a few years ago, we'd agreed a price, shook on it, & after we'd played the game of him going upstairs to get approval from his manager, he then realised that he'd apparently diddled himself out of £100 for the car she was going to part ex. We walked ...... 20 mins later he phoned us back 

[STEMO]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms,  .....

Which fine you're looking at an also ran model of car. And that's exactly what we did when I went with my sister in law to buy her Astra H a few years ago, we'd agreed a price, shook on it, & after we'd played the game of him going upstairs to get approval from his manager, he then realised that he'd apparently diddled himself out of £100 for the car she was going to part ex. We walked ...... 20 mins later he phoned us back 

Yes, be prepared to tell them to shove it.

[STEMO]

When I go into the car people, there is always a whole family at one table or other. The dad is invariably on a twenty year old walking stick with holes in his stinking tee shirt. Son and girlfriend have brought him along ‘cause he knows about cars’.
Said son and girlfriend are all smiles because the salesman has told the that they can afford the 7 year old corsa, price up extortionately at £6999 and, after paying £70 a week for five years, it will belong to them. They feel so lucky that he has done them a big favour.

[2boxerdogs]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

Yep. The days of cash being king are long gone at the main dealer. Sadly.

. 



I can honestly say that I have always got a discount for cash , it's so easy to get taken in by the nonsense they spout tell them you've heard all that 'dangle berries' about super wax and any other rubbish they are trying to sell , got £775 off the Jeep last August .

[BazaJT]

There is very little profit in a new car for the main dealer.The profit comes from hitting manufacturer sales target[this can vary month by month as there are both good and bad selling months]as the dealership then gets a huge bonus payment from said manufacturer-it's why at times dealers pre-register cars as these then show as sold units.Commissions on finance/paint protection/gap insurance etc all then add to the pot.Used cars should show a better profit than new based on mark-up,with again commissions on the "extras" they can sell.

[STEMO]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

Yep. The days of cash being king are long gone at the main dealer. Sadly.

. 



I can honestly say that I have always got a discount for cash , it's so easy to get taken in by the nonsense they spout tell them you've heard all that 'dangle berries' about super wax and any other rubbish they are trying to sell , got £775 off the Jeep last August .

That £775, and a bit more, was added at the beginning to make you think you got a good deal. 

[2boxerdogs]

Best thing when they start all that nonsense is just go to walk out of the showrooms, that has always done the trick for me  and the words " what discount for cash".

I doubt you’ll get any discount for cash, they’d rather you didn’t buy it so that another victim customer will...using finance.

Yep. The days of cash being king are long gone at the main dealer. Sadly.

. 



I can honestly say that I have always got a discount for cash , it's so easy to get taken in by the nonsense they spout tell them you've heard all that 'dangle berries' about super wax and any other rubbish they are trying to sell , got £775 off the Jeep last August .

That £775, and a bit more, was added at the beginning to make you think you got a good deal. 

. 



That's called business Stemo we all realise that they are there to make a profit , but there is no way on this earth I would pay the sticker price on any car that's the fun part for me .

[STEMO]

There is very little profit in a new car for the main dealer.The profit comes from hitting manufacturer sales target[this can vary month by month as there are both good and bad selling months]as the dealership then gets a huge bonus payment from said manufacturer-it's why at times dealers pre-register cars as these then show as sold units.Commissions on finance/paint protection/gap insurance etc all then add to the pot.Used cars should show a better profit than new based on mark-up,with again commissions on the "extras" they can sell.

That is very true. We got a captur for wifey with five grand off because the dealer had registered it the month before. It only had 7 miles on it.

But........how does the dealer/supplier make any profit from that sale?

[Doctor Gollum]

There is very little profit in a new car for the main dealer.The profit comes from hitting manufacturer sales target[this can vary month by month as there are both good and bad selling months]as the dealership then gets a huge bonus payment from said manufacturer-it's why at times dealers pre-register cars as these then show as sold units.Commissions on finance/paint protection/gap insurance etc all then add to the pot.Used cars should show a better profit than new based on mark-up,with again commissions on the "extras" they can sell.

That is very true. We got a captur for wifey with five grand off because the dealer had registered it the month before. It only had 7 miles on it.

But........how does the dealer/supplier make any profit from that sale?

Of the twenty cars they pre registered that week, eighteen were probably financed

[STEMO]

There is very little profit in a new car for the main dealer.The profit comes from hitting manufacturer sales target[this can vary month by month as there are both good and bad selling months]as the dealership then gets a huge bonus payment from said manufacturer-it's why at times dealers pre-register cars as these then show as sold units.Commissions on finance/paint protection/gap insurance etc all then add to the pot.Used cars should show a better profit than new based on mark-up,with again commissions on the "extras" they can sell.

That is very true. We got a captur for wifey with five grand off because the dealer had registered it the month before. It only had 7 miles on it.

But........how does the dealer/supplier make any profit from that sale?

Of the twenty cars they pre registered that week, eighteen were probably financed

Seems a bit hit and miss.

[BazaJT]

Doesn't make a profit from that particular sale as such.The profit has come from manufacturer bonus for hitting new car sales target for the month it was registered.Say the manufacturer has set the dealership a target of 20 new car sales for the month and they've sold 18 of those to actual buyers and the month end is close then the dealer will pre-register 2[which then count as sales] to hit the magic number,then the dealership earns the bonus which can be tens of thousands of pounds.If you used a trade in which can then be retailed they'll then make profit[or should]on the mark-up on that also.Pre-registered cars can sit on the forecourt for however long it takes to retail them as used cars,technically the buyer of a pre-reg is the second owner as the dealer is the original "buyer"

[Doctor Gollum]

There is very little profit in a new car for the main dealer.The profit comes from hitting manufacturer sales target[this can vary month by month as there are both good and bad selling months]as the dealership then gets a huge bonus payment from said manufacturer-it's why at times dealers pre-register cars as these then show as sold units.Commissions on finance/paint protection/gap insurance etc all then add to the pot.Used cars should show a better profit than new based on mark-up,with again commissions on the "extras" they can sell.

That is very true. We got a captur for wifey with five grand off because the dealer had registered it the month before. It only had 7 miles on it.

But........how does the dealer/supplier make any profit from that sale?

Of the twenty cars they pre registered that week, eighteen were probably financed

Seems a bit hit and miss.

Not really. There are infinitely more stupid people than you might want to believe...

[STEMO]

Doesn't make a profit from that particular sale as such.The profit has come from manufacturer bonus for hitting new car sales target for the month it was registered.Say the manufacturer has set the dealership a target of 20 new car sales for the month and they've sold 18 of those to actual buyers and the month end is close then the dealer will pre-register 2[which then count as sales] to hit the magic number,then the dealership earns the bonus which can be tens of thousands of pounds.If you used a trade in which can then be retailed they'll then make profit[or should]on the mark-up on that also.Pre-registered cars can sit on the forecourt for however long it takes to retail them as used cars,technically the buyer of a pre-reg is the second owner as the dealer is the original "buyer"

I see. Still a cracking deal for the buyer, though. Retail on wifey’s captur was £17,995, we got it for £12,500, plus we got £3,000 for her megane which, tbh, I would have taken £2,500 for.
Strangely, when I put it into WBAC, they only offered £11,000, so I thought they must know it’s a pre-reg because it’s only got a few miles on it but two previous owners. But, after I waited for about 18 months, they were still offering around £10,000. Not bad, only losing £2,500 in 18 months.

[Doctor Gollum]

Doesn't make a profit from that particular sale as such.The profit has come from manufacturer bonus for hitting new car sales target for the month it was registered.Say the manufacturer has set the dealership a target of 20 new car sales for the month and they've sold 18 of those to actual buyers and the month end is close then the dealer will pre-register 2[which then count as sales] to hit the magic number,then the dealership earns the bonus which can be tens of thousands of pounds.If you used a trade in which can then be retailed they'll then make profit[or should]on the mark-up on that also.Pre-registered cars can sit on the forecourt for however long it takes to retail them as used cars,technically the buyer of a pre-reg is the second owner as the dealer is the original "buyer"

Our local Vauxhall dealer will actively buy cars from the factory by the fifty and sell them pre-registered at cost plus £100.

The factory is kept employed, and the dealership pockets £5,000 each time plus their Franchise sales target bonus which they're pretty much guaranteed to hit, after all, they've just bought and 'sold' 50 cars.

Of the fifty, 90-95% will be financed and almost all will be dealer serviced for the (financed extended) warranty period, ensuring that the dealership running costs are covered. Sales staff get their meager wages bolstered by commission on everything from that they can add to the base price of the car.

If you take my first Insignia as an example, £12.995 on the road for a 10 mile old new car. The only profit was on the finance and the £100 stocking fee.

[BazaJT]

I agree a pre-reg car can be a very good choice because they're classed as a used car[having been registered to the dealer as the first owner]where in reality as you know with yours you've got a brand new car with "delivery"mileage.

[STEMO]

I agree a pre-reg car can be a very good choice because they're classed as a used car[having been registered to the dealer as the first owner]where in reality as you know with yours you've got a brand new car with "delivery"mileage.

It’s still like new, had it two years now and she’s only put 14,000 miles on it.
It’s still going when the 4 year warranty is up, though. That’s when Renaults start acting up.

[Andy B]

......
It’s still like new, had it two years now and she’s only put 14,000 miles on it.
......

SWMBO has had her C3 4 years & only put 12k on it ...... still, it's French so we don't want to push it too hard 

[STEMO]

......
It’s still like new, had it two years now and she’s only put 14,000 miles on it.
......

SWMBO has had her C3 4 years & only put 12k on it ...... still, it's French so we don't want to push it too hard 

Quite a few on the forums complaining about clutch judder and electrical gremlins after 4 years. Ours seems fine.......for now.

[Andy B]

......
It’s still like new, had it two years now and she’s only put 14,000 miles on it.
......

SWMBO has had her C3 4 years & only put 12k on it ...... still, it's French so we don't want to push it too hard 

Quite a few on the forums complaining about clutch judder and electrical gremlins after 4 years. Ours seems fine.......for now.

Hers is an auto that stalls when ambient temps are low.  Citroen know about it (as they did every other fault it's had) but I'm not prepared to fork out the £600 odd that Citroen want to replace a couple of solenoids.

[tunnie]

I bought the Zaf for cash + the VW, no finance. They rang me every 2/3 days after I bought it, trying to flog me service plans and all sorts. 

Will say though, using Zaf day to day, is making me re-consider an Astra or Insignia as potential replacement for the Omega. The CDTi engine in the Zaf while not the smoothest would be quite punchy in a lighter Astra.

Something like Astra GTC with 2.0 CDTi engine, which is 250kg lighter than Zaf could go quite well. Also I was thinking of going 50% cash 50% loan on 2013-ish Jag XF-S, but I could buy a 2014 Astra GTC for cash, with low miles and then save what I would be paying on a loan for the Jag. In 3 years time, I could basically buy another Astra again for cash.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The Jag dealer was hell bent on selling my insurances such as Gap insurance, Alloy wheel and Tyre insurance, Body work Insurance and paint protection, the total adder was some £1300!

I got them to chuck the paint protection in (as it costs them bugger all), declined the £500 tyre and wheel insurance as an alloy refurb is £60 and a good tyre £120.

Gap insurance is much cheaper online.

They then kept calling up and pretty much begging me to reconsider the insurance so the body work protection I considered (having discussed it would need discounting) and requested a copy of the policy document (eventually received, as they clearly did not actually know what a policy document was), then provided the following feedback:

Dear xxxx

Thanks again.

I have read through the details of the Policy and I will not be taking it out, based on (but not limited to), the following:

The policy is constructed such that the holder is steered towards Smart repair techniques and any claim where an authorised body shop is utilised, is limited to a maximum of £150 Inc. VAT. This effectively adds risk when utilising the considerably superior facilities available at an authorised repairer, as I don’t foresee they would be able to complete any rectification inside this budget.

Recognising that the XF is largely of aluminium construction and, fully understanding some of the challenges associated with working on these materials, the policy covers nothing where specific alloy repair techniques are required (based on the limitation to the depth of the damage and the fact that heat based aluminium shrinkage dent repair techniques cannot be covered by a smart repair process).

In addition, the exclusions are such that stone chips and any trim/glass/roof damage plus any dents within 30mm of the panel edge are not covered as part of the policy, therefore limiting further the opportunity to make a claim.

As an aside, I note a number of contradictions between the policy and highlight document (such as referring to a 15cm maximum scratch length in one and 30cm in the other) which it may be worth noting for future reference.

Note that the above is for feedback to yourself, as way of explanation as to how I have made my personal decision.

Please accept my thanks in taking your time to explain the options, review the price, and in providing the requested documents to allow me to make my assessment.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

When I bought my first XFR I wanted to pay cash.....no finance required.

The salesman then informed me I could buy the car on 0% interest for 18 months. Seemed like a good idea so I asked him for clarification in an email.

When the email arrived the little turd had added £4000 of 'extras' I had not asked for. Everything from alloy wheel cover to leather care.

I told him to remove them. He did so, also removing the 0% finance deal at the same time. 

[STEMO]

The Jag dealer was hell bent on selling my insurances such as Gap insurance, Alloy wheel and Tyre insurance, Body work Insurance and paint protection, the total adder was some £1300!

I got them to chuck the paint protection in (as it costs them bugger all), declined the £500 tyre and wheel insurance as an alloy refurb is £60 and a good tyre £120.

Gap insurance is much cheaper online.

They then kept calling up and pretty much begging me to reconsider the insurance so the body work protection I considered (having discussed it would need discounting) and requested a copy of the policy document (eventually received, as they clearly did not actually know what a policy document was), then provided the following feedback:

Dear xxxx

Thanks again.

I have read through the details of the Policy and I will not be taking it out, based on (but not limited to), the following:

The policy is constructed such that the holder is steered towards Smart repair techniques and any claim where an authorised body shop is utilised, is limited to a maximum of £150 Inc. VAT. This effectively adds risk when utilising the considerably superior facilities available at an authorised repairer, as I don’t foresee they would be able to complete any rectification inside this budget.

Recognising that the XF is largely of aluminium construction and, fully understanding some of the challenges associated with working on these materials, the policy covers nothing where specific alloy repair techniques are required (based on the limitation to the depth of the damage and the fact that heat based aluminium shrinkage dent repair techniques cannot be covered by a smart repair process).

In addition, the exclusions are such that stone chips and any trim/glass/roof damage plus any dents within 30mm of the panel edge are not covered as part of the policy, therefore limiting further the opportunity to make a claim.

As an aside, I note a number of contradictions between the policy and highlight document (such as referring to a 15cm maximum scratch length in one and 30cm in the other) which it may be worth noting for future reference.

Note that the above is for feedback to yourself, as way of explanation as to how I have made my personal decision.

Please accept my thanks in taking your time to explain the options, review the price, and in providing the requested documents to allow me to make my assessment.

That’s very well put, Mark. A bolliking that doesn’t really sound like one. 
If only people would realise that a firm rejection,with reasons why, without resorting to nastiness, indignation or piss taking, gets the point across perfectly without causing too much upset.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The Jag dealer was hell bent on selling my insurances such as Gap insurance, Alloy wheel and Tyre insurance, Body work Insurance and paint protection, the total adder was some £1300!

I got them to chuck the paint protection in (as it costs them bugger all), declined the £500 tyre and wheel insurance as an alloy refurb is £60 and a good tyre £120.

Gap insurance is much cheaper online.

They then kept calling up and pretty much begging me to reconsider the insurance so the body work protection I considered (having discussed it would need discounting) and requested a copy of the policy document (eventually received, as they clearly did not actually know what a policy document was), then provided the following feedback:

Dear xxxx

Thanks again.

I have read through the details of the Policy and I will not be taking it out, based on (but not limited to), the following:

The policy is constructed such that the holder is steered towards Smart repair techniques and any claim where an authorised body shop is utilised, is limited to a maximum of £150 Inc. VAT. This effectively adds risk when utilising the considerably superior facilities available at an authorised repairer, as I don’t foresee they would be able to complete any rectification inside this budget.

Recognising that the XF is largely of aluminium construction and, fully understanding some of the challenges associated with working on these materials, the policy covers nothing where specific alloy repair techniques are required (based on the limitation to the depth of the damage and the fact that heat based aluminium shrinkage dent repair techniques cannot be covered by a smart repair process).

In addition, the exclusions are such that stone chips and any trim/glass/roof damage plus any dents within 30mm of the panel edge are not covered as part of the policy, therefore limiting further the opportunity to make a claim.

As an aside, I note a number of contradictions between the policy and highlight document (such as referring to a 15cm maximum scratch length in one and 30cm in the other) which it may be worth noting for future reference.

Note that the above is for feedback to yourself, as way of explanation as to how I have made my personal decision.

Please accept my thanks in taking your time to explain the options, review the price, and in providing the requested documents to allow me to make my assessment.

That’s very well put, Mark. A bolliking that doesn’t really sound like one. 
If only people would realise that a firm rejection,with reasons why, without resorting to nastiness, indignation or piss taking, gets the point across perfectly without causing too much upset.

Are you feeling unwell?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I bought the Zaf for cash + the VW, no finance. They rang me every 2/3 days after I bought it, trying to flog me service plans and all sorts. 

Will say though, using Zaf day to day, is making me re-consider an Astra or Insignia as potential replacement for the Omega. The CDTi engine in the Zaf while not the smoothest would be quite punchy in a lighter Astra.

Something like Astra GTC with 2.0 CDTi engine, which is 250kg lighter than Zaf could go quite well. Also I was thinking of going 50% cash 50% loan on 2013-ish Jag XF-S, but I could buy a 2014 Astra GTC for cash, with low miles and then save what I would be paying on a loan for the Jag. In 3 years time, I could basically buy another Astra again for cash.

There could be an Astra derv for sale in Barnsley quite soon.

Be aware that the smell of sweaty whippet can linger for some time though. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

That’s very well put, Mark. A bolliking that doesn’t really sound like one. 
If only people would realise that a firm rejection,with reasons why, without resorting to nastiness, indignation or piss taking, gets the point across perfectly without causing too much upset.

I was horrified at the delta between what the salesman said was covered and what was really covered.

Throw in a load of bull about 'specialist repair techniques' etc and you can see why people fall for it.

Then you read the details and find that most bodywork damages would not be covered.....there all gits 

[Rods2]

Mercedes had me sign all sorts to confirm I didn't  want alloy wheel protection cover etc etc ..... I wasn't really prepare for it at the time. In hindsight I should've told them where to poke their forms & I'll be ready if there's a next time.

When they tell me it's 'the law'.......I ask what law, and when did parliament vote on this law?

They then change tack and say it's 'policy'........which means if they don't try to make customers pay for financial products they don't want their manager will kick their arse because head office will kick his arse if he doesn't.

Absolutely SFA to do with 'law'

As soon as salesperson starts lying, it never ends well for them, when I call them out and finish the conversation. Nothing winds me up so much and so quickly as lying sales people.

[2boxerdogs]

Just a firm no always worked for me, hate having pointless conversations with salespeople.