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[JDX]

I am in the market for a van. It is the first I will have ever purchased & therefore my experience is zero!
Leaving shortly to go & look at a Mercedes Sprinter 314 & 313.
I'm not buying today but need a hands on experience!
I need as big an interior space as possible & good fuel economy.
I have shortlisted it down to 3: Mercedes Sprinter XLWB High roof; Ford Transit same size; Iveco which is bigger still.
Anyone got a view on these?: good, bad, avoid completely, tips etc etc

I will be online again this salvo! 

[Doctor Gollum]

Check your license first. Post 97 and you're restricted to 3.5t. Both Mercedes and Iveco are available as upto around 6 tons. Chassis plate and V5 should confirm actual gvw (gross vehicle weight). Over 3.5t and you need an Operators license if you are even vaguely thinking about using it for ANY income.

The largest Sprinters and Dailys run from 3.5t up but don't look any different at a glance. Only one recent Transit exceeds 3.5t, and that's the XLWB High Roof twin rear wheel, but these are rocking horse shit rare.

If it has a tow bar fitted then expect to see a tachograph fitted. Again check your license, and expect to use it if fitted, even more so if operating over 3.5t gtw (gross train weight).

[johnnydog]

Having bought several vans for different people, the size is down to your intended use for it. LWB for the extra length, high roof if you want to stand up straight in it, or carry tall furniture etc.
My son has a LWB Renault Trafic (same as the Vivaro, or Primastar just different badging) which he uses for his carpet fitting work - this was the only van in that size range that could accommodate a 4m roll of carpet, without going to the LWB Crafter / Sprinter size, albeit the 'bolt in' bulkhead panel and front passenger seat had to be removed with a gizmo to make the van think the seatbelt warning was still wired in! Nothing else had the length capacity.
My daughter has a LWB high roof VW Crafter, which is a great van; exceptional length and height - I am always borrowing it! Nice to drive, although can be a little gutless with a full load - the identically bodied Mercedes Sprinter has a more powerful engine, but tends to command more money.
Another friend has another VW LWB Crafter high roof for his work, and likes it.
There are some good purchases to had at auction in van sales, if you are prepared to hunt out the good from the bad. Don't forget the majority of sales at both auctions and dealers have VAT added on to the sale / displayed sale price, which on a seemingly good deal, results in it looking costly.
I have found ex Enterprise Rental vans very well maintained, and generally in good order overall, unlike builders vans, or maintenance vans which seem to be worked hard for their money.
Most vans tend to suffer on the drivers seat if the van has been used for deliveries - the continuous in and out of the driver knackers the sides of the seat base and upright. If the drivers seat is ok in any van you look at, then it's a reasonable indication that it has been used on longer runs rather than stop start deliveries etc.
Usual pointers apply as with any vehicle you buy as to its bodily condition / mechanical condition etc - and if in doubt take someone who wouldn't look at it through 'rose tinted' glasses and would give a honest opinion.

[zirk]

Just about very Van I've ever had has been broken into at least once, so only thing I would say is look into door and window security.

[Doctor Gollum]

Generally, most people who rent vans cannot drive them...

If it looks clean and tidy, chances are that it's full of filler. Buy direct from auction fleet disposals... BCA is a good place to start, as that way you can see what you're buying...

Alternatively, approach your local independent rental place and have a chat about buying one of their older fleet.

[JDX]

Thanks for all the replies...useful information there.
I am gonna have to dig deeper but have decided to go with the sprinter...XLWB high roof. We saw a couple yesterday & they seem solid, well built & are very nice to drive. One of those I looked at, had 319000 miles on it but still looked very good. I'm not gonna buy it, of course, I think it will be a false economy & I can't be dealing with unreliability or roadside breakdowns.
There is I believe, an extra high roof version but thankfully discovered that even though I'm 6'3" I can stand up straight in the back of the high roof version.
They are huge in the back, the overhang at the rear seems mental & so now I need to find one, which everyone tells me, will be difficult. To make it even harder, I would prefer one that isn't white; maybe silver or blue but I suspect I will probably end up conceding that choice.

[johnnydog]

From experience, at auction, any colour of van other than white, ie silver or dark blue, if in good order will get a premium, possibly to get away from 'white van man' labelling.
I have seen some tidy vans in Police Vehicle auctions and prices can be favourable. Most forces use LWB high roof vans, in dark blue, rather than white. Generally they are well maintained, but some have worn interiors, but as with any vehicle for sale, they all need individual accessment, but good ones do turn up. Not all Police Vehicles are used for 'patrol' purposes, which is usually the hardest use a Police Vehicle will see.
Depends how long you are prepared to wait for the right one, and if the wait is worth a monetary saving.

[Doctor Gollum]

Alot of the Plod PSU vehicles are actually over 3.5t, even in short/medium wheel base, so shop carefully 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Transits rot....very badly....and very quickly. (the Mercs are not much better) so if going for something 7 years or older look carefully and prod everywhere.

Oh yes, Transits!

[Nick W]

Transits rot....very badly....and very quickly. (the Mercs are not much better) so if going for something 7 years or older look carefully and prod everywhere.

Oh yes, Transits!

That.


Sprinters and Crafters are the same with different engines, which both have issues. Neither company keep spares, which are expensive when they do arrive. And you have to take them to commercial dealers, as the car dealers aren't allowed to work on them.


I wouldn't buy a van that wasn't a Ford.


Another thing to consider with big vans is that is very easy to massively overload them, with all of the problems that can cause.

[Marks DTM Calib]

But not a Transit over 7 years old.....unless your good at welding......to thin shit steel

[Nick W]

But not a Transit over 7 years old.....unless your good at welding......to thin shit steel

I've done that, but it isn't viable as a paying job. I rebuilt the door steps, floors, sills and inner wings on one of our work vans; the driver said it was a lot better to drive without floating front struts!  That was 4 days work, but they didn't have anything else for me to do at the time and the van was tidy, signwritten, had just been fitted with a replacement engine, and had the fuel drain gear installed.


Big, hard used vans are considered consumables.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I had to do a 70k 8 year old one, new outer sills, repair to the inner wings and bottom of the A post, sections of inner sills, van floor cross members...was a shocking state.

[JDX]

Are the new shape Transits likely to be any better than the old?

[Nick W]

Are the new shape Transits likely to be any better than the old?

They've been the same basic structure  for years. So no, they're not any better.
But what else would you buy; the Crinfter isn't much better(and costs a lot more), the Primvaroster devours gearboxes, Ivecos kill engines etc, etc. It's a case of finding one of a size and shape that suits your use, and hoping you get away without too many of the expensive problems.

[JDX]

I suppose there is always an element of luck....& risk. I can only try & mitigate against any huge bills/disasters by going for one with a good history
& reasonable mileage. There are an awful lot of Sprinters on the road, I assumed because they were very reliable but maybe it's because of lack of choice. The Transits seem very popular too but maybe for the same reason. The Transits are a bit cheaper so I could get something newer & therefore less likely to start rusting    Or maybe, I go cheaper & keep funds in reserve in case of any future big bills...
Anyhow, radar is now switched on & being monitored!

[78bex]

This bloke is based in Oxford & sells ex plod, no idea if he`s any good mind 

   https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/forcevans

Ebay trading rules might play in your favour if it turns out to be a lemon 

[JDX]

This bloke is based in Oxford & sells ex plod, no idea if he`s any good mind 

   https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/forcevans

Ebay trading rules might play in your favour if it turns out to be a lemon 

Thanks...I had already seen a couple they were advertising, will keep an eye 

[aaronjb]

It's a case of finding one of a size and shape that suits your use, and hoping you get away without too many of the expensive problems.

So basically the same as buying a car?  Though I do get that vans are considered entirely 'consumable' - primary market, I guess, is medium and up businesses who run them until they're financially off the books (3 years?) and then dispose of them, at which point they get bought up on the secondary market that Ford/GM/etc don't give two hoots about..

On second thoughts, that sounds a lot like cars, too, just replace 'financially off the books' with 'the PCP is finished' and 'medium and up businesses' with 'people'!

[JDX]

It's a case of finding one of a size and shape that suits your use, and hoping you get away without too many of the expensive problems.

So basically the same as buying a car?  Though I do get that vans are considered entirely 'consumable' - primary market, I guess, is medium and up businesses who run them until they're financially off the books (3 years?) and then dispose of them, at which point they get bought up on the secondary market that Ford/GM/etc don't give two hoots about..

On second thoughts, that sounds a lot like cars, too, just replace 'financially off the books' with 'the PCP is finished' and 'medium and up businesses' with 'people'!

....all sounds plausible to me. The other issue for me is paying for it! As well as being old  I am maybe old school!? I have always tried to stick to  the adage : "If you haven't got the money, don't buy it". My Dad kind of tried to guide me & other than a mortgage of course, if I can't afford to buy it, I don't buy it. I won't borrow money for a car - probably why I drive an Omega 

[Doctor Gollum]

This bloke is based in Oxford & sells ex plod, no idea if he`s any good mind 

   https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/forcevans

Ebay trading rules might play in your favour if it turns out to be a lemon 

Using his stock as examples,

ALL OF THE VEHICLES WITH TWIN REAR WHEELS, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, REQUIRE A C1 LICENCE AND TACHOGRAPH.

The two large Transit Minibuses, as above, but require D1. If you past your test in 1997 or later, then budget about £1400 for an appropriate five part test or forget the idea.

[aaronjb]

Given JDX referred to himself as "old", I suspect he passed his test long before 1997, but you never know..

I mean, I'm barely middle aged and I have C1 & D1 entitlements (passed 1995) - part of me would still like to get my C & CE, for no particular reason other than filling my license up

[STEMO]

Given JDX referred to himself as "old", I suspect he passed his test long before 1997, but you never know..

I mean, I'm barely middle aged and I have C1 & D1 entitlements (passed 1995) - part of me would still like to get my C & CE, for no particular reason other than filling my license up

Mine has: AM, A1, A2, A, B1, B, C1, C, D1, D, BE, C1E, CE, D1E, DE  and fklnpq whatever they are. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Given JDX referred to himself as "old", I suspect he passed his test long before 1997, but you never know..

I mean, I'm barely middle aged and I have C1 & D1 entitlements (passed 1995) - part of me would still like to get my C & CE, for no particular reason other than filling my license up

Mine has: AM, A1, A2, A, B1, B, C1, C, D1, D, BE, C1E, CE, D1E, DE and fklnpq whatever they are. 

Unless you have had a medical for them, these aren't valid, Driver CPC notwithstanding

[STEMO]

Given JDX referred to himself as "old", I suspect he passed his test long before 1997, but you never know..

I mean, I'm barely middle aged and I have C1 & D1 entitlements (passed 1995) - part of me would still like to get my C & CE, for no particular reason other than filling my license up

Mine has: AM, A1, A2, A, B1, B, C1, C, D1, D, BE, C1E, CE, D1E, DE and fklnpq whatever they are. 

Unless you have had a medical for them, these aren't valid, Driver CPC notwithstanding

No idea, Al, it’s just what it says on my licence.