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Author Topic: Caters tuning guide question  (Read 837 times)

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laney101

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Caters tuning guide question
« on: 05 February 2018, 07:27:32 »

Read through the whole caters tuning guide on internet other day and a lot of it is information from this site?

Main thing asking was it was stating putting 2.5v6 heads on 3.2 block matching the ports and using 3.2 head gaskets raises compression a bit allowing more power and linking with 4xg cams made quite a good cheap power hike


My question is what would sticking 2.6 heads onto a 3.2 do ? I'm guessing the chamber is smaller than a 3.2 so would still raise compression so why not use these instead... Or is it the 2.5 are smaller again allowing higher compression than a 2.6 head ......
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omegod

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #1 on: 05 February 2018, 12:54:01 »

I think the only difference between 2.6/3.2 is the length of stroke
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LC0112G

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #2 on: 05 February 2018, 13:20:41 »

My question is what would sticking 2.6 heads onto a 3.2 do ? I'm guessing the chamber is smaller than a 3.2 so would still raise compression so why not use these instead... Or is it the 2.5 are smaller again allowing higher compression than a 2.6 head ......

EPC says the X25XE and Y26SE share the same cylinder head part numbers, including valves, springs and camshafts. So it appears to me the engine top end is identical.

Con rods are the same too, and EPC lists the same crankshaft p/n, so stroke must be the same although the bearing part numbers are different for some reason? However, the main difference appears to be that X25XE blocks use 81.6mm diameter pistons, whereas Y26SE uses 83.2mm diameter pistons. That's a 3.96% increase in surface area so for the same stroke it raises a 2.5L to 2.599L. So looks like a simple block overbore job to me. It therefore follows that any reduction in compression ratio must be due to lower piston height.

Never seen either in real life, but that's what the part numbers say.
« Last Edit: 05 February 2018, 13:22:49 by LC0112G »
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Fuse 19

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #3 on: 05 February 2018, 16:20:00 »

Camshafts are NOT the same but the cylinder heads are from 1998 onwards (when an additional web was added to allow the coil per plug setup to be screwed into place....same is true of the 3.0/3.2 heads)
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LC0112G

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2018, 17:49:43 »

Camshafts are NOT the same but the cylinder heads are from 1998 onwards (when an additional web was added to allow the coil per plug setup to be screwed into place....same is true of the 3.0/3.2 heads)

Well, my 2001 version of EPC and the online version both agree that the X25XE and Y26SE use the same camshafts, although there is a change to both dependent on engine number.

Inlet = 90509845 (NLS) superceeds to 90512905 at engine number 08077074
Exhaust = 90509846 (NLS) superceeds to 90512906 at engine number 08077074

https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/v94/e/4/35-0/#1

There is a different p/n listed (24456229) but no details on when/where it's used. NLS anyway.
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laney101

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #5 on: 06 February 2018, 09:14:40 »

So basically dropping a 2.6 head on my 3.2 will do what I'm wanting raise compression .. Just make sure I fit 3.2 exhaust valves as sodium filled and 3.2 cams or 4xg...


Anyone any idea how much compression will be once 2.6 heads are fitted ... According to quide a 3.2 with 2.5 heads give around 10.8.1 which is good improvement overstock allowing more ignition when super unleaded being used
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #6 on: 06 February 2018, 09:26:16 »

You need to do the calculations. IIRC, I worked it out a few years back and it was going to result in too much compression but it's possible that was for a 3.0 bottom end not 3.2.
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Fuse 19

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #7 on: 06 February 2018, 10:46:56 »

Camshafts are NOT the same but the cylinder heads are from 1998 onwards (when an additional web was added to allow the coil per plug setup to be screwed into place....same is true of the 3.0/3.2 heads)

Well, my 2001 version of EPC and the online version both agree that the X25XE and Y26SE use the same camshafts, although there is a change to both dependent on engine number.

Inlet = 90509845 (NLS) superceeds to 90512905 at engine number 08077074
Exhaust = 90509846 (NLS) superceeds to 90512906 at engine number 08077074

https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/v94/e/4/35-0/#1

There is a different p/n listed (24456229) but no details on when/where it's used. NLS anyway.

I have rebuilt a fair few 2.6's (for stem seals) and none of them used the E and F cams
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Fuse 19

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #8 on: 06 February 2018, 10:48:13 »

You need to do the calculations. IIRC, I worked it out a few years back and it was going to result in too much compression but it's possible that was for a 3.0 bottom end not 3.2.

I had some calcs and it gets it to very close to the 3.0, putting them on a 3.0 would certainly raise it to high :y
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Nick W

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #9 on: 06 February 2018, 10:54:22 »

So basically dropping a 2.6 head on my 3.2 will do what I'm wanting raise compression .. Just make sure I fit 3.2 exhaust valves as sodium filled and 3.2 cams or 4xg...


Anyone any idea how much compression will be once 2.6 heads are fitted ... According to quide a 3.2 with 2.5 heads give around 10.8.1 which is good improvement overstock allowing more ignition when super unleaded being used


You do know that standard management uses the knock sensor to retard from the preset ideal, not advance to it?
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Fuse 19

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #10 on: 06 February 2018, 11:18:46 »

So basically dropping a 2.6 head on my 3.2 will do what I'm wanting raise compression .. Just make sure I fit 3.2 exhaust valves as sodium filled and 3.2 cams or 4xg...


Anyone any idea how much compression will be once 2.6 heads are fitted ... According to quide a 3.2 with 2.5 heads give around 10.8.1 which is good improvement overstock allowing more ignition when super unleaded being used


You do know that standard management uses the knock sensor to retard from the preset ideal, not advance to it?

The Bosch setup advances until knock is detected and then retards by 2 degrees before repeating again, it will adapt quite nicely.  :y
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laney101

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #11 on: 06 February 2018, 12:28:04 »

Indeed apadpts nicely obviously to a point however I will be going standalone management/piggyback ecu at same time so can be mapped properly...

So that is no issue to me... However don't want it so high that even 99octane fuel isn't enough to make use of the compression haha

3.2 is lower comp than 3.0 or 2.5   so I would think fitting smaller cc head would raise it but not to level of that on a 3.0 .... Anyways shall see haha

I'll strip 2.6 heads down rebuild fit 3.2 exhaust valves reshape ports to match 3.2 manifolds and have chambers and valves coated
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deviator

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #12 on: 06 February 2018, 14:00:08 »

I have rebuilt a fair few 2.6's (for stem seals) and none of them used the E and F cams
Didn't the Vectra 2.6 sri have E & F? I know the GSI got 4 x A.

To the OP, G's for BHP A's for torque (apparently). Or combine the two. I seem to remember reading the power comes in later with all G's.
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laney101

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #13 on: 06 February 2018, 15:26:34 »

Don't a 3.2 have G inlet and J exh ... I'm sending a set of 3.2 cams of to be reground by newman cams
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deviator

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Re: Caters tuning guide question
« Reply #14 on: 06 February 2018, 15:39:04 »

Don't a 3.2 have G inlet and J exh ... I'm sending a set of 3.2 cams of to be reground by newman cams
I think it depends on what car the 3.2 came from, I seem to remember one had H and J. IIRC the H & the J are great, at holding doors open  ;)
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