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Author Topic: Non-Starting Elite Estate  (Read 5634 times)

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JamesV6CDX

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Non-Starting Elite Estate
« on: 25 February 2018, 15:34:24 »

2.6 V6 Estate,  I didn't really need it but have purchased from Terbs with a known starting problem, to see if I can save it from the scrapper.

When I picked it up, it started first time, remained running, and went home like it had been stung. I stopped at Tesco's en route, and she started without hesitation when I came out.

The following day, I started it up to move it on the drive, and again it started fine. Because my mind was elsewhere, I forgot to let it get a bit warm before turning it off, and killed the engine after it had only run for a very brief period.

The next day, it wouldn't start. Cranked, wouldn't fire.

I thought perhaps, I'd flooded it, so left it 48 hours. Still didn't start. Cranking at WOT didn't make any difference.

Today I fitted the spare crank sensor Terbs gave me - a used genuine one from the Omega spares outfit near heathrow. Had to do it from above, as the car was on grass  ::)

Still no difference, won't go.

The tank is over half full, and with the fuel feed line removed from the rail, it spurts fuel upon turning the ignition, so I don't think there's a fuel issue.

Testing has shown however, there's no spark at any of the plugs on the 1-3-5 bank when cranking, and I suspect 2-4-6 is the same.

The original crank sensor was pattern, fitted a year ago, so was prime suspect. I wonder if I'm just unlucky, and the replacement is also goosed? (There is evidence of where it's been crimped behind oil cooler pipes, so it's likely to be an old one, and removal/transit may well have finished it off).

My obvious next step is to fit a new GM crank sensor, unless anyone has any other ideas about what would cause lack of spark?

I should add, no codes stored either before or after sensor change.

Cheers :y
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mantamania

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #1 on: 25 February 2018, 15:51:55 »

Hi, I had the same problem a couple of years ago. The baffling thing was the lack of fault codes. I replaced the crank sensor with a Delphi one and I have had no problems.
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powerslinky

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #2 on: 25 February 2018, 16:19:14 »

James ,   it may be best to ask Terbs if this was what was happening before he fitted the new  replacement crank sensor . 
We all know that used ones are a lottery as damage can occur on removal /re fit etc.
And pattern ( seems it was fitted with one of these ) have a life span of days , weeks , months or years  ::) ::)
Also what about an immobiliser issue ?  My money is on CS though  ;)

no codes usually means CS on 2.6 /3.2 IMO  :-\
« Last Edit: 25 February 2018, 16:21:19 by Essex Big Al »
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zirk

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #3 on: 25 February 2018, 16:22:08 »

Any Codes?, Immobilizer issue?

Check the separate black Earth lead to the main ECU is not loose, and you can also use a jump lead from the ECU Housing back to the Battery Neg to rule out any Earting problems, I had similar.

Also Ive had ECU issues on the V6 DBW more than once now, especially on cars that have been left stood for a while, so assuming you have access to another 2.6 or 3.2, temporary swop the ECU, Transponder Box and Key Chip onto it, its only a 10 min job, this should prove the ECU is good and rule out any transponder issues, label up your parts from each car, just in case you have a brain freeze moment.  ;)
« Last Edit: 25 February 2018, 16:24:50 by zirk »
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TheBoy

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #4 on: 25 February 2018, 16:43:09 »

I've seen none starting on a 3.2 that turned out to be ECU, in the case I've seen, accompanied by excessive chatter from the TB, and diags equip constantly disconnecting.

In this particular case, the suspicion was on an old style battery charger being used without disconnecting battery (but might get similar with jumpstarting) - not sure if Terbs knows if this has happened in his ownership?


But CS is a likely - as last time Terbs had this issue (on this car?) that was the issue...
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Grumpy old man

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #5 on: 25 February 2018, 17:22:59 »

I would swap crank sensors with the one on your other car and see if the symptoms also swap cars.
Otherwise, as mentioned possible ECU. when I was breaking Omegas I sold a couple of 3.2 ECU,s to people with these type of symptoms, and replacement cured the problem.
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Enceladus

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #6 on: 25 February 2018, 17:39:51 »

If the original crank sensor was replaced (12 months ago?) and has since been giving trouble it might be that it's the wrong one. As I recall there are two different versions with an oval connector fitted to V6s. One is Bosch GM-part 90542073 and the other is Siemens-GM-part 90492061. Although they both fit apparently they are not interchangeable.

There is also a crank sensor with a rectangular 3 pole connector. That's GM-part 90492006, not sure of the original manufacturer or application. Possibly 3.2 V6?

Is there anything to help identify the one you removed and the one from Heathrow?
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Chazza12

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #7 on: 26 February 2018, 04:55:58 »

I had a problem vauxhall a few years ago would not start. been stud for 3 years in a garage, would just turn over and over no codes nothing. anyway it turned out to be the oil pressure sensor. replaced it and engine came to life after that. think it was 2003-4 astra 3.2. if that helps. 
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terry paget

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #8 on: 26 February 2018, 09:16:39 »

Any Codes?, Immobilizer issue?

Check the separate black Earth lead to the main ECU is not loose, and you can also use a jump lead from the ECU Housing back to the Battery Neg to rule out any Earting problems, I had similar.

Also Ive had ECU issues on the V6 DBW more than once now, especially on cars that have been left stood for a while, so assuming you have access to another 2.6 or 3.2, temporary swop the ECU, Transponder Box and Key Chip onto it, its only a 10 min job, this should prove the ECU is good and rule out any transponder issues, label up your parts from each car, just in case you have a brain freeze moment.  ;)
Is the transponder box the ignition switch surround? That test is worth knowing. I had a dead 24v Senator, which I cured by swopping ECUs with a good Senator. Not so easy to do on an Omega with fittd immodiliser.
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zirk

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #9 on: 26 February 2018, 13:53:56 »

Any Codes?, Immobilizer issue?

Check the separate black Earth lead to the main ECU is not loose, and you can also use a jump lead from the ECU Housing back to the Battery Neg to rule out any Earting problems, I had similar.

Also Ive had ECU issues on the V6 DBW more than once now, especially on cars that have been left stood for a while, so assuming you have access to another 2.6 or 3.2, temporary swop the ECU, Transponder Box and Key Chip onto it, its only a 10 min job, this should prove the ECU is good and rule out any transponder issues, label up your parts from each car, just in case you have a brain freeze moment.  ;)
Is the transponder box the ignition switch surround? That test is worth knowing. I had a dead 24v Senator, which I cured by swopping ECUs with a good Senator. Not so easy to do on an Omega with fittd immodiliser.
Yep, well thats what I call it anyway, no doubt there a tech name for it, Immobilizer Detector Pick Up Ring?.

It really is  probably just as easy to do as a Senny, if you have access to another set up its worth doing just to rule it out as it can be a bit of a Brain Teaser.

My money is still on the Crank Sensor, same deal if youve got a known good CS at held. But I reckon you can swap out the ECU quicker than getting underneath to the CS so would be rude not to.

« Last Edit: 26 February 2018, 13:56:24 by zirk »
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terry paget

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #10 on: 26 February 2018, 14:23:09 »

Any Codes?, Immobilizer issue?

Check the separate black Earth lead to the main ECU is not loose, and you can also use a jump lead from the ECU Housing back to the Battery Neg to rule out any Earting problems, I had similar.

Also Ive had ECU issues on the V6 DBW more than once now, especially on cars that have been left stood for a while, so assuming you have access to another 2.6 or 3.2, temporary swop the ECU, Transponder Box and Key Chip onto it, its only a 10 min job, this should prove the ECU is good and rule out any transponder issues, label up your parts from each car, just in case you have a brain freeze moment.  ;)
Is the transponder box the ignition switch surround? That test is worth knowing. I had a dead 24v Senator, which I cured by swopping ECUs with a good Senator. Not so easy to do on an Omega with fittd immodiliser.
Yep, well thats what I call it anyway, no doubt there a tech name for it, Immobilizer Detector Pick Up Ring?.

It really is  probably just as easy to do as a Senny, if you have access to another set up its worth doing just to rule it out as it can be a bit of a Brain Teaser.

My money is still on the Crank Sensor, same deal if youve got a known good CS at held. But I reckon you can swap out the ECU quicker than getting underneath to the CS so would be rude not to.
Thanks.
I take off my hat to James for changing the crank sensor from above as car was parked on grass. A few years ago I confessed I did not carry a spare crank sensor because I doubted I could change one at the roadside. TB said he had done it, another member retorted he could do it with the car on its wheels. I have just peered under my bonnet, and could not even see the crank sensor. Well done, James.
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Bigron

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #11 on: 26 February 2018, 14:30:59 »

Ask Albs how he did mine, despite its being a tight bugger!  :y

Ron.
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zirk

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #12 on: 26 February 2018, 14:33:49 »

Any Codes?, Immobilizer issue?

Check the separate black Earth lead to the main ECU is not loose, and you can also use a jump lead from the ECU Housing back to the Battery Neg to rule out any Earting problems, I had similar.

Also Ive had ECU issues on the V6 DBW more than once now, especially on cars that have been left stood for a while, so assuming you have access to another 2.6 or 3.2, temporary swop the ECU, Transponder Box and Key Chip onto it, its only a 10 min job, this should prove the ECU is good and rule out any transponder issues, label up your parts from each car, just in case you have a brain freeze moment.  ;)
Is the transponder box the ignition switch surround? That test is worth knowing. I had a dead 24v Senator, which I cured by swopping ECUs with a good Senator. Not so easy to do on an Omega with fittd immodiliser.
Yep, well thats what I call it anyway, no doubt there a tech name for it, Immobilizer Detector Pick Up Ring?.

It really is  probably just as easy to do as a Senny, if you have access to another set up its worth doing just to rule it out as it can be a bit of a Brain Teaser.

My money is still on the Crank Sensor, same deal if youve got a known good CS at held. But I reckon you can swap out the ECU quicker than getting underneath to the CS so would be rude not to.
Thanks.
I take off my hat to James for changing the crank sensor from above as car was parked on grass. A few years ago I confessed I did not carry a spare crank sensor because I doubted I could change one at the roadside. TB said he had done it, another member retorted he could do it with the car on its wheels. I have just peered under my bonnet, and could not even see the crank sensor. Well done, James.
If James can change the Crank Sensor on a V6 from above without getting underneath it, I'd like to shake his hand, preferably while Hes not upside down..  ;D
« Last Edit: 26 February 2018, 14:35:54 by zirk »
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Bigron

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #13 on: 26 February 2018, 14:39:21 »

Ask Albs how he did mine, despite its being a tight bugger!  :y

Ron.

Er, that's the crank sensor bolt, not Albs!

Ron.
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zirk

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Re: Non-Starting Elite Estate
« Reply #14 on: 26 February 2018, 14:44:55 »

Ask Albs how he did mine, despite its being a tight bugger!  :y

Ron.

Er, that's the crank sensor bolt, not Albs!

Ron.
Too late now Ron, youve said it, its engraved in Black and White Text till the death of the Forum.  ;D 
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