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[TheBoy]

Long-winded tosh. Google maps are fine for the majority of people.

I would imagine one of the free apps is better for most who can't maintain a consistent, decent, 4G data connection.  For those perfectly happy to use a phone, anyway (which I ain't - too expense when I keep smashing them up or chucking them out the window)

[Nick W]

(Ignoring Google and MS for a mo)

There are only 2 mapping providers - Teleatlas (now owned by TomTom) and Here (formally Navteq).  Both are about equal in their accuracy, and number of streets with number etc, but for a given area, one might be better than the other.

All portable units, including phones, are shite. Always have been, always will be.  Once you accept that, you can make an informed decision.  My decision was to not use them when I chucked my last portable unit out of the window along the A38.


If using a phone based nav (which is doubly shite, as not only do you have all the issues of portable units, you have a small screen to deal with, poor quality audio to deal with, and invariably shitty mounting solutions), most options are free.  So you can try Teleatlas maps (TomTom is free on iOS, and I think they might have released Android ones now), Here maps (Here app is free, although ad ridden).  The online navigation options may or may not work for you - I vaguely recall you saying you struggled with signal in your area.


Most navigation algorithms pick a route, not necessarily the best route.  Google Maps, for example, proper foooked us in Londonium last week, and we spent an hour on The Strand.  Fortunately, the weather was hot, so there were things to admire.
  So never an alternative to glancing at a map before setting out.

Long-winded tosh. Google maps are fine for the majority of people.

Yeah, that.


Having used several handheld units daily throughout the country, they're fine. I prefer Tom-toms due to their UI, but they all give good info on the motorway at over 100mph, and take you to house numbers or separate postcodes in the middle of nowhere or the god forsaken hellholes in the east end.


Google maps is pretty good, but does require a good mobile signal, and that can be an issue.

[TheBoy]

The only real issues impacting performance of (all) portable units is when it has to rely on dead reckoning - built up areas (proper built up areas, not little villages), wooded areas, underground roads etc, or if you have heat reflective glass which blocks GPS.  Portable units don't have the sensors to cope with that, and even phones are using older generation of GPS chips (standalone portable units generally much older).

But if you don't have a factory fit option, its usually your only choice.  But the positional accuracy of the 20yr old CARiN far exceeds that of the most modern portable unit.


Sadly, I do know far too much about GPS chipsets and protocols used, due to some other interests and hobbies I have.  Generally, you need a minimum of 6-8 sats to get a proper lock.  Most portable units will claim to have a lock around 3-5 sats, when they don't, and by their nature in a car, they will struggle to get into double figures (more sats, better the accuracy, and less reliance on weaker signals).  A modern chipset should easily get 20+ sats in open space.

[Kevin Wood]

You'll struggle to get into double figures anyway, on the ground, at least, but the GPS positioning only has to be as accurate as the mapping, and that's probably doable with 4, maybe 5 satellites anyway.

In a city environment, where satellites get masked by buildings, it doesn't matter if you have a better antenna, the satellite is no longer line-of-sight, so the signal is not there!

Dead reckoning is handy for all those junctions in tunnels, though.  I found one once - in Italy, I think. My TomTom still directed me correctly.

My experience is that modern GPS receivers give adequate accuracy for navigation with the antenna inside a car. Of course, if you're using whatever was built into your car at production, you probably aren't using a modern GPS receiver. The map data is also probably not modern either, whereas on a smartphone it's being updated as you drive, and you can take the same system from one car to another without having to learn its quirks.

[Viral_Jim]

Someone who agrees with me who is into tech as well!

Current-ish roadmap (usually) always in the car...

Snap!!  A large scale AA book of National Maps plus another book of local maps!

I don't need local maps really, because most places are easy to find. We managed before satnav. Atlas just there to make mental note of towns etc.

....and that is what I tell all the 'youngsters' around me

I managed before using my phone as well, I just used to sit in a lot more traffic jams. Without the phone unit, my only guide to traffic was either the radio or the poxy matrix boards. Both of which seem to manage to tell you about a traffic jam, only after you've sat in it for a solid 20mins or so  .

So far this week I've done 7 of my 75 mile trips to/from work and I've been a total of four different routes, all prompted by the phone and all taking the same time +/- about 5-8mins, just using a map is completely useless in this scenario. I know where I'm going, I go there 3-5 times a week, its just all the queues of useless tossers on the roads that I need to avoid.

All I could do with a map is sit and read it while I wait for the emergency services to clear the wreckage of the latest moron's car/van/truck off the central reservation.

Also, for anyone that doesn't know, Google maps does support offline mapping, meaning you only need the 3/4G signal for traffic, streetview etc.

[aaronjb]

I managed before using my phone as well, I just used to sit in a lot more traffic jams. Without the phone unit, my only guide to traffic was either the radio or the poxy matrix boards. Both of which seem to manage to tell you about a traffic jam, only after you've sat in it for a solid 20mins or so  .

Yep, Waze/Google Maps are great for live traffic (actually not sure which is best.. I tend to use Waze, though I couldn't tell you why). Likewise I got around just fine in the 90s without satnav (although I did spend a good hour looking for a customer in the middle of Leeds, once!), but there was about 10% of the traffic we have today and traffic jams just weren't as bad .. unless my rose tinted specs are very rose tinted.

I've had a Sat Nav since one of the earliest Tom Toms and I've never once felt the compulsion to throw it out of the window because it's got me lost - I mean, I've still taken the odd wrong turn, but at least it can get me back to where I needed to be without me having to stop and figure out where I just ended up.

I was tempted to throw my old Motorola MicroTAC out of the window on many occasions, though! Damn thing was indestructible so I'd only have had to go back and pick it back up...

[Andy H]

(Ignoring Google and MS for a mo)

There are only 2 mapping providers - Teleatlas (now owned by TomTom) and Here (formally Navteq).  Both are about equal in their accuracy, and number of streets with number etc, but for a given area, one might be better than the other.

All portable units, including phones, are shite. Always have been, always will be.  Once you accept that, you can make an informed decision.  My decision was to not use them when I chucked my last portable unit out of the window along the A38.


If using a phone based nav (which is doubly shite, as not only do you have all the issues of portable units, you have a small screen to deal with, poor quality audio to deal with, and invariably shitty mounting solutions), most options are free.  So you can try Teleatlas maps (TomTom is free on iOS, and I think they might have released Android ones now), Here maps (Here app is free, although ad ridden).  The online navigation options may or may not work for you - I vaguely recall you saying you struggled with signal in your area.


Most navigation algorithms pick a route, not necessarily the best route.  Google Maps, for example, proper foooked us in Londonium last week, and we spent an hour on The Strand.  Fortunately, the weather was hot, so there were things to admire.
  So never an alternative to glancing at a map before setting out.

Long-winded tosh. Google maps are fine for the majority of people.

Yeah, that.


Having used several handheld units daily throughout the country, they're fine. I prefer Tom-toms due to their UI, but they all give good info on the motorway at over 100mph, and take you to house numbers or separate postcodes in the middle of nowhere or the god forsaken hellholes in the east end.


Google maps is pretty good, but does require a good mobile signal, and that can be an issue.

Because I don't have mobile data abroad I tried using the built in Blaupunkt unit in SWMBO's Galaxy for driving round Ireland and France  a couple of years ago and gave up.  I also tried my old Garmin and gave up on that too....

I then took to downloading maps in Google Maps using WiFi wherever we were staying - works well for me. A map covering about 1/3 of France takes quite a while to download but then works just as well as a live map (but without traffic updates of course)

 

[Doctor Gollum]

Absolutely no excuse not to have a 3 payg sim in an unlocked smart phone for overseas travel...

Top it up suitably as you board the ferry and you will get enough free data for your holiday, especially if only using it as a map/travel guide

[biggriffin]

Go on eBay, you can by a 7" sat nav, for £35. Will cover the whole of Europe, and if you need, you can use it in a camper, or hgv as they have those settings.

If you want real time traffic, then the best at the moment is any TomTom with live services,..

[TheBoy]

Of course, if you're using whatever was built into your car at production, you probably aren't using a modern GPS receiver. The map data is also probably not modern either

The point being, the proper ones dont need dead reckoning - even without a GPS signal, their other sensors can pretty accurately tell where you are...


...my old CARiN, I drove around for days with not GPS antenna plugged in (forgot  ), and it took a lot of journeys before it started to drift.  The GPS on that system was not the primary positioning sensor.


Obviously, that creates downsides as well, as a failed ABS unit will cause an NCDC to not ever move, because it has no speed sensor signal, which it trusts ore than the GPS position.



But all horses for courses. A technology that cant be relied upon is not fit, IMHO

[Kevin Wood]

Fair enough, but, as relying solely on GPS has only been a problem in one tunnel in Italy for me (and that turned out OK on dead reckoning), I tend to favour up to date technology and mapping over whatever's in the car byt the time I've bought it 2nd / 3rd hand.

Car systems seem to be difficult to use and a constant PITA. My Dad wanted a map update for his. Procedure? Pay Volvo a load of money, then insert this USB stick, and leave the engine running for 6 hours.  

[TheBoy]

Fair enough, but, as relying solely on GPS has only been a problem in one tunnel in Italy for me (and that turned out OK on dead reckoning), I tend to favour up to date technology and mapping over whatever's in the car byt the time I've bought it 2nd / 3rd hand.

Car systems seem to be difficult to use and a constant PITA. My Dad wanted a map update for his. Procedure? Pay Volvo a load of money, then insert this USB stick, and leave the engine running for 6 hours.  

LOL, same system as the Jag.  Only mine destroyed the hard drive .  Volvo now offer the updates for free, direct from their website BTW.



As said, horses for courses. If it works for you, bang on .  My last standalone Tomtom let me down badly in Birmingham (threw out of the window). The previous one in Londonium (broken when I threw it in passenger footwell).  That's why I went to the effort to retrofit the slow, featureless CARiN to my MV6....   ...those sort of technology frustrations really do press my buttons. An expensive failing of mine


Strangely, one of my early navs (tomtom on a Windows PDA, with a separate GPS receiver when StarSirf II was the latest and greatest) had a proper spaz in Italy as well.  Must be the Italians

[TheBoy]

You'll struggle to get into double figures anyway, on the ground, at least

Granted, was out in the open, but notice on power-on, my quad had 18 locked in sats .  Granted, also much newer GPS hardware than what goes into standalone portable units as well...


Apologies its gayTube…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv6TT8GKUYk

[aaronjb]

Granted, was out in the open, but notice on power-on, my quad had 18 locked in sats .  Granted, also much newer GPS hardware than what goes into standalone portable units as well...

Indoors, sitting at my desk, my phone is locked on 12 sats..

[Kevin Wood]

Granted, was out in the open, but notice on power-on, my quad had 18 locked in sats .  Granted, also much newer GPS hardware than what goes into standalone portable units as well...

Indoors, sitting at my desk, my phone is locked on 12 sats..

But you know where you are already...