Topic: Back to square one... (Read 6055 times)

Nickbat · « **on:** 31 July 2006, 18:26:24 »

My Omega now has a replacement aircon compressor (see aircon compressor removal thread). I can't use it though because the numpties at the garage have run out of gas for the system. I have to take it back tomorrow or Wednesday to be gassed up.

BUT, the power steering fuse is still blowing.

Ive tried disconecting the driver's seat heater and the rear blind, but to no avail, the thing still eats fuses and it's a pain to drive, especially round corners!

I understand that there is a PAS relay which might be causing problems. Where is it located? Could I use one of the spare ECU-area relays that I bought in a job lot off eBay some time back, or is it a special relay.

Anyone got suggestions as to cause of this problem?

RossPhim · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 July 2006, 20:59:41 »

Nick, Sorry to hear that you are still having problems.
I had a similar experience about 6 months after I bought mine. I have no idea what blew the fuse the first time but I kept replacing fuses for a couple of days and they all blew very quickly.
If you drive one of these without the ps then you will soon have biceps like arnie.
The problem I had was I was replacing the fuses from a well known supermarket brand (i know .... cheapskate scotsman), and they were just not up to it.
So my question is : are you using a decent brand of fuses?
Ross

P.S. Glad you made it over btw.

Nickbat · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 July 2006, 21:07:29 »

Ross,
They are just unbranded under-the-counter fuses from my local car accesory shop. Did you "cure" the prpblem by using better fuses?

P.S. Nice to be here

RossPhim · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 July 2006, 21:16:26 »

Yes it did actually.

It's a long shot but might be worth a try.
El cheapo fixo.

Nickbat · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 July 2006, 21:19:13 »

Did you get genuine Vauxhall fuses or branded aftermarket like Lucas?

If this works, I'll wet myself with glee!

RossPhim · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 July 2006, 21:26:10 »

Quote

Did you get genuine Vauxhall fuses or branded aftermarket like Lucas?

I think I went to a Vx main dealer, but don't tell the rest of the dudes on here, I'll never live it down.

Quote

If this works, I'll wet myself with glee!

I'd be carefull where you are when you give it a try then!

TheBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 July 2006, 21:27:48 »

We like genuine Vauxhall parts. We just don't like their spotty tossers touching our cars....

Nickbat · « **Reply #7 on:** 01 August 2006, 10:48:31 »

Tried a genuine Vx fuse, but it still blew as soon as I switched on the ignition.

I've disconnected the heated seats, rear blind and fag lighter - and still it blows.

Look like it must be down to the PAS circuit.

Does anyone know the location of the PAS relay?

Help urgently required as I need the car for a long journey on Thursday.

RossPhim · « **Reply #8 on:** 01 August 2006, 11:18:59 »

Is it fuse No. 14 - 30Amp?
Not sure on your spec, (it can't be far from mine if you've got a rear blind), but I have it protecting : power steering, lighter, rear window blind, air circulation system electronic air conditioning system, heated rear window, and heated front seats. Have you ruled out all the others as suspects?

I have no knowledge of the PS system, but does the fuse blow when the engine is started or when the key reached the last click prior to starting? If it blows prior to engine fire up it may point to one of the other bits of kit misbehaving.
I am assuming here that the PS circuit would only blow a fuse after the engine has been started. Can anyone confirm?

Nickbat · « **Reply #9 on:** 01 August 2006, 11:26:10 »

It is fuse 14, which is 20 amp according top the handbook. It controls PAS, cigarette lighter, heated seats and rear blind. Fuse blows as soon as ignition is switched on (last click).

Admin · « **Reply #10 on:** 01 August 2006, 11:27:28 »

The only wat to sort this is to isolate the item causing the problem.

Disconnect EVERYTHING relating to that circuit. Make sure you actually unpug all the items.

Then, plug back in one by one, checking each time.

A little time consuming, but really the only way to know for certain.

Oh, and the PAS relay is in the ecu box, can't remember which one it is though.
Someone who has the necessary software can tell quickly enough.

Nickbat · « **Reply #11 on:** 01 August 2006, 11:32:24 »

Thanks, Laidback.

I've already gone down that route and disconnected everything (including ciggie lighter) leaving just the PAS...and the fuse blows, so I assume it must be on the PAS circuit somewhere.

Nickbat · « **Reply #12 on:** 01 August 2006, 12:04:15 »

Hmm. Just checked the ECU relay layout on another forum (

and there's no sign of a PAS relay there. I seem to think I read somewhere, or someone told me, that it was up behind the glovebox. Just need confrimation before I start ripping it out!

Nickbat · « **Reply #13 on:** 01 August 2006, 12:45:11 »

OK, just phoned my local Vx dealer to get an idea of a price for a relay only to be told that there is no PAS relay on my Omega.

Run out of ideas, now.....

Nickbat · « **Reply #14 on:** 01 August 2006, 14:42:38 »

What a way to spend my holiday..

OK, I've just found out that the heated rear window does not work. There is no light coming on at the switch. The 40 amp fuse looks OK.

Weirder and weirder....

Nickbat · « **Reply #15 on:** 01 August 2006, 16:52:44 »

Think I'm talking to myself here

, but anyway, I believe I'm heading in the right direction with this.

While poking around in the fuse box area, I noticed there was a heated rear window relay. I had a spare which I chucked in together with my last fuse. Guess what? PAS came back and the heated seat lights came up (I had been playing with them earlier). Only thing that didn't work was the rear blind but then I remembered I'd disconnected it. Went round to the boot, reconnected it, got back in behind the wheel and zip, the fuse blew.

Got some fresh fuses, but they're blowing again. Could the replacement relay have got cooked by reconnecting the rear blind? Can I check a relay with multimeter? If so, how?

TheBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** 01 August 2006, 17:02:32 »

With the heated rear window relay removed, are you still blowing fuses?

Nickbat · « **Reply #17 on:** 01 August 2006, 17:18:14 »

Good point. I just tried it and, yes, the fuse blows on final click of the key with rear blind disconnected and hrw relay removed.

Another of my theories bites the dust....

TheBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** 01 August 2006, 17:42:02 »

Is it possible to unplug PAS and try? That would prove if it is PAS or not...

Nickbat · « **Reply #19 on:** 01 August 2006, 23:37:25 »

Can't seem to get to the back of the PAS unit to try that, there's just too much in the way...even if I try from underneath the car.

I just don't understand how, on the one hand it seems to be a permanent short circuit when I turn the key but, on the other it occasionally gives me everything OK, albeit for only a few minutes. Sure ain't logical.

Ok, so I need to go to Gatwick early on Thursday morning and I 'd like to take the Omega due to its load-carrying capacity. Is it OK to drive it without PAS? I'm sure I can manage the heavier sterering (used to drive a Manta with no PAS - now THAT was heavy!). Would it damage the steering at all?

Nickbat · « **Reply #20 on:** 02 August 2006, 09:26:28 »

I think I'm going to give up on this, now. The other half said maybe it's ime to get a new car and I'm inclined to agree.

Even my Gunsons fault code reader doesn't seem to want to work now. I tried it yesterday and it was giving me some weird codes: 12, 135 & 31. OK 31 is not wierd (no RPM), but the others aren't listed in the Gunson's leaflet.

I've got a already-paid-for aircon regas this morning, but then I think it's the end of the road. It's really aeating up what free time I have (like last year when the immobiliser went).

No-one has yet confirmed if it's OK (i.e non-damaging) to drive about with no PAS. The car's booked into Gatwick parking tomorrow....

TheBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 02 August 2006, 09:39:59 »

Fault code 12 isn't a fault - its just a code to mark start of others.

135, I'd have to look up.

I think you're OK driving without PAS (build the muscles up

), just don't know for definate. Though airport isn't a million miles away is it?

Nickbat · « **Reply #22 on:** 02 August 2006, 09:48:37 »

Cheers, mate. If you could look up 135, I'd be grateful.

No Gatwick isn't that far (about 60 miles) and its motorway all the way..

Nickbat · « **Reply #23 on:** 02 August 2006, 10:08:14 »

Found a fault code table on the web so 135 means this:

135'Check engine' lamp (fault code lamp) Low voltage

Anyone know what this means:-?

TheBoy · « **Reply #24 on:** 02 August 2006, 11:47:43 »

Possibly just spurious...

Your alternator is working OK, not pumping out too much (around 14v at 2500 rpm is about right)?

Nickbat · « **Reply #25 on:** 02 August 2006, 13:42:32 »

Got a recommended autoelectrician coming round this afternoon. Let's see.

Got royally ripped off by the garage. On Monday they replaced the compressor, but said they'd run out of gas and oil and that I'd have to bring it back for regassing. They requested I pay for everything, which I did (£200 +Vat). I returned today and they regassed it, but said they hadn't charged for regassing and wanted another £72. I protested, saying that I had already paid for it. but they wouldn't have it. I had to pay to get my car back. When I got home I looked up the earlier invoice (wish I'd taken it with me) it said: "Replace A/C compressor and regas: £200.00 + vat". Today's invoice says "Carry out A/C regas: 62.50 + vat".

I called the guy but he got dead stroppy, refused to give me today's money back and put the phone down.

Ever been had?

mr des · « **Reply #26 on:** 02 August 2006, 13:54:02 »

your gonna have to call back in person the busier the better and make a lot of noise, nothing threatening just use your outdoor voice. dont know how the courts work out over there but here in paddyland its only 15 euro to go to the small claims court, not that you would be bothered but dont let them crooks know that. sorry to hear of your bad luck but all i can say is that bad karma follows you around

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #27 on:** 02 August 2006, 14:03:38 »

Straight to trading standards

Do me a favour, measure the battery voltage with the engine revving (3K rpm).

Nickbat · « **Reply #28 on:** 02 August 2006, 15:48:15 »

Thanks for your support guys. I'll see what I acn about getting my money back from these rip-off merchants.

Mark, just went to check the voltage only to find my multimeter needs a new battery (or it's broken, one of the two). I'll get this guy to check when he arrives in the next half hour or so.

Nickbat · « **Reply #29 on:** 02 August 2006, 18:12:53 »

[smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Yeeeeee Haaaaaa!!!!!!

All fixed!!!!!!

Had a visit from a really good autoelectrician. Guess what was causing the loss of PAS, HRW, blind, heated seats etc.?
A short in the cable which feed the heated winsdcreen washer jets

...didn't even know I had them! The cable had pinched between the bonnet and bulkhead right in the corner by the pollen filter. Unbelievable. The guy only charged me 60 notes for a good hour and half outside my house. Well happy.

A glorious day, despite getting ripped off by the pirates in Cricklewood.

Sir Sideways · « **Reply #30 on:** 02 August 2006, 19:19:04 »

Excelent news, glad its all sorted

.

Hope all goes well for gettin ur money back for the re-gas.

Jim

STMO123 · « **Reply #31 on:** 02 August 2006, 19:36:55 »

Nice one! It's amazing how such a small fault can cause you such a lot of aggro. I suppose what you must take from this is that there is only so much you can do yourself.

Auto electrics scare the pants off me, it really is a job for the professionals.

Glad it is all sorted for you but dont let your feelings of relief that your car is now OK stop you from following up on that aircon rip off.

TheBoy · « **Reply #32 on:** 02 August 2006, 21:33:51 »

please its sorted ready for your trip

RossPhim · « **Reply #33 on:** 02 August 2006, 22:14:18 »

Well done Nick.
I presume you are keeping her now, she is all well again!

Nickbat · « **Reply #34 on:** 02 August 2006, 23:55:39 »

Thanks to everyone for their messages. Yes, Ross, I'll be keeping her for now. I love her really...even if she gets on my t*ts at times

!

Assuming she behaves to Gatwick, I'm off abroad on an 07.40 flight tomorrow morning. Got a week's parking at the airport for £56.80 (www.gatwickparking.com). Cheaper than the train when you consider I'm bringing the other half and the two kids back on the return flight.

I'll pursue the rip-off merchants when I get back next week.

Cheers all!

Nickbat · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 August 2006, 22:44:53 »

Got back to Gatwick on BA yesterday...only 3 hours late, which was quite a result given the current situation. Drove the Omega on to the M23 and daughter requested the aircon as she was feeling hot. No problem, I said as I reached out to switch on the twice-paid-for regassed AC system.

Hmmm!. No cool air at all.

Seems the refrigerant has leaked away while the car was parked at the airport....

P.S. Just drafted a letter to my credit card company. I've spoken to them by phone and they seem keen to help me get my money back from the rip-off merchants. I'm even more eager to get the money back given the fact that the AC doesn't work now. However, I wouldn't want to take the car back there under any circumstances.
I have not ruled out using Brent Council's Trading Standards, but they seem hard to get in touch with and this could be a more fruitful avenue.

Nickbat · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 August 2006, 13:37:37 »

Need some advice here.

Finally tracked down my aircon mechanic (he's gone bankrupt, which is helpful!). Anyway he kindly looked over the A/C system with his UV light and reported that the I've a big refrigerant leak from the replaced compressor, plus a smaller, long-term leak at the condensor. Obviously those cowboys in Cricklewood didn't use proper seals for the job. However, I'm in dispute with them and they are aggressive, so even though I should take it back to them, I don't want to go within a mile of their workshop. Question is: can I replace the seals myself? Secondly, has anyone ever replaced a condensor? Is it a DIY job. My mechanic reckons the whole job would cost about £400-£500 if I have it done commercially and, frankly the value and age of the car just don't justify that sort of expense.

I will continue to run the car without A/C, but what is the long-term solution? Repair it or flog it?

nixoro · « **Reply #37 on:** 15 August 2006, 13:49:46 »

Having read your response, I personally wouldn't remove the compressor as I was told it could be dangerous with the gas still inside not sure if there is any truth to this.

As far as DIY replacing is concerned I would have thought it would be quite straight forward to remove and refit its just making sure the seals were good that would concern me.

Just my 2p worth, hope it makes sense and helps

Good Luck with getting it sorted.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #38 on:** 15 August 2006, 13:53:02 »

Aircon pump seals are not to bad to do, neither is the condenser.

Condenser, seals and new dryer should be around 160 quid delivered.

Nickbat · « **Reply #39 on:** 15 August 2006, 14:16:45 »

Quote

Aircon pump seals are not to bad to do, neither is the condenser.

Condenser, seals and new dryer should be around 160 quid delivered.

Thanks for that info, Mark. Do you know if the seals can be replaced in situ, or do I need to physically remove the compressor?

Nickbat · « **Reply #40 on:** 15 August 2006, 16:54:32 »

Condenser/drier and compressor seals all for £139 delivered from Suttons. Not too bad, I guess.

Robin Hood · « **Reply #41 on:** 15 August 2006, 21:46:54 »

Quote

Condenser/drier and compressor seals all for £139 delivered from Suttons. Not too bad, I guess.

Do you have a link for that please, I plan to do the exact same job next month.

Nickbat · « **Reply #42 on:** 15 August 2006, 22:26:59 »

Here's the link, Robin:

http://www.autospares-group.co.uk

Nick

Nickbat · « **Reply #43 on:** 15 August 2006, 22:33:43 »

SORRY!!! IGNORE THE PREVIOUS POST!!

Tried so may places today, I got a bit confused.

I've actually ordered the parts from:

http://www.coolcaraircon.co.uk

I spoke to a really helpful guy called Simon there. You can check availability of parts by phone, but you'll need to order and pay via their website.

Nickbat · « **Reply #44 on:** 16 August 2006, 09:44:41 »

When I take the compressor out to fit the new seals, I need to top it up with PAG oil (can't be sure those dopes at the garage bothered). According to my local spares shop, there are different grades of PAG oil. Anyone know what grade I need?

Nickbat · « **Reply #45 on:** 16 August 2006, 09:59:54 »

Found the answer

For the benefit of anyone who wants to know, the compressor uses PAG 100 oil.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #46 on:** 16 August 2006, 10:49:11 »

Well actualy it should idealy be PAG150- but 100 will do the job

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #47 on:** 16 August 2006, 10:51:55 »

You dont need to remove the compressor to fit the seals, the pipes attach to it via a plate which sandwiches the seals between it self and the compressor body. Remove the bolt holding the plate, ease it up and fit the new seals. Tighten the plate back down again and jobs a good un.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #48 on:** 16 August 2006, 10:58:24 »

That site gives a reasonable indication of how reliable the Vx aircon systems are.

Note that vaux are near the bottom of the top sellers list yet have a very large no of units sold.

VAG are near the top yet sell much fewer vehicles......

Nickbat · « **Reply #49 on:** 16 August 2006, 16:56:42 »

Getting towards the end of my tether now. Receiver/drier arrived, but no compressor seals. Phoned up and they told me that there are many different sizes and that I would need to go to the main agent. Phoned my local agent and they said they didn't know which ones I wanted and anyway they don't have any in stock.

Tried fitting the receiver/drier. Easy to get to union and dismantle, easy to get to the screws holding the unit in place, but bl***y impossible to remove the thing from the car. It's such an unwieldy object and evything seems to be in the way. The Haynes manual says remove the crossmember at the front of the engine. I could only find one crossmember underneath the car, which appeared to have only two bolts holding it. Undid them and got nowhere.. The unit seems to be welded to the rest of the chassis and coinnected to the tie bar etc. etc... In any event which way does the unit come out of the car? Haynes doesn't specify. Seems to me you have to remove the rad.

Put everything back together again, without achieving a thing except filthy hands. Getting bored and dispirited by this wretched car now. Want to see the back end of it, but can't afford to get a decent one.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #50 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:02:52 »

Lol....it slots into two grommit in the bottom cross member and is bolted to the rad.

You need to pop the rad out first...not to difficult to do.

nixoro · « **Reply #51 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:05:46 »

I noticed that the condenser that sits behind the radiator on mine has brackets which the rad are attached to couldn't you just remove the two bolts, as the rad is also held in place using the pinch clips.

Might be the same as yours, just a suggestion

Good Luck

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #52 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:10:00 »

The dryer is obscured by the rad.......so rad needs to be removed.

nixoro · « **Reply #53 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:21:52 »

Quote

The dryer is obscured by the rad.......so rad needs to be removed.

Ahhh fair enough.

Nickbat · « **Reply #54 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:23:13 »

Quote

Lol....it slots into two grommit in the bottom cross member and is bolted to the rad.

You need to pop the rad out first...not to difficult to do.

Thanks Mark. Now I'll need to hunt round for auto transmission cooler O rings as I think you need to disconnect the pipes if you take the rad out. O rings and seals are a real pain. No one wants to stock them as there's no profit to be made.

nixoro · « **Reply #55 on:** 16 August 2006, 17:33:15 »

With any luck you shouldn't have any problems finding the anti freeze for the refit, I guess that has to be one saving grace so to speak.

Good luck with your search.

Nickbat · « **Reply #56 on:** 17 August 2006, 00:24:31 »

OK, so after a Bruschetta and an American pizza, I'm feeling more like carrying on this battle. I'll take out the rad and get the receiver/dryer in. Not sure I'll get it done before the weekend, though. I'm booked to be take the other half and the kids to the seaside for the week...and I have my "day job" (lucky I work from home, eh?

BUT, my real problem is locating these compressor seals. I've scoured the net and no one seems to stock the two seals that fit on my ex-scrappie Delphi compressor. If anyone has any ideas where I can get them, please let me know.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #57 on:** 17 August 2006, 08:32:51 »

Pretty much any aircon supplier/fitter/garage keep them.

The dealer can also order them for you.

Nickbat · « **Reply #58 on:** 30 August 2006, 22:42:35 »

Been away with my bucket and spade for a week, and have returned to deal with the continuing saga.

Just before I went, I replaced the receiver/drier. I followed Marks DTM Calib's instructions and, as usual, he was spot on. Removing the rad made the job a doddle....well a time-consuming doddle at any rate.

So that just left me with the damn compressor seals. After I got back, I located an aircon company about 20 miles away that said they could replace the seals and regas for £85. Off I went, full of hope. It took them an age to get the bolt off the top of the compressor. In fact, I was the one who had to undo it as one of the two mechanics disappeared to do some tyres! Anyway, the remaining mechanic crawled under the car and reported that:

1) The old seals were "melted" onto the pipes

2) They couldn't shift the refrigerant pipes up high enough to get new seals in...
and:
3) They didn't actually have the right replacement seals. They think they are special GM seals which are part rubber/part metal. Can anyone confirm?

Fortunately, they didn't charge me, but I wasted about 4 hours of my day and I am back to square one again.

I'm tempted to just forget the aircon but, then again if I don't get it repaired and use it, the system will dry out.

Bloody thing is getting on my t*ts!

Kaycee · « **Reply #59 on:** 31 August 2006, 06:47:57 »

Hi
Just a point have yu tried taking out the switch for the heated window

News:

Author Topic: Back to square one... (Read 6055 times)

Nickbat

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STMO123

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