Topic: Head gasket fail or other root cause? (Read 4972 times)

nuttyknitter · « **on:** 22 March 2018, 13:44:02 »

Hello,

I inherited a lovely Vauxhall Omega 2.2 CD in January (52 plate) with 70 odd thousand miles on the clock. It has run fine for 1,600 miles but recently it had an amount of white steam coming from the exhaust and water being low in the water bottle which I assume is head gasket failure.

Since then, due to the large expense of head gasket repair, I decided to buy some K-Seal as recommended by a friend to see if this cured the issue. Remarkably, after a few days, no more steam out of the exhaust and the car inside the cabin is still warm as my friend said it might gum up the heater and be cold.

The car runs fine for about three miles from cold but after which then starts to run rough so I park up, and find if I release the pressure from the water bottle to let the air out, the car runs superb again for another few miles, but then I have to repeat the process. The car seems to be keeping the water in OK (apart from any bubbles popping out of the water bottle when I release the cap.

Needlessly to say I am only using if for short runs at the moment, but my question is, could there be an underlying "common to Omegas" root cause causing pressurisation which in turn blew the head gasket that is an easy fix? Or is it pretty much game over as my son would say?

As I say, very little to no steam now out of the exhaust, - just ike any other car I guess, and it runs fine for a few miles from cold.

Any help on things to check would be grateful.

Also some information in the picture after a 5 mile run in the car from cold.

Thank you.

tunnie · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 March 2018, 15:21:53 »

Quote from: nuttyknitter on 22 March 2018, 13:44:02

Since then, due to the large expense of head gasket repair, I decided to buy some K-Seal as recommended by a friend to see if this cured the issue. Remarkably, after a few days, no more steam out of the exhaust and the car inside the cabin is still warm as my friend said it might gum up the heater and be cold.

Oh dear

This has probably cause more issues, as it would silt up both the radiator and your heater matrix. You are now probably getting symptoms/issues as a result of the K-Seal, which will be complicating the matter.

4 pots can suffer HG problems if coolant maintenance is neglected, I'd start off by doing a pressure test on each cylinder.

Do you have one?

TheBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 March 2018, 17:04:40 »

What is the temperature gauge reading when its starts to "play up"

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 March 2018, 19:18:39 »

Quote

You are now probably getting symptoms/issues as a result of the K-Seal, which will be complicating the matter.

The symptoms (and temporary workaround of air release) were happening (and temporarily resolving) before I bought K-Seal, but I take your point, thank you. It was a calculated risk on my part. KSeal seems to have resolved the loss of coolant, but not the build of of air pressure which is why I think maybe its a blockage in the water system somewhere. Unless it had a gasket issue before I inherited it and the person before used something like Kseal to "fix" it?

Quote

I'd start off by doing a pressure test on each cylinder. Do you have one?

Unfortunately no, but I have a local garage who I guess can probably do it.

Quote

What is the temperature gauge reading when its starts to "play up"

85 degrees but i dont think its a temperature related trigger because it runs OK for 3 or 4 miles at that same temperature before I have to release the pressure again. So, time wise:

Starting from cold in the morning, with the engine and water dead cold, I drive about a mile and a half and the needle rises to 80degrees.

If I am stuck in traffic or go up hill it goes to 85. Then on straight runs, drops to 80. After about 3 or 4 miles you can feel the engine running rough / vibrating.

At which point I hop out, lift the bonnet, release the pressure from the water bottle until it stops hissing, tighten the top of the bottle and she is good at 80 or 85 degrees for another 3 or 4 mile after which I repeat the process. I drove from Manchester to Preston the other day, doing the above (so it took me a while, stopping in petrol stations and pub car parks but I got threwre in the end, and back, without any other issue, engine runs fine until it vibrates, then I release pressure and I'm good for a few short miles more.

I've never seen it go above 88 degrees or so.

It is as if something is preventing the water circulating somewhere around the system. Heater in the car is still nice and warm. Someone at work today said it might be a stuck theromostat that could have caused the head gasket to go and this could still be an issue as being the root cause. Is this right? Or could it be something else common fault?

If its hard to diagnose, do you think its worth taking it to local garage for a pressure test? If so, how much do you think they will charge me on average? Thank you.

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 March 2018, 19:48:09 »

Mine had a persistent leak from the bulkhead heater connections, along with a weap from the pipe from the radiator to the back of the engine... Pressurisation can come from a faulty tank, and most Omega coolant leaks can be attributed to the heater bypass valve.

Using K seal is a panic solution, not a calculated one.

Andy H · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 March 2018, 20:02:15 »

Steam from the exhaust, coolant loss and bubbles in the header tank are unfortunately all classic symptoms of head gasket failure

I fear that the KSeal has had some effect in that it has reduced the flow of coolant into a combustion chamber(s) but it has not been able to prevent exhaust gases being forced the other way $:-\$

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 March 2018, 08:53:34 »

Parts wise it’s a cheap enough job.

A top end gasket kit is £34. You’d need antifreeze, oil, filters and a few consumables on top but easily get change from £100.

I used to be able to do the 2.2 head gasket in a day - now, realistically, with my injuries it would take me a weekend or so.

I’d happily do it, no cost to you, but don’t have any availability for a couple of weeks or so

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 March 2018, 09:01:18 »

I should mention, it’s worth replacing the cambelt kit and water pump while it’s all apart

deviator · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 March 2018, 09:02:12 »

Quote from: JamesV6CDX on 23 March 2018, 08:53:34

I’d happily do it, no cost to you, but don’t have any availability for a couple of weeks or so

Sir you are a legend

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 March 2018, 09:20:04 »

Quote

I drove from Manchester to Preston the other day, doing the above (so it took me a while, stopping in petrol stations and pub car parks but I got threwre in the end

Not wanting to be a spoil sport, and I understand sometimes needs must, but if you keep driving it
You risk further damage and reduce my chances of successful repair

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 March 2018, 08:33:48 »

Thank you for your kind offer James.
I would have replied yesterday evening but hubby's uncle got admitted to hospital on Thursday night with suspected heart attack so yesterday evening was unexpectedly busy. Thank you also for your PM.
I've also had a previous PM from another member who has given me some advice which I will do this weekend in flushing the system and also hubby knows a mechanic at work who lives local who may also be able to help.
I will keep you all posted on progress soon and may take you up on the offer if my hubby's friend has taken a look and says he is unable to resolve.

I have some receipts that came with the car and the timing belt, pump and tensioners were changed last October (1000 miles before I inherited the car) and I did notice that the water in the bottle was a very bright pink so I am assuming that when they changed the timing belt they overdid the antifreeze which may then have caused the issue if I read the posts above correctly.

Anyway, I will keep you all posted on progress.

Thank you all.

TheBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 March 2018, 09:37:22 »

Too strong antifreeze would not cause issues, beyond cost. Too weak does cause issues, as the inhibitors in the antifreeze are there to protect the engine and its gaskets - which is why antifreeze is still needed in hot climates.

As has been stated, if the HG is suspect, avoid using car whenever possible, until fault has been found, and if it is HG, avoid using until rectified, else you may need to end head off for machining.

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 March 2018, 10:33:36 »

Sorry to hear of your bad news.

To discuss contact details / logistics of something, then of course, but I find it odd a member would pm with advice on flushing your coolant system. The whole ethos of a forum is public discussion and sharing knowledge, and that isn’t exactly a confidential subject.

Oh hang on. Just spotted the pink gender icon

(for avoidance of doubt, I am playing)

The cambelt kit fitting however recent it was is meaningless if the water pump wasn’t also replaced.

Good luck with it. But it’s going to be the HG. They’re prone to it. There’s little to look at, investigatively, In all honest, other than perhaps a header tank sniffer test. It needs to come apart.

Good luck with the mechanic / repairs

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 March 2018, 10:36:10 »

Speaking of which. Can you smell exhaust fumes or a petrol like smell in the coolant tank?

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 March 2018, 17:43:46 »

Thanks James and all.

Yes pump was changed too. It mentions pump, belt and tensioners all changed on the receipt that came with the car paperwork.

When steam (lots of it) was coming out of the exhaust there was a rich chemically petrol-ish type smell from the water, but now there's no steam coming out of the exhaust I cant really smell anything from the water bottle, albeit there is just mainly water in there now and what little antifreeze I had left in the garage. I will not run the car again until after hubby and friend have tackled it and will also ensure the correct level of antifreeze is put in.

Here's hoping!

Thank you again all for your help and suggestions.

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 March 2018, 17:48:33 »

Quote from: nuttyknitter on 24 March 2018, 17:43:46

Thanks James and all.

Yes pump was changed too. It mentions pump, belt and tensioners all changed on the receipt that came with the car paperwork.

When steam (lots of it) was coming out of the exhaust there was a rich chemically petrol-ish type smell from the water, but now there's no steam coming out of the exhaust I cant really smell anything from the water bottle, albeit there is just mainly water in there now and what little antifreeze I had left in the garage. I will not run the car again until after hubby and friend have tackled it and will also ensure the correct level of antifreeze is put in.

Here's hoping!

Thank you again all for your help and suggestions.

When you say tackled it, what are you referring to?

And when you say here’s hoping, what are you hoping for?

Your head gasket has categorically failed. It won’t replace itself

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 March 2018, 20:09:35 »

I do hope that nuttyknitter comes back and updates us with the findings, on this

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 July 2018, 12:23:54 »

Hello.

Just a quick update on how it went. Its been three months but that's because we've had other things to sort out house, job and work wise.

So, we got the gasket replaced with the odd hours here and there gradually over the last three months. Its been an excellent learning curve. Confident of doing another HG replacement in future (although God forbid not needed!)

It looks lke the main leak was at the back right of the head - and funnily enough the CH bolt at that back corner was the easiest to undo with the bar so was probably not torqued up in the first place I guess.

Since buttoning it all back up two weeks ago, it has since done over two hundred miles without any loss of coolant or oil. Coolant smells as it should and oil looks as it should.

Took the opportunity to clear out all the breather pipes, idle valve and also tested the thermostat. All good.

It is running fine. Takes about 10 mins to get up to 85 degrees then temp fluctuates between 85 on straight runs and 88-90 if stuck in traffic so all good. No back pressure and water loss from expansion tank like there was previously. No white steam whatsoever out of the exhaust. Touch wood she'll be good for ages now.

Washed the car whilst it rained this morning.

I'll post some pics later today of what we took whilst doing it.

Thank you again for all your messages and help offers.

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 July 2018, 12:38:01 »

Doctor Gollum · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 July 2018, 16:03:15 »

At that warm up time and temp, you need a new thermostat...

Job done good though

Carfix · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 July 2018, 17:54:57 »

Well done and great pictures

Your boot looks like mine!!

BazaJT · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 July 2018, 20:44:43 »

Even if as DG says[and I'm not doubting his word-he knows more about it than I do]you need a new thermostat[got to be easier to change than on my V6 surely?]looks like a good job well done and I'm glad you've got it sorted.

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 July 2018, 21:17:59 »

Thank you all. I have ordered a new thermostat from eurocarparts for £14 using JULY70 offer code, normally £20.

Collecting tomorrow and will fit tomorrow evening. Only a couple of spring clamps and star bolts and easy to get to.

It was one of the easiest things to take off / refit.

Thank you again.

Raeturbo · « **Reply #23 on:** 29 July 2018, 21:35:00 »

You will be happy these engines are bulletproof.

henryd · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 July 2018, 08:24:43 »

Nice pictures and well done,think I would have had head skimmed as well to be sure but glad all is well

nuttyknitter · « **Reply #25 on:** 01 September 2018, 15:03:34 »

Thank you. Well, it survived our holidays going to the West Country for a couple of weeks and towing a trailer full of bits and pieces here and there.

Its now done 1700 miles since the HG and thermostat change and not a drop of oil or coolant lost.

Hopefully it will continue to be happy.

Cheers!

TheBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** 01 September 2018, 18:25:49 »

Quote from: nuttyknitter on 01 September 2018, 15:03:34

Thank you. Well, it survived our holidays going to the West Country for a couple of weeks and towing a trailer full of bits and pieces here and there.

Its now done 1700 miles since the HG and thermostat change and not a drop of oil or coolant lost.

Hopefully it will continue to be happy.

Cheers!

Sounds like another success story, happy days

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Author Topic: Head gasket fail or other root cause? (Read 4972 times)