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[Webby the Bear]

Hmmm interesting. I agree with both.  . .

The thing is I've kinda had it in my mind that under normal braking brakes don't fade. My understanding was this was only brought on by heavy braking...

I suppose it again depends on what you class as normal braking as I've never had an instance where I've felt brakes have gone off 

[05omegav6]

Really not trying then Mr Bear

[Webby the Bear]

Really not trying then Mr Bear

Clearly 

[chrisgixer]

All things are relative. If omega brakes where the first ever invented they'd be the best ever.

...and what's normal driving for one, isn't normal for another.  Define normal driving...?

If TB gets in the car with Tunnie driving he'd(TB) go spare with impatience and boredom. Likewise if TB was driving Tunnie would find his driving impatient and ott. I suspect.

[Entwood]

Hmmm interesting. I agree with both.  . .

The thing is I've kinda had it in my mind that under normal braking brakes don't fade. My understanding was this was only brought on by heavy braking...

I suppose it again depends on what you class as normal braking as I've never had an instance where I've felt brakes have gone off 

Brakes fade when they have reached a temperature at which they are so hot they cannot absorb any more.... they cannot absorb energy which is how they work, by turning the kinetic energy of the car into heat (by friction).

Heat will get into the brakes either by several highspeed/lowspeed stops in succession when the brakes don't cool between applications, or by a continuous steady braking over an extended time, when the brakes never cool at all.

First scenario is the sprinting from roundabout to roundabout at max speed with late braking to get around .... second is a very long descent down a steep hill without using the gearbox to assist ... both can cause trouble .. eventually ...

IMHO the brakes are not "shit", they are sufficient for the design of the car .. a long distance motorway(autobahn) cruiser. The "progressive" nature of the brakes being there to comfort the luxury passenger. If required in an emergency .. they work and work well.

I have done many, many miles in the 2 tonne barge, with a further tonne and a half strapped to the back. I have cruised at 70 (ish) on motorways, pressed on on back roads, and done a lot of long downhill sections in that time... and I've NEVER had brake fade .. probably because I think ahead and try and have some sympathy with the brakes .. which does NOT mean doing 25 everywhere !!  it means not hammering the brakes when not needed.

Now, if the brakes are not good enough for the driving style of some .. then fine ..upgrade them, but to disparage them out of hand, simply because they don't suit YOU... is wrong IMHO.

A little "mechanical sympathy" goes an awful long way  .....   

[chrisgixer]

Agree Nige, but it's not just me. Despite what's said here.

[05omegav6]

 I readily subscribe the mechanical sympathy way of thinking...

Brake pads and discs are a hell of alot cheaper than clutches and gearboxes

[chrisgixer]

Agree Nige, but it's not just me. Despite what's said here.

Put another way, what works for one, or one group, doesn't mean it works for all.

I'd suggest embracing improvement, instead of denying it. Tbh.

Poly donuts for instance. Poly front wbone bushes. Etc etc. not for everyone, but those that want, CAN.

Don't ever stand in the way of progress. Ever. (Assuming its genuine progress of course, time will tell on that front.) its part of the process, first you find your weakness, and fix it.
First
Handling, improved. Polys etc. better tyres, set up.

Second
stopping. As discussed.

Third
Going, bigger lump. But only once one and two are sorted.

Take or leave as applicable. You all know your needs.

[Andy B]

....
Without doubt, if the car was designed today, it would carry bigger discs.

The car would have a more fashionably bigger wheel rim to fit bigger discs/calipers inside of. Don't forget that the Omega originally had 15" rims (some had the old Senator 15" X spoke BBS type rims on)

Brake fade is normal in any car. Never had a vehicle that hasn't suffered it.

Remind me to never be your passenger 

[05omegav6]

He's not that scary, a bit nervewracking the first time you're a passenger in you're own car with TB driving...

But he's only driven my car for tyre and suspension assessments

[Rods2]

Is the airflow around the front brakes good enough or would improved ducting make a big difference?

[05omegav6]

Currently has 18" wheels on, so about 2" clear radius around the disc

Irmscher front bumper is deeper and better vented than standard too...

[chrisgixer]

Is the airflow around the front brakes good enough or would improved ducting make a big difference?

Don't know.

Never played with ducting. But always presumed it to be minimal, and shaping ducting round components without fouling within the wheel housing so it directs air through the wheel through its entire steering axis....

Not sure but the area behind the wheel liner is solid chassis rail iirc. So is it a case of coming through from the front end of the liner but around the wheel when its turned in fully. Then over the top of the wishbone.

I'd guess it involves a bespoke moulded plastic duct with a flexi hose section in the middle to allow for suspension movement.

Plus, if running ebc red pads these work better hot, or at least with some heat in them, so depends on set up.

Certainly there is minimal allowance for it as standard afaict.
Maybe something that's been made for another car could be made to fit.

But that still leaves the actual power of the brakes themselves to deal with. Disc diameter increase also gives better leverage on the wheel. Nearer the outer diameter the easier it is to stop the wheel. Bigger swept area gives more contact for the pad, and both divide the same energy over a bigger area. Add more pistons, gives more power and spreads the heat over 4 or 6 pistons as opposed to the omegas 1, although its effectively a pair, a single piston keeps heat away from the fluid more than a pair but...


Bah, I'm rambling now. Sorry, just thinking aloud.

[05omegav6]

Guess you could bin the sl pump and move the horns, then trim the bottom half of the wheel arch liner

Immediate issue with that is the fact that the bottom trailing edge of the bumper is secured to the arch liner...

[chrisgixer]

Your a Biker Rods?

Ever noticed how hard the rear brake has to be pressed to get it to do anything, then it gets to a certain point and it just locks up. Totally useless in all but the most basic use. Like holding it in a hill while you put your gloves on...?

Well same here, increase the disc diameter and you get all the power back that the front brake has. Ask Niki Hayden, almost doubled the size of his rear brake on his race bikes in search of better control, although that was his personal choice and another story entirely.

But the logic, as I'm sure I dont need to feed to you all, but I'm rambling so opps it is, increase the disc and calliper size, you get the power and fix the heat proportionately as well into the bargain.

If there's no more room in the wheel, then obviously ducting is all that's left. I guess.

Sorry if that's all abit obvious, I was off on one and couldn't stop. lol