Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Search the maintenance guides for answers to 99.999% of Omega questions

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: British Steel  (Read 3884 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Varche

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • middle of Andalucia
  • Posts: 13622
  • What is going to break next?
    • Golf Estate
    • View Profile
British Steel
« on: 21 May 2019, 22:19:26 »

Should they be government supported?

Two interesting facts.

China has produced more steel in the last 23 months than Britain has since it started in the industrial revolution.

British steel is an efficient outfit.

A question. If Britain loses its steel making capability due to China undercutting, how do you make weaponry in the event of the next war? Buy the steel in from China?
Logged
The biggest joke on mankind is that computers have started asking humans to prove that they aren’t a robot.

Sir Tigger KC

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Dorset
  • Posts: 23427
    • 2 Fords
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #1 on: 22 May 2019, 01:29:59 »

It'll be painted as a victim of BREXIT, but isn't the cost of EU carbon credits also a factor?  ???

If so, given that we have one of the cleanest economies in the world, where's the sense in letting it fail and then importing steel from dirty economies like China etc?  :-\  ???

Also as Varche points out, it's a strategic industry so should be helped out, but wait that's against EU law!  :o  and as we're destined to become a province of the USE there is no need for steel production in the UK as the state planners have already decreed that the USE's steel production will take place in Romania.  ;)

Logged
RIP Paul 'Luvvie' Lovejoy

Politically homeless ......

BazaJT

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • SLady bitshorpe N.Lincs.
  • Posts: 9086
    • Omega 3 litre Elite
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #2 on: 22 May 2019, 07:59:59 »

As with many large industries it is not just the "headline" job loss figures but also the number of other jobs/businesses that support/are supported by British Steel.Whether this makes the case for government support/nationalization or not I'll leave for those cleverer than I to decide.Back in the '70s there was a"rush" to buy Russian steel because it was cheaper but was then found to be a very inferior product.Chinese steel may[or may not] now be on a par with British steel for quality whilst being cheaper,but if one country can kill the industry of another by flooding it with a cheaper product then what happens when country 1 has country 2 over a barrel and can dictate price/supply at will?
Logged

Olympia5776

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Ireland
  • Posts: 2135
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #3 on: 22 May 2019, 09:14:31 »

A complex and difficult conundrum.
Irrespective of our vote to leave the EU my head says that we should maintain the strategic ability to produce steel for our own needs.
With Port Talbot being in a precarious state too it's a problem that will need addressing soon.
It's a classic example of the EU shadow having a long term effect on the base infrastructure of a member country by means of directional subsidies or preferential decisions .
The importation of lower cost Chinese ,or other foreign produced , steel is also something that is difficult to control in this day of international trade and with the still hoped for democratically decided Brexit  ;) makes that even more arduous.
However , I trained as an Instrument Engineer at Ravenscraig Steel Works in Lanarkshire and seen the cavalier financial attitude that was enjoyed by both management and workers at that plant in the 70's and 80's when the nationalised money tree was in fruit.
That plant, and the ten others in the area closed for the correct reasons ,being built inland instead of on the coast , but the effect it had on the economy of the region was devastating and still being felt today .
I guess it's down to the value that a country places on it's free standing ability in the world.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2019, 09:23:22 by Olympia5776 »
Logged

tunnie

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Surrey
  • Posts: 37511
    • Zafira Tourer & BMW 435i
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #4 on: 22 May 2019, 09:46:15 »

Should they be government supported?

Two interesting facts.

China has produced more steel in the last 23 months than Britain has since it started in the industrial revolution.

British steel is an efficient outfit.

A question. If Britain loses its steel making capability due to China undercutting, how do you make weaponry in the event of the next war? Buy the steel in from China?

Wow!  :o :o
Logged

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: British Steel
« Reply #5 on: 22 May 2019, 11:09:51 »

A complex and difficult conundrum.
Irrespective of our vote to leave the EU my head says that we should maintain the strategic ability to produce steel for our own needs.
With Port Talbot being in a precarious state too it's a problem that will need addressing soon.
It's a classic example of the EU shadow having a long term effect on the base infrastructure of a member country by means of directional subsidies or preferential decisions .
The importation of lower cost Chinese ,or other foreign produced , steel is also something that is difficult to control in this day of international trade and with the still hoped for democratically decided Brexit  ;) makes that even more arduous.
However , I trained as an Instrument Engineer at Ravenscraig Steel Works in Lanarkshire and seen the cavalier financial attitude that was enjoyed by both management and workers at that plant in the 70's and 80's when the nationalised money tree was in fruit.
That plant, and the ten others in the area closed for the correct reasons ,being built inland instead of on the coast , but the effect it had on the economy of the region was devastating and still being felt today .
I guess it's down to the value that a country places on it's free standing ability in the world.
It's not just a case of keeping a steel production capability, Don, it's a case of making it competitive. Even British companies will buy Chinese steel if its half the price of home produced stuff.
Personally, if I was in government and so minded, I would subsidise them to the hilt, and f**k the EU. But our government would have to grow a spine first.
Logged

Migalot

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • London
  • Posts: 732
    • Omega 2.6 2002
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #6 on: 22 May 2019, 11:21:14 »

Government assistance to British Steel is against EU law.

Another good reason to leave.
Logged

Varche

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • middle of Andalucia
  • Posts: 13622
  • What is going to break next?
    • Golf Estate
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #7 on: 22 May 2019, 12:08:34 »

Does the EU allow renationalisation as per Corbyn?

The business secretary is going to give us an update later today.
Logged
The biggest joke on mankind is that computers have started asking humans to prove that they aren’t a robot.

Migalot

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • London
  • Posts: 732
    • Omega 2.6 2002
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #8 on: 22 May 2019, 13:04:44 »

Does the EU allow renationalisation as per Corbyn?

The business secretary is going to give us an update later today.

Nope.

Always amuses me when Labour Remainers talk about Labour plans to renationalise this, that and the other. Are they that thick? (no need to answer!  ::) )
Logged

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: British Steel
« Reply #9 on: 22 May 2019, 13:06:01 »

On the news now, it's gone into administration.
Logged

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 105839
  • I Like Lockdown
    • Whatever Starts
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #10 on: 22 May 2019, 17:56:26 »

It'll be painted as a victim of BREXIT
Its what "we" voted for.

Every man and his dog could see that coming.  We've effectively shut off a sizeable chunk of their market, by making it uncompetitive.  And it absolutely, most definitely will not be the last of the British Manufacturing sector to die. Plain simple economics, so simple even I can grasp it, makes that a certainty.

In the case of British Steel, nobody from Europe was going to place orders, for fear that by the time it was delivered, it'd be slapped with an extra tariff.  And investors could see the only ever outcome, so stopped investing.  This comes as no surprise to absolutely anyone.

But is what "we" wanted.
Logged
Grumpy old man

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 39446
    • ML350 TDM SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #11 on: 22 May 2019, 18:08:45 »

Should they be government supported?

Two interesting facts.

China has produced more steel in the last 23 months than Britain has since it started in the industrial revolution.

British steel is an efficient outfit.

 ....

Wow!  :o :o

That's what I thought too when I heard it on the radio earlier today ....
Logged

Lizzie Zoom

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • South
  • Posts: 7370
    • Omega 3.2 V6 ELITE 2003
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2019, 18:20:57 »

IT is sad, and I would love to have seen the days when British steel production, was fed by British coal, and that steel went to the numerous British ship yards to build British ships.

But after 1900 that boat started to leave port as Germany took over as the key industrial power, quickly followed by the rise of the USA as a superpower during their American century.

That then degenerated into what we see today, with the likes of China out producing everyone and providing quality steel at lower prices than most.

Like the coal mines, and shipbuilding, for the British they are "past" industries as the expertise now lies in high tech industries. The reason why this has happened I think is clear for all to see; there is no profit to be made in those industries as the British workforce, rightly, expect good, liveable wages,being earnt in healthy environments and not down a stinking hot pit nor in very hot and dangerous conditions that exist in a steel works.

During the 1960's and 1970' British governments threw huge amounts of money at those past industries , but even the Labour Party learnt to realise is was good money after bad as coal, steel, shipbuilding and even car production (in the old 1970' style) could never make a profit again.

I just cannot see how any government now can justify keeping British Steel going.  Even that company only a short time ago paid just £1 for the business at SLady bitshorpe, which reflected the fact the business was not viable and in a desperate situation. If Tata steel, or someone else can keep it all going, great.  But it must be a commercial decision, not a political one that will result in the British public paying a fortune for a non-viable business as happened in the past.  That money should go to other worthy causes, such as full support given to the steel workers who lose their jobs, including retraining for the younger ones, and a nice retirement package for the older ones if they want it.

As for our need to get steel in the time of war, well the USA could supply it, but frankly in any full blown World grade conflict there will be no time to worry about steel for tanks, ships, etc. If we survive the first few days, it will be as a result of using missles built in high tech factories with aluminium.

 ;)

Why is it that when I typed the name of the steel works, Sc--thorpe, lady bits came up??!! ::) ::) ::) :o :o :D ;)
« Last Edit: 22 May 2019, 18:26:07 by Lizzie Zoom »
Logged

Alnico Blue

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Costa del 'Saffend
  • Posts: 472
    • 2001 2.6 CDX estate
    • View Profile
Re: British Steel
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2019, 19:32:54 »

Should they be government supported?

Two interesting facts.

China has produced more steel in the last 23 months than Britain has since it started in the industrial revolution.

British steel is an efficient outfit.

A question. If Britain loses its steel making capability due to China undercutting, how do you make weaponry in the event of the next war? Buy the steel in from China?

Where did that "fact "come from  . . .seems wildly inaccurate . . .thats a lotta steel :o
« Last Edit: 22 May 2019, 19:35:11 by Alnico Blue »
Logged
British made Celestion Alnico Blue = best sounding guitar speaker ever, sadly now made in China

STEMO

  • Guest
Re: British Steel
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2019, 19:37:26 »

Should they be government supported?

Two interesting facts.

China has produced more steel in the last 23 months than Britain has since it started in the industrial revolution.

British steel is an efficient outfit.

A question. If Britain loses its steel making capability due to China undercutting, how do you make weaponry in the event of the next war? Buy the steel in from China?

Where did that "fact "come from  . . .seems wildly inaccurate . . .thats a lotta steel :o
There's a lot of Chinese, Al. ;D
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 21 queries.