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[aaronjb]

WTF is wrong with modern bulbsdrivers?

I don't think it's the bulbs.. it's the dipsticks behind the wheel..

[ted_one]

Seems to be a bit of theme of knocking older drivers on here and yes you do get the odd one here and there that does get in the way because of their failing abilities.But in general it's the younger drivers that are arrogant,impatient and drive far to fast to allow their own one brain cell to cope...statistics have and will continue to prove that! 
Also I'm out at 5am every day and sorry,but it ain't the oldies that are out there running reds because there's no one around to catch the offenders or the self proclaimed ''I'm a really good driver'' ragging it through the 30 limit at double that, and then add too that, poor lane discipline,poor planning,poor anticipation  and general lack of awareness and of course that general F**K YOU! attitude that prevails from a vast number of clueless younger drivers, who in turn blame everything on to everyone else... see it every day,so I say ''yeah whatever'' BUT how come younger drivers pay hundreds of pounds more than us 'mature drivers'.....could it be those statistics? mind you they are probably regarded as wrong by a certain group of drivers as well

[aaronjb]

Ah, statistics. What is it they say about statistics?

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

A quote which, like statistics, appears to have been liberally interpreted for purposes to suit the author (Mark Twain, in this case)

"73.6% of all statistics on the Internet are made up." - Albert Einstein.


There is shocking driving demonstrated daily on my commute by people of all ages, colours and, no doubt, religions.  Sometimes even by me, I'm sure.  It seems to be the one universal truth..

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I'm an older driver I suppose, at 57. Most of the problem drivers I encounter these days are mostly female drivers, and to a lesser extent really elderly drivers.
I can be tolerant of the elderly drivers, as the world and its roads have changed drastically since they were ambling along country roads in the 50,s. Quite a few of the female drivers seem to fall into two categories though. The younger ones who buy into the laddish culture and carry this into their driving by trying to be more aggressive and thoughtless than they perceive male drivers to be.
These are now the 30 something school run mums, who scream the F and C words at me, (with their kids sat in the rear seats) when they get a blast of the horn, due to the fact they have just come very close to killing me, at a dangerous junction a couple of miles from where I live.
Then theres the middle aged respectable ladies who will not go anywhere near the posted speed limit, or have any curiosity about where the limits of their car might be.
They drive their Micra in exactly the same way as they drove their Datsun cherry.
As mentioned before, this would be fine, if only they kept an eye on their rear view mirror and used some consideration for the line of traffic which builds up behind them.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Ah, statistics. What is it they say about statistics?

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

A quote which, like statistics, appears to have been liberally interpreted for purposes to suit the author (Mark Twain, in this case)

"73.6% of all statistics on the Internet are made up." - Albert Einstein.


There is shocking driving demonstrated daily on my commute by people of all ages, colours and, no doubt, religions.  Sometimes even by me, I'm sure.  It seems to be the one universal truth..

 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm an older driver I suppose, at 57. Most of the problem drivers I encounter these days are mostly female drivers, and to a lesser extent really elderly drivers.
I can be tolerant of the elderly drivers, as the world and its roads have changed drastically since they were ambling along country roads in the 50,s. Quite a few of the female drivers seem to fall into two categories though. The younger ones who buy into the laddish culture and carry this into their driving by trying to be more aggressive and thoughtless than they perceive male drivers to be.
These are now the 30 something school run mums, who scream the F and C words at me, (with their kids sat in the rear seats) when they get a blast of the horn, due to the fact they have just come very close to killing me, at a dangerous junction a couple of miles from where I live.
Then theres the middle aged respectable ladies who will not go anywhere near the posted speed limit, or have any curiosity about where the limits of their car might be.
They drive their Micra in exactly the same way as they drove their Datsun cherry.
As mentioned before, this would be fine, if only they kept an eye on their rear view mirror and used some consideration for the line of traffic which builds up behind them.

When I was growing up in the sixties if women had to drive it was always in a nice little 'runabout'

I can remember being picked up from school in a variety of very unassuming little cars such as 
a Hillman Imp and Austin A30. I don't recall the speedo needle wavering much past 30 MPH and to these women the car was merely a form of transport.

[YZ250]

I was always taught that the speed limit was a "LIMIT"  ..not a "TARGET" ... 

Definitely a target, it's actually a failure/points against in a driving test. 

If someone is of the opinion that the "safe" speed to be driving is 10 miles below the limit, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and no-one has any "duty" to drive at the speed "YOU" want to go at.

They'd fail a retest by doing that but if they are happy to pull in to a layby every few minutes to let people pass then I'm cool with that. 

[YZ250]

This made me laugh apart from the danger. What a nutter.

http://spanishnewstoday.com/sparks-fly-as-girona-woman-drives-28-km-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-motorway-with-a-wheel-missing_82858-a.html?region=3#leftcol

Back on track  , there doesn't appear to be much wheel left.     From a safety point of view it must have been a safe journey as it doesn't mention anything about her speeding. 

[Shackeng]

I was always taught that the speed limit was a "LIMIT"  ..not a "TARGET" ... 

Definitely a target, it's actually a failure/points against in a driving test. 

If someone is of the opinion that the "safe" speed to be driving is 10 miles below the limit, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and no-one has any "duty" to drive at the speed "YOU" want to go at.

They'd fail a retest by doing that but if they are happy to pull in to a layby every few minutes to let people pass then I'm cool with that. 

I am amazed to read that, so I assume you are saying that testees have to drive at the posted speed limit, or they will fail? 

[YZ250]

I was always taught that the speed limit was a "LIMIT"  ..not a "TARGET" ... 

Definitely a target, it's actually a failure/points against in a driving test. 

If someone is of the opinion that the "safe" speed to be driving is 10 miles below the limit, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and no-one has any "duty" to drive at the speed "YOU" want to go at.

They'd fail a retest by doing that but if they are happy to pull in to a layby every few minutes to let people pass then I'm cool with that. 

I am amazed to read that, so I assume you are saying that testees have to drive at the posted speed limit, or they will fail? 

Close'ish to the speed limit if safe to do so. 
It's usually included as an accumulation of points with other minor errors but 'failing to make progress' is a failure on its own. A member of our family failed their first test for that very reason. It shows a lack of confidence and causes other drivers to adjust their speed, so it is deemed that they are not ready to be let loose amongst other drivers. 

[Entwood]

I was always taught that the speed limit was a "LIMIT"  ..not a "TARGET" ... 

Definitely a target, it's actually a failure/points against in a driving test. 

If someone is of the opinion that the "safe" speed to be driving is 10 miles below the limit, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and no-one has any "duty" to drive at the speed "YOU" want to go at.

They'd fail a retest by doing that but if they are happy to pull in to a layby every few minutes to let people pass then I'm cool with that. 

Somewhat inaccurate and, possibly deliberate distortion of the truth ?? The requirement of the driving test, at least in all 4 that I've done over the years .. bike, car, HGV, PSV, is to "make progress given the road conditions" ... this means .. where feasible, to drive at the speed limit, it does not mean "maintain the speed limit regardless".

When taking my HGV test I deliberately did NOT accelerate to the speed limit when it changed from 30 to 40 as I knew the road then became a downhill section with a roundabout at the bottom, and it had started to rain. My reasoning was rain on a previously dry surface, downhill, having to brake in a vehicle weighing over 10 tonnes empty, made it a dangerous manoeuvre. I guess the instructor agreed as I passed the test.

When taking the "bus" test it was common NOT to reach the 50mph speed limit on one dual carriageway as there were bus-stops every few hundred yards and you never knew when the examiner would ring the bell.

Again, I passed, so it would appear to be the correct way of driving .... a LIMIT ..depending on conditions NOT a TARGET .. to be hit at all times 

All the posts above (not counting the "wrong lane" idiots - another story completely) simply assume the "slower" driver is useless .. perhaps they actually have a REASON for driving slowly, have they seen a dog/child/cyclist that you haven't ?? Have they "read the road" differently to you and don't wish to slam on the anchors at the upcoming hazard ?? Lots of very good reasons for not blindly driving at (or above) the speed limit that it would appear many drivers don't consider .. because.. after all, everyone is the best driver in the world .. aren't you ??   

[Andy B]

... it does not mean "maintain the speed limit regardless".
 ...

Alan never said that. His words were "Close'ish to the speed limit if safe to do so."

[YZ250]

I was always taught that the speed limit was a "LIMIT"  ..not a "TARGET" ... 

Definitely a target, it's actually a failure/points against in a driving test. 

If someone is of the opinion that the "safe" speed to be driving is 10 miles below the limit, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and no-one has any "duty" to drive at the speed "YOU" want to go at.

They'd fail a retest by doing that but if they are happy to pull in to a layby every few minutes to let people pass then I'm cool with that. 

Somewhat inaccurate and, possibly deliberate distortion of the truth ?? The requirement of the driving test, at least in all 4 that I've done over the years .. bike, car, HGV, PSV, is to "make progress given the road conditions" ... this means .. where feasible, to drive at the speed limit, it does not mean "maintain the speed limit regardless".

When taking my HGV test I deliberately did NOT accelerate to the speed limit when it changed from 30 to 40 as I knew the road then became a downhill section with a roundabout at the bottom, and it had started to rain. My reasoning was rain on a previously dry surface, downhill, having to brake in a vehicle weighing over 10 tonnes empty, made it a dangerous manoeuvre. I guess the instructor agreed as I passed the test.

When taking the "bus" test it was common NOT to reach the 50mph speed limit on one dual carriageway as there were bus-stops every few hundred yards and you never knew when the examiner would ring the bell.

Again, I passed, so it would appear to be the correct way of driving .... a LIMIT ..depending on conditions NOT a TARGET .. to be hit at all times 

All the posts above (not counting the "wrong lane" idiots - another story completely) simply assume the "slower" driver is useless .. perhaps they actually have a REASON for driving slowly, have they seen a dog/child/cyclist that you haven't ?? Have they "read the road" differently to you and don't wish to slam on the anchors at the upcoming hazard ?? Lots of very good reasons for not blindly driving at (or above) the speed limit that it would appear many drivers don't consider .. because.. after all, everyone is the best driver in the world .. aren't you ??   

I did say where safe to do so when I answered Shackeng.    I agree with what you are saying regarding the other bits but just for now can we assume that all is good visibility wise and traffic wise. Is 'failing to make progress' , where appropriate, during a test a failure ? 

... it does not mean "maintain the speed limit regardless".
 ...

Alan never said that. His words were "Close'ish to the speed limit if safe to do so."

Cheers Andy.    I'm not sure if Nige had read my later reply. 

[Andy B]

...
All the posts above  ... simply assume the "slower" driver is useless ..  ....

A fair assessment in most of the above.

Another time I overtook a V12 Merc doing barely 40 in a 60 in my diseasal Astra ... day light, dry etc & got flashed at for doing so    Silly old bint!

[STEMO]

Give it up, Nigel. In my case, we're talking six miles of clear road without a dog or child in sight. It's very feasible to travel at the speed limit, but some are just not capable, due to the fact that they should have handed their licences in years ago.
I'm not say that all of these drivers are bad drivers, so it is unreasonable for you to try to excuse them all.

The only thing that's going to sort this out is a compulsory driving test at 70 and every three years after. Not a full test, but some kind of competency test. It won't, of course, happen, so me and my ilk will just have to keep on moaning until I, too, become a mobile roadblock.