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[STEMO]

I know that these numbers are mainly guesstimates, most financial predictions are, but Jeez they are scary. Some of the snippets thrown into the mix are surprising too, "cautious shoppers will continue social distancing until mid 2021" 
I'm a bit wary of a 15% bounce back next year too.

Bank of England warns of deepest recession on record https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52566030

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Scary stuff. I suppose the silver lining is that there should be plenty of bargains for those still in work.

[STEMO]

Scary stuff. I suppose the silver lining is that there should be plenty of bargains for those still in work.

As long as it's delivered to your door.

[Rangie]

Need a new TV so will wait a while definitely.😃

[Doctor Gollum]

Technically it's a suppression as it's been a considered course of action rather than natural market forces.

But if Batflu is what it takes to have a bit of a rethink, then it's actually not a bad thing. Adapt or die and all that

Anyone trying to cash out investments 'because their pension pots are in the toilet' are going to be kicking themselves in a few months when the markets recover.

[Doctor Gollum]

Need a new TV so will wait a while definitely.😃

Horlicks. Complete and utter. 

If you have the spare cash and fancy one, buy it.

Just don't expect them to put it in the living room and plug it in for you

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well the post WW2 UK debt was £21 billion, and it took until 2006 until all debts had been paid off.

So, whatever the final UK debt figure that has been amassed at the end of all this, will take a long time to clear again, and I am sure we will go through a period of austerity as the British did after WW2 that I was still seeing as a child in the late 1950's, but how long it will last, who knows!

[dave the builder]

I was about to say....

companies and people will need to adapt to a brave new world

I think we will see much innovation and a return to "Made  in Britain"

That's once people are confident enough to emerge from their bunkers 

[STEMO]

Well the post WW2 UK debt was £21 billion, and it took until 2006 until all debts had been paid off.

So, whatever the final UK debt figure that has been amassed at the end of all this, will take a long time to clear again, and I am sure we will go through a period of austerity as the British did after WW2 that I was still seeing as a child in the late 1950's, but how long it will last, who knows!

The 'national debt' will never be cleared, Lizzie, it's just a number, and it seems to bear no relation as to how a country is considered credit worthy or not. Some countries are in a better position than others. We, unlike the Eurozone, are able to print money. This usually leads to high inflation somewhere down the road, but that's a problem for another day. (Governments have been working this way for decades. The next parliament can sort it out).

[STEMO]

The Americans are going to end up with trillions of dollars of debt, but it won't stop them functioning as normal.

[Rangie]

Need a new TV so will wait a while definitely.😃

Horlicks. Complete and utter. 

If you have the spare cash and fancy one, buy it.

Just don't expect them to put it in the living room and plug it in for you

. 

Spare cash ! I'm a pensioner 😃😀😄

[STEMO]

Need a new TV so will wait a while definitely.😃

Horlicks. Complete and utter. 

If you have the spare cash and fancy one, buy it.

Just don't expect them to put it in the living room and plug it in for you

. 

Spare cash ! I'm a pensioner 😃😀😄

Aye. That'll be some fickin pension.

[dave the builder]

Need a new TV so will wait a while definitely.😃

Horlicks. Complete and utter. 

If you have the spare cash and fancy one, buy it.

Just don't expect them to put it in the living room and plug it in for you

. 

Spare cash ! I'm a pensioner 😃😀😄

In that case , get the B&W portable out the loft 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well the post WW2 UK debt was £21 billion, and it took until 2006 until all debts had been paid off.

So, whatever the final UK debt figure that has been amassed at the end of all this, will take a long time to clear again, and I am sure we will go through a period of austerity as the British did after WW2 that I was still seeing as a child in the late 1950's, but how long it will last, who knows!

The 'national debt' will never be cleared, Lizzie, it's just a number, and it seems to bear no relation as to how a country is considered credit worthy or not. Some countries are in a better position than others. We, unlike the Eurozone, are able to print money. This usually leads to high inflation somewhere down the road, but that's a problem for another day. (Governments have been working this way for decades. The next parliament can sort it out).

Yes, very true as well

I have heard some 'financial observers' suggest that, as this debt is widespread across nations,it should just be "written off"!  Now, I am no national financier, but would the stinking rich individuals / countries of the world, who are the ones at the end of this chain of debt allow this to happen?

Anyone qualified out there to answer that?

All I know in business you cannot write off customers debts without giving your company one hell of a financial problem, even annihilation in the commercial world.

[Lizzie Zoom]

The Americans are going to end up with trillions of dollars of debt, but it won't stop them functioning as normal.

They already owe China trillions of dollars in debts 

[STEMO]

The Americans are going to end up with trillions of dollars of debt, but it won't stop them functioning as normal.

They already owe China trillions of dollars in debts 

Exactly my point. And if they decided not to pay on demand? 
What I meant was write it off, as debt is sold on the international markets. Either way, I doubt the US would ever be seen as a financial pariah.

[Doctor Gollum]

Chinese goods become alot cheaper

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Well the post WW2 UK debt was £21 billion, and it took until 2006 until all debts had been paid off.

So, whatever the final UK debt figure that has been amassed at the end of all this, will take a long time to clear again, and I am sure we will go through a period of austerity as the British did after WW2 that I was still seeing as a child in the late 1950's, but how long it will last, who knows!

The national debt was close to £2 trillion before this happened ! Its seems like its almost at the point now that the figures are so ludicrous, no -one really cares any more. There is no realistic prospect of getting on top of it in the foreseeable future.
This Govt. were already spending money the country doesn't have, like a Labour Govt. would from day one in office.
If (and its a big IF) it succeeds in killing off the Labour party as an electoral force for good, then, in the long term it might be worth it I suppose.
Although if the cost of that is the Tory party morphing into a Blairite version of Labour (and this has pretty much already happened) then it also poses the question "what was the point ?"

[Lizzie Zoom]

China is owed..............................................$1.18 trillion out of an overall USA debt of $21 trillion, apparently!

The US is broke in reality.  The American century is over!

[STEMO]

..............................................$1.18 trillion out of an overall USA debt of $21 trillion, apparently!

The US is broke in reality.  The American century is over!

Most countries are broke, doesn't seem to matter.
For the sake of argument, if China and the US started shooting at each other, what matters a few trillion dollars?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

If the rest of the world play it right when this is over, then we could make China very skint indeed.
Cant see it happening though. The big players love their globalisation agenda no matter what the cost.

[STEMO]

We need to renege on the Huawei deal for starters.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Absolutely. And as individuals, at least try to stop buying Chinese goods and services, when possible.

[Lizzie Zoom]

..............................................$1.18 trillion out of an overall USA debt of $21 trillion, apparently!

The US is broke in reality.  The American century is over!

Most countries are broke, doesn't seem to matter.
For the sake of argument, if China and the US started shooting at each other, what matters a few trillion dollars?

Well, yes there is that about it.  In fact I cannot imagine China being able to collect the American debt anytime soon, as American military muscle is greater than the Chinese one!

[STEMO]

..............................................$1.18 trillion out of an overall USA debt of $21 trillion, apparently!

The US is broke in reality.  The American century is over!

Most countries are broke, doesn't seem to matter.
For the sake of argument, if China and the US started shooting at each other, what matters a few trillion dollars?

Well, yes there is that about it.  In fact I cannot imagine China being able to collect the American debt anytime soon, as American military muscle is greater than the Chinese one!

Their GDP is also much larger. No good having a population of well over a billion if 95% of them are non productive peasants.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Absolutely. And as individuals, at least try to stop buying Chinese goods and services, when possible.

Maybe with 'Globalisation' now being seriously questioned, perhaps, just perhaps, along with Brexit, the British industrial power can be resurrected and start producing BRITISH goods to replace the foriegn ones, especially those from China! 

[STEMO]

Absolutely. And as individuals, at least try to stop buying Chinese goods and services, when possible.

Maybe with 'Globalisation' now being seriously questioned, perhaps, just perhaps, along with Brexit, the British industrial power can be resurrected and start producing BRITISH goods to replace the foriegn ones, especially those from China! 

You can wake up now, Lizzie. The news is on, have a look. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

We need to reassess what is important to society and the economy.

Occupations that are truly important such as carers, teachers, doctors, shop workers....etc..etc

Occupations (if you can call them that) that are unimportant such as footballers, F1 drivers, tennis players etc..etc.

[Doctor Gollum]

Put some myths to bed...

https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2020-05-05?mode=listen

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I shall probably go from piss poor to totally impoverished,

Luckily for me I'm a cheerful young chap or I'd be swinging from a rope.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We need to reassess what is important to society and the economy.

Occupations that are truly important such as carers, teachers, doctors, shop workers....etc..etc

Occupations (if you can call them that) that are unimportant such as footballers, F1 drivers, tennis players etc..etc.

That has already happened to an extent during the Blair years. GP,s for example were given huge payrises, so the minimum salary is in six figures, while releasing them from most of their traditional obligations to actually care for and appropriately treat their patients.
Now they earn very good money for doing nothing much. Its mainly a nine to five, Monday to Friday job, with plenty of time during a shift to make extra bucks by doing private work.
If NHS patients present a problem that cant get them out the door with a quick prescription for antibiotics or advice to take Paracetemol, they advise them to go to A&E.
traditionally, the Public sector had high job security, good pensions and terms and conditions, but less take home pay. They have kept the advantages and also pay his risen above private sector pay.
If you know which arses to kiss in the public sector now you can get an important sounding non job, with a salary higher than the Prime Minister.
In the end though, market forces will always have to apply to some degree. The alternative has been proven time and time again, not to work. You just end up with a smaller group of wealthy people, with the majority much poorer than they would be if they were being exploited in an evil Capitalist society.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

We need to reassess what is important to society and the economy.

Occupations that are truly important such as carers, teachers, doctors, shop workers....etc..etc

Occupations (if you can call them that) that are unimportant such as footballers, F1 drivers, tennis players etc..etc.

That has already happened to an extent during the Blair years. GP,s for example were given huge payrises, so the minimum salary is in six figures, while releasing them from most of their traditional obligations to actually care for and appropriately treat their patients.
Now they earn very good money for doing nothing much. Its mainly a nine to five, Monday to Friday job, with plenty of time during a shift to make extra bucks by doing private work.
If NHS patients present a problem that cant get them out the door with a quick prescription for antibiotics or advice to take Paracetemol, they advise them to go to A&E.
traditionally, the Public sector had high job security, good pensions and terms and conditions, but less take home pay. They have kept the advantages and also pay his risen above private sector pay.
If you know which arses to kiss in the public sector now you can get an important sounding non job, with a salary higher than the Prime Minister.
In the end though, market forces will always have to apply to some degree. The alternative has been proven time and time again, not to work. You just end up with a smaller group of wealthy people, with the majority much poorer than they would be if they were being exploited in an evil Capitalist society.

I'm fine with market forces if the companies concerned take responsibility. But they don't, they expect the government (tax payer) to kiss it better.

Whatever happened to responsible capitalism.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I agree.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

When business is too big to fail it suddenly becomes the responsibility of the bank of Mum and Dad......us.

How come?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We don't know if  "too big to fail" is true or not. We would have found out a decade ago, if it was handled differently, but it wasn't.
We may find out with the Eurozone in the not too distant future, as they might have to make that decision all over again. It was looking precarious before Covid, so god knows what it will look like after it.
I suspect it may well turn out that we made the Brexit decision at just the right time.

[STEMO]

Our banks aren't going to fail. Every loan they're giving out is government backed. And before this crisis they were stress tested to death.

[Rangie]

I have every confidence in our banks, the brains behind them would laugh at our comments on here , the one thing the UK does excel in is finance.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Our banks aren't going to fail. Every loan they're giving out is government backed. And before this crisis they were stress tested to death.

That is a remarkably socialist statement. I thought the banks were supposed to be the red meat of capitalism.

[STEMO]

Our banks aren't going to fail. Every loan they're giving out is government backed. And before this crisis they were stress tested to death.

That is a remarkably socialist statement. I thought the banks were supposed to be the red meat of capitalism.

It's not socialist, it's factual.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Our banks aren't going to fail. Every loan they're giving out is government backed. And before this crisis they were stress tested to death.

That is a remarkably socialist statement. I thought the banks were supposed to be the red meat of capitalism.

It's not socialist, it's factual.

It's a socialist fact.

But even with the taxpayer wiping the arse of the banking system I reckon it can still fail if the country can't borrow money.

I should add that the chances of the banks failing prior to 2008 was zero.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Our banks aren't going to fail. Every loan they're giving out is government backed. And before this crisis they were stress tested to death.

UK banks yes. Others, we shall see.

[Doctor Gollum]

The banks are merely a facility for the government to get their grants and small business loans support to the business accounts directly.

Unfortunately because the snidey banker knutz types are going to make money from either the government or the small businesses in the process, they've made the money almost impossible to apply for by halving their staff and opening times.

Inspite of all of them being bailed out by said government when they forgot how to count twelve years ago

[Viral_Jim]

That has already happened to an extent during the Blair years. GP,s for example were given huge payrises, so the minimum salary is in six figures, while releasing them from most of their traditional obligations to actually care for and appropriately treat their patients.

What a load of cr@p.

https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/other-doctors-pay-scales/salaried-gps-pay-ranges

Considering the level of debt most med students leave university with, and the fact they then have to train for 5 more years, after their 5yr medical degree, £58k isn't a lot compared to a number of other professions, which have far less responsibility attached to them. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I was speaking about GP,s. Read the words before you call something crap.

[Doctor Gollum]

That has already happened to an extent during the Blair years. GP,s for example were given huge payrises, so the minimum salary is in six figures, while releasing them from most of their traditional obligations to actually care for and appropriately treat their patients.

What a load of cr@p.

https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/other-doctors-pay-scales/salaried-gps-pay-ranges

Considering the level of debt most med students leave university with, and the fact they then have to train for 5 more years, after their 5yr medical degree, £58k isn't a lot compared to a number of other professions, which have far less responsibility attached to them. 

Should have worked through their degrees rather than drinking through them then

[Entwood]

I was speaking about GP,s. Read the words before you call something crap.

I think you'll find the link is actually GP's salaries .. should you care to look ..... and not a 6 figure sum to be seen ...  so I think the "crap" call is fair...

[Viral_Jim]

I was speaking about GP,s. Read the words before you call something crap.

The link I posted was salaried GP salaries for this year.  As were the training requirements.

Fret ye not though, optician salaries will be much more to your liking. 

Edit, beaten to it 

[STEMO]

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/just-one-in-eight-gps-earns-over-100k-a-year/20039938.article

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Average GP salary in 2019 was £113,00 which doesn't include private work and other perks, so you can far cough.
I know a GP practice manager very well and he has told me that the headline figure for earnings is laughable,the full package is more like double that, and this is in a medium sized village. In cities, the sky is the limit.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/average-gp-now-earns-113000-series-pay-boosts/

[STEMO]

Well.....someone's right. Which means.........

[Viral_Jim]

Hmm, the professional  ody that sets GP salaries. Or a right leaning national newspaper. Let me think about which one might be more accurate source of GP salary information....

But then there's the 'i know someone who knows' argument. The internet's trump card 

Of course, the article you linked talks about total earnings, not salary. So if you could make your mind up which you mean, that would probably help as well...