Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheBoy on 01 March 2010, 09:21:24
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My poor, beloved MV6 has developed a very worrying noise from the engine. Sounds very metallic, almost like a lifter but much, much louder, and probably double the frequency.
This happened during an LPG conversion at the weekend with Kevin Wood and Chrisgixer. The only parts of the engine that were touched were the inlets and the cooling system rerouted.
Difficult to pinpoint the noise to either bank, sounds more like its coming from under plenum, but at a loss as to what it could be?
The car starts OK, and idles at a steady fast idle as expected, except the noise. No oil light. No tried increasing revs, as it really doesn't sound good.
Aux belt currently off the crank pulley to eliminate anything that runs.
I have had to leave the car at Kevin Wood's house, as with that noise, I don't think it would make it out of the village, let alone the trip home :'(
Any places to start?
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similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
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also i don't need my car until Wednesday if you need wheels....
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similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
That though had crossed our minds, but cambelt area not touched. Big end failure had crossed Kevin Wood's mind, but that again would have to be coincidental ?
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is it the injectores rattling on the metal plate on plenum? they make a hell of a racket for injectors, when new, and are rubber mounted usually..?
please god nothing fell down the inlet, but you say its not cylinder specific?
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similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
That though had crossed our minds, but cambelt area not touched. Big end failure had crossed Kevin Wood's mind, but that again would have to be coincidental ?
No work was done on my engine when it started making that noise, it just happened one morning. Worth taking cambelt cover off and using that listening stick used on mine...
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Doesnt sound good :'(
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is it the injectores rattling on the metal plate on plenum? they make a hell of a racket for injectors, when new, and are rubber mounted usually..?
please god nothing fell down the inlet, but you say its not cylinder specific?
I was late last night (like gone midnight), but we're both considering the possibility of a foreign object in No1. Compression tests were not hopeful :'(, but hoping it was just borewash, and the real problem is elsewhere, and not terminal.
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similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
That though had crossed our minds, but cambelt area not touched. Big end failure had crossed Kevin Wood's mind, but that again would have to be coincidental ?
big end type noise? not injecters then.
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Additional info, this noise only appears when the car actually starts. Just cranking over buy disconnecting the crank sensor, the noise cannot be heard. I am hoping this is a good sign...
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similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
That though had crossed our minds, but cambelt area not touched. Big end failure had crossed Kevin Wood's mind, but that again would have to be coincidental ?
big end type noise? not injecters then.
LPG ECU has no power currently.
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Big end is a very deep knock....pretty obvious.
Foreign object down the inlet.....causing valve to stick.
Was it idling smoothly ?
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bore wash, did not drill manifold in place did you? ::) :P
Was going to suggest something in the waterpump, but the aux belt is off. My money is still on cambelt tensioner
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Well, its clear you need to check and work through the basics.........
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Big end is a very deep knock....pretty obvious.
Foreign object down the inlet.....causing valve to stick.
Was it idling smoothly ?
Idle was steady at 1100 rpm which is about right for fast idle on that car (it was bloody cold, and we never ran it for more than about 10s at any time - probably tried it 3 or 4 times trying to pinpoint the noise (eg removing aux belt etc))
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Well, its clear you need to check and work through the basics.........
We are assuming that (petrol) injectors firing at the wrong time would not cause any real issue?
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If it was down a cylinder then, it would be obvious.....what were the compression test results like?
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If it was down a cylinder then, it would be obvious.....what were the compression test results like?
First compression tests wer 10bar for no1, and 14 for others. 2nd test, 6bar for no1. Not sure if borewash would be coming into play, he says optimistically?
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Should add, compression test reads 12 bar on all cylinders bar no.1 which reads about 6-7. :(
OK, it was cold, the bores dry and washed with fuel after a few quick start-stop cycles, but, given all the other pots were healthy and closely matched I think that's a clear sign.
It appeared to settle at a smooth idle for the few seconds we ran it.
It is a harsher sound than a big end, thinking about it.
I fear foreign object is looking like the most likely. :'( Given the work carried out, it seems the only option other than a coincidental failure.
No evidence of damage to the plug or from what can be seen of the piston crown down the plug hole.
Kevin
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
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Ahh, yes. 14 bar on the healthy pots.
Kevin
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.
Kevin
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.
Kevin
DO you think it was running on 5? I thought it was probably running too well to be 1cyl down?
But then the compression test......
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.
Kevin
V6 idles ok on 5? When i destroyed a plug on the 2.2 that felt damn rough, but not experianced miss-fire on V6.
Can V6 be run with pot 1 HT lead / plug out? Run like poo i should imagine, but might be able to see something bouncing around in the pot?
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could only be paper towl surely?
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could only be paper towl surely?
Would that not burn off eventually? would get soaked in fuel and go bang quite quickly?
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Sorry to hear this, Jaime. I know the sinking feeling - I had it when my MV6 threw a rod!
Maybe it's running on 5.5? Given the compression reading, it does seem possible something has got into no1. Presume you've taken the inlets right off and looked down into the valve stems?
My feeling is you'll be pulling that head off for a closer look.
If I can help in any way, shout :y
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.
Kevin
DO you think it was running on 5? I thought it was probably running too well to be 1cyl down?
But then the compression test......
Not sure :-/ The engine seemed to be rocking a little, but the important point IMHO is that it was smooth on the cylinders that are OK (I.E. no massive air leak causing it to run lean, etc.).
I think the compression test points to the next course of action, unpalatable though it may be. :(
Kevin
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Head-Off party at Kevin's place? ::)
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Head-Off party at Kevin's place? ::)
Well, I think the venue is fixed, unless anyone has a low loader. ;)
Kevin
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if there is a foreign object, would the idle not be rough? :-/
You'd only lose 1 cylinder. I'd say at least 5 were firing.
Kevin
DO you think it was running on 5? I thought it was probably running too well to be 1cyl down?
But then the compression test......
Not sure :-/ The engine seemed to be rocking a little, but the important point IMHO is that it was smooth on the cylinders that are OK (I.E. no massive air leak causing it to run lean, etc.).
I think the compression test points to the next course of action, unpalatable though it may be. :(
Kevin
I think in our heart of hearts, that was the conclusion that we came to last night, and sleeping* on it hasn't come up with any other ideas.
*I reckon I may have had even less sleep that you :o
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So....check the plug on no1 cylinder...is it tight, is the thread damaged etc (they make quite a crack on each firing when loose!).
Rotate the crank to TDC with No 1 valves shut.... put a teaspoon of some suitable liquid into each valve duct and see if it goes anywhere.
Other option is to shine a bright torch into the spark plug hole with the crank in the above condition and look for light leaking past the inlet valve.
I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
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So....check the plug on no1 cylinder...is it tight, is the thread damaged etc (they make quite a crack on each firing when loose!).
Plug has been in and out. They were correctly torqued and no damage apparent.
Rotate the crank to TDC with No 1 valves shut.... put a teaspoon of some suitable liquid into each valve duct and see if it goes anywhere.
I can give this a try tonight. :y
Other option is to shine a bright torch into the spark plug hole with the crank in the above condition and look for light leaking past the inlet valve.
I will try this too.
I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.
Kevin
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Yep....back to basics....take the LPG setup OUT of the ecu loom.
Its not impossible that the LPG setup is doing something stupid to injector no 1.....
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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.
Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?
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*I reckon I may have had even less sleep that you :o
Got in at about 4 IIRC (please don't calculate the average speed ::)). Probably got to bed at about 4:30 (there were things in my hair from the garage floor that didn't belong on my pillow, so had to wash it - gay, I know!)
Woke up again at about 5:30 - 6 I think. >:(
Kevin
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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.
Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?
......and if the LPG setup was firing no 1 injector permanently due to an internal short....e.g. loads of bore wash.....
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I have to be honest, my 2.5 CDX sounded AWFUL when trying to start it after major surgery... all sorts of banging, popping... this was caused by bore wash too.
Will be very interested in tonight's results :y
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I assume the injector wiring is as per original manufacture and does not have any LPG un-knowns in the setup.
It has the injector wiring looped through the LPG ECU (which is unpowered). Can give it a try with the original loom, I suppose.
Kevin
At worse, that would just be like running a single point injection if the LPG ECU was doing something odd? Or like when cam sensor goes, and it fires injectors in pairs?
......and if the LPG setup was firing no 1 injector permanently due to an internal short....e.g. loads of bore wash.....
That makes a lot of sense :y
Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue? I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?
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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.
1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
2) extreme bore wash might explain why the compression got worse when we retested it after testing with the aux. belt removed. FOD would probably have resulted in a one-off knackering of the valves rather than progressive.
3) The plug from that pot did seem quite wet (although they all were, it having been fired up for only a couple of seconds from cold).
4) There was no evidence of damage on the plug or the piston crown consistent with something getting battered around in there.
Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue? I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?
Noise did sound ominous, but I guess if the oil film between piston and bore had been taken out, the piston would be rattling around in the bore.
Not sure I'll be up for reassembling it and running it tonight. An early night seems a better option at the moment, but I can at least buzz out the LPG loom pretty easily and check that the injector signal is correctly looped through.
Kevin
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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.
1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
2) extreme bore wash might explain why the compression got worse when we retested it after testing with the aux. belt removed. FOD would probably have resulted in a one-off knackering of the valves rather than progressive.
3) The plug from that pot did seem quite wet (although they all were, it having been fired up for only a couple of seconds from cold).
4) There was no evidence of damage on the plug or the piston crown consistent with something getting battered around in there.
Would that cause the noise, as I think it would be really coincidental for the injector to cause the compression, and the metallic noise to be an unrelated issue? I guess borewash means lack of lubrication in that pot though?
Noise did sound ominous, but I guess if the oil film between piston and bore had been taken out, the piston would be rattling around in the bore.
Not sure I'll be up for reassembling it and running it tonight. An early night seems a better option at the moment, but I can at least buzz out the LPG loom pretty easily and check that the injector signal is correctly looped through.
Kevin
Too bloody right - I am absolutely cream crackered, I can only imagine how you feel. Oh, and I've done the maths for your return journey :o :o :o :o :o, and fully understand yours and chrisgixer's comments about how you tend to hoof it everywhere on lpg.
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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.
1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we? Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)
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Too bloody right - I am absolutely cream crackered, I can only imagine how you feel. Oh, and I've done the maths for your return journey :o :o :o :o :o, and fully understand yours and chrisgixer's comments about how you tend to hoof it everywhere on lpg.
I went via Winchester too, for variety. ::)
Fully expected a caning to bring a premature end of play to that tank of LPG but it still got me to work and was showing about 290 miles once I got here.
Kevin
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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.
1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we? Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)
Yep. Just used the piggy-back connectors so it will be a piece of cake to trace them back to the pins on the ECU, and check the loop through the ECU.
Kevin
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That makes a lot of sense :y
It's a ray of hope, thinking about it.
1) It's not unheard of for Teilo's looms to be wrong. I recall someone else having one with a wiring error of some description.
We did leave the connectors on, rather than splice in, didn't we? Sure we did, but my brain is suffering from a combination of late nights and your port collection ::)
we did use the lpg loom plugs, just plug and play in theory. The length of the loom wires to plugs means its difficult to get the plugs wrong and not notice, the way we did it. Must admit i'm quite happy to blame Tilo at this point.
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we did use the lpg loom plugs, just plug and play in theory. The length of the loom wires to plugs means its difficult to get the plugs wrong and not notice
:-[
I can testify to the fact that swapping the cables over for the petrol injectors doesn't noticeably affect running, although swapping them across banks obviously will screw up the Lambda loops (actually, it had the side effect of extinguishing the emissions light on my 3.2, for some bizarre reason.
A "stuck on" injector will obviously cause serious issues, though.
Kevin
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Its somewhat comforting to see I am not the only oof'er to become stranded when a job doesn't go exactly to plan
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I have an engine that's just spat out a big end. It sounded the same as this. Actually, it sounded just like a stuck lifter......
you can check easily. If you get the offending cylinder to TDC and rock it to and fro, a screwdriver down the plug hole will reveal any play that could be in the bearing.
Kevin, I was going to ask if I could pop by on thursay evening to talk MS with you. ( I'm in the South on thursday & friday ) we could have a chat over the car if you like - and if the owner is willing.
I'll come with tools and prepared for a head-removal, too. Can certainly get it stripped and the head off in an evening
just re-read this - where is the car currently ?
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I have an engine that's just spat out a big end. It sounded the same as this. Actually, it sounded just like a stuck lifter......
you can check easily. If you get the offending cylinder to TDC and rock it to and fro, a screwdriver down the plug hole will reveal any play that could be in the bearing.
Kevin, I was going to ask if I could pop by on thursay evening to talk MS with you. ( I'm in the South on thursday & friday ) we could have a chat over the car if you like - and if the owner is willing.
I'll come with tools and prepared for a head-removal, too. Can certainly get it stripped and the head off in an evening
just re-read this - where is the car currently ?
The car is with me in Four Marks.
I'd be happy to have a chat about Megasquirt, and should be around on Thursday. :y
I am hopeful that a check of the injector wiring might reveal something. I think it's highly unlikely that it's a big end but thanks for the tip anyway. Can't hurt to try it.
My comment about the big end was that if someone brought a car to me making those sort of noises without knowing the history that would be my first thought.
In this case, the car apparently enjoyed some spirited driving on the way over and sounded sweet enough when it was pulled into my garage. Unlikely for a big end to simply fail at start-up when it had previously been fine under load IMHO. Something caused by / related to the LPG install would be more likely.
Thanks for the offer of help. Let's see how it goes. Ultimately it's TheBoy's car so up to him what steps are taken to resolve it. :y
Kevin
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we did use the lpg loom plugs, just plug and play in theory. The length of the loom wires to plugs means its difficult to get the plugs wrong and not notice
:-[
I can testify to the fact that swapping the cables over for the petrol injectors doesn't noticeably affect running, although swapping them across banks obviously will screw up the Lambda loops (actually, it had the side effect of extinguishing the emissions light on my 3.2, for some bizarre reason.
A "stuck on" injector will obviously cause serious issues, though.
Kevin
Worth another tech2 on it, see if its poked up any extra pointers. Fully expect:
19 or 31 (seeing as we have played silly beggers with that sensor)
55 ecu fault (normal on this car)
Just wondering if the playing around the ecu connector has introduced something. Though the noise does sound mechanical :-/
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Its somewhat comforting to see I am not the only oof'er to become stranded when a job doesn't go exactly to plan
I am indebted to Mr Wood for ensuring I wasn't stranded, and I made it back for work this morning. :-[
Talk about real friendship :y
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ok so I'll come over on thursday, just pm me your postcode - you'll be able to tell when I'm outside your place ;)
would be pleased to pitch in with the spanners if needs be.
the engine in mine originally failed in exactly the same manner. started up to reveal the noise. Everyone but everyone thought it was a follower, to the extent that I changed all of the followers, but it was only the screwdriver test that revealed the bearing issue.
there were a couple of O-rings blocking the oil pump pick-up. Strangely enough, the rest of the engine is as clean as a whistle - none of the other bearings are marked, yet one had knocked-out to the extent that it had spun. A clean-up and some bearings have taken away 90% of the knocking, but I'm wanting to change the rod before I give it porper usage.
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When are you removing the LPG setup from the equation Kevin?.
As many know, I dont prescribe to conincidental faults.....hence, at this stage, it needs to be infered that the fault is a consequence of the work done/bits added.
And, as we all know, just because something is new, does not guarantee that it works.
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When are you removing the LPG setup from the equation Kevin?.
As many know, I dont prescribe to conincidental faults.....hence, at this stage, it needs to be infered that the fault is a consequence of the work done/bits added.
And, as we all know, just because something is new, does not guarantee that it works.
Exactly. I don't think its bigends, purely because there is nothing we have done that could have affected them. It has to be something around what we have done, which currently points to the LPG causing it, something dropped down the inlet, or an error in reassembly of intake/plenum (unlikely I would say, did most of it myself)
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When are you removing the LPG setup from the equation Kevin?.
As many know, I dont prescribe to conincidental faults.....hence, at this stage, it needs to be infered that the fault is a consequence of the work done/bits added.
And, as we all know, just because something is new, does not guarantee that it works.
Exactly. I don't think its bigends, purely because there is nothing we have done that could have affected them. It has to be something around what we have done, which currently points to the LPG causing it, something dropped down the inlet, or an error in reassembly of intake/plenum (unlikely I would say, did most of it myself)
Exactly, hence why the first thing to do is get back to the last known point that it was working. :y
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I might just be able to borrow a "snake-eye" for the day, will let you know.
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It's not something as simple as the LPG injectors/pipes/clips rattling against the underside of the pleneum??
Is it worth disconnecting all the lpg gas lines & electric lines and running it on petrol just to see if the fault remains ??
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I'm not suggesting it's the big ends. ;) I have stated that it's impossibly unlikely that they would just happen to fail on startup after unrelated work, and after previously being fine under load. I merely commented that the noise sounded of a similar level of "seriousness".
I agree that the LPG setup and particularly a stuck open injector are under suspicion. These are things we had overlooked in the limited diagnosis we performed last night so as soon as I feel awake enough they will be the first items to be eliminated. :y
EDIT: Our first thoughts were that it could be a new component rattling, especially as the injector bracket is not well supported. Another listen proved beyond doubt that this was not the case.
Kevin
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On the plus side, if a foreign object had got into the inlet and caused valve damage, I would expect close to a 0 compression reading.....
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On the plus side, if a foreign object had got into the inlet and caused valve damage, I would expect close to a 0 compression reading.....
Agreed. It isn't going to raise 6 bar during cranking with any damage to speak of.
I'm also sure we would have seen witness marks on the spark plug and piston crown if that were the case.
I will try the fluid on the intake valve check and the light behind the valve check as it's stripped down, then eliminate all the LPG electrical stuff and put it back together. I can even put on a spare manifold without any nozzles, thinking about it.
Kevin
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If needed/wanted i have boroscope/inspection camera you can borrow. Im only in southampton so not to far. let me no if needed.
Lee
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On the plus side, if a foreign object had got into the inlet and caused valve damage, I would expect close to a 0 compression reading.....
Agreed. It isn't going to raise 6 bar during cranking with any damage to speak of.
I'm also sure we would have seen witness marks on the spark plug and piston crown if that were the case.
I will try the fluid on the intake valve check and the light behind the valve check as it's stripped down, then eliminate all the LPG electrical stuff and put it back together. I can even put on a spare manifold without any nozzles, thinking about it.
Kevin
And a goosed big end is not going to affect compression ratio.....only weak or poorly sealing rings or valve seats can do that.....
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Kevin, as per my PM, I'd almost put money on it being with the wiring loom :y :y
I checked mine thoroughly in the living room before fitting and found that the injector wiring was crossed over... Was only the markers that were wrong, not the actual loom. :y :y
I'm sure it's nothing more serious than this. And we all know it's easy enough to swap injector wiring by accident when connecting up ::) ::)
It's easy to check the loom for an obvious cross... The 6 injector "Sets" are in individual branches :y :y
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Many thanks for the offers of bore scopes, etc.. :y I am optimistic that it won't be needed but I will bear in mind.
Checked the piston crowns tonight and whilst they were previously all looking wet after the initial start only number one was today. The others are dry as a bone. Put a little oil down the plug hole and cranked it without plugs to throw a little oil up the bore and disperse any remaining fuel and No. 1 is back to 14 bar.
LPG injector wiring was correct but it's been removed now. I'll put it all back together with the original loom tomorrow but I'm just knocking myself up a noid light to check the signals from the main ECU first just in case.
Kevin
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Many thanks for the offers of bore scopes, etc.. :y I am optimistic that it won't be needed but I will bear in mind.
Checked the piston crowns tonight and whilst they were previously all looking wet after the initial start only number one was today. The others are dry as a bone. Put a little oil down the plug hole and cranked it without plugs to throw a little oil up the bore and disperse any remaining fuel and No. 1 is back to 14 bar.
LPG injector wiring was correct but it's been removed now. I'll put it all back together with the original loom tomorrow but I'm just knocking myself up a noid light to check the signals from the main ECU first just in case.
Kevin
Is that number to number on the loom or actually correct ;)
I had the crossed markers ;)
Oh... And go to bed!!! You must be knackered!
I may be able to pop down next week if another pair of eyes is needed
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Is that number to number on the loom or actually correct ;)
I had the crossed markers ;)
Numbers and colour codes all match and go to the correct pins on the injectors as far as I can see. Whether they go to the correct pins on the LPG ECU is another matter, of course. .. and I will just check the output from the main ECU. I have been in the main ECU connector making connections. You never know.
Tomorrow's job.
Oh... And go to bed!!! You must be knackered!
I may be able to pop down next week if another pair of eyes is needed
I wish I was as knackered now as I was mid afternoon. ;D
Kevin
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At least it looks like there's no FOD :y :y
Assuming it all runs OK with normal loom plugged in I'd be testing continuity between the injector plugs on the LPG Loom... Should highlight the problem without digging around at the plug end ;) ;)
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Checked the piston crowns tonight and whilst they were previously all looking wet after the initial start only number one was today. The others are dry as a bone. Put a little oil down the plug hole and cranked it without plugs to throw a little oil up the bore and disperse any remaining fuel and No. 1 is back to 14 bar.
Think how nice and clean those rings will be on no 1 cylinder now.....
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Has your MV6 got EGR?
Is the nut on the flexible pipe done up properly?
Your initial comment about the noise being more rapid than a sticky lifter makes me wonder if it isn't caused by exhaust pulses making giving something a hammering :-/
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Has your MV6 got EGR?
Is the nut on the flexible pipe done up properly?
Your initial comment about the noise being more rapid than a sticky lifter makes me wonder if it isn't caused by exhaust pulses making giving something a hammering :-/
It was - we went around checking for vibration noises. Obviously, the plenum is currently off at the mo...
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Just a thought guys, I remember when we had the mini cambelt party at Chez Massive the other year, after doing the cam covers and cambelt on a motor Daz fired it up and was greeted with a horrible knocking/banging noise.
Naturally after a cambelt change the timing was suspected so the pink one set about stripping it down again to check the timing, which was found to be spot on (Yes he has got one right at last ;D).
After a bit of head scratching he phoned Mr. DTM and was told to change the plug leads.
So with a set of new leads the engine was reassembled and voila purred like a good un.
Just a bit more food for thought as they say, as I assume the leads have been off/ disturbed during the LPG work.
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Just a thought guys, I remember when we had the mini cambelt party at Chez Massive the other year, after doing the cam covers and cambelt on a motor Daz fired it up and was greeted with a horrible knocking/banging noise.
Naturally after a cambelt change the timing was suspected so the pink one set about stripping it down again to check the timing, which was found to be spot on (Yes he has got one right at last ;D).
After a bit of head scratching he phoned Mr. DTM and was told to change the plug leads.
So with a set of new leads the engine was reassembled and voila purred like a good un.
Just a bit more food for thought as they say, as I assume the leads have been off/ disturbed during the LPG work.
Not a bad thought but I don't see why the leads will have been disturbed. :-/ :-/
Actually... Didn't TB replace plugs too?
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I hadn't seen it mentioned Paul so I was just chucking another possibility into the pot.
Would be easy to disturb a lead whilst routing pipe/ cable around the inlet mani I would have thought especially if the lead had become a bit brittle with age.
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Plugs were changed.
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I'm assuming that we're still on for Thursday.
I'm leaving in the morning - driving down to Bristol in the afternoon, staying over tomorrow night for work on thursday. Then to you Thursday night.
won't bring tools as it looks like we'll not be removing heads after all. Added to that, the Holden hasn't got tie-down loops in the boot, so I couldn't keep the toolbox from crashing about properly.
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I'm assuming that we're still on for Thursday.
I'm leaving in the morning - driving down to Bristol in the afternoon, staying over tomorrow night for work on thursday. Then to you Thursday night.
won't bring tools as it looks like we'll not be removing heads after all. Added to that, the Holden hasn't got tie-down loops in the boot, so I couldn't keep the toolbox from crashing about properly.
Might be better to drop Kevin Wood a PM - he may be busy with other problems regarding a bent Westfield :'( to read this thread currently :y
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don't worry - we're in contact
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actually - does the Omega need any spares ? I have multiple most things...... but you'll need to tell me tonight
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Hmmm, wonder if lead to No1 got knackered during plug change, thus the wetness of that pot :-/
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Hmmm, wonder if lead to No1 got knackered during plug change, thus the wetness of that pot :-/
I wonder if 2woody has any spare leads he could bring with him just to try?
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might have some V6 leads in the garage, can't remember if they are V6 or S6
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Just spat my tea at the computer. I remember that day well youth ;D ;D ;D
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in the car.......
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Lets all hope that it really is that simple ... :y :y :y :y
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Just spat my tea at the computer. I remember that day well youth ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D and me ;D ;D ;D
Barry and his clever ideas ;D
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Just spat my tea at the computer. I remember that day well youth ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D and me ;D ;D ;D
Barry and his clever ideas ;D
The day Jimbob learned to change cambelts, was nice of Ljay to let him practice on her car too. ;D
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Noise description sounds spot-on.
Very interesting. Something else to check. :y I must admit, I have heard engines run with non-firing cylinders plenty of times and not heard anything like this but maybe the lubrication on this lump is more easily overcome by a little unburnt fuel?
Kevin
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The sound was almost like a hammer hitting an anvil, a horrible metalic sound.
Like Zok says as soon as the leads were changed (thanks to the Frozenman) it was quiet as a mouse.
I even removed the Cam Covers again as it sounded asthough something was under there :o
Noise description sounds spot-on.
Very interesting. Something else to check. :y I must admit, I have heard engines run with non-firing cylinders plenty of times and not heard anything like this but maybe the lubrication on this lump is more easily overcome by a little unburnt fuel?
Kevin
Me too Kev, and when Mr DTM suggested leads I thought it would never cure a noise like that but it did.
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Just read through the entire thread & am sat here with bated breath! I sincerely hope it turns out to be 'summat and nowt' :o
Got everything crossed for you anyhow :y
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Just read through the entire thread & am sat here with bated breath! I sincerely hope it turns out to be 'summat and nowt' :o
Got everything crossed for you anyhow :y
your not kidding, poxy phone battery died earlier while at work, couldnt charge the bugger til i got home and it STILL took 20 mins to turn on, TB is right, gay piece of crap.
Waiting patiently for news from the Woods.
But while we're here, the changing the leads thing, i'm intrigued, whats causing the rattle with a miss fire?
I've seen a v6 litteraly leap from side to side with a miss fire on one pot, might of been 2 pots on the same bank, there was a rattle, but nothing deathly. Not doubting the story, just interested...?
If i had to guess, some sort of pinking thing, piston slap, or the opposite cylinder out of time without the other opposite one firing? guessing mind.
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I've seen a v6 litteraly leap from side to side with a miss fire on one pot, might of been 2 pots on the same bank, there was a rattle, but nothing deathly. Not doubting the story, just interested...?
If i had to guess, some sort of pinking thing, piston slap, or the opposite cylinder out of time without the other opposite one firing? guessing mind.
If the petrol is not being burnt it will wash oil from the bore. If it removes the film of oil between piston and bore the piston isn't lubricated, and there is nothing to stop metal-on-metal contact between piston and bore. Piston slap is probably one of the cacophony of evil noises we were hearing.
I guess it depends how much oil is thrown up the bores against how much fuel is thrown down.
Well, I've been a bit preoccupied tonight but tomorrow there will be an update. :y
Kevin
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I've seen a v6 litteraly leap from side to side with a miss fire on one pot, might of been 2 pots on the same bank, there was a rattle, but nothing deathly. Not doubting the story, just interested...?
If i had to guess, some sort of pinking thing, piston slap, or the opposite cylinder out of time without the other opposite one firing? guessing mind.
If the petrol is not being burnt it will wash oil from the bore. If it removes the film of oil between piston and bore the piston isn't lubricated, and there is nothing to stop metal-on-metal contact between piston and bore. Piston slap is probably one of the cacophony of evil noises we were hearing.
I guess it depends how much oil is thrown up the bores against how much fuel is thrown down.
Well, I've been a bit preoccupied tonight but tomorrow there will be an update. :y
Kevin
sorry, i'm not very good at this posting thing am I ? By "story" i ment Zoks post about changing the leads, how did Mark know to change the leads and leads alone, not dis or plugs? and why would leads have been touched for a cam belt change? other service work done i suppose.
I get the oil wash piston slap thing. I presume TB's car was quiet within a few rpm of starting and got louder as the oil was washed off, almost scared to ask, please God its nout too serious.
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I've seen a v6 litteraly leap from side to side with a miss fire on one pot, might of been 2 pots on the same bank, there was a rattle, but nothing deathly. Not doubting the story, just interested...?
If i had to guess, some sort of pinking thing, piston slap, or the opposite cylinder out of time without the other opposite one firing? guessing mind.
If the petrol is not being burnt it will wash oil from the bore. If it removes the film of oil between piston and bore the piston isn't lubricated, and there is nothing to stop metal-on-metal contact between piston and bore. Piston slap is probably one of the cacophony of evil noises we were hearing.
I guess it depends how much oil is thrown up the bores against how much fuel is thrown down.
Well, I've been a bit preoccupied tonight but tomorrow there will be an update. :y
Kevin
sorry, i'm not very good at this posting thing am I ? By "story" i ment Zoks post about changing the leads, how did Mark know to change the leads and leads alone, not dis or plugs? and why would leads have been touched for a cam belt change? other service work done i suppose.
I get the oil wash piston slap thing. I presume TB's car was quiet within a few rpm of starting and got louder as the oil was washed off, almost scared to ask, please God its nout too serious.
I changed the Cam Covers too on the car we are talking about.. being honest I was as stunned as Zok and you by the sounds of it, but it worked. Thats why Mark is the Master I'm afraid.
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I've seen a v6 litteraly leap from side to side with a miss fire on one pot, might of been 2 pots on the same bank, there was a rattle, but nothing deathly. Not doubting the story, just interested...?
If i had to guess, some sort of pinking thing, piston slap, or the opposite cylinder out of time without the other opposite one firing? guessing mind.
If the petrol is not being burnt it will wash oil from the bore. If it removes the film of oil between piston and bore the piston isn't lubricated, and there is nothing to stop metal-on-metal contact between piston and bore. Piston slap is probably one of the cacophony of evil noises we were hearing.
I guess it depends how much oil is thrown up the bores against how much fuel is thrown down.
Well, I've been a bit preoccupied tonight but tomorrow there will be an update. :y
Kevin
sorry, i'm not very good at this posting thing am I ? By "story" i ment Zoks post about changing the leads, how did Mark know to change the leads and leads alone, not dis or plugs? and why would leads have been touched for a cam belt change? other service work done i suppose.
I get the oil wash piston slap thing. I presume TB's car was quiet within a few rpm of starting and got louder as the oil was washed off, almost scared to ask, please God its nout too serious.
I changed the Cam Covers too on the car we are talking about.. being honest I was as stunned as Zok and you by the sounds of it, but it worked. Thats why Mark is the Master I'm afraid.
ah ok, so you would have put new plugs in it? ...and the dis fails in pairs of opposing pots i believe, so only leaves leads...? i guess? or did oil in the wells make leads most likely?
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Have to say this is better and more gripping than the soaps!!
Await the next episode/solution with baited breath!!
Jaime - hope its nothing serious ;)
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Have to agree with Mark, even if you've never heard a big end before, you'd know it when it was failing, their ain't another sound like it.
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Have to agree with Mark, even if you've never heard a big end before, you'd know it when it was failing, their ain't another sound like it.
Have to agree.. nothing quite like a big end rattle! :(
Fingers crossed for you TB
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followed with intrest does sound like cylinder off i too have seen engines thrashing about with one plug of and banging on the engine mounts etc i had a old vauxhall 14 many years ago that had a corroded plug lead and the row that came from that was unbelievable it was the engine mount banging along with the piston slap but they were long stroke engines
hope it goes ok for yu mate
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Kevin Wood had another look last night, with the LPG injector loom removed. Noise still present :'(
If you can play it (I can't) noise is:
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/theboy-engine.flac
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Kevin Wood had another look last night, with the LPG injector loom removed. Noise still present :'(
If you can play it (I can't) noise is:
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/theboy-engine.flac
winamp plays it....but im not at home, will have a listen in an hour or so
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not a nice sound!
here it is in mp3 to save anyone installing anything else...
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/theboy-engine.mp3
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Oh! Played it in Winamp (volume needs to be right up).
Oh rather dear :'(
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not a nice sound!
here it is in mp3 to save anyone installing anything else...
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/Jimbob/theboy-engine.mp3
Thanks for the conversion :y
Hasn't made it sound any better though, still sounds worryingly terminal :'(
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Doesn't sound at all good ....but as the compresion test was OK it .. sort of .. rules out something dropping into a cylinder and doing damage.
Noise "seems" so regular as to be just one cylinder sort of timing
Random thought ... could it be an injector ?? as you have had the injector rail off .. I wonder if one injector is being stupid now ??? can you try disconnecting each in turn ??
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To update on work carried out:
Plugs removed and dried, compressions tested. Now all 12-14 bar.
LPG loom disconnected and original injector loom replaced.
All injector signals tested during cranking. Pulses seen as expected.
All plug leads removed, checked for spark during cranking with a timing light in series with plug. All OK.
Fuel pump run with plenum off. Checked down intakes. No leaky injectors.
Reassembled and run.
Again, it did seem to be quieter for a second or two before the noise returned.
I have one more theory. The injectors and fuel rail were removed from one manifold and put back on another with LPG nozzles fitted. Maybe some crud got into the fuel rail and has blocked the pressure regulator giving high fuel pressure and therefore overfuelling and bore wash. The plugs are still getting quite damp although it appears to idle reasonably stable.
I have a second manifold with injectors. I thought about fitting it in this instance but decided against introducing an unknown. Maybe it's time to try that? :-/
Obviously open to any other ideas because I'm starting to run short of them.
Kevin
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Thanks to Jimbob for the MP3 conversion BTW. :y
FLAC was about as close as I could get last night. ;D
Kevin
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2woody, iirc, said he would bring along plug leads, maybe worth a quick try when he comes over to see you, seeing as we did disturb leads to change plugs ? (Just really on Loo-knees suggestion)
Then again, plugs? Could the news ones be faulty? Worth popping others back in - could the new ones be faulty? (eg, an internal break in one?)
I really, really am clutching at staws, really am at a loss now.
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Worth ruling anything and everything out in my book.
not that long ago mark showed me a new broken plug. :-/
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Maybe some crud got into the fuel rail and has blocked the pressure regulator giving high fuel pressure and therefore overfuelling and bore wash.
.. of course, a quick and dirty check might be to disconnect the return line from the fuel rail and see if the expected torrent of fuel is emerging.
I must admit, now I come to think about it, when I ran the fuel pump with engine stopped the FPR was making an unusual noise. Kind-of like a toilet cistern filling when it's almost full. Could be indicative of a small trickle of fuel trying to escape through a partially blocked hole whereas with no fuel demand from the injectors it should be flowing full bore (litres per minute). :-/
Dismissed it at the time as I'd never heard one of these fuel systems pressurised without engine noise.
Kevin
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Maybe some crud got into the fuel rail and has blocked the pressure regulator giving high fuel pressure and therefore overfuelling and bore wash.
.. of course, a quick and dirty check might be to disconnect the return line from the fuel rail and see if the expected torrent of fuel is emerging.
I must admit, now I come to think about it, when I ran the fuel pump with engine stopped the FPR was making an unusual noise. Kind-of like a toilet cistern filling when it's almost full. Could be indicative of a small trickle of fuel trying to escape through a partially blocked hole whereas with no fuel demand from the injectors it should be flowing full bore (litres per minute). :-/
Dismissed it at the time as I'd never heard one of these fuel systems pressurised without engine noise.
Kevin
And I guess ECU won't trim back until it goes closed loop?
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listening several times, noise doesnt appear until it actually fires, its not present while cranking. If it was damage metal to metal or failed baring would it not be present each rpm reguardless of cranking or firing, as said previouly with crank sensor unplugged...some reasurance there perhaps? Although a most unpleasent noise. :(
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Sounds like bore wash as its a very piston slap type sound....
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Just a quick thought... Did you swap the existing injectors and FPR onto the replacement manifold?
If you've got original parts on then it could be crude in FPR.
Failing that, stick the old plugs back in... I've encountered new plugs which are FUBAR several times.
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Should add, I've not managed a decent listen as I'm at work and on a mobile but from what I heard it can't be as serious as first feared... It only shows when firing, not under cranking. Some consolation I suppose?
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The original injectors, rail and FPR are fitted, but they were transferred to the new manifold. Injectors were removed from fuel rail in the process.
During cold start the ECU will indeed be in open loop so none the wiser to the overfuelling.
When we first fired it up, after a few starts it got reluctant to start. Plugs had got quite wet. Assumed that this was due to cold start enrichment and not leaving it running for long enough but now I'm not so sure. :-/
Then the unusual sound from the FPR.
I think I have something to follow. :y
Kevin
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The original injectors, rail and FPR are fitted, but they were transferred to the new manifold. Injectors were removed from fuel rail in the process.
During cold start the ECU will indeed be in open loop so none the wiser to the overfuelling.
When we first fired it up, after a few starts it got reluctant to start. Plugs had got quite wet. Assumed that this was due to cold start enrichment and not leaving it running for long enough but now I'm not so sure. :-/
Then the unusual sound from the FPR.
I think I have something to follow. :y
Kevin
It definitely sounds fuel related... Just out of interest, did the plugs go back in the same places they were removed from after the compression test? That would rule out a dodgy plug as I assume the same cylinder is getting borewash?
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Are the plugs back to the originals now? Its got to be worth eliminating that change - esp on no.1 as easily accessible and most suspect :-/
No leads dislodged at the DISpack end..?
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It definitely sounds fuel related... Just out of interest, did the plugs go back in the same places they were removed from after the compression test? That would rule out a dodgy plug as I assume the same cylinder is getting borewash?
yes, after the compression test. Not after being dried out. :-[
If my theory is right all 6 are getting hosed down with fuel and I suspect what happened to no. 1 is that it fouled its' plug so wasn't firing at all hence it was wetter than the others.
We shall see.
Kevin
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Can injecters let to much fuel into cylinder? If it was over fueling it would make a noise like your getting. Just a stab in the dark.
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So the current things work checking are?
FPR/fuel rail clear
Swap plugs back (if old ones still around)
Temp try different leads (think 2woody had some with him and was seeing KW tonight)
If that doesn't resolve, then we could be in trouble I guess.
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
There is a spare manifold here. I have a good feeling about that theory. It stacks up quite nicely with all the symptoms.
Kevin
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
There is a spare manifold here. I have a good feeling about that theory. It stacks up quite nicely with all the symptoms.
Kevin
I'm holding my breath and crossing everything, ready for next update.
Sure a few others following this saga are sat on the edge of their seats as well ;D
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Well it's more exciting than horronation street/haemaroid farm/bellenders isn't it.
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Well it's more exciting than horronation street/haemaroid farm/bellenders isn't it.
Reckon the soups are better for my health though :'(
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Well it's more exciting than horronation street/haemaroid farm/bellenders isn't it.
Reckon the soups are better for my health though :'(
Nah having to sit through them would only put your blood pressure up. ;D
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Well it's more exciting than horronation street/haemaroid farm/bellenders isn't it.
Reckon the soups are better for my health though :'(
Nah having to sit through them would only put your blood pressure up. ;D
We could be on to something here, cracking story line, we should start a web cast with live stats on his blood pressure and heart rate ;D
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Had a listen - definitely not an end (too light) - sounds more like "piston slap" - used to get that sound if a piston ring bust.
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call now for your chance to vote
0111125 followed by
01 for plug change
02 for manifold
03 for new gaskets
04......
sorry couldn't help it but good luck on running smooth soon
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Assuming you used the manifold which originated from me, mine ran absolutely fine with it on :y
I've had another listen now I'm home... It's definitely piston slap and only apparent when engine running so there is no "Damage" from the fitting, it's now just a case of getting to the bottom of the overfuelling. I reckon the FPR, especially with the funny noise Kevin is reporting, is a good start. I don't think it's DIS/Leads related because Kevin has tested them and unlikely to be plugs as they have been swapped around during the testing ;)
Sat on the edge of my seat for the next installment
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if fuel is filling the bores , as we all know liquids are incompressible you must have a noise changing by time and getting louder.. :-/
a simple stethoscope may give better clues I think..
no more ideas :(
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
There is a spare manifold here. I have a good feeling about that theory. It stacks up quite nicely with all the symptoms.
Kevin
I'm holding my breath and crossing everything, ready for next update.
Sure a few others following this saga are sat on the edge of their seats as well ;D
Your not rather kiddin! Been kackin it all week. Finally get the call to repay some of the help you've given me over the years, and this happens. I cant believe it.
Cant imagine your two faces on start up. Unless Mr Wood is on a wind up? i reckon he's wired a set of comedy teeth to the alternater...if only.
By the way i never opened the packaging on that manifold when Ld sent it to me for my install, never even touched it. Was glad to have it as a back up though.
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
There is a spare manifold here. I have a good feeling about that theory. It stacks up quite nicely with all the symptoms.
Kevin
I'm holding my breath and crossing everything, ready for next update.
Sure a few others following this saga are sat on the edge of their seats as well ;D
Your not rather kiddin! Been kackin it all week. Finally get the call to repay some of the help you've given me over the years, and this happens. I cant believe it.
Cant imagine your two faces on start up. Unless Mr Wood is on a wind up? i reckon he's wired a set of comedy teeth to the alternater...if only.
By the way i never opened the packaging on that manifold when Ld sent it to me for my install, never even touched it. Was glad to have it as a back up though.
Seeing Mr Wood's face, if he was on a wind up, I never want to come up against him on the Poker table ;D
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its definatley no a big end its too tappy hope it goes ok for you mate you have helped so many people on here i hope it reciprocates for yu wich im sure it is im in the old codger catogary so i cant help now phisically but its def not big end i thought it sounded like injector tapping or a follower hope you sort it with all the forum batting for you im sure it will
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would a known working V6 injection manifold help? Thinking one off the 3.0 could rule out anything done to yours?
There is a spare manifold here. I have a good feeling about that theory. It stacks up quite nicely with all the symptoms.
Kevin
I'm holding my breath and crossing everything, ready for next update.
Sure a few others following this saga are sat on the edge of their seats as well ;D
Your not rather kiddin! Been kackin it all week. Finally get the call to repay some of the help you've given me over the years, and this happens. I cant believe it.
Cant imagine your two faces on start up. Unless Mr Wood is on a wind up? i reckon he's wired a set of comedy teeth to the alternater...if only.
By the way i never opened the packaging on that manifold when Ld sent it to me for my install, never even touched it. Was glad to have it as a back up though.
That's it... You pass the buck on to me :o :o :D :D :D
I'm surprised there wasn't another update to this late last night/this morning
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That's it... You pass the buck on to me :o :o :D :D :D
I'm surprised there wasn't another update to this late last night/this morning
Had already arranged for 2woody to come over and chat about Megasquirt fuel injection systems. He has kindly brought some ignition leads and a couple of coil packs just in case. :y
While talking to him I had an epiphany and realised that all this messing around with Omegas is a waste of time and that the answer has a Holden badge on the bonnet. :-* Or perhaps "Turbo R" on the boot. Not sure. :-/
I will be swapping the manifolds over tonight, if all goes well. :y
Kevin
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Any more info sounds like the one i`ve just bought for parts
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That's it... You pass the buck on to me :o :o :D :D :D
I'm surprised there wasn't another update to this late last night/this morning
Had already arranged for 2woody to come over and chat about Megasquirt fuel injection systems. He has kindly brought some ignition leads and a couple of coil packs just in case. :y
While talking to him I had an epiphany and realised that all this messing around with Omegas is a waste of time and that the answer has a Holden badge on the bonnet. :-* Or perhaps "Turbo R" on the boot. Not sure. :-/
I will be swapping the manifolds over tonight, if all goes well. :y
Kevin
Glad you managed to chat something other than the Omega :y :y
Are you thinking of a problem with LPG injector location or something? Still think you're on to something with the FPR Noise :-/ :-/
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Glad you managed to chat something other than the Omega :y :y
Are you thinking of a problem with LPG injector location or something? Still think you're on to something with the FPR Noise :-/ :-/
No. Can't see the LPG nozzles affecting things, unless one has broken off! Just have an unmodified manifold complete with injectors, FPR, etc. so might as well slap it on an eliminate the final part of the LPG work, as well as the FPR.
Kevin
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Glad you managed to chat something other than the Omega :y :y
Are you thinking of a problem with LPG injector location or something? Still think you're on to something with the FPR Noise :-/ :-/
No. Can't see the LPG nozzles affecting things, unless one has broken off! Just have an unmodified manifold complete with injectors, FPR, etc. so might as well slap it on an eliminate the final part of the LPG work, as well as the FPR.
Kevin
Ahh... That makes sense :y :y Probably just as easy as swapping the FPR on its own ;) ;)
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Glad you managed to chat something other than the Omega :y :y
Are you thinking of a problem with LPG injector location or something? Still think you're on to something with the FPR Noise :-/ :-/
No. Can't see the LPG nozzles affecting things, unless one has broken off! Just have an unmodified manifold complete with injectors, FPR, etc. so might as well slap it on an eliminate the final part of the LPG work, as well as the FPR.
Kevin
If its the ones I brought over, I can make no guarantees there aren't full of crud. They have been stacked on shelf in garage since I swipped them from Pink about a year ago :-[
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If its the ones I brought over, I can make no guarantees there aren't full of crud. They have been stacked on shelf in garage since I swipped them from Pink about a year ago :-[
OK. I'll have a look before I fit them.
Kevin
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
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completely ruled out anything cambelt related? If the sound is not there during cranking :-/ If its something in the bores should it not be there on crank?
First description sounded very much like tensioner failing on mine, worth taking the over off just to be sure? :-/
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
has the ecu/loom been touched? petrol i mean.
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Hmmm, could we be looking at engine damage due to borewash - I'd be surprised given that its only run briefly, and at idle.
Is this the end :'( ?
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Hmmm, could we be looking at engine damage due to borewash - I'd be surprised given that its only run briefly, and at idle.
Is this the end :'( ?
Not till the fat lady sings... get the head off if yo run out of options, for a look..
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Hmmm, could we be looking at engine damage due to borewash - I'd be surprised given that its only run briefly, and at idle.
Is this the end :'( ?
Not till the fat lady sings... get the head off if yo run out of options, for a look..
Nope. Time is against us, that is not an option.
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The Stoke Heaven could be its resting place....... :(
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The Stoke Heaven could be its resting place....... :(
Don't push your luck Daz!
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The Stoke Heaven could be its resting place....... :(
I'll give you £50 for it, if you chuck in the new LPG kit :D
Sorry Jaime, only kidding...
Can I do anything to help?
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
has the ecu/loom been touched? petrol i mean.
Connections made for LPG system in petrol ECU connector. Now disconnected from LPG loom. Not impossible it has shorted something in the ECU connector, I suppose. Thing is, I don't think it's running that badly now. Certainly no misfire, idles smoothly, just this damn noise. I wonder how long it would take for oil to work its' way up to the bores and quieten them after they've had a good dousing in petrol?
Thing is, I don't want to run it for too long and risk damage. :-/
Oh, tried with MAF disconnected, BTW. No different. >:(
Kevin
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
has the ecu/loom been touched? petrol i mean.
Connections made for LPG system in petrol ECU connector. Now disconnected from LPG loom. Not impossible it has shorted something in the ECU connector, I suppose. Thing is, I don't think it's running that badly now. Certainly no misfire, idles smoothly, just this damn noise. I wonder how long it would take for oil to work its' way up to the bores and quieten them after they've had a good dousing in petrol?
Thing is, I don't want to run it for too long and risk damage. :-/
Oh, tried with MAF disconnected, BTW. No different. >:(
Kevin
When I had fuel wash in one of my cars the mechanic removed all plugs and used a syringe and placed 10ml of engine oil down each plug hole, then allowed to settle for a few minutes, cranked engine for 10 seconds with plugs still removed to allow oil to cover bores again, and excess to be expelled via plug hole and exhaust valves.
After this plugs replaced and fired car up, piston knock went almost immediately.
You could try that :-)
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or use a long screw driver hold it to the rocker bolts while the engine is running then put your ear onto the end of the screw driver and this amplifies the sound keep moving the screwdriver to different points and see if the sound gets louder. I done it today on mine and it sounds like the cam shaft or rockers on the exhaust cam drivers side
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
has the ecu/loom been touched? petrol i mean.
Connections made for LPG system in petrol ECU connector. Now disconnected from LPG loom. Not impossible it has shorted something in the ECU connector, I suppose. Thing is, I don't think it's running that badly now. Certainly no misfire, idles smoothly, just this damn noise. I wonder how long it would take for oil to work its' way up to the bores and quieten them after they've had a good dousing in petrol?
Thing is, I don't want to run it for too long and risk damage. :-/
Oh, tried with MAF disconnected, BTW. No different. >:(
Kevin
When I had fuel wash in one of my cars the mechanic removed all plugs and used a syringe and placed 10ml of engine oil down each plug hole, then allowed to settle for a few minutes, cranked engine for 10 seconds with plugs still removed to allow oil to cover bores again, and excess to be expelled via plug hole and exhaust valves.
After this plugs replaced and fired car up, piston knock went almost immediately.
You could try that :-)
was going to suggest something similar, 2 stroke oil or something, just to see if the noise goes, not sure how the cats will take it though, and dont want to hydro lock the cylinder, assuming we're talking about one pot?
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Hmmm, could we be looking at engine damage due to borewash - I'd be surprised given that its only run briefly, and at idle.
Is this the end :'( ?
Not till the fat lady sings... get the head off if yo run out of options, for a look..
agreed..will be quicker than trial errors..
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Hmmm, could we be looking at engine damage due to borewash - I'd be surprised given that its only run briefly, and at idle.
Is this the end :'( ?
Not till the fat lady sings... get the head off if yo run out of options, for a look..
agreed..will be quicker than trial errors..
bore scope would save all that presumably? :-/
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Manifold and injectors swapped No change. :(
Plugs and leads next, I suppose. :-/
Kevin
has the ecu/loom been touched? petrol i mean.
Connections made for LPG system in petrol ECU connector. Now disconnected from LPG loom. Not impossible it has shorted something in the ECU connector, I suppose. Thing is, I don't think it's running that badly now. Certainly no misfire, idles smoothly, just this damn noise. I wonder how long it would take for oil to work its' way up to the bores and quieten them after they've had a good dousing in petrol?
Thing is, I don't want to run it for too long and risk damage. :-/
Oh, tried with MAF disconnected, BTW. No different. >:(
Kevin
When I had fuel wash in one of my cars the mechanic removed all plugs and used a syringe and placed 10ml of engine oil down each plug hole, then allowed to settle for a few minutes, cranked engine for 10 seconds with plugs still removed to allow oil to cover bores again, and excess to be expelled via plug hole and exhaust valves.
After this plugs replaced and fired car up, piston knock went almost immediately.
You could try that :-)
was going to suggest something similar, 2 stroke oil or something, just to see if the noise goes, not sure how the cats will take it though, and dont want to hydro lock the cylinder, assuming we're talking about one pot?
No problem if the engine is spun on the starter. Any excess will get blown out and you need a lot to hydrolock a pot anyway.
It will certainly get plenty of lubrication when the plugs come out.
IIRC the bores are only lubricated by splash (no piston jets) on this engine so may take a while to recover. Especially with cold, gloopy oil.
Kevin
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TBH, it's 99.99% certain there is no FOD or "mechanical" fault within the head/cylinder in question due to the fact it turns over quietly/normally so perhaps the suggestion of forcing oil into the bores is worth a go... Can't see it doing any harm :-/ :-/
Didn't do camcovers or anything else other than plugs did you? :-/
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similar noise here
http://www.pistonslap.com/photos.htm
not as loud or intant though :-/
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TBH, it's 99.99% certain there is no FOD or "mechanical" fault within the head/cylinder in question due to the fact it turns over quietly/normally so perhaps the suggestion of forcing oil into the bores is worth a go... Can't see it doing any harm :-/ :-/
Didn't do camcovers or anything else other than plugs did you? :-/
no just plugs and lpg related work.
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Is this MV6 a 3.0 or 3.2? (or is it a hybrid 3.0 with 3.2 manifolds?).
Having been used to a 2.5 with cast iron manifolds it came as shock to hear the first few firing pulses resonating through steel manifolds when my 2.6 starts.
I find it easy to believe that a misfire could make a deceptively nasty noise if you have the steel manifolds.
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Is this MV6 a 3.0 or 3.2? (or is it a hybrid 3.0 with 3.2 manifolds?).
Having been used to a 2.5 with cast iron manifolds it came as shock to hear the first few firing pulses resonating through steel manifolds when my 2.6 starts.
I find it easy to believe that a misfire could make a deceptively nasty noise if you have the steel manifolds.
its a 3.0, not aware of any mods. I'v hurd my old 2.5 miss fire with violent vibration, didn't sound like this.
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Kevin Wood had another look last night, with the LPG injector loom removed. Noise still present :'(
If you can play it (I can't) noise is:
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/theboy-engine.flac
Just found some speakers and had a listen.
I might have cloth ears but all I can hear is a slightly wheezy V6 with dry cam followers. No missfire. No noise from steel exhaust manifolds.
If you were a new member I would be asking the usual questions (is there oil in the sump, when was it last changed, do you have oil pressure? have you done anything to stir up crud in the sump?)
My 200,000 mile 2.5 used to sound like that for 10-15 seconds when started in freezing weather so I switched to 5w30 oil and the lifters seemed much happier. ::)
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Kevin Wood had another look last night, with the LPG injector loom removed. Noise still present :'(
If you can play it (I can't) noise is:
http://images.omegaowners.com/images/kevin/theboy-engine.flac
Just found some speakers and had a listen.
I might have cloth ears but all I can hear is a slightly wheezy V6 with dry cam followers. No missfire. No noise from steel exhaust manifolds.
If you were a new member I would be asking the usual questions (is there oil in the sump, when was it last changed, do you have oil pressure? have you done anything to stir up crud in the sump?)
My 200,000 mile 2.5 used to sound like that for 10-15 seconds when started in freezing weather so I switched to 5w30 oil and the lifters seemed much happier. ::)
Oil last changed about 1.5k ago. Oil light goes off quickly. Oil measuring on dipstick. Can't think of anything that could have done anything in sump.
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Started mine a few minutes ago to move it prior to changing the rear brakes. Had a listen with the bonnet up to remind me what it sounds like from cold.
No lifter noise
A bit of wheezing
Two seconds of piston slap? :(
10 seconds of shrieking from a belt or idler >:( (all being changed tomorrow)
Kevin's bore wash theory sounds quite convincing to me now but your sound recording does sound to me like a freshly assembled engine before the oil has had a chance to fill the lifters :-/
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In back of my mind I was beginning to dismiss the borewash theory, as Kevin has found nothing that would cause it in the first place :-/
But then, the compression had dropped on No1 to 6bar, and back up to 14bar once a teaspoon of oil added to pot, which would point towards borewash, or a very worn engine?
The reason I decided to proceed with LPG on this car was the fact the engine was a peach, despite its 162k, as those who saw the runway stunts at York last autumn will testify. No odd noises, hot or cold.
Short of replacing leads and putting original (and incorrect :o) plugs back in, I'm out of ideas completely.
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The reason I was beginning to think the borewash idea may be wrong is the noise started, iirc, immediately the car was started for the first time, not, say, 5s later.
:-/ :-/ :-/
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Surely the injectors are firing before the spark ignites? Would be trying to burn fresh air otherwise......
If injector one is overfuelling/constant running, then would that not lent credence to the borewash theory?
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Surely the injectors are firing before the spark ignites? Would be trying to burn fresh air otherwise......
If injector one is overfuelling/constant running, then would that not lent credence to the borewash theory?
Yep. However, I have checked the injector signals during cranking without the fuel pump running and they all behave as expected.
Next theory was high fuel pressure. Different manifold, fuel rail, injectors and FPR fitted.
Only other cause I can think of is overfuelling by ECU (but have tried it with MAF disconnected), blocked return line to tank (could we have crushed it?). Maybe I have resolved the issue and it just has dry bores still.
No other ideas at the moment.
Kevin
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Is fuel pressure monitored by the ECU & reported by Tech2?
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Is fuel pressure monitored by the ECU & reported by Tech2?
No
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hoping this site will give some idea :-/
http://www.pistonslap.com/
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back at home now - got in at 03.30 this morning.
Wednesday : Hexham - Newcastle - Oldham - Bristol
Thursday : Bristol to Kevin's & back
Yesterday : Bristol - Haslemere - Chiswick - Hexham
did London to Newcastle last night in 3 1/2 hours with stops. And didn't exceed 2500 rpm for the entire trip.
Back to the engine :-
Borewash. Don't go with that theory myself. Oil splash, even at idle would replenish the oil on the bores within 10 revolutions or so.
Bore wear. Nope - it'll hold compresion.
Overfuelling. This is possible, but you'd have to overfuel really drastically to constantly wash the bores. To the extent where you end up with a sump-full of fuel. Normally, any malfunction results in no fuel, not too much fuel.
FPR. The "toilet almost fuel" noise is absolutely typical of a FPR when the fuel pump is on. Anyway, a FPR malfunction would affect all cylinders.
Plug or lead. Well, yes it's possible, but I've never seen one make such a noise. Anyway, you can test them in isolation.
Cam follower. Yes, possible
Big end. Yes, possible. Well, actually I'd say very unlikely if I hadn't got a very similar problem in a car of mine. Noise sounded identical. Easy to check for if you put something down the bore and feel for the lost motion over TDC. Go on, just for me :o
Cam belt. Yes, possible that a roller could have disintegrated - I've seen this recently, too.
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Well, spent the afternoon on it.
Plugs and leads changed - no difference.
Looked for lost motion at TDC - feels fine to me.
Checked for collapsed lifter - 8 thou feeler gauge won't fit under any of the cam base circles on the noisy bank when closed. Other bank- intake valves visually checked for any obviously faulty lifters.
:-/
Kevin
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I take it you haven't checked to see whether or not the frequency of the knocking increases with revs? (Understandable, given the first instinct would be to knock the engine off!)
It's not something daft like an engine mount coming loose is it? Yes, nothing to to do with the work you've done on the engine, but maybe a cruel coincidence?
Hopefully it's summut n nowt - fingers crossed for you Jamie :y
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I take it you haven't checked to see whether or not the frequency of the knocking increases with revs? (Understandable, given the first instinct would be to knock the engine off!)
It's not something daft like an engine mount coming loose is it? Yes, nothing to to do with the work you've done on the engine, but maybe a cruel coincidence?
Hopefully it's summut n nowt - fingers crossed for you Jamie :y
noise matches revs, not audible during cranking, noise comes in the momment it fires and is there to the last revolution when turned off. We've ruled out any issues with work done one by one, and moved on to none related coincidences, cant find out wrong with it.
Although Kev added oil to drivers side bank cylinders and fired it up, quieter for a couple of seconds, just, but noise returned just the same.
We out of ideas.... :'(
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I take it you haven't checked to see whether or not the frequency of the knocking increases with revs? (Understandable, given the first instinct would be to knock the engine off!)
It's not something daft like an engine mount coming loose is it? Yes, nothing to to do with the work you've done on the engine, but maybe a cruel coincidence?
Hopefully it's summut n nowt - fingers crossed for you Jamie :y
noise matches revs, not audible during cranking, noise comes in the momment it fires and is there to the last revolution when turned off. We've ruled out any issues with work done one by one, and moved on to none related coincidences, cant find out wrong with it.
Although Kev added oil to drivers side bank cylinders and fired it up, quieter for a couple of seconds, just, but noise returned just the same.
We out of ideas.... :'(
An unlikely source of sound but it's not something catching on a pully :-/ :-/ :-/
[edit]Must be because I'm tired... Not there when cranking, so no :'( :'([/edit]
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I assume it's still no 1 cyl which is making all the noise? Just can't think what it could be any more... I was convinced it was borewash, and still think it most likely, but can't come up with a reason for it any more, unless the ecu has been upset :-/ :-/
Have you looked at live injector info with Tech 2?
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We left it running long enough yesterday to go closed loop, and from Tech2 side, no sign of overfuelling, trims looked about right, lamdas going rich/lean/rich/lean as expected.
All 3 of us agree the noise is from 1/3/5 bank, but can't agree which pot - my own feeling being 3 or 5, but so hard to pinpoint. Listening stick didn't really help either.
I think the 3 of us have now ruled out:
Foreign objects in cylinder (unless embedded in piston, and clouting head) - good compression on all 6, absolutely no sign of any damage to any plug.
Ignition - changed leads and plugs.
Overfuelling - Kevin Wood in the week has checked injectors, and changed injectors, and FPR. Tech2 data seemed normal when it went closed loop.
Lifters on the side we think the noise is (inlet and exhaust, and inlet only on 2/4/6 bank) - visually checked.
I think the 3 of us are 100% completely out of ideas as to what to try next.
:-/
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today I compared the noise from youtube against
piston slap, lifter noise etc..
the most similiar one was #1, #2 I'm afraid.. :(
#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeHxuYi-138&feature=related
#2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuiJffXOJTY
#3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_bOFOy-3Ic
#4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAq9vAjHHEk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aps-SbcPEEk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjGdBmgVDuE&feature=related benziyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzLXA4sBAKQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZ1F8V8pc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-AKcs0q6II&feature=related valve noise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZ1F8V8pc8
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this may be of absolutely no use at all, but
when i bought the courtenay turbo omega, it had a strange engine noise which is why i got it cheap, anyway the noise was very hard to pinpoint as it appeared to be coming from the cam area, and apparently the previous owner had had 2 or 3 mechanics look and listen to the engine and 2 of them were sure the noise was top end. anyway when i had it home (it drove perfectly from essex to oxford apart from the noise) and had a good look and listen and a few exploratory pokes inside, i discovered that the big end had wornbadly and the noise was the pistons just catching the valve but not actually damaging it!! so the compresssions were good and the engine ran fine would tick over all day and drive although i didnt rev it high!! have heard it on couple of other v6 engines as well, so i think yoiu could do worse than look for the same thing? :y
jm2pw
G
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this may be of absolutely no use at all, but
when i bought the courtenay turbo omega, it had a strange engine noise which is why i got it cheap, anyway the noise was very hard to pinpoint as it appeared to be coming from the cam area, and apparently the previous owner had had 2 or 3 mechanics look and listen to the engine and 2 of them were sure the noise was top end. anyway when i had it home (it drove perfectly from essex to oxford apart from the noise) and had a good look and listen and a few exploratory pokes inside, i discovered that the big end had wornbadly and the noise was the pistons just catching the valve but not actually damaging it!! so the compresssions were good and the engine ran fine would tick over all day and drive although i didnt rev it high!! have heard it on couple of other v6 engines as well, so i think yoiu could do worse than look for the same thing? :y
jm2pw
G
always appreciated, but if its bottom end damage, then its off to be made into baked bean cans :'(
I heard your turbo (black one?) the noise sounds different to me, but that was a long time ago :-/
But then I think we've explored all possibilities near the top :-/
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Now i am no expert but will throw in a theory.
Valve seating,top end crud possibly disturbed when fitting injectors etc and then a particle preventing a less than perfect seal or a piece of crud departed from what was a perfect seal,this then perhaps overcome by adding oil to the cylinder.So head off and overhauled or just drive it potentially allowing it to improve.Worst case scenario (as i am having a wild guess) is the engine destroys itself but in the absence of any other cures and head renovation not being cost effective then there doesn`t seem a lot to lose.
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Have you tried running it with each plug lead disconnected in turn to ascertain which cylinder it is?
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Have you tried running it with each plug lead disconnected in turn to ascertain which cylinder it is?
There is no misfire.
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Have you tried running it with each plug lead disconnected in turn to ascertain which cylinder it is?
There is no misfire.
There might not be a misfire, but removing the spark from the offending cylinder will give you an indication of whether the noise is occuring under load or not
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this may be of absolutely no use at all, but
when i bought the courtenay turbo omega, it had a strange engine noise which is why i got it cheap, anyway the noise was very hard to pinpoint as it appeared to be coming from the cam area, and apparently the previous owner had had 2 or 3 mechanics look and listen to the engine and 2 of them were sure the noise was top end. anyway when i had it home (it drove perfectly from essex to oxford apart from the noise) and had a good look and listen and a few exploratory pokes inside, i discovered that the big end had wornbadly and the noise was the pistons just catching the valve but not actually damaging it!! so the compresssions were good and the engine ran fine would tick over all day and drive although i didnt rev it high!! have heard it on couple of other v6 engines as well, so i think yoiu could do worse than look for the same thing? :y
jm2pw
G
always appreciated, but if its bottom end damage, then its off to be made into baked bean cans :'(
I heard your turbo (black one?) the noise sounds different to me, but that was a long time ago :-/
But then I think we've explored all possibilities near the top :-/
we placed an extension bar down the plug hole with all plugs removed and turned the engine over by hand via the crank pully bolt, feeling for loss of motion at top and bottom dead centre via the extension bar, and wrocking back and forth on the crank pulley bolt, all nice and tight no loss of motion on any cylinder.
Expecting bottom end crank bearing noise to be deader deeper noise than what we have, if that makes sense.
There are no visible marks on the piston crowns wnen looking line of sight through the plug hole.
However not sure if this engine has half moon valve shape cut outs in the piston crowns, we could not see any, so not sure if the a valve mark collision in the piston crown would be visible via the plug hole. Its not possible to see the piston full area via the plug hole via line of site. The piston crown is curently wet with oil so any marks would be shown if in line of site.
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Now i am no expert but will throw in a theory.
Valve seating,top end crud possibly disturbed when fitting injectors etc and then a particle preventing a less than perfect seal or a piece of crud departed from what was a perfect seal,this then perhaps overcome by adding oil to the cylinder.So head off and overhauled or just drive it potentially allowing it to improve.Worst case scenario (as i am having a wild guess) is the engine destroys itself but in the absence of any other cures and head renovation not being cost effective then there doesn`t seem a lot to lose.
Just driving it was the original plan, with brake down cover. But we had time and opertunity to investigate further. Seemed a bit of a waste if it did explode. Personally i want to know whats up with it. But there comes a point when its not worth preceeding. If we remove the head and find or repair nothing, put it back together and its the same, whats the point?
If we remove the head and find damage, is it worth repairing....?
Car isnt worth a great deal and needs rear donut bushes.
But it was only another couple of hours work to get the lpg up and running.
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Certainly doesn't sound deep enough for bottom end damage and, TBH, I'm not convinced it's damage at all :-/ :-/
Had you not tried different injectors I would have said that there was a bad injector... I've encountered it on a Transit in the past and it sounded just like it.
I'm lost :'( :'(
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Certainly doesn't sound deep enough for bottom end damage and, TBH, I'm not convinced it's damage at all :-/ :-/
Had you not tried different injectors I would have said that there was a bad injector... I've encountered it on a Transit in the past and it sounded just like it.
I'm lost :'( :'(
Kevin has tried an entire new inlet manifold, with injectors, fpr and fuel rail
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So, lets try to pin point the cylinder.
Get it running and bung tech 2 on....cut the cylinders 1 at a time.
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So, lets try to pin point the cylinder.
Get it running and bung tech 2 on....cut the cylinders 1 at a time.
The 'hi tech' version of pulling the plug leads one at a time ;)
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So, lets try to pin point the cylinder.
Get it running and bung tech 2 on....cut the cylinders 1 at a time.
The 'hi tech' version of pulling the plug leads one at a time ;)
.. and I wish I'd remembered it before stripping it down to look for lifter problems. ::)
Kevin
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just come across this, It might help if you have to strip it down. Vauxhall V6 Engine Course.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/?lzzmyzymmdt
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So, lets try to pin point the cylinder.
Get it running and bung tech 2 on....cut the cylinders 1 at a time.
The 'hi tech' version of pulling the plug leads one at a time ;)
.. and I wish I'd remembered it before stripping it down to look for lifter problems. ::)
Kevin
i'm free evenings this week kev....but do we rebiuid, or dismantel further?
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mine sounded JUST like a stuck lifter. It certainly had me fooled.
Last week, I took the sump off just to have a look-see. Now despite having to drop the subframe, it only took a couple of hours off and a couple on again - and I was able to put in some bearings as well, which cured 90% of the knocking.
I'm back down south again next week - I'd be pleased to come and do the same for you - you can't throw it away just because of a big-end failure.
as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.
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mine sounded JUST like a stuck lifter. It certainly had me fooled.
Last week, I took the sump off just to have a look-see. Now despite having to drop the subframe, it only took a couple of hours off and a couple on again - and I was able to put in some bearings as well, which cured 90% of the knocking.
I'm back down south again next week - I'd be pleased to come and do the same for you - you can't throw it away just because of a big-end failure.
as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.
definitely..
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as well as that, I now have five spare con-rods, so if it's spun a bearing, then you can have one of those. OK, so you've got to pull the head off, but it's relatively easy.
Well worth bearing in mind. Thanks. :y
Couldn't feel any play in the bottom end using your suggested method but the top end of that bank looks to have nothing wrong, so I suspect something piston/rod/bearing related.
Kevin
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Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.
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this may be of absolutely no use at all, but
when i bought the courtenay turbo omega, it had a strange engine noise which is why i got it cheap, anyway the noise was very hard to pinpoint as it appeared to be coming from the cam area, and apparently the previous owner had had 2 or 3 mechanics look and listen to the engine and 2 of them were sure the noise was top end. anyway when i had it home (it drove perfectly from essex to oxford apart from the noise) and had a good look and listen and a few exploratory pokes inside, i discovered that the big end had wornbadly and the noise was the pistons just catching the valve but not actually damaging it!! so the compresssions were good and the engine ran fine would tick over all day and drive although i didnt rev it high!! have heard it on couple of other v6 engines as well, so i think yoiu could do worse than look for the same thing? :y
jm2pw
G
always appreciated, but if its bottom end damage, then its off to be made into baked bean cans :'(
I heard your turbo (black one?) the noise sounds different to me, but that was a long time ago :-/
But then I think we've explored all possibilities near the top :-/
we placed an extension bar down the plug hole with all plugs removed and turned the engine over by hand via the crank pully bolt, feeling for loss of motion at top and bottom dead centre via the extension bar, and wrocking back and forth on the crank pulley bolt, all nice and tight no loss of motion on any cylinder.
Expecting bottom end crank bearing noise to be deader deeper noise than what we have, if that makes sense.
There are no visible marks on the piston crowns wnen looking line of sight through the plug hole.
However not sure if this engine has half moon valve shape cut outs in the piston crowns, we could not see any, so not sure if the a valve mark collision in the piston crown would be visible via the plug hole. Its not possible to see the piston full area via the plug hole via line of site. The piston crown is curently wet with oil so any marks would be shown if in line of site.
that threw me as well no loss of mvement and discernible play on the bottom end just the tapping at the top, however when the engine was stinking hot you could hear the bottom end rumble ove4r the top of the tapping from the cams? if that makes sense?
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Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.
it is indeed easy to do :-[ new(new to the car, but used) leads where not original, not numbered and the lengths where all wrong, got 4 and 6 arse backwards initially. Once corrected it ran ok, except for the noise of course.
Seen a couple of omegas with bad missfires now, none made a noise like this.
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Just a thought, but you could have accidentaly mixed up the firing order if you have changed the plugs. Easy to do if you have aftermarket leads. If a cylinder fires too early on the compression stroke it can make a horrific piston slap noise that sounds like something far more serious.
I know this from experience as I once had a 2 litre pinto engine in a Transit that had blown the head gasket between cylinders, and one cylinder was igniting the other. it sounded so bad I took the sump off before the head as I was so convinced I would find a loose bearing cap or similar.
They are correct (now!), but the noise was there with the original, undisturbed leads.
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what's the latest Kevin ~?
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what's the latest Kevin ~?
Haven't had a chance to do any more diagnosis. Plan is for it to be collected tomorrow and taken to Mark'sDTM for him to have a look.
In summary, sounds like the driver's side bank is the cluprit, collapsed lifter was the latest theory but we've had the cam cover off the driver's side and no excessive valve clearances found.
Idle was slightly unstable but we found the brake servo hose had chafed causing an air leak. Taped this up and it idles rock solid but noisy. :(
Have also visually checked the intake valves moving on the passenger side bank - all OK. No signs of a failed lifter. Could be a collapsed lifter on one of the exhaust valves on that bank, I guess.
Failing that it's surgery of a more major variety. :(
Kevin
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This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.
I will probably not get chance to look at it until Monday.....but you never know.
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This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.
I will probably not get chance to look at it until Monday.....but you never know.
Does she know yet? ;D ;D ;D
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This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.
/whisper mode whats the tyres like on this Mark? I need to swap my fronts. Also is there any play in the steering box, he wouldnt notice if I swapped it as he rarely has the wheels pointing straight ahead /whisper mode
Give me a shout when you are ready to start Mark, I could do with a laugh break from kitchen fitting.
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This should be arriving to take up SWMBO's parking spot on Thursday.
/whisper mode whats the tyres like on this Mark? I need to swap my fronts. Also is there any play in the steering box, he wouldnt notice if I swapped it as he rarely has the wheels pointing straight ahead /whisper mode
Give me a shout when you are ready to start Mark, I could do with a laugh break from kitchen fitting.
There's no play in the steering box. I compared it to mine. ::) In fact....Arggh No, the steering box is shot, and it looks like some cowboy has swapped it for a facelift one. ;)
Kevin
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seems the borescope thing aint happening, unfortunately, keeps saying he'll "bring it in tomorrow" which obviously leaves no time now even if he does remember.
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seems the borescope thing aint happening, unfortunately, keeps saying he'll "bring it in tomorrow" which obviously leaves no time now even if he does remember.
Never mind. Thanks for trying. :y
Kevin
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seems the borescope thing aint happening, unfortunately, keeps saying he'll "bring it in tomorrow" which obviously leaves no time now even if he does remember.
Never mind. Thanks for trying. :y
Kevin
its a shame, would have been good to play with, 4k worth apparently, :o and nose around the bores. In reality though, not much we could do if we found something anyway i guess.
On the one hand i'm desperate to know whats up with it, and on the other i'm not sure i whant to know at all. AAAAAAAAH! :-/
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seems the borescope thing aint happening, unfortunately, keeps saying he'll "bring it in tomorrow" which obviously leaves no time now even if he does remember.
Never mind. Thanks for trying. :y
Kevin
its a shame, would have been good to play with, 4k worth apparently, :o and nose around the bores. In reality though, not much we could do if we found something anyway i guess.
On the one hand i'm desperate to know whats up with it, and on the other i'm not sure i whant to know at all. AAAAAAAAH! :-/
I'm sure MDTM will find the reason for the noise. I just hope the subsequent rebuilding is economically viable, as I am **REALLY* missing that car :'(
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Would Mark be able to measure the oil pressure?
On the sound recording I listened to I could hear wheezing and dry tappets. The chaffed vacuum hose explains the wheezing. Maybe poor oil pressure would account for the tappets?
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Would Mark be able to measure the oil pressure?
On the sound recording I listened to I could hear wheezing and dry tappets. The chaffed vacuum hose explains the wheezing. Maybe poor oil pressure would account for the tappets?
But why... They didn't do anything in that area and it ran sweet as a nut before hand :-/ :-/ I know, because I've driven it and it drives drove like a car with about 40k on the clock
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seems to be a good coating of oil on cams etc, both banks
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Would Mark be able to measure the oil pressure?
On the sound recording I listened to I could hear wheezing and dry tappets. The chaffed vacuum hose explains the wheezing. Maybe poor oil pressure would account for the tappets?
But why... They didn't do anything in that area and it ran sweet as a nut before hand :-/ :-/ I know, because I've driven it and it drives drove like a car with about 40k on the clock
Coincidences do happen.....
The most frustrating problem solving excercises I have experienced have been the result of not checking something simple because I knew it couldn't be wrong. >:(
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seems to be a good coating of oil on cams etc, both banks
I may be wrong but I think the lifters need pressure to pump them up. :-/
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seems to be a good coating of oil on cams etc, both banks
I may be wrong but I think the lifters need pressure to pump them up. :-/
Yup. But then Kevin Wood has checked the lifters, and all on drivers side appear to be fine
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seems to be a good coating of oil on cams etc, both banks
I may be wrong but I think the lifters need pressure to pump them up. :-/
Yup. But then Kevin Wood has checked the lifters, and all on drivers side appear to be fine
By 'fine' do you mean undamaged or quiet?
My thinking is that something random has happened (such as the pressure relief valve in the oil pump sticking open for example) that allows oil circulation to continue (keeping crank bearings and camshafts lubricated) but not creating enough pressure to make the lifters go quiet.
I admit to clutching at straws but Kevin has already swapped all the gas related components and measuring the oil pressure wouldn't require stripping the engine.
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I admit to clutching at straws but Kevin has already swapped all the gas related components and measuring the oil pressure wouldn't require stripping the engine.
Judging by the amount of oil that appeared around the cams with just a little cranking there's not much wrong with the oil system. The sound isn't consistent with oil starvation where we would have every lifter complaining IMHO.
Kevin
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Would Mark be able to measure the oil pressure?
On the sound recording I listened to I could hear wheezing and dry tappets. The chaffed vacuum hose explains the wheezing. Maybe poor oil pressure would account for the tappets?
But why... They didn't do anything in that area and it ran sweet as a nut before hand :-/ :-/ I know, because I've driven it and it drives drove like a car with about 40k on the clock
Coincidences do happen.....
The most frustrating problem solving excercises I have experienced have been the result of not checking something simple because I knew it couldn't be wrong. >:(
we came round to that way of thinking after eliminating the lpg related stuff, and is why we removed the cam cover to check the lifters, all tight to the cam lobes at the lowest point, there was a pool of oil sitting nicely round the cam lobes/lifters, all cam cap bolts tight.
Other thoughts where to check cam timing, again not touched by anyone, but if the valves where striking piston would it run as well as it was? (changed my oil today and noted my engine vibrates more than TB's does with this noise presant iirc)
FOD in the cylinder, only way this could still be possible is if it hadnt damaged a valve i guess? ie something small enough to sit between exhaust valves on the tilted lowest side of the bore and wedge itself in piston crown or head squish area making the piston rock at tdc. Kevin had full compression and no plug damage though so... :-/ .....lets hope Mark can finds a cost effective answer.
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
leads are currently fitted afaik? didnt fit coil pack.
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
leads are currently fitted afaik? didnt fit coil pack.
Yes, Jaime wanted to hang on to a spare coil pack and set of leads just in case so I gave him the lot so it's all together. He's aware they are yours. :y
Well, they are on their way. Jaime is currently being indoctrinated with Rick Astley by way of Darth's CD changer no doubt. I wonder if he'll end up a fan? ;D
Kevin
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
leads are currently fitted afaik? didnt fit coil pack.
Yes, Jaime wanted to hang on to a spare coil pack and set of leads just in case so I gave him the lot so it's all together. He's aware they are yours. :y
Well, they are on their way. Jaime is currently being indoctrinated with Rick Astley by way of Darth's CD changer no doubt. I wonder if he'll end up a fan? ;D
Kevin
Or will Daz become a nooby again for the auditory torture? ;D
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
leads are currently fitted afaik? didnt fit coil pack.
Yes, Jaime wanted to hang on to a spare coil pack and set of leads just in case so I gave him the lot so it's all together. He's aware they are yours. :y
Well, they are on their way. Jaime is currently being indoctrinated with Rick Astley by way of Darth's CD changer no doubt. I wonder if he'll end up a fan? ;D
Kevin
Or will Daz become a nooby again for the auditory torture? ;D
He'll have put the music on because, according to Daz, he was getting fed up of TheBoy trying to talk him into becoming an Admin on the way down. ;D
TheBoy's obviously resolved the ear-warmer issue then, I guess? :D
Kevin
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
Yes, I currently have them if thats OK, just to assist with further diagnosis :y
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did my coils and leads go with it ?
leads are currently fitted afaik? didnt fit coil pack.
Yes, Jaime wanted to hang on to a spare coil pack and set of leads just in case so I gave him the lot so it's all together. He's aware they are yours. :y
Well, they are on their way. Jaime is currently being indoctrinated with Rick Astley by way of Darth's CD changer no doubt. I wonder if he'll end up a fan? ;D
Kevin
Not sure whats worse - The Rick Astley CD, or Pink's singing along at full volume! I wanted to walk home :-X
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TheBoy's obviously resolved the ear-warmer issue then, I guess? :D
Did you not notice I was walking funny?
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For those following this saga, the car has just left Brackley about 45mins ago, heading for a (hopefully short) holiday to Nottingham. In fact, about now, should just be going past the M45/M6 junctions on the M1 I suspect.
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For those following this saga, the car has just left Brackley about 45mins ago, heading for a (hopefully short) holiday to Nottingham. In fact, about now, should just be going past the M45/M6 junctions on the M1 I suspect.
Glad you got that far safely, at least. :y
Kevin
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For those following this saga, the car has just left Brackley about 45mins ago, heading for a (hopefully short) holiday to Nottingham. In fact, about now, should just be going past the M45/M6 junctions on the M1 I suspect.
Glad you got that far safely, at least. :y
Kevin
Yeah, nightmare journey. Rick Astley all the way...
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Was this trailered, dollied or bar-towed ??? Just out of interest .. :)
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For those following this saga, the car has just left Brackley about 45mins ago, heading for a (hopefully short) holiday to Nottingham. In fact, about now, should just be going past the M45/M6 junctions on the M1 I suspect.
Glad you got that far safely, at least. :y
Kevin
Yeah, nightmare journey. Rick Astley all the way...
Least it'd be a change from ABBA. ;D ;D
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Got home from the heritage centre at 11.00 last night, climbed out the car and fell over a silver lump that had been abandoned in the drive!
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Got home from the heritage centre at 11.00 last night, climbed out the car and fell over a silver lump that had been abandoned in the drive!
Ring the Council mate they will get rid of it for you
:y
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Got home from the heritage centre at 11.00 last night, climbed out the car and fell over a silver lump that had been abandoned in the drive!
Now I know thats a lie, unless Pink accidentally drove through a carwash ;D
Good to hear it got their :y
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Got home from the heritage centre at 11.00 last night, climbed out the car and fell over a silver lump that had been abandoned in the drive!
Now I know thats a lie, unless Pink accidentally drove through a carwash ;D
Good to hear it got their :y
I think the driver's side has been well polished by the @rse of my overalls brushing past it in the garage. ;D
Kevin
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Any updates over the weekend? :(
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No work done over teh weekend as I was not in Nottingham.
Might get a chance to have a look this evening.
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Really interested in this as I'm completely baffled as to what's happened!
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I think I need to buy some new fingernails :-[
;D
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I think I need to buy some new fingernails :-[
;D
Better than telly :y :y
When do you go away for your holiday?
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I think I need to buy some new fingernails :-[
;D
I would have finished my fingers completely ;D :y
staying curious also here :-/
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worn out the carpet paseing up n down...
no pressure Mark. ;) ;D..... :(
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You need a car with some proper, conclusive faults. ;) Like practically every chassis member forward of the bulkhead bent. Crikey, one of the front shock absorber mounts has bent a bulge in a 6" length of 1" square section steel tube, it must have bottomed out so hard..
Nosecone collected enough soil to grow a few tomato plants, I reckon.
Miraculously, damage appears to be limited to the chassis and not much more. I reckon the nosecone is even repairable. Have sourced some wishbones and a steering rack 2nd hand. Will be replacing the front shocks in the light of the loads they have clearly experienced, I think.
I'm becoming quite surprised that the biomechanical seat-to-steering-wheel interface wasn't damaged, or at least a little more shaken up. :o
Kevin
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cant help think, from the damage, that the wheel took most of the wollop, perhaps?
if you fancy some help at any point just shout. Or even just a curry. ;) oh and that kingfisher, wow.
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Pleased to hear the damage is repairable Kevin
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I'm becoming quite surprised that the biomechanical seat-to-steering-wheel interface wasn't damaged, or at least a little more shaken up. :o
What about the membrane material between the seat and the organic matter sat in it? Enough mud in that for tomatos?
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What about the membrane material between the seat and the organic matter sat in it? Enough mud in that for tomatos?
In that department the ABS system appears to have functioned (not even the slightest skid). :-X
:)
Kevin
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What about the membrane material between the seat and the organic matter sat in it? Enough mud in that for tomatos?
In that department the ABS system appears to have functioned (not even the slightest skid). :-X
:)
Kevin
;D ;D ;D ;D
Glad to hear things are repairable .... :y :y :y
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What about the membrane material between the seat and the organic matter sat in it? Enough mud in that for tomatos?
In that department the ABS system appears to have functioned (not even the slightest skid). :-X
:)
Kevin
Hmmm, practically the only thing left unmarked then? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Am I missing something here?
I want to know about the gripping saga with TB's car, can we forget the commercial break and get back to the action. :)
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Am I missing something here?
I want to know about the gripping saga with TB's car, can we forget the commercial break and get back to the action. :)
Tell em matey. ;D ;D
254 replies
6739 views
Obviously some concern/interest.
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Its getting unbearable we need to know!!! ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Friday evening will be my first look at it....
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Bugger it!, I saw Marks DTM & thought 'it's all over', how frustrating!! :D
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Just found the oil filler neck lurking in my garage. Can't see it being a showstopper but if required I'm happy to pop it in the post. :y
Kevin
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Just found the oil filler neck lurking in my garage. Can't see it being a showstopper but if required I'm happy to pop it in the post. :y
Kevin
ah, thats supposed to be on the engine ;D
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Just found the oil filler neck lurking in my garage. Can't see it being a showstopper but if required I'm happy to pop it in the post. :y
Kevin
ah, thats supposed to be on the engine ;D
.. along with everything that's in the boot. :-[
Kevin
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where was it? same place as the magnet on a stick?...i hope? :-/ ;)
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Kevin..... break off. ;D
Mark we wait with baited breath. :D (thank god you're in Nottingham).
TB when you pick it up from Mark let's all go for beer, and hopefully toast a successful resolution .
This is compulsive every night before the Cocoa ( sorry STELLA)
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where was it? same place as the magnet on a stick?...i hope? :-/ ;)
Magnet on stick remains elusive. Oh, I've found a couple of TheBoy's screwdrivers, though.
Kevin
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Kevin..... break off. ;D
:o
You're going to be climbing the walls by the time Friday comes. ;D
Kevin
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I know, but it's my birthday so after a bottle of Edradour I can wait until Saturday ;D
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Am I missing something here?
I want to know about the gripping saga with TB's car, can we forget the commercial break and get back to the action. :)
Tell em matey. ;D ;D
254 replies
6739 views
Obviously some concern/interest.
yeah...imagine if i've breaked TB's engine, some forign body in there that i've had a hand on....or what ever...turns out its my fault...in front of all of oofdom....ffs.
We could do without this issue, obviously, was within a couple of hours of finished as well, 2days. Alright 2 long days.
Still, filler behind the number plate looks nice though ::)
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where was it? same place as the magnet on a stick?...i hope? :-/ ;)
Magnet on stick remains elusive. Oh, I've found a couple of TheBoy's screwdrivers, though.
Kevin
No sign of sammy ?
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No sign of sammy ?
Funnily enough I was looking, unsuccessfully, for my "rubber sammy" last night. (the one I use when it's certainly a sammy moment but the article concerned is a bit expensive for a proper sammying.)
Kevin
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"rubber Sammy". ?
I think i may have joined this conversation at the wrong time.
another trip down south coming up soon - MoD then collect red Omega from Poole to drive home in [smiley=rolleyes.gif]
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"rubber Sammy". ?
I think i may have joined this conversation at the wrong time.
Ahh. :-[
Sammy as in Samuel Sledgehammer. A tool used by TheBoy for resolving irritating printer driver issues until a couple of years back when it was taken away from him for his own good kidnapped.
I have a smaller rubber version which does less damage.
another trip down south coming up soon - MoD then collect red Omega from Poole to drive home in [smiley=rolleyes.gif]
So, another one to add to the collection? ;D
You know where I am if you fancy a cuppa or need a lift. :y
Kevin
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So, another one to add to the collection? ;D
You know where I am if you fancy a cuppa or need a lift. :y
Kevin
it a car specifically for LPG / supercharger and Megasquirt experimentation.
I can sell the MV6 and both Elites then
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where was it? same place as the magnet on a stick?...i hope? :-/ ;)
Didn't we decide the telescopic magnet was rattling around in the cylinders, making a nasty knocking noise when the engine starts ;D ;D ;D
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where was it? same place as the magnet on a stick?...i hope? :-/ ;)
Didn't we decide the telescopic magnet was rattling around in the cylinders, making a nasty knocking noise when the engine starts ;D ;D ;D
oh, yes. That was it. :y
Kevin
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Kevin, deny any knowledge of the magnety thing on a stick mate!!!!
At least untill mark finds out what the problem is. ;D
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Interesting.....just had a quick look.
The crank becomes harder to turn once the No 1 exhaust comes on cam.....and at no other point during the 2 rotations of the cam.
Found a few bits of sealer etc on the inlet valve (may well be un-related).
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has anyone thought about a broken valve spring ?
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Did a quick check on the followers......there all sitting at the correct height off cam.......but, I am tempted to whip the cams out and have a closer inspection.
Given the findings so far....it looks less like bottom end by the day.
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Interesting.....just had a quick look.
The crank becomes harder to turn once the No 1 exhaust comes on cam.....and at no other point during the 2 rotations of the cam.
Found a few bits of sealer etc on the inlet valve (may well be un-related).
Not quite sure what that would signify? A lifter 'pumped up' too much, or seized whilst too 'expanded'?
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Or an exhaust valve that doesn't like to open for some reason?
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Or an exhaust valve that doesn't like to open for some reason?
More like it!
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when I did this last car, I suspected a broken valve spring for a while.
you can't see much with the followers removed, but could be just enough if the break was at the top.
Then again, there's always one of those spark-plug compressed air adapters to let you take the spring and retainer out......
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Or an exhaust valve that doesn't like to open for some reason?
More like it!
Hmmm, sure the missing telescopic magnet is too big to do that ;D
Head off again?
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I think the head is coming off soon!
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Or a bent exhaust valve ?? Foreign object damage ??
:(
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I think the head is coming off soon!
At least it should pop off easily - not that long ago the HGs were changed!!!
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I think the heads will stay where they are!
It cant be a bent valve, the compression is to good.
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I think the heads will stay where they are!
It cant be a bent valve, the compression is to good.
Ooooooohhhhh, I hate it when you know something I don't ;D ;D
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this is definitely happening when going past EVO in a clockwise direction ?
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I think the heads will stay where they are!
It cant be a bent valve, the compression is to good.
This, allied to the stiffness in rotation, does still suggest FOD inside trying to prevent valve opening fully.
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
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Interesting.....just had a quick look.
The crank becomes harder to turn once the No 1 exhaust comes on cam.....and at no other point during the 2 rotations of the cam.
Found a few bits of sealer etc on the inlet valve (may well be un-related).
Interesting indeed.
The sealant might well have been me. I slapped the cam cover, manifold and plenum back on pretty hastily before it was moved.
Perhaps something in the valve train has siezed, although it's difficult to imagine how it would create enough resistance to the valve opening that it can be felt at the crank, yet allow the valve to close tightly under the force of the spring. :-/
Kevin
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
3000 hours as an F/E. :y
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this is definitely happening when going past EVO in a clockwise direction ?
Yes.
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Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
3000 hours as an F/E. :y
A REAL trade.. :) (but only 3000 hours!! get some time in son !!) :)
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I think the heads will stay where they are!
It cant be a bent valve, the compression is to good.
This, allied to the stiffness in rotation, does still suggest FOD inside trying to prevent valve opening fully.
Although being aware of you guys' professionalism, I do not think this can be the answer. :-/
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Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
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Ok..
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
3000 hours as an F/E. :y
A REAL trade.. :) (but only 3000 hours!! get some time in son !!) :)
Night!!! Plus Nimrod, 707, L1011 :y :y :y 8-) 8-) 8-) ::) ::) ::)
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
3000 hours as an F/E. :y
A REAL trade.. :) (but only 3000 hours!! get some time in son !!) :)
plane named after my great great grandad !
I'm also interested because I'm currently doing *ahem* some work on it's successor.
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what's the Shack all about in the photo ?
3000 hours as an F/E. :y
A REAL trade.. :) (but only 3000 hours!! get some time in son !!) :)
plane named after my great great grandad !
I'm also interested because I'm currently doing *ahem* some work on it's successor.
Sir Ernest is my hero, and I met his son also. Congratulations on your great ancestor. :y :y :y
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Did a quick check on the followers......there all sitting at the correct height off cam.......but, I am tempted to whip the cams out and have a closer inspection.
Given the findings so far....it looks less like bottom end by the day.
good news :)
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The sound recording sounded like all the lifters were empty of oil to me :-/ Is it possible that No1 Exhaust is the only 'normal' pair of lifters and the other 22 are lacking oil pressure?
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Did a quick check on the followers......there all sitting at the correct height off cam.......but, I am tempted to whip the cams out and have a closer inspection.
Given the findings so far....it looks less like bottom end by the day.
good news :)
Aye, after this morning's revelations, I am a bit more optimistic :y
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Something must be happening, I can't bear the suspense! Please put us out of our misery. :D :D :D :o :o :o :y :y :y
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Something must be happening, I can't bear the suspense! Please put us out of our misery. :D :D :D :o :o :o :y :y :y
I suspect mdtm has more important things to do on a sat morning ;)
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Something must be happening, I can't bear the suspense! Please put us out of our misery. :D :D :D :o :o :o :y :y :y
I suspect mdtm has more important things to do on a sat morning ;)
Involving half a dozen cans of "start ya batsrad" and a lot of claggy tractor smoke no doubt. ;)
Kevin
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Something must be happening, I can't bear the suspense! Please put us out of our misery. :D :D :D :o :o :o :y :y :y
I suspect mdtm has more important things to do on a sat morning ;)
Involving half a dozen cans of "start ya batsrad" and a lot of claggy tractor smoke no doubt. ;)
Kevin
I think the current work involves playing with a MIG
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Something must be happening, I can't bear the suspense! Please put us out of our misery. :D :D :D :o :o :o :y :y :y
I suspect mdtm has more important things to do on a sat morning ;)
Involving half a dozen cans of "start ya batsrad" and a lot of claggy tractor smoke no doubt. ;)
Kevin
I think the current work involves playing with a MIG
welding trains perhaps? did he say they had access to a bore scope on the trains.? or am i obsessing on this now?
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Come on Mr DTM.....update please...
This thread has got to page 3 ::) :)
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
Ahh...thankyou :)
You obviously think, that TB, got Evans Halshaw a cowboy to change his cambelt :-X ;)
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Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
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Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
no need to touch it as far as the install goes, we did discuss taking the cover off for timing and forign body in the belt, but was very late in the day...
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
Ahh...thankyou :)
You obviously think, that TB, got Evans Halshaw a cowboy to change his cambelt :-X ;)
it was done at Newent...
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
Ahh...thankyou :)
You obviously think, that TB, got Evans Halshaw a cowboy to change his cambelt :-X ;)
it was done at Newent...
So it's the Gnome's fault then ::) ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X ;D ;D ;D
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Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
Errr guys, the very first reply on this huge thread.....
similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
Ahh...thankyou :)
You obviously think, that TB, got Evans Halshaw a cowboy to change his cambelt :-X ;)
it was done at Newent...
So it's the Gnome's fault then ::) ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X ;D ;D ;D
Who's this character then LD?
;)
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Started stripping the cambelt area down.....I have a suspicion
Ahh...thankyou :)
You obviously think, that TB, got Evans Halshaw a cowboy to change his cambelt :-X ;)
it was done at Newent...
So it's the Gnome's fault then ::) ::) ::) :-X :-X :-X ;D ;D ;D
Who's this character then LD?
;)
Zok Junior, Tony Gnome, who did the belt change... And I'm only kidding, it was fine. I got him to show me as I knew mine was due soon :y :y
-
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
We spent most of our time backtracking changes we had made during the install. Cam belt was not touched and therefore failure would have to have been a huge coincidence.
Everything we have changed is now covered, I believe, so it's time to start considering such coincidences.
Kevin
-
how ironic would it be on a twenty, or thirty something page thread, first reply was spot on? ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
how ironic would it be on a twenty, or thirty something page thread, first reply was spot on? ;D ;D ;D ;D
indeed it would be, but the noise was not coming from that area, seemed to centre on pot 1 or 3 if anything? But noises can be hard to pin point, as we know...
-
I have heard something similar once when I left a cam pulley un-tightened and started it up.
pretty soon worked out what it was, though !
-
Zok Junior, Tony Gnome, who did the belt change... And I'm only kidding, it was fine. I got him to show me as I knew mine was due soon :y :y[/quote]
Now I remember the lad ........
That's it - he and dad came over to our field to borrow my trolley jack for TB at Newent 2009.
Zok senior carried the handle, and poor 'junior' ended up lugging the rest - Mrs Sethsmate was in stitches laughing!
:D :D ;D ;D
She did feel sorry for the lad though .......
:y
-
::)
patience please ;D
lets wait what Mr DTM will find.. :y
ps: cant work in job checking this thread , be quick ;D ;D
-
As of a week today, I will be able to devote some more time to this.....
-
nothing bad I hope
-
...
.....
That's it - he and dad came over to our field to borrow my trolley jack for TB.
Zok senior carried the handle, and poor 'junior' ended up lugging the rest - ....
that'll definitely be CaptZok! ;D ;D ;D
-
Zok Junior, Tony Gnome, who did the belt change... And I'm only kidding, it was fine. I got him to show me as I knew mine was due soon :y :y
Now I remember the lad ........
.....
That's it - he and dad came over to our field to borrow my trolley jack for TB.
Zok senior carried the handle, and poor 'junior' ended up lugging the rest - ....
that'll definitely be CaptZok! ;D ;D ;D[/quote]
Well, you don't have an apprentice and carry your own jack, surely? ;D
Kevin
-
As of a week today, I will be able to devote some more time to this.....
We all know how busy you are and that you'll get to the bottom of it :y :y
But the suspense is killing us ;D ;D ;D
-
Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
Errr guys, the very first reply on this huge thread.....
similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
if Tunnie was correct we'll never hear the end of it ;D ;D ;D
-
Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
Errr guys, the very first reply on this huge thread.....
similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
if Tunnie was correct we'll never hear the end of it ;D ;D ;D
::) ::) ;D
-
Kevin, was the cambelt setup all checked?
No. We didn't check the cam belt.
Kevin
I am still suprised you guys never checked this, how come? :-?
Errr guys, the very first reply on this huge thread.....
similar to the noise my 2.2 had a while back? Cambelt tensioner?
if Tunnie was correct we'll never hear the end of it ;D ;D ;D
It'll make a change ;D ;D
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
engine has to run to hear the knock ;D
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
engine has to run to hear the knock ;D
Its hush silence, could the useless student be right on the first reply ;D
-
As of a week today, I will be able to devote some more time to this.....
methinks this might be the reason for the silence ?? :)
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
engine has to run to hear the knock ;D
Its hush silence, could the useless student be right on the first reply ;D
and if he is then TB will probably be round to tie him up and gag him. ;D ;D ;D
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
engine has to run to hear the knock ;D
Its hush silence, could the useless student be right on the first reply ;D
and if he is then TB will probably be round to tie him up and gag him. ;D ;D ;D
Don't worry, in a Gold car i will see him coming and make my get away.
my 2.2 will be slower, but combination of petrol and LPG, my range will be better ;D
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
Damn! I was looking forward to taking the pi$$ ;D
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
Damn! I was looking forward to taking the pi$$ ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y :y :y
-
finally the thread is alive.. :y :y
-
Is the Silver Bullet enjoying its holidays in deepest Nottinghamshire?
;D
-
finally the thread is alive.. :y :y
unlike the Silver Bullet :(
-
Is the Silver Bullet enjoying its holidays in deepest Nottinghamshire?
;D
Its fine, although its wheels have (temporarily) shrunk ::)
-
Is the Silver Bullet enjoying its holidays in deepest Nottinghamshire?
;D
Its fine, although its wheels have (temporarily) shrunk ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thieving tinker, typical of Robin Hood Country ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Yes well, it lets me get its through its MOT and get new tyres at the same time ;D
-
Is the Silver Bullet enjoying its holidays in deepest Nottinghamshire?
;D
Its fine, although its wheels have (temporarily) shrunk ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thieving tinker, typical of Robin Hood Country ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D
-
Is the Silver Bullet enjoying its holidays in deepest Nottinghamshire?
;D
Its fine, although its wheels have (temporarily) shrunk ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thieving tinker, typical of Robin Hood Country ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
PMSL ;D ;D ;D
I knew I should have put the locking nuts back in ;D ;D ;D
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
? :-/
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
? :-/
Shall I tell......or shall I wait and see if it is the problem.....mmmmm...decisions, decisions.
-
All quiet in ere innit. ::)
engine has to run to hear the knock ;D
Its hush silence, could the useless student be right on the first reply ;D
And our survey says.........UHUUURRRRRGGGGGG. Never mind Tunnie ;D
-
You will all (well one might not be ;)) be pleased to know that its not the cambelt.....all nicely timed, no sign of foreign objects and tension is spot on (Top Job Tony, the boy did well)
I have found one possible item that would cause a pretty loud clack and was disturbed.......
I will sort this and re-assemble for a test....my next stage of diagnosis requires the engine running anyway......I am not holding my breath on it but, it needs eliminating
? :-/
Shall I tell......or shall I wait and see if it is the problem.....mmmmm...decisions, decisions.
wait until you are sure.. :y
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
ooooh, would be nice if it was that, right area, but....i reckon the noise is too loud and knocky for that, exhaust is usually "futty" ime, but here's hoping.
:)
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
ooooh, would be nice if it was that, right area, but....i reckon the noise is too loud and knocky for that, exhaust is usually "futty" ime, but here's hoping.
:)
Indeed but, needs ruling out as clearly its a fault :y
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
ooooh, would be nice if it was that, right area, but....i reckon the noise is too loud and knocky for that, exhaust is usually "futty" ime, but here's hoping.
:)
Indeed but, needs ruling out as clearly its a fault :y
:y
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
ooooh, would be nice if it was that, right area, but....i reckon the noise is too loud and knocky for that, exhaust is usually "futty" ime, but here's hoping.
:)
Indeed but, needs ruling out as clearly its a fault :y
:y
The optimist in me says that whilst the gas leak might not have caused the noise we heard, perhaps the EGR valve was getting a battering as a result due to lack of back pressure between exhaust events. :-/
Kevin
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
ooooh, would be nice if it was that, right area, but....i reckon the noise is too loud and knocky for that, exhaust is usually "futty" ime, but here's hoping.
:)
Indeed but, needs ruling out as clearly its a fault :y
:y
The optimist in me says that whilst the gas leak might not have caused the noise we heard, perhaps the EGR valve was getting a battering as a result due to lack of back pressure between exhaust events. :-/
Kevin
And might account for the lack of 'clank' while only cranking :-/
-
My gut feeling is the crack on egr pipe would sound more like a failing exhaust manifold gasket, rather than noise I thought it was?
But here's hoping :D
what about the 'stiffer' exhaust valves on pot 1 ?
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
Has your MV6 got EGR?
Is the nut on the flexible pipe done up properly?
Your initial comment about the noise being more rapid than a sticky lifter makes me wonder if it isn't caused by exhaust pulses making giving something a hammering :-/
I don't remember getting an answer to that question :P
I did get an answer (but I forgot :()
-
Well I found a crack in the manifold to EGR pipe....
Has your MV6 got EGR?
Is the nut on the flexible pipe done up properly?
Your initial comment about the noise being more rapid than a sticky lifter makes me wonder if it isn't caused by exhaust pulses making giving something a hammering :-/
The nut holding pipe to egr valve was done up correctly several times by myself
I don't remember getting an answer to that question :P
I did get an answer (but I forgot :()
-
Please please please, what's happening? :P :P :P
-
Please please please, what's happening? :P :P :P
suspect The Master has his feet up with a well earned beer after a days hard training...
-
TB, you can have a free lift to Silver bullets holiday resort, in exchange for some muscle to rotate my lpg tank 8-)
-
Please please please, what's happening? :P :P :P
suspect The Master has his feet up with a well earned beer after a days hard training...
I know, I can't wait much longer the suspense is tooooo much, all I want to see is a happy outcome. Better than a TV drama you couldn't script this saga. come on guys :y
-
TB, you can have a free lift to Silver bullets holiday resort, in exchange for some muscle to rotate my lpg tank 8-)
Make sure you don't pull on the Gas Tight Box... It'll break and you have to remove the multivalve to replace it :o :o :y
[edit]I'll re-word that... Make sure TB doesn't pull on the box, he'll break it. You probably wouldn't have the strength ;D ;D[/edit]
-
Has the EGR fault been tested/ruled out yet? ::)
-
what happened.. why nobody say anything :-/
loosing my patience here ;D
-
poor Mark, bless him. Whole forum pestering him, and TB with out his beloved car. Praying to God i havent caused all this agro.
-
I am going to put it all back together tonight and go for a start-up.....then some T2 tests.
-
poor Mark, bless him. Whole forum pestering him, and TB with out his beloved car. Praying to God i havent caused all this agro.
living on the olympos not easy.. the mortals will always disturb you ;D
-
I am going to put it all back together tonight and go for a start-up.....then some T2 tests.
Mark, if you want an excuse to delay this another day or two then I'm in need of a strong pair of hands on some 4m worktops.
-
Dow, you should have called me.
Hmmmm......well, what can I say....
-
Dow, you should have called me.
Hmmmm......well, what can I say....
Still dead?
-
Who knows, still puting it back together and its F cold!
About another hour yet to complete assembly and then test....
-
right radio silence for an hour please.
let him get on with it. ;D
-
Who knows, still puting it back together and its F cold!
About another hour yet to complete assembly and then test....
if you catch cold, who is gonna repair that car.. go home ;D :y
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 cylinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 clinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
do you feel better/worse/indifferent to the noise before (granted you only heard on phone) ?
-
Sounds like you've virtually fixed it ... :y :y :y :y
Nice one ;) ;) ;) ;)
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 clinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
do you feel better/worse/indifferent to the noise before (granted you only heard on phone) ?
Difficult to tell given I only heard a recording and over the phone.
To me, its not bad.....but, could be better.
-
I have some Lifters if some are needed :y in fact a whole bank as the other bank are for someone else :y
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 clinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
do you feel better/worse/indifferent to the noise before (granted you only heard on phone) ?
Difficult to tell given I only heard a recording and over the phone.
To me, its not bad.....but, could be better.
I thought it sounded bad enough I didn't want to drive it :-/
-
get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down
I know it hasn't run for more than 5mins in last month, but would like to think oil is good/fresh enough that it should circulate well? Or have I misunderstood?
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
But, give it a ragging and the oil pressure runs higher until the pressure relief opens
-
now the saying
"the patience suddenly recovers when at the doctor" ;D :y
-
Ow, those plug leads are chuffing huge, what yah gonna do, relocate the dis pack under the passenger seat.
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
TFFT. :)
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
But, give it a ragging and the oil pressure runs higher until the pressure relief opens
Its had a few of them in its time...
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
But, give it a ragging and the oil pressure runs higher until the pressure relief opens
Can I quote that next time the passenger seat moans "Slow Down!"
"Mr DTM says I have to drive aggressively to protect the engine" ::)
-
Ow, those plug leads are chuffing huge, what yah gonna do, relocate the dis pack under the passenger seat.
If you've gotta take plenum off, can you slap originals back on (they were in boot iirc), then I can return those leads to 2woody
-
Ow, those plug leads are chuffing huge, what yah gonna do, relocate the dis pack under the passenger seat.
If you've gotta take plenum off, can you slap originals back on (they were in boot iirc), then I can return those leads to 2woody
Sure, no problem
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 cylinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
I re-read the last pages.. I find this quite interesting.. :y :y
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noise generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 cylinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
I re-read the last pages.. I find this quite interesting.. :y :y
If you know how to use a diagnostic tool well.....you can do loads of tests even on mechanical bits :y
-
I do hope this car hasn't been towed all the way to Nottingham for a new lifter. :-[ (Well, I do, of course...) :-/
Kevin
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
But, give it a ragging and the oil pressure runs higher until the pressure relief opens
When does it not have a good ragging in TB's ownership? ;D
-
Fantastic news... Sounds like the silver bullet will be back on the road soon :y :y
-
Are we saying that the majority of the noise was from EGR, with a helping hand from a lazy follower?
-
Its back together and running.
No fault codes
No exhaust tick
A light tap noise can be heard, I have heard worse though
Injector cutoff test done......all cylinders firing, tap noise does not change in volume.....this effectively rules out the bottom end as the lack of firing on a cylinder would reduce the load on little and big end bearings hence the noice generaly stops or at least significantly quietens down under this test.
Now, I did notice a slightyly weak follower on No 1 cylinder inlet valve no 2.....
So.....2 choices.....get it stinking hot and see if it quietens down or (and the prefered choice), swap the followers on No1 bank.
I re-read the last pages.. I find this quite interesting.. :y :y
so do I. In fact I'd say that's wrong. At idle, probably 80% of the load a big end sees is rotational and not firing-load induced. at maximum speed, the inertial load will be 99+% of the total load.
-
The theory is based around the power stroke and works on the principal that on a true power stroke the big end is heavily loaded until later in the stroke, with no power its a lighter load (the only pressure being that of the compressed air in the cylinder).
So what you get normaly is a faster unloading of the big end journal (as the exhaust valve opens) with no power, this unloading is a lot less sudden and hence a reduction in the 'knock' is expected.
-
i think the knock sound is emitted at TDC and BDC, when the piston is reversed by the con-rod.
-
i think the knock sound is emitted at TDC and BDC, when the piston is reversed by the con-rod.
the frequency is about right as you describe it seems to me, but type of noise is too....piercing, too sharp, theres no depth to it.
having a good listen and almost climing in the engine bay, its top end, we've done tests to eliminate loss of movement in bottom end in Alton.
To me, its top end in pot 1 or 3, possibly exhaust going by the noise. Have to say though its not the same "tok tok tok" lifter noise my 3.2 made when i got it with its neglected vx service intervals.
Its a clack, not a tok. But if it has a week lifter in that area, gota go with it....
All in my limited experience of course. :-/
-
i think the knock sound is emitted at TDC and BDC, when the piston is reversed by the con-rod.
Not at TDC it does not as the top bearing is loaded during the full compression and firing stroke until the exhaust valve opens :y
-
i think the knock sound is emitted at TDC and BDC, when the piston is reversed by the con-rod.
the frequency is about right as you describe it seems to me, but type of noise is too....piercing, too sharp, theres no depth to it.
having a good listen and almost climing in the engine bay, its top end, we've done tests to eliminate loss of movement in bottom end in Alton.
To me, its top end in pot 1 or 3, possibly exhaust going by the noise. Have to say though its not the same "tok tok tok" lifter noise my 3.2 made when i got it with its neglected vx service intervals.
Its a clack, not a tok. But if it has a week lifter in that area, gota go with it....
All in my limited experience of course. :-/
Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
-
Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
Which may be what threw us - the thing, to my ears, purred into the garage sweetly.
The EGR, yes, we did disturb that, so I can see why that happened. But the lifters, thats just coincidence?
-
Deal done on a set of known good lifters.
Oil should be fine....it will only take 3 hours or so to fit them and jobs a good un
:D :D :D
Not sure I understand why letting it roast would/could quieten down more than running for a few mins (surely after a few mins, the oil should have pumped up lifters (as I assume that lifters aren't clogged with old oil, given the oil service strategy))?
But, give it a ragging and the oil pressure runs higher until the pressure relief opens
When does it not have a good ragging in TB's ownership? ;D
Not between here and Silverstone, and not between BP and here - I like to give it plenty of time to fully get oil hot before spirited driving, and give it time to cool nicely before switching off. I'm a good boy like that. I would like to think from an fluids point of view, that is one of the cleanest engines around.
-
Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
Which may be what threw us - the thing, to my ears, purred into the garage sweetly.
The EGR, yes, we did disturb that, so I can see why that happened. But the lifters, thats just coincidence?
Lifter, I am pretty sure its only one.
Parts have arrived any way so will make a start this evening
-
Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
Which may be what threw us - the thing, to my ears, purred into the garage sweetly.
The EGR, yes, we did disturb that, so I can see why that happened. But the lifters, thats just coincidence?
Lifter, I am pretty sure its only one.
Parts have arrived any way so will make a start this evening
Hope that solves it, as I'm really looking forward to getting it back :y :y
Then to persuade Kevin Wood and chrisgixer to touch it again to get the LPG up and running - thats got to be worth a poll at some point, will they or won't they ;D ;D ;D
-
thought most of the LPG was done, can't be much left to do?
-
thought most of the LPG was done, can't be much left to do?
Most of front end got removed as we backtraced our steps....
-
thought most of the LPG was done, can't be much left to do?
Most of front end got removed as we backtraced our steps....
Another good days work there then :(
-
thought most of the LPG was done, can't be much left to do?
Most of front end got removed as we backtraced our steps....
Another good days work there then :(
Yeah, reckon a very 'easy' day inc the setup and calibrations etc, along with tea breaks, talking bollax and so on. All the (in my mind) hard work has been done
-
thought most of the LPG was done, can't be much left to do?
Most of front end got removed as we backtraced our steps....
Another good days work there then :(
Yeah, reckon a very 'easy' day inc the setup and calibrations etc, along with tea breaks, talking bollax and so on. All the (in my mind) hard work has been done
Not working Monday if that helps :)
-
Can we have a precis of the last 28 pages? ;) I lost the plot very early in! ::)
Is the car now fixed? :-/
What was the problem? :-/
-
Can we have a precis of the last 28 pages? ;) I lost the plot very early in! ::)
Is the car now fixed? :-/
What was the problem? :-/
Sure
No
Unconfirmed
-
Can we have a precis of the last 28 pages? ;) I lost the plot very early in! ::)
Is the car now fixed? :-/
What was the problem? :-/
Sure
No
Unconfirmed
Oh! :'(
At least you've got the Golden Nugget as a back up! :y :y :y ;)
-
Can we have a precis of the last 28 pages? ;) I lost the plot very early in! ::)
Is the car now fixed? :-/
What was the problem? :-/
Sure
No
Unconfirmed
Oh! :'(
At least you've got the Golden Nugget as a back up! :y :y :y ;)
i think the nugget heard you Mr B....not anymore. :'(
-
Can we have a precis of the last 28 pages? ;) I lost the plot very early in! ::)
Is the car now fixed? :-/
What was the problem? :-/
Sure
No
Unconfirmed
Oh! :'(
At least you've got the Golden Nugget as a back up! spares :y :y :y ;)
:)
-
Errr, MDTM, do you know when you'll have time to pop those lifters in the Silver Bullet? ::) ::) ::)
If you need more lifters, I may have 24 here ;D
-
Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
Which may be what threw us - the thing, to my ears, purred into the garage sweetly.
The EGR, yes, we did disturb that, so I can see why that happened. But the lifters, thats just coincidence?
Lifter, I am pretty sure its only one.
Parts have arrived any way so will make a start this evening
Hope that solves it, as I'm really looking forward to getting it back :y :y
Then to persuade Kevin Wood and chrisgixer to touch it again to get the LPG up and running - thats got to be worth a poll at some point, will they or won't they ;D ;D ;D
I can pop over/down if it ties up with my rest days :y
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Remember though that its quite possible there were 2 noises.....as we have already found an exhaust leak in this area (rectified).....and now there is a very cammy sound left.
Which may be what threw us - the thing, to my ears, purred into the garage sweetly.
The EGR, yes, we did disturb that, so I can see why that happened. But the lifters, thats just coincidence?
Lifter, I am pretty sure its only one.
Parts have arrived any way so will make a start this evening
Hope that solves it, as I'm really looking forward to getting it back :y :y
Then to persuade Kevin Wood and chrisgixer to touch it again to get the LPG up and running - thats got to be worth a poll at some point, will they or won't they ;D ;D ;D
I can pop over/down if it ties up with my rest days :y
I have a more pressing problem - this banging noise on the engine is obviously catching ;D
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I have a more pressing problem - this banging noise on the engine is obviously catching ;D
As I said, I suspect your Rover. It's getting jealous, so it sucks oil out of the nearest V6 until it dies, then it needs to get rid of the excess oil, so it leaks. It makes perfect sense. ;D
Kevin
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I have a more pressing problem - this banging noise on the engine is obviously catching ;D
As I said, I suspect your Rover. It's getting jealous, so it sucks oil out of the nearest V6 until it dies, then it needs to get rid of the excess oil, so it leaks. It makes perfect sense. ;D
Kevin
The superior Rover does not use/lose a drop of oil. Coolant, well its a K series, so it uses the constant loss method of replacing ;D
-
Two cars of yours suitable for this thread now :( :(
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
Looks pretty knackered (and conclusive) to me :y :y
He needs to strip the Golden Nugget down now and check... That sounds very rough :o :o and I reckon it's towards the bulk head of the passenger bank, although hard to be certain when the clatter is echoing off 2 walls and a garage door on a quiet Sunday Lunch time ::)
Sounds louder than the Silver Bullet but hard to tell when listening to recordings as comparison
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
Forgive my amateurishness, but what is the video showing? I can see that you can push one valve and not the other, but what does that mean?
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
Forgive my amateurishness, but what is the video showing? I can see that you can push one valve and not the other, but what does that mean?
It's actually only the lifter he's pushing... And it means the lifter is breaked :y :y
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
Forgive my amateurishness, but what is the video showing? I can see that you can push one valve and not the other, but what does that mean?
It's actually only the lifter he's pushing... And it means the lifter is breaked :y :y
Thanks :y
-
So, are we convinced yet
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/?action=view¤t=MOV00013.flv
Hmmmm....
:)
-
Could that be a weak valve spring, or is defo lifter? Just thinking out aloud really.
Which cylinder is it?
-
Could that be a weak valve spring, or is defo lifter? Just thinking out aloud really.
Which cylinder is it?
I have seen the same whereby it's a lifter..
-
On the upside, looks clean enough at the top end :D
-
Could that be a weak valve spring, or is defo lifter? Just thinking out aloud really.
Which cylinder is it?
And I'm sure the spring will get checked when the lifter is removed, just in case :y :y
-
So..... does this mean the Silver Bullet is resurrected in the nick of time? :)
Is the Golden Nugget just copying the Silver Bullet, with a bit of attention seeking behaviour? :-?
Let's hope so. TB is due a little good fortune for a change :y
-
Intrigued I am .... why would taking the inlet manifold off and fitting the lpg stuff suddenly cause a lifter to malfunction ??? I can see no link between THAT work and THIS problem .... and I don't believe in coincidences of this magnitude ....
-
Could that be a weak valve spring, or is defo lifter? Just thinking out aloud really.
Which cylinder is it?
And I'm sure the spring will get checked when the lifter is removed, just in case :y :y
I was thinking from a goldie point of view, not doubting Mr DTM's abilities ;D
-
Intrigued I am .... why would taking the inlet manifold off and fitting the lpg stuff suddenly cause a lifter to malfunction ??? I can see no link between THAT work and THIS problem .... and I don't believe in coincidences of this magnitude ....
I think we are in the realms of coincedence here. And a further coincidence being the Golden Nugget appears to have developed exactly the same issue, that engine hasn't been touched at all :o :o :o
-
Intrigued I am .... why would taking the inlet manifold off and fitting the lpg stuff suddenly cause a lifter to malfunction ??? I can see no link between THAT work and THIS problem .... and I don't believe in coincidences of this magnitude ....
I think we are in the realms of coincedence here. And a further coincidence being the Golden Nugget appears to have developed exactly the same issue, that engine hasn't been touched at all :o :o :o
The common element is the angry object between seat and steering wheel ::)
-
Yep...valve spring all fine.....the lifter is goosed......and saved for prosperity.
Cams back in, cam caps fitted, cam cover back on and cam sprockets back on.
Might get chance to finish the rest tomorrow evening.
I also dont beleave in coincidences......hence why a very methodical approach has been used.....
The weak lifter is on no 1 cylinder....inlet.
-
Coincidences do, rarely, happen... I think this may be proof of that.
It is strange though :-/ :-/
Sounds like the Golden Nugget problem may be similar, although we did discuss the fat is sounds like it's running on 5 and smells a bit "Unburnt Fuel" like too so possibly a lead problem too.
It's definitely like Diesel Knock.
-
Intrigued I am .... why would taking the inlet manifold off and fitting the lpg stuff suddenly cause a lifter to malfunction ??? I can see no link between THAT work and THIS problem .... and I don't believe in coincidences of this magnitude ....
I think we are in the realms of coincedence here. And a further coincidence being the Golden Nugget appears to have developed exactly the same issue, that engine hasn't been touched at all :o :o :o
The common element is the angry object between seat and steering wheel ::)
;D
2/2 no miss ;D :y
-
Oooo....your a bit close to 10K posts to be making statements like that cem ;D ;D ;D
-
Oooo....your a bit close to 10K posts to be making statements like that cem ;D ;D ;D
You read my mind, mr dtm ::)
-
I stayed long enough to learn what will happen ;D
what happened to others, will happen to me no doubt ;D :y
-
Glad to hear the silver bullet issue is likely resolved. A most bizarre coincidence, so it seems. :-/
Just goes to show what a row a single lifter can make. :o
Kevin
-
Just goes to show what a row a single lifter can make. :o
Kevin
Agreed Kev - I had an awful noise on MaxV6's old car - this was exactly the same cause...
-
Glad to hear the silver bullet issue is likely resolved. A most bizarre coincidence, so it seems. :-/
Just goes to show what a row a single lifter can make. :o
Kevin
Lol, I thought it was lifter the first time I heard it.....do a few headgasket jobs and you soon get used to it! ;D ;D ;D
Key lesson in this entire thread is that no key items were changed until after methodical diag had been completed :y
-
About a year ago the wife took the Audi 80 TDi to Asda, did her shop, came back out, started the Audi and it sounded like a bag of old nails. She drove it home and left it for me to look at.
Turned out to be a knackered lifter. It had never shown any sign at all that it could be on the way out, it literally worked one minute then failled the next.
But to have one go at the exact moment you do all that work, well that really is the law of the sod!
Glad it appears to be sorted, well done to all those involved :y :y :y
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But to have one go at the exact moment you do all that work, well that really is the law of the sod!
I think that is what Kevin, Chris and I couldn't understand - it had to be something we had done, and a combination of late nights, long journeys (this happened at Kevin Wood's place) meant, certainly for me, tired eyes. If I could have left it a couple of weeks, maybe coming into it fresh again may have been a better approach, and lose the notion that its had to be something we had touched.
I was keen to get it out of Kevin's way, as a couple of days after it happened, he had 'a moment' in his Westfield, and ideally needs his garage to strip that down to replace the chassis :o
-
just to satisfy my curiosity, when you removed the lifter did you check to see if the valve moved freely?
my thinking on this is if the valve was stuck/bent jammed etc it would blow the lifter seals ?
-
Valve moves quite nicely :y
Ok, its all back together.....and runs with light lifter noise (Which it will do until the oil is circulated well and the new (to this engine) lifters are all sorted and settled in.
However, I have an air leak and an oil leak.....
.....so give me a clue guys, wheres the oil filler neck and cap!
-
Valve moves quite nicely :y
Ok, its all back together.....and runs with light lifter noise (Which it will do until the oil is circulated well and the new (to this engine) lifters are all sorted and settled in.
However, I have an air leak and an oil leak.....
.....so give me a clue guys, wheres the oil filler neck and cap!
in my garage :-[
-
Valve moves quite nicely :y
Ok, its all back together.....and runs with light lifter noise (Which it will do until the oil is circulated well and the new (to this engine) lifters are all sorted and settled in.
However, I have an air leak and an oil leak.....
.....so give me a clue guys, wheres the oil filler neck and cap!
in my garage :-[
In my defence, I only got it back this evening ;D
-
Valve moves quite nicely :y
Ok, its all back together.....and runs with light lifter noise (Which it will do until the oil is circulated well and the new (to this engine) lifters are all sorted and settled in.
However, I have an air leak and an oil leak.....
.....so give me a clue guys, wheres the oil filler neck and cap!
It was in the boot of my 2.2, its now in TB's garage!
-
Valve moves quite nicely :y
Ok, its all back together.....and runs with light lifter noise (Which it will do until the oil is circulated well and the new (to this engine) lifters are all sorted and settled in.
However, I have an air leak and an oil leak.....
.....so give me a clue guys, wheres the oil filler neck and cap!
in my garage :-[
In my defence, I only got it back this evening ;D
(Spoken in the voice of Nan from the Catherine Tate Show)
"What a rather' liberty!"
-
Well done Mark...... :y :y :y
One down one to go! ::)
-
Fantastic news Mark... Proof that coincidences do happen then :y :y
Guess there's going to be another visit to Brackley in the near future ::)
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next one ;D :y
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Fantastic news Mark... Proof that coincidences do happen then :y :y
Guess there's going to be another visit to Brackley in the near future ::)
To finish off the LPG ::)
just catching up with the thread.
-
Car should be collected this evening
-
Lifters ok then now Master? :-*
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Lifters ok then now Master? :-*
A little tappy but they need a run so settle in......and I could not do that due to the oil filler being located in the wrong place so it couldn't be fitted.
I should add that this wrong place was the boot of Tunnies car!
-
Good result there Master, take a Bow :-*
-
WELLL DONE YOU. :y :y :y
The end of a great saga, it was must read, and informative drama, better than Frost ;D
-
Well done Mr. DTM :y Now onto the gold car ;D
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Well done Mr DTM :y
-
Lets just wait until its been run in.....
-
Lets just wait until its been run in.....
Don't you mean once TheBoy has revved the 'dangle berries' out of it :question
-
Lets just wait until its been run in.....
until Mr Stig tests it ;D :y
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Are you going to screw a block of wood beneath the accelerator while it gets a bit of "running in" ... rather allow "testing to destruction" mode .. ??
:D :D :D :D :D
Good work any way :y :y :y :y :y :y
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Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
-
Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
You volunteering :o
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Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
You volunteering :o
Well, we need to finish what we've started. ;)
Happy to help, of course.
Kevin
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Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
You volunteering :o
Well, we need to finish what we've started. ;)
Happy to help, of course.
Kevin
As I said, if I'm available I'll pop over/down and lend a hand :y
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Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
You volunteering :o
Shouldn't take long its all been in place once already, but as Mark says, wise to wait and see if its ok first.
Does the filler and cap off Marks face lift fit? sure it does?
Well, we need to finish what we've started. ;)
Happy to help, of course.
Kevin
Mark has an Omega i thought? cant pinch the filler off that for a test drive? just to be sure? not that i doubt the master of course...
-
TB should have his oil filter back....
-
Don't klnow if "The Destroyer" is fit to drive a car all the problems he causes..... maybe a pushbike would be more suiting :P ;D
-
Before TB picks the car up Mark just slacken the throttle cable off say about half way ;D ;D
-
Will be good to have this car running on LPG (at last!) :y
Kevin
You volunteering :o
Well, we need to finish what we've started. ;)
Happy to help, of course.
Kevin
Could use some pictures for the LPG maintenance guides before it's all sewn up as well, actually. :y
Kevin
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Sounds a great result, congratulations :y :y :y
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The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
So have you swapped him for the Golden Nugget then?
You'd better keep him occupied or he'll be back playing Casey Jones and you'll never get it sorted. ;D ;D
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
Oi!
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
So have you swapped him for the Golden Nugget then?
You'd better keep him occupied or he'll be back playing Casey Jones and you'll never get it sorted. ;D ;D
Err,no. The golden nugget wouldn't make it out of Brackley I suspect, let alone 70 odd miles to Nottingham ;D
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
I guess you're on your phone again ;D
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
I guess you're on your phone again ;D
yeah f****** thing, couldnt be arsed to re type it, you have the polite version
dont remember Kevin touching it either
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dont remember Kevin touching it either
Furthermore, I distinctly remember TheBoy standing there holding a piece of it, and saying "Oh, Darn" or words to that effect. ;)
Good to hear that she's basically on the road again. :y
Hope there wasn't too much LPG loom dragging on the road behind you.
Kevin
-
dont remember Kevin touching it either
Furthermore, I distinctly remember TheBoy standing there holding a piece of it, and saying "Oh, Darn" or words to that effect. ;)
Kevin
indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
i suspect TB might very well be able to remember where all those LPG parts go on his own, dont you?
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
So have you swapped him for the Golden Nugget then?
You'd better keep him occupied or he'll be back playing Casey Jones and you'll never get it sorted. ;D ;D
Err,no. The golden nugget wouldn't make it out of Brackley I suspect, let alone 70 odd miles to Nottingham ;D
Not convinced it would make it off the drive TBH ::)
Is the pipe that connects to the ICV the same on the 2.5 as the 3.0? If so, stick it in the boot when you come down (assuming it's in good condition) as I need to replace mine when the plenum is off to do the cam belt! :y
Ta!
-
dont remember Kevin touching it either
Furthermore, I distinctly remember TheBoy standing there holding a piece of it, and saying "Oh, Darn" or words to that effect. ;)
Good to hear that she's basically on the road again. :y
Hope there wasn't too much LPG loom dragging on the road behind you.
Kevin
Indeed. In fact, I know I caught it when we were turning crank over from underneath ::). But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory ;D
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
So have you swapped him for the Golden Nugget then?
You'd better keep him occupied or he'll be back playing Casey Jones and you'll never get it sorted. ;D ;D
Err,no. The golden nugget wouldn't make it out of Brackley I suspect, let alone 70 odd miles to Nottingham ;D
Not convinced it would make it off the drive TBH ::)
Is the pipe that connects to the ICV the same on the 2.5 as the 3.0? If so, stick it in the boot when you come down (assuming it's in good condition) as I need to replace mine when the plenum is off to do the cam belt! :y
Ta!
ICV pipe different between short and long plenums.
-
The car is now back on my driveway :D :D :D
Couple of niggles to sort out (Kevin, Chris and I between us broke the vac tank with all the in-and-out). Also, slight ligter noise still under acceleration, which MDTM has a theory about; but nothing like it was.
Thankyou, Mr DTM, for taking the time to diagnose the fault, and rectify :y. And for putting the prop shaft back on ;D
So have you swapped him for the Golden Nugget then?
You'd better keep him occupied or he'll be back playing Casey Jones and you'll never get it sorted. ;D ;D
Err,no. The golden nugget wouldn't make it out of Brackley I suspect, let alone 70 odd miles to Nottingham ;D
Not convinced it would make it off the drive TBH ::)
Is the pipe that connects to the ICV the same on the 2.5 as the 3.0? If so, stick it in the boot when you come down (assuming it's in good condition) as I need to replace mine when the plenum is off to do the cam belt! :y
Ta!
ICV pipe different between short and long plenums.
Oh well... Seemed like a good plan ::)
Did you get the PM I sent last night or has it been nuked already?
-
indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
Yes, what an incredible stroke of luck that is. :D
....But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory...
There's no "I" in team, etc. ::)
I suppose we can share the blame for not noticing the fubar lifter as well, then. :D
Kevin
-
indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
Yes, what an incredible stroke of luck that is. :D
....But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory...
There's no "I" in team, etc. ::)
I suppose we can share the blame for not noticing the fubar lifter as well, then. :D
Kevin
Bloody management, always the same, blame the staff steel the glory. We're there to make him look good i bet, failed there as well obviously. ;D ;D ;D
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indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
Yes, what an incredible stroke of luck that is. :D
....But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory...
There's no "I" in team, etc. ::)
I suppose we can share the blame for not noticing the fubar lifter as well, then. :D
Kevin
Just been looking at Goldie this evening, talk about a deja vu moment ;D
-
Scuttle is still off (but both wipers on now ;D), as LPG needs finishing, so will hear any noises more.
Got a tap noise at start-up, which goes by time fast idle drops to normal idle. Tap is there, however, when accelerating. Car has not been over 3000rpm yet. Lifters should have settled by now. Have some Forte oil flush on order, on MDTM's advice.
Hoping his theories are correct, and its not something more sinister :-/
-
indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
Yes, what an incredible stroke of luck that is. :D
....But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory...
There's no "I" in team, etc. ::)
I suppose we can share the blame for not noticing the fubar lifter as well, then. :D
Kevin
Just been looking at Goldie this evening, talk about a deja vu moment ;D
you bust the vac tank as well as the engine?
-
I should add, this current noise is nowhere near as bad as before :y
-
indeed, exactly as i recall, still, we know he has a spare hes not using now ;D
Yes, what an incredible stroke of luck that is. :D
....But we were working as a team, so share the blame and the glory...
There's no "I" in team, etc. ::)
I suppose we can share the blame for not noticing the fubar lifter as well, then. :D
Kevin
Just been looking at Goldie this evening, talk about a deja vu moment ;D
you bust the vac tank as well as the engine?
No, I was on about the diagnostics I've done ;D
-
Errr, uhmmm, errr...
[size=20]OPPPS!!![/size]
-
Errr, uhmmm, errr...
[size=20]OPPPS!!![/size]
[size=14]WTF[/size] now ?
-
Its back on the driveway now :D, looking very falorn :'(
-
I've just caught up with all the goings on following my operation... i thought this had got a happy ending, but what on earth has happened now?
-
I've just caught up with all the goings on following my operation... i thought this had got a happy ending, but what on earth has happened now?
I blame Mr DTM. He told me to take it for a spirited ride. Who am I to disobey the Master?
;D
-
I've just caught up with all the goings on following my operation... i thought this had got a happy ending, but what on earth has happened now?
I blame Mr DTM. He told me to take it for a spirited ride. Who am I to disobey the Master?
;D
:o :o :o
Kevin
-
So WHAT has happened ;D
-
So WHAT has happened ;D
Need to let it cool to look, but we have ascertained that my underpants remain unscathed...
-
poooooor silver bullet :'(
-
Clucking bell Jaime what have you done to the poor car now? ;D
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Methinks he's hit something, or cooked something.... :(
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my guess is the block of wood under the accelerator was removed prior to testing ?
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my guess is the block of wood under the accelerator was removed prior to testing ?
Hmm. Spirited and block of wood don't go together. :-/ Unless the block of wood was ON the acccelerator? :o
Kevin
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my guess is the block of wood under the accelerator was removed prior to testing ?
Hmm. Spirited and block of wood don't go together. :-/ Unless the block of wood was ON the acccelerator? :o
Kevin
Or the wooden plank was sat in the seat ;D
Just taken it for another brief spin, there is definately a coolant leak now. Rev dependent on exactly how high the fountain is.
Need to wait to cool again, whip off plenum, have a looksie. Ho hum.
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Ah! A water feature? ;)
Kevin
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Ah! A water feature? ;)
Kevin
Looks like 'the team' are safe this time ;)
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And this is BEFORE you start refitting the lpg stuff ??? Doesn't bode well ..... :)
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And this is BEFORE you start refitting the lpg stuff ??? Doesn't bode well ..... :)
Is it trying to tell me something?
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And this is BEFORE you start refitting the lpg stuff ??? Doesn't bode well ..... :)
Is it trying to tell me something?
had exactly that thought in Alton, the"stropy bullet" more like...or is it "grumpy bullet" given itsage...?
Some flomax perhaps? needs to peeeee... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0WR-IJKmg
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Check the LPG pipework... May be there somewhere ;)
I guess this means we're unlikely to be refitting the LPG this weekend ::)
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had exactly that thought in Alton, the"stropy bullet" more like...or is it "grumpy bullet" given itsage...?
Some flomax perhaps? needs to peeeee... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0WR-IJKmg
I think it's grumpy about the f@rt gas. ::) Maybe we should have told it who's boss and fitted a pikey bar at the same time. ;D
Kevin
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had exactly that thought in Alton, the"stropy bullet" more like...or is it "grumpy bullet" given itsage...?
Some flomax perhaps? needs to peeeee... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0WR-IJKmg
I think it's grumpy about the f@rt gas. ::) Maybe we should have told it who's boss and fitted a pikey bar at the same time. ;D
Kevin
agreed.. this car tried every measures not to have it ;D
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Fixed. Now in Oxford. No spirited driving on way here, strictly under 80mph, and no sub 10 sec acceleration
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had exactly that thought in Alton, the"stropy bullet" more like...or is it "grumpy bullet" given itsage...?
Some flomax perhaps? needs to peeeee... ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU0WR-IJKmg
I think it's grumpy about the f@rt gas. ::) Maybe we should have told it who's boss and fitted a pikey bar at the same time. ;D
Kevin
agreed.. this car tried every measures not to have it ;D
it nearly had LPG inlets slapped on, seeing as I had to strip that far
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
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Phew...this saga is definately better that the rubbish on tv lately... ;D
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
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Is it a Nokia by some chance....i always used to have issues with the spell checker on mine...till it went out of the window.. :D
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
Baaah! you broken oof for mobiles as well as both your cars? ;D
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
That's a nokia.
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
That's a nokia.
suspicious absence of smileys on winmo...?
::)
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
That's a nokia.
suspicious absence of smileys on winmo...?
::)
Dunno where you got that idea from Chris. :o
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the suspense is killing me... What was it then?
Coolant bridge to BBC pipe had split. Small section replace now
Decking phone. BBC = hbv
Decking? rather phone and it's stupid spell checker
I also go mad with this word completing property ;D ;D
so still using ancient mobiles.. ;D
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So... It's fixed again... Are we back on for the weekend? :-?
If so, one of you better bring a torque wrench (mine's a bit big!) and your preference of soldering equipment/tape/heat shrink etc :y
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So... It's fixed again... Are we back on for the weekend? :-?
If so, one of you better bring a torque wrench (mine's a bit big!) and your preference of soldering equipment/tape/heat shrink etc :y
Err, see pm . Got smell of coolant again
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So... It's fixed again... Are we back on for the weekend? :-?
If so, one of you better bring a torque wrench (mine's a bit big!) and your preference of soldering equipment/tape/heat shrink etc :y
Err, see pm . Got smell of coolant again
Could just be lingering from earlier... I'd imagine it was everywhere ::)
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So... It's fixed again... Are we back on for the weekend? :-?
If so, one of you better bring a torque wrench (mine's a bit big!) and your preference of soldering equipment/tape/heat shrink etc :y
Err, see pm . Got smell of coolant again
Could just be lingering from earlier... I'd imagine it was everywhere ::)
Yes, mostly all over the A43 ::)
I need to see whats happened to the level once its cooled.
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Fingers crossed Jaime, your luck has surely got to change!
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It will be very wet.....and very clean!
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It will be very wet.....and very clean!
Done around 80 miles since the leak fixed. Would that have burnt off yet.
I should add, that 80 miles was most definately an unspirited drive
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It will be very wet.....and very clean!
Done around 80 miles since the leak fixed. Would that have burnt off yet.
I should add, that 80 miles was most definately an unspirited drive
Judging by your description of a "Geyser" it will have soaked into the lining inside the bonnet ;)
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So, this weekend, LPG and rev limiter fitted. ::)
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So, this weekend, LPG and rev limiter fitted. ::)
:D :D ;D - oops 'post count' :o!
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It will be very wet.....and very clean!
Done around 80 miles since the leak fixed. Would that have burnt off yet.
I should add, that 80 miles was most definately an unspirited drive
Judging by your description of a "Geyser" it will have soaked into the lining inside the bonnet ;)
ime the coolent smell will linger for some time, wonder if its worth a rinse off with a hose, esp on bits that get hot, tends to leave residue if it evaporates on hot parts, hence the burnt suger type smell....IME...?
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So, this weekend, LPG and rev limiter fitted. ::)
:D :D ;D - oops 'post count' :o!
mmm - should have engaged brain first.
Posts: 19945
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So, this weekend, LPG and rev limiter fitted. ::)
FFS, I behaved, and did exactly what I thought I was told. Was told to take it easy initially (so I didn't go above 3k rpm), then I was asked to give it a spirited drive.
Its this last bit where the misunderstanding was....
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When I said a spirited drive I didn't mean a Malcolm Cambell esq land speed record attempt!
;D ;D ;D
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When I said a spirited drive I didn't mean a Malcolm Cambell esq land speed record attempt!
;D ;D ;D
And 'Spirited' also didn't mean 'drive it 'till it gives up the Ghost' ;D ;D ;D ;)
Oops, didn't check my post count first :o ::)
Edit: Post count = 2271 ;D
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Well, TheBoy, Lazydocker and myself got it running on LPG today without a hitch. Runs beautifully on LPG and isn't overly rattly in normal circumstances, IMHO.
However, give it some "spirited" driving (by TheBoy's convention) and it does, gradually, get rattly. My feeling is that this is oil temperature related (it takes a minute or two of ragging to get noisy and over 10 minutes or so it quietens down). I'm wondering if the oil pressure is a little low and, when the oil is hot as well, the lifters get noisy.
Kevin
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Nice work :y :y :y
The Silver Bullet lives again :y :y :y
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Nice work all :y :y Well done
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about time!
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Nice work :y :y :y
The Silver Bullet lives again :y :y :y
Yeah, But how long till he breaks it again :y
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I love a ending, happy?, sad?, makes no difference, as long as it's an ending ;D ;D ;)
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I love a ending, happy?, sad?, makes no difference, as long as it's an ending ;D ;D ;)
Not sure it's an ending. There is still a problem that needs to be investigated but the LPG chapter has been put to bed, at least.
Kevin
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This chapter isn't finished yet... As said, it did start making some rather nasty noises after some "enthusiastic" driving. But... It runs on LPG very well, with no apparent lag whatsoever :y :y
I've definitely caught the sun in the last 36 hours though ::) ::)
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With the scuttle on, you can't hear the noise :-/
That made me concerned all the way home, as that was what I was going to be listening for.
Took it easy - 70-80mph - all the way, but the A43 got boring ::). Didn't go mad, but it did cruise up to above 3k rpm.
Just put out the 2nd light on the LPG gauge as I pulled up. 40miles calibrating, and 140m home.
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And yes, boot down from a 40mph cruise to 70(ish ::)) mph, none of the hessitation seen with other Stags. Not sure I fully understand why.
However, we could only do limited testing, as the Silver Bullet got a bit of a monk on, so we let her cool down....
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With the scuttle on, you can't hear the noise :-/
That made me concerned all the way home, as that was what I was going to be listening for.
Took it easy - 70-80mph - all the way, but the A43 got boring ::). Didn't go mad, but it did cruise up to above 3k rpm.
Just put out the 2nd light on the LPG gauge as I pulled up. 40miles calibrating, and 140m home.
Sounds about right ;)
Did think it would sound much quieter with the scuttle on.
Any lag/hesitation on the LPG front?
[edit]Just seen your next post ::)
I think I'll be dropping the pressure on mine again and experimenting some more :-/[/edit]
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
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sounds good progress...
refresh my memory....was it an oil pump or pas pump you did (well Tony did) at Newent?
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
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With the scuttle on, you can't hear the noise :-/
That made me concerned all the way home, as that was what I was going to be listening for.
Took it easy - 70-80mph - all the way, but the A43 got boring ::). Didn't go mad, but it did cruise up to above 3k rpm.
Just put out the 2nd light on the LPG gauge as I pulled up. 40miles calibrating, and 140m home.
Sounds about right ;)
Did think it would sound much quieter with the scuttle on.
Any lag/hesitation on the LPG front?
[edit]Just seen your next post ::)
I think I'll be dropping the pressure on mine again and experimenting some more :-/[/edit]
Lag - impossible to tell, as I was being a good boy - for 130m, didn't go about 3k rpm, and at no point was it floored.
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sounds good progress...
refresh my memory....was it an oil pump or pas pump you did (well Tony did) at Newent?
PAS
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sounds good progress...
refresh my memory....was it an oil pump or pas pump you did (well Tony did) at Newent?
PAS
:y
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
yeah yeah, notice i congratulated the team, not the manager...
;D ;)
just prooves the fault lay with the grumpy car and owner, obviosly...we did our bit no problem. :y
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
yeah yeah, notice i congratulated the team, not the manager...
;D ;)
just prooves the fault lay with the grumpy car and owner, obviosly...we did our bit no problem. :y
In all seriousness, it was one of those dreadful coincidences that would probably have been one of the first things checked if the LPG work hadn't been done :y :y
Definitely seems to be related to oil temperature (and thus pressure) :-/
Have you got an oil pressure tester Mr DTM? :y
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
yeah yeah, notice i congratulated the team, not the manager...
;D ;)
just prooves the fault lay with the grumpy car and owner, obviosly...we did our bit no problem. :y
In all seriousness, it was one of those dreadful coincidences that would probably have been one of the first things checked if the LPG work hadn't been done :y :y
Definitely seems to be related to oil temperature (and thus pressure) :-/
Have you got an oil pressure tester Mr DTM? :y
Should have by the end of this week
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
yeah yeah, notice i congratulated the team, not the manager...
;D ;)
just prooves the fault lay with the grumpy car and owner, obviosly...we did our bit no problem. :y
In all seriousness, it was one of those dreadful coincidences that would probably have been one of the first things checked if the LPG work hadn't been done :y :y
Definitely seems to be related to oil temperature (and thus pressure) :-/
Have you got an oil pressure tester Mr DTM? :y
Should have by the end of this week
Excellent... I'm sure TB is willing for you to try it out on a certain silver car ::) ::)
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Fascinating thread.
Next suspect is oil pressure relief valve sticking? Or have I missed the point somewhere?
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Fascinating thread.
Next suspect is oil pressure relief valve sticking? Or have I missed the point somewhere?
Yep... Could be other things too but definitely seems to be a pressure issue when the oil is hot (and thinner)
Fine under gentle driving conditions but not happy when driven hard for a sustained period ::)
[edit]Should add... Was suspect when the car was collected from MDTM :y[/edit]
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Fascinating thread.
Next suspect is oil pressure relief valve sticking? Or have I missed the point somewhere?
Yep... Could be other things too but definitely seems to be a pressure issue when the oil is hot (and thinner)
Fine under gentle driving conditions but not happy when driven hard for a sustained period with TB's lead foot ::)
Fixed that for you Paul. ;D ;D
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Fascinating thread.
Next suspect is oil pressure relief valve sticking? Or have I missed the point somewhere?
Yep... Could be other things too but definitely seems to be a pressure issue when the oil is hot (and thinner)
Fine under gentle driving conditions but not happy when driven hard for a sustained period ::)
[edit]Should add... Was suspect when the car was collected from MDTM :y[/edit]
Is there any other way?
The noise can't be heard in the car with scuttle on, but I'm sure I would have noticed it before with bonnet up, and Kevin Wood would have noticed when I drove into his garage.
I still don't believe in coincidence :-/
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Fascinating thread.
Next suspect is oil pressure relief valve sticking? Or have I missed the point somewhere?
Yep... Could be other things too but definitely seems to be a pressure issue when the oil is hot (and thinner)
Fine under gentle driving conditions but not happy when driven hard for a sustained period ::)
[edit]Should add... Was suspect when the car was collected from MDTM :y[/edit]
Is there any other way?
The noise can't be heard in the car with scuttle on, but I'm sure I would have noticed it before with bonnet up, and Kevin Wood would have noticed when I drove into his garage.
I still don't believe in coincidence :-/
I must confess, it's still hard to accept. But as we said, if you hadn't done any work you'd have looked at lifters much earlier in the diagnosis.
Just hope that it's fairly simple to put right.
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I think checking the oil pressure is the next move - before it's driven hard, just in case.
To that end, if the thread's the same, you are welcome to borrow the pressure gauge off the Westfield for a while? Just thinking it can be chucked on top of the dash so you can keep an eye on it while driving.
Kevin
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I think checking the oil pressure is the next move - before it's driven hard, just in case.
To that end, if the thread's the same, you are welcome to borrow the pressure gauge off the Westfield for a while? Just thinking it can be chucked on top of the dash so you can keep an eye on it while driving.
Kevin
In a tunnie style gaffer tape setup ;D ;D ;D
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I think checking the oil pressure is the next move - before it's driven hard, just in case.
To that end, if the thread's the same, you are welcome to borrow the pressure gauge off the Westfield for a while? Just thinking it can be chucked on top of the dash so you can keep an eye on it while driving.
Kevin
In a tunnie style gaffer tape setup ;D ;D ;D
The only way to bodge, is tunnie style 8-)
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I think checking the oil pressure is the next move - before it's driven hard, just in case.
To that end, if the thread's the same, you are welcome to borrow the pressure gauge off the Westfield for a while? Just thinking it can be chucked on top of the dash so you can keep an eye on it while driving.
Kevin
In a tunnie style gaffer tape setup ;D ;D ;D
As long as an appropriate fuse is fitted, along with colour-coordinated gaffer tape. ;D
Kevin
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I think checking the oil pressure is the next move - before it's driven hard, just in case.
To that end, if the thread's the same, you are welcome to borrow the pressure gauge off the Westfield for a while? Just thinking it can be chucked on top of the dash so you can keep an eye on it while driving.
Kevin
In a tunnie style gaffer tape setup ;D ;D ;D
Oi! Dont bring me into your mess! ;D
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delighted, excellent news, well done "team"... ::) ;)
We decided that you might have been the "Curse" as you weren't here today ::) ::) :D :D :D
yeah yeah, notice i congratulated the team, not the manager...
;D ;)
just prooves the fault lay with the grumpy car and owner, obviosly...we did our bit no problem. :y
In all seriousness, it was one of those dreadful coincidences that would probably have been one of the first things checked if the LPG work hadn't been done :y :y
Definitely seems to be related to oil temperature (and thus pressure) :-/
Have you got an oil pressure tester Mr DTM? :y
Should have by the end of this week
Has tester been acquired yet?
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what have I missed ? I've been away for a couple of weeks (ahem) "with MoD"
is it sorted ?
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what have I missed ? I've been away for a couple of weeks (ahem) "with MoD"
is it sorted ?
Well, it's looking better. Mark found a couple of marginal lifters and a leaky EGR pipe. one or t'other of those has stopped the really concerning noise but it's still a little more rattly than normal, IMHO.
We got the LPG conversion finished last weekend and noticed, while mapping it, that the noise got much worse if it was given a bit of "spirited" driving. Keep it below 3K RPM and it's fine. Drive it hard and it gets progressively noisier and takes perhaps 5 or 10 minutes of gentle driving / idling to subside.
Seems oil temperature related, in my mind. Get the oil stinking hot and the lifters start to grumble (it's all the lifters now, too, but just a rattle. no sign of any bottom end noises).
Currently wondering if the oil pressure is a little low due to (for example) a stuck relief valve, and it gets worse with hot oil.
No oil light, and there's plenty of oil getting up to the top end but current thinking is to get an oil pressure gauge on it and see what that tells us.
Kevin
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sounds logical - when's the filter last changed ?
and has it got the right grade of oil in it ?
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sounds logical - when's the filter last changed ?
and has it got the right grade of oil in it ?
I know the oil and filter only had 1500 miles on it when the problem first arose and I believe Jaime said it's had a flush with lifter treatment and some fresh oil since the bad lifters were replaced.
Kevin
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it's had a flush with[/highlight] lifter treatment and some fresh oil since the bad lifters were replaced.
Kevin
Disturbed sh1te blocking an oil way? :-/ :-/
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sounds logical - when's the filter last changed ?
and has it got the right grade of oil in it ?
About 400 miles ago, and its got GM 10/40 semi in it.
Toying with doing another quick change, as it did have some Forte oil flush put through just before last oil change in the hope it may unstick any slightly sticky oil pressure bypass...
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sounds logical - when's the filter last changed ?
and has it got the right grade of oil in it ?
TB is very anal about his oil changes, every 3k 10w40 semi simf.
But with 160k on his clock i wondered about using some of that thicker mineral oil they use for old classics with clapped out, sorry, wider tolerance engines. (snigger) ::) ;)
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sounds logical - when's the filter last changed ?
and has it got the right grade of oil in it ?
About 400 miles ago, and its got GM 10/40 semi in it.
Toying with doing another quick change, as it did have some Forte oil flush put through just before last oil change in the hope it may unstick any slightly sticky oil pressure bypass...
I would wait until it's had a gauge on it. If the rest of the engine is like it is under the cam covers there's no crud to worry about.
Kevin
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had the sump off ?
in my ex-plod car, I found three o-rings caught in the oil pick-up.
easy to do as well
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had the sump off ?
in my ex-plod car, I found three o-rings caught in the oil pick-up.
easy to do as well
Not had sump off.
Have less than ideal facilities here for that kind of work (tarmac drive, and always very, very dusty).
The only people to have cam covers off are myself (all gaskets/o rings accounted for), Marks DTM (likewise), and Kevin Wood (all reused). Not sure if any other foreign matter could have got into system, assuming we are going along with the theory that the current issue was related to the previous issue, and that seemed to happen at some point before it enter Kevin Wood's garage :-/
If the oil pressure shows to be low, certainly worth investigating the strainer though :y
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don't suggest sump off, guess who would be roped in to do that :(
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don't suggest sump off, guess who would be roped in to do that :(
You have a clean garage ;) (well, cleaner than my tarmac drive)
But the sump probably isn't coming off until a pressure gauge has indicated its the next step ;)
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Am I right in thinking that this thread was about the silver bullet and pt2 was about the golden nugget?
Was there any good news at the end?
If not good news was there a definitive diagnosis of the malady and what caused it??
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Am I right in thinking that this thread was about the silver bullet and pt2 was about the golden nugget?
Was there any good news at the end?
If not good news was there a definitive diagnosis of the malady and what caused it??
Correct.
Silver Bullet still has an issue, now sounds lifter related...
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Am I right in thinking that this thread was about the silver bullet and pt2 was about the golden nugget?
Was there any good news at the end?
If not good news was there a definitive diagnosis of the malady and what caused it??
Correct.
Silver Bullet still has an issue, now sounds lifter related...
Has MarksDTM managed to take any oil pressure readings?
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Am I right in thinking that this thread was about the silver bullet and pt2 was about the golden nugget?
Was there any good news at the end?
If not good news was there a definitive diagnosis of the malady and what caused it??
Correct.
Silver Bullet still has an issue, now sounds lifter related...
Has MarksDTM managed to take any oil pressure readings?
Not yet I'm afraid, I believe he is still waiting for something before he can attempt it.
Current status appears to be that its tapperty when cold for a few secs. Not really caned it (too much ::)), so not sure if it returns at high rpm for and length of time - sounded quiet-ish after a 6m 'incident' following a Porsche the other night ::)
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Slightly off topic but might be helpful.
The Rover V8 has an aluminium timing cover on the front of the block that include the oil pump and pressure relief valve. The pressure relief valve is hard steel bucket with a spring in it in a soft aluminium bore. When the bore wears a ridge develops and the bucket is prone to sticking on the ridge and dumping the oil pressure.
A fix for the problem was a tadpole relief valve instead of a bucket (the tail of the tadpole goes inside the spring and the head gets pushed up against the pressure relief port).
With the Rover V8 you can check the oil pump by pulling out the distributor and using an electric drill to turn the oil pump using an 18" long drive shaft. Not so easy on the V6 :(
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Not even sure where oil pump is on v6 (never bothered to look/find out) - guessing behind crank pulley ?
Before worrying if it is the oil pump, need to get some oil pressure diags done first.
It may be something as simple as collapsed/tired lifter on the other bank - difficult to locate, as you have about 5s from a cold start before it goes. Probably also needs a more experienced ear than mine :-[
Maybe I should try to find a day when Mr DTM needs a hand doing something, so I can get there early, be his bitch for a few hours, then start mine up and let him listen ;D.
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Yes, the oil pump is behind the front pulley. A gear on the nose of the crankshaft sits inside a ring with teeth on the inside. The ring has slightly more teeth than the gear and runs off centre to the gear to leave a crescent shaped gap that pulls oil in at one end and squeezes it out at high pressure the other.
I think that type of oil pump is nigh on indestructible. Any problems are likely to be caused by blown or worn seals or gaskets (or sticky relief valve or blocked pickup as discussed previously).
I was convinced that either the relief valve or the non return valve on my previous V6 was stuck open because of the racket the tappets made when started from cold but as an oil change was easier than pulling the oil pump off to inspect it I tried it on fully synthetic first.
Either the 5w30 fixed it or the problem fixed itself but I stuck to fully synth oil after that.
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Yes, the oil pump is behind the front pulley. A gear on the nose of the crankshaft sits inside a ring with teeth on the inside. The ring has slightly more teeth than the gear and runs off centre to the gear to leave a crescent shaped gap that pulls oil in at one end and squeezes it out at high pressure the other.
I think that type of oil pump is nigh on indestructible. Any problems are likely to be caused by blown or worn seals or gaskets (or sticky relief valve or blocked pickup as discussed previously).
I was convinced that either the relief valve or the non return valve on my previous V6 was stuck open because of the racket the tappets made when started from cold but as an oil change was easier than pulling the oil pump off to inspect it I tried it on fully synthetic first.
Either the 5w30 fixed it or the problem fixed itself but I stuck to fully synth oil after that.
Forte English Oil Flush seems to help mine for a couple of days :-X
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Yes, the oil pump is behind the front pulley. A gear on the nose of the crankshaft sits inside a ring with teeth on the inside. The ring has slightly more teeth than the gear and runs off centre to the gear to leave a crescent shaped gap that pulls oil in at one end and squeezes it out at high pressure the other.
I think that type of oil pump is nigh on indestructible. Any problems are likely to be caused by blown or worn seals or gaskets (or sticky relief valve or blocked pickup as discussed previously).
I was convinced that either the relief valve or the non return valve on my previous V6 was stuck open because of the racket the tappets made when started from cold but as an oil change was easier than pulling the oil pump off to inspect it I tried it on fully synthetic first.
Either the 5w30 fixed it or the problem fixed itself but I stuck to fully synth oil after that.
Forte English Oil Flush seems to help mine for a couple of days :-X
Interesting sounding product, wonder if they do a Welsh version for use around here?
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Yes, the oil pump is behind the front pulley. A gear on the nose of the crankshaft sits inside a ring with teeth on the inside. The ring has slightly more teeth than the gear and runs off centre to the gear to leave a crescent shaped gap that pulls oil in at one end and squeezes it out at high pressure the other.
I think that type of oil pump is nigh on indestructible. Any problems are likely to be caused by blown or worn seals or gaskets (or sticky relief valve or blocked pickup as discussed previously).
I was convinced that either the relief valve or the non return valve on my previous V6 was stuck open because of the racket the tappets made when started from cold but as an oil change was easier than pulling the oil pump off to inspect it I tried it on fully synthetic first.
Either the 5w30 fixed it or the problem fixed itself but I stuck to fully synth oil after that.
Forte English Oil Flush seems to help mine for a couple of days :-X
Interesting sounding product, wonder if they do a Welsh version for use around here?
What, to get the sheep fur out of your smalls?
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sheep fur ;D ;D ;D or wool as its also known ;D ;D ;D
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sheep fur ;D ;D ;D or wool as its also known ;D ;D ;D
Trust a welshman to know that. So when you say you wear wollen undies, they aren't bought from M&S then, but are actually 'leftovers' ::)
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sheep fur ;D ;D ;D or wool as its also known ;D ;D ;D
Trust a welshman to know that. So when you say you wear wollen undies, they aren't bought from M&S then, but are actually 'leftovers' ::)
wouldn't say left overs....the sheeps still in em too ;D
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dont think oil pressure gauge is particularly expensive, but on the other hand, you'll probably never use it again, local mech has one as discussed recently, he's only used it once or twice and he runs a busy shop.
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
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cough cough, bit dusty in here!
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
It sorted itself out.
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Which surprised me as it sounded as though there was a little man with a couple of lump hammers having a fit under the bonnet.
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
It sorted itself out.
A happy ending after many gremlins :o :y
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Which surprised me as it sounded as though there was a little man with a couple of lump hammers having a fit under the bonnet.
Where do you think Sammy went? ::)
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
So long ago he can't remember ;D ;D ;D ;)
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
So long ago he can't remember ;D ;D ;D ;)
Yes I seem to remember it wasn't as simple as 'it sorted itself out' ::)
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What was the diagnosis of this in the end :-\
So long ago he can't remember ;D ;D ;D ;)
Yes I seem to remember it wasn't as simple as 'it sorted itself out' ::)
Yeah, it did ;)
Brief overview:
Drove into KW's garage one Friday night, purring.
Converted to LPG
Started up Sunday eve, "Oh dear"
Spent a couple of weeks poncing, no improvement.
Got it out of KW's garage, as he'd been ice skating in his Westfield, and took to MDTM
MDTM found a manifold to egr pipe split, and a lazy lifter, replaced 12 lifters.
Finished off LPG at LazyArse's house, and started LPG calibration... "Oh dear, during the high speed runs".
Drove home very slowly, under 80mph all the way.
Flushed oil with a strong oil flush, and took for a "spirited drive" on verbal instruction from MDTM. "Very Oh Dear", as it dumped 9l of coolant up the windscreen.
Turns out, by "spirited", he actually did not mean "wrangle its nuts".
Changed oil, put in Wynns, turn radio up.
Plan was to test oil pressure... ...never did, it sorted itself out, and I forgot all about it :-[. Suppose I should check really... ...but its working.
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If it ain't broke ......
Speaking of lifters, really should take my 3.2 to master to see what he thinks regarding tappets noise.
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If it ain't broke ......
Speaking of lifters, really should take my 3.2 to master to see what he thinks regarding tappets noise.
Compared to the stuff he normally plays with, I suspect he won't hear it ;D
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Pardon?
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If it ain't broke ......
Speaking of lifters, really should take my 3.2 to master to see what he thinks regarding tappets noise.
Compared to the stuff he normally plays with, I suspect he won't hear it ;D
Actually, thats unfair. You could hear it, even above a rattly dmu
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Pardon?
Deafness happens... ...its called getting to the big 4-0 :P
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Pardon?
Deafness happens... ...its called getting to the big 4-0 :P
I must be stone deaf then ::)