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[05omegav6]

AS ABOVE.

IF YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE SO THEN REPLACE THE WISHBONES IMMEDIATELY.

FAILURE TO DO SO COULD WELL RESULT IN DEATH.

Just in case you think that I am being melodramatic... Mine were checked a when I last changed the pads, so six weeks ago? and were perfectly fine. Just had a wishbone snap at speed, and was unbelievably lucky as the car is still upright and otherwise intact and more importantly, no one else was involved.

Make no mistake though, it took the WHOLE road to stop.

As the old saying goes... A picture paints a thousand words...



 

[JamesV6CDX]

Soil the bed!!!!!!!

Glad you are ok though mate

[05omegav6]

For the record, these had been fitted for about 18 months and 6k

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

You haven't been driving like a certain admin have you?

Seriously though, glad you're OK...

[05omegav6]

Moi?

Thanks for the thoughts, entirely self inflicted though

It was a considered risk, the shock being just how suddenly they failed. No warning, car driving fine, then bang. Had justed driven through Adversane, if anyone knows this part of the world. Fortunately absolutely no traffic at 5 am.

[Broomies Mate]

Glad you are alright 'Arris.

I had a failure of a Bilstein B4 shocker (NSF) on an Omega.  I took pictures of it with the intent of sharing here.  There was a clear break, but 40% of the fracture was rusty and obviously a manufacturing defect.  Sadly, before I had chance to upload the images from my phone, it went tits up and I lost all the photos.

We live and learn - Thankfully!

[YZ250]

Glad you are ok Al. 

It would appear that the stress is too much for the rear bush to be changed as they go at the weakest point.    Although a poly'd front bush is controlling more of a radial movement I still have concerns as to where the transmitted shock ends up. 

[Jimbob]

Are you aware of anyone else having done this?

Was there someone else. Maybe razzo?

What was fitted there?  Where they the homemade ones?

Just trying to get a picture of how widespread this could be.

[Broomies Mate]

That 'bone looks to be in very good condition (no surface rust as usual) so it must be a relatively new component.  What Wishbone was it?

[05omegav6]

Bushes were Powerflex Black Series ones for Sierra outer control arms, sliced horizontally to allow a bit of slip, rather than home spun.

Wishbones were Firstline but had been on for 20k. These were replaced by Atp ones. Once the Atp ones wore out, the Firstline ones were re bushed and fitted with polys and new ball joints.

As to the take up of these bushes, they were suggested to a few people on an advisory basis, ie that they were experimental and that I would be monitoring mine closely, more so after Razzos failure.

Clearly these bushes are also not upto scratch, unless the arms can be strengthened someway, which will potentially push the loading elsewhere.

Hence making a this post as clear as possible in order to ensure that no one suffers the same failure.

[Marks DTM Calib]

No surprise.

If you consider the loads, the rear bush has to allow the suspension to compress and a stiff part will mean the steel will have to flex considerably, the result is a fatigue failure at the weakest point (in this case the weld).

The front bush is very different, you could argue that the loadings are less as the poly is more likely to allow the wishbone end to rotate more than the press fit rubber variant.

[Gaffers]

Glad you are ok.  Shopping for new trousers today I bet

Are we sure it's due to the bushes and not a manufacturing defect on the bones?

[Bojan]

Can you please take some more picture of the breaking point when the whishbone is dismantled from the car?
I'm interested to see how the break looks like?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Scary stuff  and I'm glad you're OK Al! 

[Entwood]

Glad you are OK Al .. some "used" trousers for sale I guess ... scary stuff....

[Sir Tigger KC]

This makes me wonder at the wisdom about doing any modification to cheap wishbones. 

I binned a set of ATP wishbones recently when I noticed slight cracking in the welds around the rear bushes.  I'd polybushed the front a couple of months earlier and can't say that was the cause, but it makes you wonder.   

[X30XE]

No surprise.

If you consider the loads, the rear bush has to allow the suspension to compress and a stiff part will mean the steel will have to flex considerably, the result is a fatigue failure at the weakest point (in this case the weld).

Agreed. Uri Geller's wishbone. 

The front bush is very different, you could argue that the loadings are less as the poly is more likely to allow the wishbone end to rotate more than the press fit rubber variant.

Unless the crush tube is too short/poly too long, which seemingly is the case with most powerflex products. 

[VXL V6]

Clearly the stresses with rear poly is too much but equally, I've yet to see any first line product that I would fit to anything a human is being transported in.

[Shackeng]

No surprise.

If you consider the loads, the rear bush has to allow the suspension to compress and a stiff part will mean the steel will have to flex considerably, the result is a fatigue failure at the weakest point (in this case the weld).

Agreed. Uri Geller's wishbone. 

The front bush is very different, you could argue that the loadings are less as the poly is more likely to allow the wishbone end to rotate more than the press fit rubber variant.

Unless the crush tube is too short/poly too long, which seemingly is the case with most powerflex products. 

Glad that you are OK Al, and thanks for the heads up.
I asked the question a few years ago as to whether the poly front bushes caused unwanted stress elsewhere, and I think the answer was "No".
I am somewhat concerned about the comment on Powerflex quality given that I have them in the front of both of mine.

[Steve B]

Al do you think that had been going over a period of time then finally let go... or just sort of went...

[terry paget]

Any accident is traumatic, congratulations on your lucky escape, Al.

We discussed the strange layout of the Omega front wishbone rubbers in a thread earlier this year. Obviously if the bushes only allowed rotation about the bolts the suspension would not move at all. If owners restrict movement in the rubbers to improve handling they increase flexing loads on the wishbones. Whether they are strong enough to take these loads owners must decide. The calculations are beyond me, so I trust Adam Opel engineers and the test of time, and leave mine alone.

I thought you were on your hols in the South of France, Al, Adversane sounds quite exotic. Googling it I find it is a suburb of Horsham, Sussex. At least you are near home.

[05omegav6]

Let go all of a sudden... Had felt perfectly poised through the sweeping bends immediately prior.

Will compare the left and right arms once I have removed them...

New pair on order from ATP as I type...

[ted_one]

Glad you're OK Al, also glad I stuck with the standard set ups

[TheBoy]

Having experimented with rear vertical polys myself, I wouldn't recommend them.  I was lucky, in my case the poly failed in my GM wishbones, and you could see the loading stresses. With a poly, the wishbone is forced to flex, which will always result in failure.

Admittedly mine probably took more of a hammering than most, but didn't last long at all, so I'd always recommend Powerflex front, GM rear and GM wishbones.

[minifreek]

Glad your OK Al and nowt nasty happened

I polybushed new LemForder wishbones about 18 moths ago.... better get checking them...

[05omegav6]

Having experimented with rear vertical polys myself, I wouldn't recommend them.  I was lucky, in my case the poly failed in my GM wishbones, and you could see the loading stresses. With a poly, the wishbone is forced to flex, which will always result in failure.

Admittedly mine probably took more of a hammering than most, but didn't last long at all, so I'd always recommend Powerflex front, GM rear and GM wishbones.

It is worth noting for clarity, that the polys TB had fitted were a solid type with almost no give and were the same as Razzos iirc

The ones I fitted where designed as suspension bushes, albeit for a different car, and were dimensionally identical to the originals, ie they were a perfect interference fit to the wishbone and were the same height in the subframe.

[TheBoy]

Having experimented with rear vertical polys myself, I wouldn't recommend them.  I was lucky, in my case the poly failed in my GM wishbones, and you could see the loading stresses. With a poly, the wishbone is forced to flex, which will always result in failure.

Admittedly mine probably took more of a hammering than most, but didn't last long at all, so I'd always recommend Powerflex front, GM rear and GM wishbones.

It is worth noting for clarity, that the polys TB had fitted were a solid type with almost no give and were the same as Razzos iirc

The ones I fitted where designed as suspension bushes, albeit for a different car, and were dimensionally identical to the originals, ie they were a perfect interference fit to the wishbone and were the same height in the subframe.

I know you use those shitty ATP wishbones, but the fact remains that even your more complex bush setup caused the wishbone to fail catastrophically (and potentially lethally).  I think this finally puts an end to vertical poly experiments?

I'm just so glad that it happened at a time when you were able to control it and bring it to a stop, unharmed

[05omegav6]

Having experimented with rear vertical polys myself, I wouldn't recommend them.  I was lucky, in my case the poly failed in my GM wishbones, and you could see the loading stresses. With a poly, the wishbone is forced to flex, which will always result in failure.

Admittedly mine probably took more of a hammering than most, but didn't last long at all, so I'd always recommend Powerflex front, GM rear and GM wishbones.

It is worth noting for clarity, that the polys TB had fitted were a solid type with almost no give and were the same as Razzos iirc

The ones I fitted where designed as suspension bushes, albeit for a different car, and were dimensionally identical to the originals, ie they were a perfect interference fit to the wishbone and were the same height in the subframe.

I know you use those shitty ATP wishbones, but the fact remains that even your more complex bush setup caused the wishbone to fail catastrophically (and potentially lethally).  I think this finally puts an end to vertical poly experiments?

I'm just so glad that it happened at a time when you were able to control it and bring it to a stop, unharmed

Indeed, hence posting whilst waiting for the AA

[flyer 0712]

Glad you are all ok after such a shocking event......just looking and thinking what has happened to you should be a lesson to us all...leave well enough alone.

[joff]

Having experimented with rear vertical polys myself, I wouldn't recommend them.  I was lucky, in my case the poly failed in my GM wishbones, and you could see the loading stresses. With a poly, the wishbone is forced to flex, which will always result in failure.

Admittedly mine probably took more of a hammering than most, but didn't last long at all, so I'd always recommend Powerflex front, GM rear and GM wishbones.

It is worth noting for clarity, that the polys TB had fitted were a solid type with almost no give and were the same as Razzos iirc

The ones I fitted where designed as suspension bushes, albeit for a different car, and were dimensionally identical to the originals, ie they were a perfect interference fit to the wishbone and were the same height in the subframe.

I know you use those shitty ATP wishbones, but the fact remains that even your more complex bush setup caused the wishbone to fail catastrophically (and potentially lethally).  I think this finally puts an end to vertical poly experiments?

I'm just so glad that it happened at a time when you were able to control it and bring it to a stop, unharmed

Indeed, hence posting whilst waiting for the AA

This is not the first time we have seen this is it. So why keep putting them on Al, Poly the front and that's it Glad your still with us. Was this on the Irmscher estate

[Marks DTM Calib]

I have no worries about the front poly bushes or any of the dimension.

If you look at the design and layout, the forces they see are mainly in the horizontal plain and the movement is rotational around the centre line of the bush, all good and the wish bones will see no increased stresses as a result of the polys being fitted in fact, all the polys do is stiffen up the connection to the subframe so the only potential point of stress increase would be here (and its built like a brick out house so absolutely no worries).

The rears are different, due to the sub frame and suspension design the bush is vertical and has to be able to withstand a rotational movement which is perpendicular to the centre line of the bush. Make this one stiff and you increase loadings on the wishbone significantly. Every time the suspension leg compresses/expands the flex in the wishbone will be much greater than designed and the result will be fatigue and consequentially failure.

[05omegav6]

No John, the plod one

Not a question of keeping on fitting them, they've been on the car since Jan/Feb '14, as a long term test... But I totally agree that if two completely different approaches to these rear bushes both result in the same failure mode, then this obviously isn't the solution that was hoped for. Any other solution is likely to demand a reworking of the rear mounting on the subframe, and in the words of Peter Jones, I'm out.

On the plus side, something hasn't been tested properly until it has been tested to destruction

[05omegav6]

I have no worries about the front poly bushes or any of the dimension.

If you look at the design and layout, the forces they see are mainly in the horizontal plain and the movement is rotational around the centre line of the bush, all good and the wish bones will see no increased stresses as a result of the polys being fitted in fact, all the polys do is stiffen up the connection to the subframe so the only potential point of stress increase would be here (and its built like a brick out house so absolutely no worries).

The rears are different, due to the sub frame and suspension design the bush is vertical and has to be able to withstand a rotational movement which is perpendicular to the centre line of the bush. Make this one stiff and you increase loadings on the wishbone significantly. Every time the suspension leg compresses/expands the flex in the wishbone will be much greater than designed and the result will be fatigue and consequentially failure.

The original bushes I used were soft enough to allow full movement of the wishbone in its normal range, but lacked the strength to support the arm against braking and steering forces causing some odd traits during braking and cornering. The second set were much firmer, but required no more force to fit the ball joint to the strut than the factory ones.

[Marks DTM Calib]

What you need to think about is the construction of the genuine bushes, they are a rubber with an internal pocket and shape which means they remain stiff but, can absorb shock loading, polyurethane simply can not do this 

[Andy H]

What you need to think about is the construction of the genuine bushes, they are a rubber with an internal pocket and shape which means they remain stiff but, can absorb shock loading, polyurethane simply can not do this 

The optimum would be some kind of ball joint that allowed zero lateral & longitudinal movement but permitted the arm to hinge up & down.

The genuine rear bush that I cut open had a ball formed half way along the steel centre bush and the rubber formed around it. Given the small space available it is going to be very difficult to come up with something that works better than the genuine VX part.

[05omegav6]

Indeed... Pattern ones are a broadly similar design to the originals.

[deviator]

Whilst not directly relevant here, the Powerflex Black bushes are for the track. Even PF say they are far to stiff for road use.

[terry paget]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

[Mr Gav]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

That's exactly what I was thinking, the Senator had this arrangement but the horizontal bush was at the rear but I always wondered why it didn`t have two horizontal bushes.

[05omegav6]

Whilst not directly relevant here, the Powerflex Black bushes are for the track. Even PF say they are far to stiff for road use.

Presumably because most people would find the NVH levels unacceptable 

[Rods2]

Glad you are okay, as that is the most important when things go wrong, that we get away with it.

I guess you won't be needing any laxatives for a week or two.

[X30XE]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

That's exactly what I was thinking, the Senator had this arrangement but the horizontal bush was at the rear but I always wondered why it didn`t have two horizontal bushes.

To stop the wishbone moving backwards under braking. How else are you going to achieve that? 

[X30XE]

I have no worries about the front poly bushes or any of the dimension.

If you look at the design and layout, the forces they see are mainly in the horizontal plain and the movement is rotational around the centre line of the bush, all good and the wish bones will see no increased stresses as a result of the polys being fitted in fact, all the polys do is stiffen up the connection to the subframe so the only potential point of stress increase would be here (and its built like a brick out house so absolutely no worries).

The rears are different, due to the sub frame and suspension design the bush is vertical and has to be able to withstand a rotational movement which is perpendicular to the centre line of the bush. Make this one stiff and you increase loadings on the wishbone significantly. Every time the suspension leg compresses/expands the flex in the wishbone will be much greater than designed and the result will be fatigue and consequentially failure.

If the crush tube isn't long enough the poly 'shoulder' gets pinched between the wishbone and the chassis which causes it to grip the wishbone.  Admittedly not to the extent of fitting a solid poly to the rear, but still far from ideal.  There's a video on youtube somewhere showing someone else's poly with a chamfered shoulder which doesn't do this ( more like the OE fitting).

[05omegav6]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

That's exactly what I was thinking, the Senator had this arrangement but the horizontal bush was at the rear but I always wondered why it didn`t have two horizontal bushes.

To stop the wishbone moving backwards under braking. How else are you going to achieve that? 

Eh? Have you looked under a Vectra C?

[X30XE]

Nope. I'm not poor

[blue_dream]

Hi
Bloody hell, i'm not sure to these polybushes myself, if the bushes need replacing on the arms the complete arm gets replaced and much easy to do, i'm lead to believe that the front bush that goes into the sub frame is the one that takes most ware due to front motion under braking etc.
   I can remember along time back that their was a recall on the wishbones from someone but were fitted to vectras, same thing as yourself, arm snapping at weilds, but some were saying this was too the car being jacked up on them. 

[D]

Glad you are ok Al.

[terry paget]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

That's exactly what I was thinking, the Senator had this arrangement but the horizontal bush was at the rear but I always wondered why it didn`t have two horizontal bushes.

To stop the wishbone moving backwards under braking. How else are you going to achieve that? 

How indeed, X30XE. I should have thought of that. Other cars have other links, tie rods, etc. for this purpose. Opel have found a way of doing it all with two bushes.both quite flexible. The design makes for good handling, comfort, silence and long life. I suspect it leads to uneven front tyre wear, but who knows? .

[Nick W]

I do not understand the thinking behind the vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me it should be horizontal and in line with the front bush - that would achieve a maintenance free lower wishbone, controlled by the MacPherson strut. Are rear vertical bushes common on other cars? Is there any paper explaining the wisdom, or even the point, of the vertical rear bush?

That's exactly what I was thinking, the Senator had this arrangement but the horizontal bush was at the rear but I always wondered why it didn`t have two horizontal bushes.

To stop the wishbone moving backwards under braking. How else are you going to achieve that? 

How indeed, X30XE. I should have thought of that. Other cars have other links, tie rods, etc. for this purpose. Opel have found a way of doing it all with two bushes.both quite flexible. The design makes for good handling, comfort, silence and long life. I suspect it leads to uneven front tyre wear, but who knows? .

ALL of the strut suspended cars I've owned or had anything to do with have suffered from wear in the suspension bushes. It didn't matter whether they used the anti-rollbar as a stabiliser(Capri, Sierra etc), or had separate arms to do the same job(Avenger, BMW etc).


I think the Omega setup(and it's used on Escorts and Fiestas to name others) is probably the least durable; and it's worse the heavier the car gets and compounded by large wheels and tyres. Does that sound familiar?

[aaronjb]

Speaking of front suspension.. wandering around Goodwood Revival yesterday I took a look at the front lower arms on an Aston Martin DBR2 replica (beautiful, beautiful car) and noticed that they are a mirror image of the Omega lower wishbone; the front locating point uses a rose joint with the bolt passing down vertically while the rear uses a rose joint with the bolt passing through horizontally.

Picture says a thousand words: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aqxkdwgeIBE/UVX__PSwIwI/AAAAAAAAAjk/Bi4G0S84Rks/s1600/IMG_0115.jpg


But, a similar vintage Jaguar would use a single long pivot bolt going through both sides of the lower arm meaning the whole arm rotates around the pivot bolt.

Again, a picture says a thousand words: http://valvechatter.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SCAN0366.jpg


If only I understood the why's & wherefores of one design over the other.

[Nick W]

Speaking of front suspension.. wandering around Goodwood Revival yesterday I took a look at the front lower arms on an Aston Martin DBR2 replica (beautiful, beautiful car) and noticed that they are a mirror image of the Omega lower wishbone; the front locating point uses a rose joint with the bolt passing down vertically while the rear uses a rose joint with the bolt passing through horizontally.

Picture says a thousand words: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aqxkdwgeIBE/UVX__PSwIwI/AAAAAAAAAjk/Bi4G0S84Rks/s1600/IMG_0115.jpg


But, a similar vintage Jaguar would use a single long pivot bolt going through both sides of the lower arm meaning the whole arm rotates around the pivot bolt.

Again, a picture says a thousand words: http://valvechatter.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SCAN0366.jpg


If only I understood the why's & wherefores of one design over the other.

It seems to depend on what parts were in the bin, how the designer had seen it done before and how much cheese he'd eaten the night before.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Remember this was the 50s, and design was in a very much different state to what it is now. Motor Cars not even existing was still in living memory.

There was still much more experimentation with the 'basics' of vehicle design whereas now the experimentation lies in magnetic shock absorbers, computer systems like next-gen Traction Control EBD etc... more extensive use of alloys, how cheap can we make this before it fails and costs us lawsuits etc..

Nowadays many aspects are just taken as read, as a given. But in the 50s there was still plenty of rich modification of suspension design, and there simply was no 'norm'.

[Marks DTM Calib]

If you look at the sub frame design of the Omega, it would be quite a challenging to support a horizontal bush in the rear part of the wishbone and allow the bolt to be accessed.

[Gaffers]

If you look at the sub frame design of the Omega, it would be quite a challenging to support a horizontal bush in the rear part of the wishbone and allow the bolt to be accessed.

Indeed.  Even on the XJR where you have quite a bit of room, getting access to remove the bolts is...interesting....

[terry paget]

What you need to think about is the construction of the genuine bushes, they are a rubber with an internal pocket and shape which means they remain stiff but, can absorb shock loading, polyurethane simply can not do this 

The optimum would be some kind of ball joint that allowed zero lateral & longitudinal movement but permitted the arm to hinge up & down.

The genuine rear bush that I cut open had a ball formed half way along the steel centre bush and the rubber formed around it. Given the small space available it is going to be very difficult to come up with something that works better than the genuine VX part.

I believe the front bush is not a simple short fat rubber cylinder, but a complicated item with a solid centre and a porous outer. Now you say the rear bush is similarly a complicated rubber structure. I have never cut one up and have none lying around at the moment. I presume the poly replacement is a simple cylinder of polyurethane, much less yielding than the rubber original. Clearly a lot of development has gone into the design of the wishbone and its bushes. I am surprised  some folk think they can improve upon it.

[05omegav6]

Front bush should have oil filled bladders within... Some cheapy ones don't, Atp cheapies do.

Nothing porous about them though

[Kevin Wood]

Nothing porous about them though

.. until you start cutting them out with a hacksaw.

[05omegav6]

Nothing porous about them though

.. until you start cutting them out with a hacksaw.

They do get rather messy

[05omegav6]

Right, wishbone removed... had failed at the end of all four welds, and in pretty short order too by the looks









Also some interesting wear on the stainless bush, suggesting that the arm might have been able to move as intended...



Anyways, clearly summat wasn't right, and it will be interesting to see what state the passenger side is in when I remove that tomorrow...

[Lazydocker]

It doesn't help that the bush carrier isn't welded all the way around either.

Glad yo escaped with nothing more than brown trousers though 

[05omegav6]

Right, near side arm off, and...


It has clearly taken a whack... (kerb in the carpark at work  ), but otherwise perfect...




No cracks, no stress marks, but one notable difference...

Continous weld around the rear bush.

[henryd]

If those two arms started off as a matched pair then the one that broke missed the QC process as it broke where the weld finished whereas t'other is continuous welded,quite scary really and easily missed unless looking for it

[05omegav6]

It's actually unusual for them to have a continuous weld... So that one wouldn't have been flagged, as it effectively has been welded over spec

[henryd]

It's actually unusual for them to have a continuous weld... So that one wouldn't have been flagged, as it effectively has been welded over spec

Normally done by a machine though so would have thought they would have been both the same

[Sir Tigger KC]

So is it that GM wishbones are welded all the way round the bush carrier and cheap patterns are partially welded? 

[05omegav6]

So is it that GM wishbones are welded all the way round the bush carrier and cheap patterns are partially welded? 

Not that I am aware, simply that the amount of welding varies...

Both of those arms were from a single supplier, and bagged identically, iirc Firstline from local factors

[TheBoy]

It's actually unusual for them to have a continuous weld... So that one wouldn't have been flagged, as it effectively has been welded over spec

Your beloved, shitty ATP wishbones?

[05omegav6]

It's actually unusual for them to have a continuous weld... So that one wouldn't have been flagged, as it effectively has been welded over spec

Your beloved, shitty ATP wishbones?

Nah, fairly sure these were Firstline shitty wishbones...

[Shackeng]

It sounds as if a little extra welding post purchase could be worth doing on the pattern 'bones.

[Andy H]

It sounds as if a little extra welding post purchase could be worth doing on the pattern 'bones.

I considered doing that when I fitted new bushes to mine but decided against it for two reasons
1. I have heard that DIY MIG welding produces brittle welds (if anyone knows better please say )
2. if the worst did happen my welding is bound to look different to the factory weld and I was worried that an insurance inspector could use it against me

[05omegav6]

I have a local fabrication company who might be able to help...

http://www.blaker.co.uk/

I bought two sets, one to throw on the white one and a set for the black one, so will get the second set looked at... Might even get them seam welded all round if possible...