Topic: Head Gasket or Heater Bypass valve??? (Read 1779 times)

187omeganew · « **on:** 17 December 2007, 09:54:05 »

Hi OOF,

I'm a new memeber and need your help!

I've recently purchased a 3.0 V6 Elite and I've just had the belts done. On doing the belts we noticed that there was rust around the head and on checking the oil sure enough there was lots of white in there i.e. water. I've seen from some of the posts that V6s rarely blow head gaskets and that its quite often the heater bypass valve - is there anyway to be sure or is it just a case of replacing the heater bypass valve - changing the oil and seeing what happens? I'm no mechanic so your advice would be greatly appreciated

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:03:39 »

It's true that head gasket failures are rare. White mayo in the oil is often just down to the car having done a lot of short journeys. I would recommend an oil change in any case with a new (to you) car and keeping up regular changes will help but a bit of mayo in the filler cap area is not uncommon on healthy Omegas.

It would also be worth checking that the breathers are clear (Have a look in the HOWTO section) as these are prone to blocking and efficient breathers will help keep the oil free of moisture as well as preventing the dreaded cam cover gaskets from failing.

Where was the rust you observed? Common leaks on the V6 can be the heater bypass valve round the back of the engine and the thermostat and oil cooler covers which sit in the "vee" of the engine.

Is it losing coolant at all? Is the coolant clean or does it look contaminated?

Kevin

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:04:16 »

Oh, and welcome to the Forum

Kevin

ffcgary1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:15:40 »

HI there, i changed the oil on my v6 on sunday and there was a small amount of mayo on the filler cap, but not to bad . I am taking the car on a 600 mile round trip to north yorkshire on tuesday so that will help to blow any condensation out of the motor.

If you do short journeys that adds to the problem, so regular [4,000] mile oil changes should help you keep everthing nice and clean. Head gasket failure is normally assosiated with serious overheating issues,and is very rare under normal conditions.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:21:24 »

Just to add, the heater bypass valve won't cause mayo in the oil if it fails. The main failure mode is that it leaks coolant so unless there are signs of a leak round the back of the engine or the coolant level is dropping I'd say it's probably fine.

Kevin

Elite Pete · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:26:32 »

Quote

Hi OOF,

I'm a new memeber and need your help!

I've recently purchased a 3.0 V6 Elite and I've just had the belts done. On doing the belts we noticed that there was rust around the head and on checking the oil sure enough there was lots of white in there i.e. water. I've seen from some of the posts that V6s rarely blow head gaskets and that its quite often the heater bypass valve - is there anyway to be sure or is it just a case of replacing the heater bypass valve - changing the oil and seeing what happens? I'm no mechanic so your advice would be greatly appreciated

I dont suppose your Elite was on Ebay until yesterday was it

Jimbob · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:41:38 »

Sounds very like the one I spotted, based around the corner from me in Ewloe?
We had a chat about that, find my 'interesting project' thread from Friday

Elite Pete · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:43:15 »

Quote

Sounds very like the one I spotted, based around the corner from me in Ewloe?
We had a chat about that, find my 'interesting project' thread from Friday

It does, it was pulled before the auction end so I couldnt get my sticky fingers on it

Jimbob · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 December 2007, 10:53:05 »

hmmm Sold early

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1197634855;start=all

187omeganew · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 December 2007, 12:55:36 »

Yes guys - it was me on Ebay. Sorry for pulling the auction early but on finding this site I had a glimmer of hope in saving the money I have invested in the car. Ebay would'nt let me finish the auction early so I had to do the "sell" the car to the highest bidder senario. I know this is not good Ebay ethics but I was desperate.

You'll prob remember from the Ebay description that I had purchased the car to drive to Spain. I had the Cam Belts done just as a precaution as I do not know when they had last been done. As you know I spent a good bit of money on the car since purchasing it i.e. Belts, Brakes all round, Tyre + 12 months MOT. Just under £500 which I have the receipt for.

I had hoped that maybe it wasn't as bad as first thought after looking through the forum but I just can't be sure and not being a mechanic I don't think I want to risk it driving to Spain.

When the mechanic did the belts he noticed rust around the front of the head - which lead him to suspect the head gaskets were on there way out. I know people have said that is more likely to be the heater bypass valve but that is located at the back of the engine right?

Anyway - if anyone wants to put me out of my misery I would take £500 for the car and cut my loses. I don't know what else to do.

Jimbob · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:01:05 »

That description does sound like it isn't the HBV, do you know EXACTLY where this patch is?
Your ad read a bit wooly as to what has been done...I gather just preventative stuff, ie Belts, tensioners, waterpump? Not any CAM work as such?

These do suffer from water leaks around the back, ie HBV, Coolant Bridge, Many pipes etc.

Some futher info will help the experts give you a better opinion

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:08:26 »

A picture of the area would be very useful in diagnosing the rusty head.

The heads are aluminium so they won't have rusted themselves. I suppose it could be a rusty stain from a previous leak in the valle area. Most likely from the thermostat or oil cooler cover than the heads, IMO.

If it was a dry stain and not actively leaking I wouldn't be too concerned. At the end of the day, many mechanics conclude that a head gasket has failed for the most spurious reasons whereas in reality it's rare on these engines.

If the car runs and drives OK, doesn't overheat and doesn't lose oil or water I wouldn't be too concerned.

Kevin

ffcgary1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:11:01 »

Sounds more like an oil cooler leak at the front of the heads, hbv at the back . :-?

Jimbob · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:12:51 »

Quote

A picture of the area would be very useful in diagnosing the rusty head.

The heads are aluminium so they won't have rusted themselves. I suppose it could be a rusty stain from a previous leak in the valle area. Most likely from the thermostat or oil cooler cover than the heads, IMO.

If it was a dry stain and not actively leaking I wouldn't be too concerned. At the end of the day, many mechanics conclude that a head gasket has failed for the most spurious reasons whereas in reality it's rare on these engines.

If the car runs and drives OK, doesn't overheat and doesn't lose oil or water I wouldn't be too concerned.

Kevin

Can't argue with that!

Are there any signs of Oil in the coolant tank,
Or any signs of water in the oil, ie on the dipstick? some white goo around the filler cap is not cause for concern on its own.

187omeganew · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:30:19 »

When the mechanic was putting the new belts on the engine you could see rust at the front of the engine block on both sides (I believe there are two gaskets on the V6?) - he showed me this rust and said he suspected it was coming from the gaskets but could'nt be sure. He said that there was no recent leakage obvious - whatever that means - but the rust indicated some kind of leak from the head. Like I say - I'm no mechanic this is just what I was told. Its possible that the leak is from the HBV and the water has just leaked all round the head hence the rust but I just don't know.

Jimbob · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:32:58 »

from that it does sound like an old (fixed / non existant) problem

Enjoy the car 8-)

Where did you have this work done out of interest?

187omeganew · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:40:24 »

There are no signs of oil on the dipstick - the oil looks clean?

Jimbob · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:42:51 »

Quote

There are no signs of oil on the dipstick - the oil looks clean?

OMG no oil on dipstick, its fatal

get some in fast

Jimbob · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 December 2007, 13:43:52 »

No water on the dipstick on the other hand is a good sign

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 December 2007, 14:15:58 »

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. Iron engine blocks go rusty with time. Doesn't mean imminent failure. It's highly unlikely that one head would start weeping water, let alone both on a V6 at the same time and if it's dry now there's no problem!

I'd have no hesitation driving it to Spain from what I've heard. I might be tempted to take a spare crank sensor and HBV just in case!

Kevin

Markjay · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 December 2007, 14:42:37 »

As said above by other members....

But the most important question is: are you actually loosing coolant? If the coolant level does not drop over time, then no leak.....

To sum up:

Mayo on filler cap, but no mayo on dipstick - normal.

Mayo on dipstick, and/or oil in coolant - oil cooler. A bit costly to fix, but not terminal.

No mayo on dipstick, no oil in coolant, but coolant level dropping - leak, most likely HBV, but could be elsewhere. HBV will loose coolant faster when A/C is on.

No coolant level drop, no leak... neither form HBV, head gaskets, or other place.

Head gasket fault as said very rare on Omega V6, in most cases can be verified at MOT station by checking for exhaust gasses in header tank.

HTH.

Elite Pete · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 December 2007, 14:45:33 »

Quote

Yes guys - it was me on Ebay. Sorry for pulling the auction early but on finding this site I had a glimmer of hope in saving the money I have invested in the car. Ebay would'nt let me finish the auction early so I had to do the "sell" the car to the highest bidder senario. I know this is not good Ebay ethics but I was desperate.

You'll prob remember from the Ebay description that I had purchased the car to drive to Spain. I had the Cam Belts done just as a precaution as I do not know when they had last been done. As you know I spent a good bit of money on the car since purchasing it i.e. Belts, Brakes all round, Tyre + 12 months MOT. Just under £500 which I have the receipt for.

I had hoped that maybe it wasn't as bad as first thought after looking through the forum but I just can't be sure and not being a mechanic I don't think I want to risk it driving to Spain.

When the mechanic did the belts he noticed rust around the front of the head - which lead him to suspect the head gaskets were on there way out. I know people have said that is more likely to be the heater bypass valve but that is located at the back of the engine right?

Anyway - if anyone wants to put me out of my misery I would take £500 for the car and cut my loses. I don't know what else to do.

I am interested in purchasing (I was bidding on Fleabay) I have PMd my tel No

jonathanh · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 December 2007, 16:35:43 »

Another thought: did the mechanic replace the belt AND the tensioners or just the belt. If he did the latter then it is not good news. Typically the tensioners fail and take the belt out with them. Vx specify that belt AND tensioner must be replaced at 40k miles.

News:

Author Topic: Head Gasket or Heater Bypass valve??? (Read 1779 times)