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[STEMO]

I don't know how others feel, but I'm completely with the unions on this one. Apart from the safety issues reference closing the doors, I don't think the unions are making enough of passenger safety during the journey. If there is a problem on board, who can be contacted to raise the alarm? Women already feel vulnerable, how will this help?
And, surely, it must be a fare dodgers dream come true.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm aware that some on here dislike/hate the unions.

However, without the historical influence of the unions the working man would probably still be working a 15 hour day for a loaf of stale bread.

Thank you, comrades.

[Entwood]

I don't know how others feel, but I'm completely with the unions on this one. Apart from the safety issues reference closing the doors, I don't think the unions are making enough of passenger safety during the journey. If there is a problem on board, who can be contacted to raise the alarm? Women already feel vulnerable, how will this help?
And, surely, it must be a fare dodgers dream come true.

DLR (Docklands Light Railway) carried 110.2 MILLION** passengers last year without any such problems, so, if they can do it why can't other systems ... simply just unions and "jobs for the boys" .. they couldn't actually give a s*** about passengers who they simply see as a bargaining chip .... IMHO


**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Railway

[STEMO]

Docklands light railway is not the 2200 from Sheffield to Leeds, it is a toy train compared to services that travel between big cities. If the unions are only interested in jobs for the boys, then rail companies are only interested in profits. I wouldn't like my wife to be travelling on a late night train with all the associated creeps that come out at that time of night without a rail official on board.


"Excuse me, I think you're sitting in the seat I booked"
"F**k off, bitch"

You know, that kind of thing.

[STEMO]

I'm aware that some on here dislike/hate the unions.

However, without the historical influence of the unions the working man would probably still be working a 15 hour day for a loaf of stale bread.

Thank you, comrades.

I'm not over fond of the unions, either, but I feel that in times such as these, they are a necessary evil.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I'm aware that some on here dislike/hate the unions.

However, without the historical influence of the unions the working man would probably still be working a 15 hour day for a loaf of stale bread.

Thank you, comrades.

I'm not over fond of the unions, either, but I feel that in times such as these, they are a necessary evil.
[/quote

I think the unions still have a purpose in 2017. As we are likely to have a Tory government for many years or even decades to come I believe the presence of the unions is even more vital.

This doesn't mean I agree with all their methods. Far from it.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Docklands light railway is not the 2200 from Sheffield to Leeds, it is a toy train compared to services that travel between big cities. If the unions are only interested in jobs for the boys, then rail companies are only interested in profits. I wouldn't like my wife to be travelling on a late night train with all the associated creeps that come out at that time of night without a rail official on board.


"Excuse me, I think you're sitting in the seat I booked"
"F**k off, bitch"

You know, that kind of thing.

What pisses me off is that the railways are  private companies........and yet we, the taxpayer, still contribute billions towards their running costs. Why?

Private companies should stand on their own two feet. We were told that the railways would no longer be a drain on the public purse.

[Viral_Jim]

What pisses me off is that the railways are  private companies........and yet we, the taxpayer, still contribute billions towards their running costs. Why?

Private companies should stand on their own two feet. We were told that the railways would no longer be a drain on the public purse.

I can understand this sentiment, but I think that the UK taxpayer contribution needs to be considered in light of what the rail companies have to do. They have to provide a certain number of trains across the entire network, much of which is deperately un-profitable. The 14.25 from Little Dribbling to Upper Drakes Bottom, probably only caries 13 people every week, but the company is required to keep it running under the terms of its agreement. Similarly,  rail companies are required to limit price rises on key lines by a certain percentage each year. Clearly certain commuter lines could be made much more profitable for the rail companies were this restriction not in place.

I'm sure that, given total freedom over what trains to run, how often and what to charge for them, the rail companies could operate very happily with no taxpayer contribution. However its very unlikely we'd be as happy with the service as we are now (happy being a relative term ).

As an aside,  I found this article quite interesting and it debunks a number of preconceptions about how we are billed for railway usage: http://www.citymetric.com/transport/everything-you-know-about-british-train-fares-wrong-704.

Back on topic; I am not a huge fan of Unions, but my view is probably coloured by my years working in London and the rather tube drivers who strike any time the wind changes, but in this case I think they have a point. TBH, of the two people on the train, its the driver we should be focusing on getting rid of. All of the recent large rail disasters that spring to mind (German one last year and the Croydon tram crash) have had an element of human error or recklessness which a properly implemented computer system would have prevented from happening. The human in the back is the one we need to be keeping! This is the approach the DLR uses, where it is actually the driver that has been removed, and a "conductor" is often present during peak periods.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The current proposal is that the doors are closed by the driver and some services may be driver only (which is a system that has operated on the BedPan route for decades), its not a no person on board full stop approach....yet.

The harsh facts are that the 'train manager' is currently advised to steer clear of most on-board disputes anyway.......and many a journey I have taken sees them sat on their arse, hidden away, doing jack.......so some could argue they have made a rod for their own back.

Clearly the door closing bull is a bit of a smoke screen as the modern trains are pretty good at avoiding issues with this.

[tunnie]

What pisses me off is that the railways are  private companies........and yet we, the taxpayer, still contribute billions towards their running costs. Why?

Private companies should stand on their own two feet. We were told that the railways would no longer be a drain on the public purse.

I can understand this sentiment, but I think that the UK taxpayer contribution needs to be considered in light of what the rail companies have to do. They have to provide a certain number of trains across the entire network, much of which is deperately un-profitable. The 14.25 from Little Dribbling to Upper Drakes Bottom, probably only caries 13 people every week, but the company is required to keep it running under the terms of its agreement. Similarly,  rail companies are required to limit price rises on key lines by a certain percentage each year. Clearly certain commuter lines could be made much more profitable for the rail companies were this restriction not in place.

I'm sure that, given total freedom over what trains to run, how often and what to charge for them, the rail companies could operate very happily with no taxpayer contribution. However its very unlikely we'd be as happy with the service as we are now (happy being a relative term ).

As an aside,  I found this article quite interesting and it debunks a number of preconceptions about how we are billed for railway usage: http://www.citymetric.com/transport/everything-you-know-about-british-train-fares-wrong-704.

Back on topic; I am not a huge fan of Unions, but my view is probably coloured by my years working in London and the rather tube drivers who strike any time the wind changes, but in this case I think they have a point. TBH, of the two people on the train, its the driver we should be focusing on getting rid of. All of the recent large rail disasters that spring to mind (German one last year and the Croydon tram crash) have had an element of human error or recklessness which a properly implemented computer system would have prevented from happening. The human in the back is the one we need to be keeping! This is the approach the DLR uses, where it is actually the driver that has been removed, and a "conductor" is often present during peak periods.

Yes this is much more clear. Is the signal green? Then yes go, Red? No Stop, all of this is already fed into the cabs of trains.

I bet TfL can't wait to introduce this across the network, then later onto main line services.

I travelled on Chiltern trains for years, although they only go to 8 carriages, they are driver only. Never had a problem once! Unions have far to much power to cripple the network, I think my view is sack the lot and employ people who want to work might be a bit extreme.   

[Marks DTM Calib]

TBH, of the two people on the train, its the driver we should be focusing on getting rid of. All of the recent large rail disasters that spring to mind (German one last year and the Croydon tram crash) have had an element of human error or recklessness which a properly implemented computer system would have prevented from happening. The human in the back is the one we need to be keeping! This is the approach the DLR uses, where it is actually the driver that has been removed, and a "conductor" is often present during peak periods.

The issue is that its the driver which is chuffing expensive to remove from the equation as it needs a massive signalling, infrastructure and control system upgrade to make it work.

[STEMO]

TBH, of the two people on the train, its the driver we should be focusing on getting rid of. All of the recent large rail disasters that spring to mind (German one last year and the Croydon tram crash) have had an element of human error or recklessness which a properly implemented computer system would have prevented from happening. The human in the back is the one we need to be keeping! This is the approach the DLR uses, where it is actually the driver that has been removed, and a "conductor" is often present during peak periods.

The issue is that its the driver which is chuffing expensive to remove from the equation as it needs a massive signalling, infrastructure and control system upgrade to make it work.

Is 'chuffing expensive' a steam enthusiast's saying? 

[Marks DTM Calib]

TBH, of the two people on the train, its the driver we should be focusing on getting rid of. All of the recent large rail disasters that spring to mind (German one last year and the Croydon tram crash) have had an element of human error or recklessness which a properly implemented computer system would have prevented from happening. The human in the back is the one we need to be keeping! This is the approach the DLR uses, where it is actually the driver that has been removed, and a "conductor" is often present during peak periods.

The issue is that its the driver which is chuffing expensive to remove from the equation as it needs a massive signalling, infrastructure and control system upgrade to make it work.

Is 'chuffing expensive' a steam enthusiast's saying? 

Standard comment from some northern bloke, 'its reet chufin spensive' 

[Doctor Gollum]

They aren't doing away with the conductor role, merely transferring the door control to the driver... Thereby freeing up the conductor to deal with the passengers.

Unfortunately the unions need to be seen to be doing something to justify their subs, so they will try  any and every ploy they can to separate the workforce from the evil management.

Southern staff should be ashamed of themselves for the disruption and misery they inflict on honest, hard working people week in and week out.

Mark my words, unions will carry the Vauxhall name shoulder high through the gates of extinction. Their very notion should be criminalised. Self abusing lady bits to a man

And breathe...

[STEMO]

I think the conductors probably see this as a first step to their demise.
And I didn't realise that conductors were being kept on. Bad reporting somewhere along the line.