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[raywilb]

 i was having a a conversation with a mate of mine that happens to a small car repair shop. we mention when cars reach about 180k on the clock they are considered to be getting towards the end. both of us said we remembered a lot of old vehicles that had clocked 500,000
 mls . the m.ot. put lots in the knackers yard . i owned a pug pickup that had over 380,000. it did chuck out loads of black smoke though.

[STEMO]

i was having a a conversation with a mate of mine that happens to a small car repair shop. we mention when cars reach about 180k on the clock they are considered to be getting towards the end. both of us said we remembered a lot of old vehicles that had clocked 500,000
 mls . the m.ot. put lots in the knackers yard . i owned a pug pickup that had over 380,000. it did chuck out loads of black smoke though.

Most mass produced cars of the 50's and sixties were knackered at 60,000.

[Doctor Gollum]

My second Omega was just over 280k when I sold it, current transport, an '02 Mercedes A160 is almost at 180k... Modernish cars will do proper mileage as long as you want them to... 

Regular servicing is a must

[Viral_Jim]

^^ this.

Cars these days die due to neglect I reckon (disregarding corrosion on certain marques - mid-00's mercs, newer Mazda's etc). People believe cr@p like "sealed for life" and use it as an excuse to neglect correct maintenance.

[BazaJT]

In the late '90s I bought a '84 reg Senator and that going on the paperwork that came with it was nearing 260,000mls when I bought it! People taking the head off earlier cars to do a de-coke was a regular occurrence at one time.

[TheBoy]

The killer for modern cars (mechanical, that is, rather than it being last year's badge) is the extended service intervals.

My old beloved Silver Bullet was over 230k, and the engine was absolutely sound, with the only real mechanical issue being its temperamental gearbox which had had a hard life over the years.

[Keith ABS]

 I sold my manual 12V Carlton GSI with 380,000 miles on it. Was still going strong on origional engine and the head had never been off. Had to replace a gearbox though

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

In the 70,s it was expected that an engine would have the head off for a decoke at around 30,000 miles, if a car had more than 70,000 on the clock you haggled hard on the price because buying it was a gamble, and anything with near 100,000 was scrap value only.
As said, modern cars will go on almost forever if serviced properly and often.
I had the owner of a new BMW listen to the sound (or lack of it) of my Omega engine yesterday, and he couldn't believe it has 182000 on the clock.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

In the 70,s it was expected that an engine would have the head off for a decoke at around 30,000 miles, if a car had more than 70,000 on the clock you haggled hard on the price because buying it was a gamble, and anything with near 100,000 was scrap value only.
As said, modern cars will go on almost forever if serviced properly and often.
I had the owner of a new BMW listen to the sound (or lack of it) of my Omega engine yesterday, and he couldn't believe it has 182000 on the clock.

Yep. Back in the day it was common for cars with only 50,000 miles to be advertised as 'just having had a rebore and a decoke'.

I imagine the manufacturing tolerances are much 'closer' these days, and the oils used are far superior. Castrol GTX was a 20/50 and like treacle when cold.

Car performance for 100,000 plus mile cars seems to be much the same as when new which was not the case if you owned a 70,000 miles Austin 1100.

[Nick W]

Yep. Back in the day it was common for cars with only 50,000 miles to be advertised as 'just having had a rebore and a decoke'.

I imagine the manufacturing tolerances are much 'closer' these days, and the oils used are far superior. Castrol GTX was a 20/50 and like treacle when cold.

Car performance for 100,000 plus mile cars seems to be much the same as when new which was not the case if you owned a 70,000 miles Austin 1100.

the biggest improvement came from full management of the fuelling and ignition. A carbed Pinto shows obvious bore wear at 100k, even though it has an efficient and effective carburetor. I've taken heads off 175k injected Pintos that still had the honing marks in the bores.  And that's from a simple, single coil distributor based system that is both reliable and easy to diagnose if it does fail.


One thing that older vehicles did manage, albeit accidentally, was that the whole car wore out at roughly the same rate: a fifteen year-old rotbox with a tired drive train and worn interior needs no justification to be scrapped. Scrapping a more modern vehicle that could do the same again if it didn't need a clutch that's more than the value of the car(for example) is a poor design and use of resources.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Yep. Back in the day it was common for cars with only 50,000 miles to be advertised as 'just having had a rebore and a decoke'.

I imagine the manufacturing tolerances are much 'closer' these days, and the oils used are far superior. Castrol GTX was a 20/50 and like treacle when cold.

Car performance for 100,000 plus mile cars seems to be much the same as when new which was not the case if you owned a 70,000 miles Austin 1100.

the biggest improvement came from full management of the fuelling and ignition. A carbed Pinto shows obvious bore wear at 100k, even though it has an efficient and effective carburetor. I've taken heads off 175k injected Pintos that still had the honing marks in the bores.  And that's from a simple, single coil distributor based system that is both reliable and easy to diagnose if it does fail.


One thing that older vehicles did manage, albeit accidentally, was that the whole car wore out at roughly the same rate: a fifteen year-old rotbox with a tired drive train and worn interior needs no justification to be scrapped. Scrapping a more modern vehicle that could do the same again if it didn't need a clutch that's more than the value of the car(for example) is a poor design and use of resources.

Modern cars seem to 'stay in tune' far longer than cars of old.

Points would become pitted and close up. The ignition timing would slip and the car go slowly out of tune often without the driver knowing.

Much the same with carbs compared to fuel injection.

Plugs would often be tired by 6000 miles. As far as I'm aware they should be changed every 80,000 miles in the mighty Signum and 100,000 miles in the Indian.

[zirk]

Back in the early 90's I sold my 1.4 Petrol Escort Van that had been all around the UK with 275K on the Clock back to Fords for a strip down.

[ronnyd]

Yep. Back in the day it was common for cars with only 50,000 miles to be advertised as 'just having had a rebore and a decoke'.

I imagine the manufacturing tolerances are much 'closer' these days, and the oils used are far superior. Castrol GTX was a 20/50 and like treacle when cold.

Car performance for 100,000 plus mile cars seems to be much the same as when new which was not the case if you owned a 70,000 miles Austin 1100.

the biggest improvement came from full management of the fuelling and ignition. A carbed Pinto shows obvious bore wear at 100k, even though it has an efficient and effective carburetor. I've taken heads off 175k injected Pintos that still had the honing marks in the bores.  And that's from a simple, single coil distributor based system that is both reliable and easy to diagnose if it does fail.


One thing that older vehicles did manage, albeit accidentally, was that the whole car wore out at roughly the same rate: a fifteen year-old rotbox with a tired drive train and worn interior needs no justification to be scrapped. Scrapping a more modern vehicle that could do the same again if it didn't need a clutch that's more than the value of the car(for example) is a poor design and use of resources.

My old Mk3 Grannie was 200k when it finally  got incurable rust syndrome. Guy who bought it drove home to Derby and transfered the engine into a `1940s retro car. Said the drive back was a pleasure. Was going to try and weld it but just too much to do.

[Shackeng]

The killer for modern cars (mechanical, that is, rather than it being last year's badge) is the extended service intervals.

My old beloved Silver Bullet was over 230k, and the engine was absolutely sound, with the only real mechanical issue being its temperamental gearbox which had had a hard life over the years.

Designed with fleet sales in mind.

[Nick W]

The killer for modern cars (mechanical, that is, rather than it being last year's badge) is the extended service intervals.

My old beloved Silver Bullet was over 230k, and the engine was absolutely sound, with the only real mechanical issue being its temperamental gearbox which had had a hard life over the years.

Designed with fleet sales in mind.

And it's mainly an oil and filter change; there's nothing to adjust on managed fuel and spark, or hydraulic tappets. That only really leaves a timing belt every fourth or fifth service, and how many company cars are kept that long? Even then, I can do the plugs, oil/filters and tappet adjustments on a OHV V6 in about the same time as the plugs, oil and filters on an Omega V6 simply because they're more maintenance friendly.


Things like plugs lasting longer is also largely down to them working in an optimised engine, rather than one that is a least-bad setup.


I've owned some real crap but haven't had to fiddle with carbs and distributors much. That's because I fix the problems rather than try to work around them. The biggest issues I've had have been with multi-carb setups: factory linkages tend to be shockingly bad, the linkage on the twin DCOEs on my Sunbeam was mainly designed to use the stock cable. Binning it for Weber's own linkage and cable, then adjusting it properly meant never having to adjust them again. Didn't jam open either . Unfortunately there isn't such a simple cure for multiple SUs, although on A-series engines replacing them with a single 1 3/4" HIF is a good bet.

[TheBoy]

Even then, I can do the plugs, oil/filters and tappet adjustments on a OHV V6 in about the same time as the plugs, oil and filters on an Omega V6 simply because they're more maintenance friendly.

The only annoyance with the Omega is having to properly jack the think up to do the oil filter, otherwise its all quick and straightforward to do oil, air filter, pollen filter, fuel filter (another jack up), plugs and so on.  Even if some idiot has put a load of LPG gubbins in the way . Old skool mechanics seem to struggle with it for some reason.

Non standard service tasks on it can be a pain, though.  Alternators, starters etc are a bloody faff IMHO.


As to "servicing" a car with full engine management, part of that is looking at live data to check the system is healthy, and not having to compensate for wearing/failing items.  But nobody does. Again, because garages/dealers are mostly incompetent and don't understand the systems used.

[TheBoy]

Oh, the other annoyance with the earlier V6's, fortunately resolved halfway through the MFL era, is the bloody spin on oil filter that creates mess and takes a lot of cleaning up.

I'd forgotten about that, as I've not had to do one for a couple of years, as TBE obviously has the later cartridge type oil filter.

[Nick W]

The only annoyance with the Omega is having to properly jack the think up to do the oil filter, otherwise its all quick and straightforward to do oil, air filter, pollen filter, fuel filter (another jack up), plugs and so on.  Even if some idiot has put a load of LPG gubbins in the way . Old skool mechanics seem to struggle with it for some reason.

Non standard service tasks on it can be a pain, though.  Alternators, starters etc are a bloody faff IMHO.

My gripe, as you well know, is with the oppswit who ran the engine wiring above the passenger side plugs. Moving and refitting that is what takes the time. Changing the rear plug for the first time is a worry too.
A spin on oil filter is replaceable without jacking the car..... Just, admittedly   Although an old school mechanic will be jacking the car to visually inspect the suspension, wiring, plumbing, brakes etc for wear, leaks damage etc so the point is moot

I agree with you on the data, and do just that.

[TheBoy]

My gripe, as you well know, is with the oppswit who ran the engine wiring above the passenger side plugs. Moving and refitting that is what takes the time. Changing the rear plug for the first time is a worry too.

The first time I did it, it took me time, as I was looking for a way to get it out of the way.  Once I was told to remove the wiring from the tray to do it, its a breeze, adds about a minute to the job...   ...although TBE doesn't have one currently - it was left off whilst diagnosing a HT/LPG issues when the garage went, and it was never found.  So now its even easier