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Author Topic: westfield q's  (Read 2491 times)

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05omegav6

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westfield q's
« on: 17 January 2012, 01:16:24 »

Evening all, brother and I are trying to decide between a weekend boat and a weekend car. In a flash of inspiration, a Westfield kit sprang to mind, Bro was thinking along the lines of an Astra GSi turbo ::).

A couple of questions:

1: Are the kits complete, ie just need engine/box/bits and bobs?
2: Can you use any donor, or does it have to be a Sierra?
3: Realistically, how long do they take to build?
4: What are the hidden costs?

I know Kevin Wood has working experience of these, any pointers appreciated :y

TIA Al. :y
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #1 on: 17 January 2012, 07:44:06 »

Mr Wood is the man on this one :)

I'm sure he will be a long soon :y
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #2 on: 17 January 2012, 08:05:23 »

Kits are far from complete unless you buy a finsihed car.

For me, if considering a seven type kit, I would not be going down the Westfield route as its not exactly a product that has been improved or developed.

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Kevin Wood

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #3 on: 17 January 2012, 15:02:51 »

I'm not sure I'd go for one currently, but not for the same reasons. :-\

1) They will sell you essentially "a car in a box" i.e. all the bits you need to build one down to the last nut and bolt, but for about a grand or two less than a new factory built one that's IVA'd, registered, debugged to a great enough extent that it will at least drive, and on the road, as far as I can recall, so that's a mug's game, IMHO.

You can buy a modular kit where you get most of the bits required in a number of stages to spread the cost. You always used to be able to do a Q plated modular kit where you could supply the mechanical bits from a donor instead of new.

You can buy a starter kit which is basically just chassis, bodywork and the other Westfield specific bits, leaving you to make your own choices about all the other stuff.

2) The traditional SEI kit was based on no single donor. Sierra bits at the back to support an IRS setup and Cortina at the front because the McPherson strut upright on the Sierra is both pig ugly and unduly heavy when botched into a double wishbone arrangement. Power train is again a mixed bag due to no RWD Fords ever getting a decent enough engine(IMHO).

They do a Sierra "single donor vehicle" kit that contains said botch. Can't really see the point as you won't want to be using the engine out of a Sierra (unless it's a cossie).

They also do a Mazda MX 5 based SDV kit which is much better based on the quick run around I've had in one. At least the Mazda running gear is reasonably light and you'll end up with a decent car at the end. Upgrade options from then on might be limited, although there are tuning options for the Mazda engines.

Unless you specifically want to base it on a single donor it's probably best not to, in many respects. Reasons for building a single donor kit would be to avoid a Q plate (without declaring it new) and .. well, that's about it really.

3) Mine took a year at quite a leisurely rate but it depends what route you take. "Car in a box" would take a couple of weeks whereas stripping a single donor, refurbishing parts to a decent standard and then building would clearly take much longer.

4) Again, depends what route you take. There will be plenty, though. ;)

With a kit car there is every option available from a labour of love starting with some lengths of square section tube and a welder, and hopefully ending with a car, to slapping down £20k+ and having it on the road in time for spring, and anything in-between. I guess mine was in the middle. I think the first thing you need to decide is where you want to be on that scale.

They can be very much better value 2nd hand, so have a think about how much you really want to build it yourself, as opposed to buy on 2nd hand and tweak / upgrade.
« Last Edit: 17 January 2012, 15:05:02 by Kevin Wood »
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r1

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #4 on: 17 January 2012, 18:53:21 »

would have thought that a zetec with the correct box would be the way forward.

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Webby the Bear

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #5 on: 17 January 2012, 19:01:14 »

No idea on what your budget is but there's only one kit car you can have... a GT4O replica!!!  :y
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #6 on: 17 January 2012, 19:19:34 »

Don't Westfields have faulty steering? They insist you drive into grass banks ;D.   When you are not reversing up dual carriageways that is.

Isn' that right, Mr Wood :P.  What state is yours in currently?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #7 on: 17 January 2012, 22:41:33 »

Don't Westfields have faulty steering? They insist you drive into grass banks ;D.   When you are not reversing up dual carriageways that is.

Isn' that right, Mr Wood :P.  What state is yours in currently?

Awaiting parts. The correct parts, hence my reservation. ::)

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y
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Webby the Bear

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #8 on: 17 January 2012, 22:57:44 »

Don't Westfields have faulty steering? They insist you drive into grass banks ;D.   When you are not reversing up dual carriageways that is.

Isn' that right, Mr Wood :P.  What state is yours in currently?

Awaiting parts. The correct parts, hence my reservation. ::)

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y

What life is all about I do declare  :y :y :y :y :y

I met a guy last weekend who is in to Monster Trucks. Personally never been remotely interested, but after talking to him find myself looking them up and spending time watching vids on the Tube  :y :y :y
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05omegav6

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #9 on: 18 January 2012, 18:31:38 »

Thanks for the input :y

Quote
2) The traditional SEI kit was based on no single donor. Sierra bits at the back to support an IRS setup and Cortina at the front because the McPherson strut upright on the Sierra is both pig ugly and unduly heavy when botched into a double wishbone arrangement. Power train is again a mixed bag due to no RWD Fords ever getting a decent enough engine(IMHO).


The suspension side of things makes sense, though I notice that you can buy various suspension components from Westfield, including the front uprights/hubs. Would a Cologne V6 fit? Thinking the 24v lump as that bolts straight onto the Type 9 'box and the Granada Cosworths had an LSD as standard iirc :-\. Alternatively a 2.8 with better carbs than the Solex one, (there used to be a Webber twin upgrade kit for these) :-\.

Having said that, there is a supercharger kit for the MX5 engine... 8) (if it fits of course), and me being a bit portly, lightness might be best... :P

Quote
Reasons for building a single donor kit would be to avoid a Q plate (without declaring it new) and .. well, that's about it really.

What is the thinking here? Is it on one hand " I've just reshelled my MX5/Sierra" and on the other " I've just built a new car" with all that that implies... :-\

I personally would prefer to go down the BIY route rather than a factory fresh one, purely for the satisfaction of doing it.

Plenty of food for thought here, space will be the single biggest constraint I think. :-\

Don't Westfields have faulty steering? They insist you drive into grass banks ;D.   When you are not reversing up dual carriageways that is.

Isn' that right, Mr Wood :P.  What state is yours in currently?

Awaiting parts. The correct parts, hence my reservation. ::)

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y

which is precisely what makes such things worthwhile IMHO :y
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aaronjb

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #10 on: 18 January 2012, 18:56:37 »

If you enjoy spanner wielding and think you'll get as much enjoyment out of the build as you will the drive, then build yourself. If not, buy one. At least that's the conclusion I came to (and I'm building a car - well, when the chassis arrives)

Forget the Cologne V6 - from memory it's enormously heavy? And if you're thinking V6/V8 then perhaps the Dax Rush might be a better idea - I believe it's got a much more generous engine bay (and a new BMW based version is almost ready).. plenty of folks throw Rover V8s and others into the Rush, not to mention turbocharged bike engines..

Though the kit probably isn't quite as 'plug 'n play' as the Westie!
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05omegav6

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #11 on: 18 January 2012, 19:29:37 »

Quote
Forget the Cologne V6 - from memory it's enormously heavy?

Thought that might be the case, they are cast iron after all ::). Only had that engine in 6 of the seven Granadas that I've owned, so kind of biased towards it ::). There are plenty of newer alloy four pots around that would be suitable, so not the end of the world :y

Had a brief look at the Dax, for that sort of car, I'd probably get a Monaro :y.
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aaronjb

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #12 on: 18 January 2012, 20:47:04 »

There's a big difference between a Monaro and a Rush though - one has four seats and a roof, for a start :) Then again, at the other end of the engine spectrum, Duncan's turbo Hayabusa powered Rush is insanely fast (second or third fastest of anything around the TG track, I think?).

Though a Westie is inarguably more 'right' than a Rush in that it's much more 'period'. I'd happily own either if I could fit in one ;D
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05omegav6

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #13 on: 18 January 2012, 20:53:01 »

There's a big difference between a Monaro and a Rush though - one has four seats and a roof, for a start :) Then again, at the other end of the engine spectrum, Duncan's turbo Hayabusa powered Rush is insanely fast (second or third fastest of anything around the TG track, I think?).

Though a Westie is inarguably more 'right' than a Rush in that it's much more 'period'. I'd happily own either if I could fit in one ;D
I think I need to get the tape measure out, given that I'm a mere 16.5 stone and 6'2" :-\
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aaronjb

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #14 on: 18 January 2012, 21:00:51 »

Ah you'll fit fine most likely.. height isn't an issue in the Westy from what I know, it's erm 'girth' that's the issue. And I seem to be tipping the scales north of 28st at the moment :-/ At 16.5st you'll probably be just fine.

I think the Dax is wider than the Westfield - I don't know if Westfield do a 'widebody' version like Caterham, though.
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05omegav6

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #15 on: 18 January 2012, 21:14:57 »

Ah you'll fit fine most likely.. height isn't an issue in the Westy from what I know, it's erm 'girth' that's the issue. And I seem to be tipping the scales north of 28st at the moment :-/ At 16.5st you'll probably be just fine.

I think the Dax is wider than the Westfield - I don't know if Westfield do a 'widebody' version like Caterham, though.

I think they do :y.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #16 on: 19 January 2012, 00:25:32 »

Ah you'll fit fine most likely.. height isn't an issue in the Westy from what I know, it's erm 'girth' that's the issue. And I seem to be tipping the scales north of 28st at the moment :-/ At 16.5st you'll probably be just fine.

I think the Dax is wider than the Westfield - I don't know if Westfield do a 'widebody' version like Caterham, though.

I think they do :y.

I think Westfield only do the wide version now. About the same size as the Caterham SV at a guess. Dax Rush is wider still, especially at the back. Something it pays to bear in mind when driving one IME.

A Dax might well be suitable for bigger engines as the engine bay is larger. It is also more steeply tapered towards the front so things could still be tight depending how far forward the engine sits. I don't find them as nimble but probably not as prone to be over-engined if you want big power.

X30XE fits in a Westfield nicely and is a whole world better than a Cologne and lighter to boot. Ditto the Ford Duratec V6. I think I'd have to live with one for a while before deciding I prefer it to a tuned 4 pot though. :-\

One thing to bear in mind is that you will be giving yourself a whole load of headaches if you go for an unconventional engine option, and along the way you'll probably discover why it's not a popular option. ;)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #17 on: 19 January 2012, 10:01:13 »

What is the thinking here? Is it on one hand " I've just reshelled my MX5/Sierra" and on the other " I've just built a new car" with all that that implies... :-\

Not really such a clear-cut difference. You are building a car around a different chassis in both cases so effectively it's the same thing and both should end up registered afresh as a Westfield. When it comes to registration of the car, though, there are 3 possibilities:

1) You build a car with all new parts, and can prove their "newness". You'll get a new age-related plate just like any other new car.

2) You build a car using parts substantially from a single donor, and have the documents for the donor to prove it. You'll get an age-related plate of the year of the donor vehicle (sometimes they'll even let you take the donor's reg. no.).

3) You build a car using a mixed bag of new and used parts of various ages, or can't prove the age of all parts. You get a Q plate.

There are advantages with a Q plate in some respects in that you can get away with more than an age related vehicle at MOT. You can't transfer the number plate if you want a cherished plate, etc. though, and there is a little snobbery against them among some.

Also worth bearing in mind that the emissions testing criteria are based on the engine age so to avoid having to have a cat you need a pre-august 1995 engine with proof of age from memory.

That puts you into the MX5/Zetec/C20XE/Rover V8 territory. Maybe an early X30XE?

Of course, if you fuel inject it, having to have a cat is not a massive problem, but if fitting carbs it is. Also, there's no reason why you can't fit a newer engine once it's registered so you don't necessarily need a mint pre-95 engine. Just one that runs. ;)

Quote
I personally would prefer to go down the BIY route rather than a factory fresh one, purely for the satisfaction of doing it.

Fair enough. That was my take, too. ;)

Quote
Plenty of food for thought here, space will be the single biggest constraint I think. :-\

I built mine in a single garage with no problems at all They are small, especially before the bodywork, wheels and tyres are fitted.

I would try to see a few in the flesh, as that will give you a clearer view of the path that's right for you. Hoping mine will be back on the road soonish in which case it'll be along to a few meets. Failing that there are plenty of clubs who probably meet locally to you. Westfield Sports Car Club in particular springs to mind. http://www.wscc.co.uk/local.htm. I know there's a regular meet at Forest Green. Probably a few in Sussex too. Go along, kick some tyres, talk some bolax and blag a few rides... ;)
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #18 on: 19 January 2012, 18:07:22 »

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y
And nothing more can beat that. It makes all the not-so-good days worthwhile.

I had some really down days with Project TB2/Tractor, but overall, my experience was nothing short of wonderful.
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Grumpy old man

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #19 on: 19 January 2012, 18:36:56 »

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y
And nothing more can beat that. It makes all the not-so-good days worthwhile.

I had some really down days with Project TB2/Tractor, but overall, my experience was nothing short of wonderful.

Does that include a taste of my ham sandwiches? ;)
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #20 on: 19 January 2012, 18:42:01 »

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y
And nothing more can beat that. It makes all the not-so-good days worthwhile.

I had some really down days with Project TB2/Tractor, but overall, my experience was nothing short of wonderful.

Does that include a taste of my ham sandwiches? ;)
Ah, yes, day one of Project TB2 :y

And it was cheese and ham ;)
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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #21 on: 19 January 2012, 18:44:16 »

I will say, having put a negative spin on it, on second reading, that building and owning it has been a great experience and, much like Omega ownership, has made me many new friends and given me a lot of fun wielding both the spanner, the steering wheel, and the pint glass. :y
And nothing more can beat that. It makes all the not-so-good days worthwhile.

I had some really down days with Project TB2/Tractor, but overall, my experience was nothing short of wonderful.

Does that include a taste of my ham sandwiches? ;)
Ah, yes, day one of Project TB2 :y

And it was cheese and ham ;)

I beg to differ :P
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05omegav6

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Re: westfield q's
« Reply #22 on: 20 January 2012, 00:15:33 »

Thanks for that :y Plenty to think on... :y
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