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[EMD]

Can anyone recommend somewhere that will supply steel offcuts , just need some to start my welding practising . Box section offcuts ect  Prices on egay are for new steel lengths and extortionate just for a 6ft length   

[EMD]

No worries , i found a stock pile of box section locally 

[EMD]

Well i have an omega rear door to practice my welds on ,
going to angle grind some squares out of door an see if i can weld
them back in seamlessly 

[Webby the Bear]

I don't know how much welding you've done Steve but trying in a car door (exactly as I did) is a bad idea. It's too thin. And I struggle on thin stuff even now.

Go to J E Matthews in Northampton and spend £20 and they'll give you a big bag of steel to practise on. Assuming this is MIG then start with 3mm

 

[EMD]

I don't know how much welding you've done Steve but trying in a car door (exactly as I did) is a bad idea. It's too thin. And I struggle on thin stuff even now.

Go to J E Matthews in Northampton and spend £20 and they'll give you a big bag of steel to practise on. Assuming this is MIG then start with 3mm

 

None 

Got to pick up some box section in the week for practising on too . Its arc , you should have been able to weld the door with mig surely  I know arc's not really for bodywork but it is possible with correct settings and rods , i bought it for making stuff out of box section mainly and thicker steel 

[Webby the Bear]

I don't know how much welding you've done Steve but trying in a car door (exactly as I did) is a bad idea. It's too thin. And I struggle on thin stuff even now.

Go to J E Matthews in Northampton and spend £20 and they'll give you a big bag of steel to practise on. Assuming this is MIG then start with 3mm

 

None 

Got to pick up some box section in the week for practising on too . Its arc , you should have been able to weld the door with mig surely  I know arc's not really for bodywork but it is possible with correct settings and rods , i bought it for making stuff out of box section mainly and thicker steel 

Erm, no! Lol  the problem is that there's so many people on all sorts of forums (referring to welding forums, not OOF before someone throws their toys out) who make out they're billy big shit and say stuff like 'you'll pick up MIG and be welding like a pro in 30 minutes'. Well I can tell ya, perhaps there are people like that but after 6 months of welding most days I was just getting to grips with it.

Even now I still can't weld thin car body stuff (the stuff is about 0.6mm). I welded some parts of a Nissan micra and it looked shit.

As for doing arc/stick welding on car bodywork . . . I've never seen it done. Usually that's reserved fir the thick stuff or so I thought. Though perhaps it's possible? No idea.

Post up the pics of your attempts mate and hopefully they'll look better than my chicken shit attempts when I first started! 

Ps I still weld but lately it's only been bearing races (weld them up and knock them out with a hammer) that's good fun dos you can turn the settings to max and put loooooads of heat through it

[deviator]

A lot of it is down to the teacher, the setup of the welder, the materials and the preparation.

My first (& only to date) weld was a repair on the end of a chassis leg of a MX5. I am talking about 3 x 4 inch piece of plate. With the right setup and teaching, I went from crap to acceptable in that one repair piece. Granted, if I picked up a torch now, I'd be making the same mistakes I did then, wrong angle, not tack then filling etc; Thick stuff is always easier to weld, 3/4mm wall will pretty much allow you to keep a constant weld in one. You need to look at all the different types of weld as well. By that I mean plug, seam are two examples I am aware of.

[Webby the Bear]

Yep exactly that. I'm clearly just a slow learner 

You got butt welds, flat, horizontal, overhead etc. so many different things and the thing about it is even if you do get a quality weld. . . You still might not have the penetration which is key especially if welding something critical. I personally would never weld anything critical (I.e. Jack stands as I'm know I'm not that good lol

[EMD]

Only critical thing ill be welding is a shoe rack for now 

Ive studied the online vids and seems you can weld anything with any welder given experience  Think im right in saying if you can stick weld then mig weld is easier ... im use to seeing how its done when years ago my mk5 cortina was welded up most weeks from a mechanic friend 

[deviator]

The FiL is currently welding the garage door frame for me. He's a retired mechanic/body repairer and welder (peace work). I hope to learn a lot from him, because he has been there and done that. Currently the garage door frame is being built out of 2x4 inch 3mm wall box section in a H around the door. With a frame above the door to taken 8x4ft sheets and other security measures to make sure the door is as good as I, sorry he can make it.

I get the off cuts 

[YZ250]

Well i have an omega rear door to practice my welds on ,
going to angle grind some squares out of door an see if i can weld
them back in seamlessly 

If you are learning to weld, in any shape or form, use clean unpainted metal with a good clean earth point, otherwise it will frustrate the hell out of you when you get bad results.
It's all about controlling the pooling, regardless of what weld method you are using. Arc is better suited to angle iron/box section (cleaned off in area of weld). Only thing to control with Arc is the heat setting so relatively straight-forward, but when you are new to it the rod is long and awkward, your hand will shake and you will have the desire to waggle the stick all over the place.  Get the heat right for the material thickness , a steady hand, a good clean clamping point, a crisp constant crackle and you will be sorted.  After twenty odd years of welding on a daily basis (doing a different job now), if it doesn't sound right, it ain't welding right. 
Dirty metal can make a good welder look poor, but then again a good welder would know this.

Good luck, you'll get there eventually. 

[EMD]

Well i have an omega rear door to practice my welds on ,
going to angle grind some squares out of door an see if i can weld
them back in seamlessly 

If you are learning to weld, in any shape or form, use clean unpainted metal with a good clean earth point, otherwise it will frustrate the hell out of you when you get bad results.
It's all about controlling the pooling, regardless of what weld method you are using. Arc is better suited to angle iron/box section (cleaned off in area of weld). Only thing to control with Arc is the heat setting so relatively straight-forward, but when you are new to it the rod is long and awkward, your hand will shake and you will have the desire to waggle the stick all over the place.  Get the heat right for the material thickness , a steady hand, a good clean clamping point, a crisp constant crackle and you will be sorted.  After twenty odd years of welding on a daily basis (doing a different job now), if it doesn't sound right, it ain't welding right. 
Dirty metal can make a good welder look poor, but then again a good welder would know this.

Good luck, you'll get there eventually. 

Thats what i did take note of mate  Crackle , thats a good tip too .


Webbythewelder

Post up the pics of your attempts mate and hopefully they'll look better than my chicken shit attempts when I first started! 

Yes i mite even make a metal bear 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Arc is quite a different technique to MIG, far more to fiddle with on the MIG 

[EMD]

Arc is quite a different technique to MIG, far more to fiddle with on the MIG 

Will do a bit of stick testing on Wednesday . There's a mig welder going for 99p  but its been stored a few years so wonder if its any good  More stuff to go wrong on a mig welder , feed wheel , wire lead , tips and shrouds , flux core , gas gasless ... think i remember webby saying the little gas bottles dont last long so maybe go for flux core gasless mig which i think this one is

[Marks DTM Calib]

No point in going for a flux cored one, you might as well use stick!

[Webby the Bear]

The hobby bottles lasted long enough for my purposes. Some one on 'ere recommended bottles that had twice the usual capacity and these worked fine for me 

[EMD]

No point in going for a flux cored one, you might as well use stick!

Yeah think im jumping the gun a bit as it was tempting price  Guess ill burn through the omega door with stick but ill have a go with it set on low . I only want to test the beads , starting an arc and circles ect .

The hobby bottles lasted long enough for my purposes. Some one on 'ere recommended bottles that had twice the usual capacity and these worked fine for me 

Will have to see how i get on with this stick weld . A possible weld party in the future , mite call into that place you said for the box of metal .. near the Carlsburg place 

[Andy B]

....

Yeah think im jumping the gun a bit as it was tempting price  Guess ill burn through the omega door with stick but ill have a go with it set on low . I only want to test the beads , starting an arc and circles ect . ....

On a car door you'll be burning through a nano second after you've struck the arc ...... there won't be time to see a circle or pool of weld   

[EMD]

....

Yeah think im jumping the gun a bit as it was tempting price  Guess ill burn through the omega door with stick but ill have a go with it set on low . I only want to test the beads , starting an arc and circles ect . ....

On a car door you'll be burning through a nano second after you've struck the arc ...... there won't be time to see a circle or pool of weld   

Fair e nuff  I thought Omega door skins were like a tanks 

[Marks DTM Calib]

There about 1mm or maybe slightly more, certainly thicker than many!

If you want a challenge, do some welding on a transit or a French car....

[EMD]

There about 1mm or maybe slightly more, certainly thicker than many!

If you want a challenge, do some welding on a transit or a French car....

 Can you weld cheese  .. 

[TheBoy]

Clean metal is much easier. I've been making some shelving units to sit above my desk, and new metal is a joy to weld

[TheBoy]

I still badly struggle with "old/used" metal, even when cleaned, not sure why.

[YZ250]

I still badly struggle with "old/used" metal, even when cleaned, not sure why.

The clamping point will never carry the connection as cleanly through dirty metal, even when cleaned off. A classic example is when you strike up your mig welder and the wire curls away from the steel before it starts welding. 

[EMD]

First go at stick welding today , got the hang of it pretty quick and also noted that a steady hand is required  First bit was to weld two flat pieces of tube steel end to end together , tacked it all around then welded it up  Need more clamps 
Then i welded an extension bar on to my old car ramps , turned out not bad 
Happy with the first time experience and cant wait to master it , think im going a wee bit to fast on the weld as its leaving a few holes but will get better as i go on 

Got a burn hole in my jeans 

[EMD]

Am going to put Flashdance on the record player now and dance around in joy 

[tidla]

What do these poxy hobbie bottles cost these days?

What size are they?

[deviator]

First go at stick welding today , got the hang of it pretty quick and also noted that a steady hand is required  First bit was to weld two flat pieces of tube steel end to end together , tacked it all around then welded it up  Need more clamps 
Then i welded an extension bar on to my old car ramps , turned out not bad 
Happy with the first time experience and cant wait to master it , think im going a wee bit to fast on the weld as its leaving a few holes but will get better as i go on 

Got a burn hole in my jeans 

I did some unsupervised welding too. It was was manly, grinding, punching, drilling, countersinking, grinding, welding.

What do these poxy hobbie bottles cost these days?

What size are they?

I always thought they were an expensive option. A pub sized bottle of welding gas (DON'T USE PUB C02, it contains food additives that make your weld spatter) are 20 quid filled near me, I can't remember the prices for argon-shield, I haven't got that far yet. A regulator to take both types (pub and cone fit) of bottle is 20-30 on eBay. Job done.

[TheBoy]

What do these poxy hobbie bottles cost these days?

What size are they?

If starting from scratch, you're probably looking at £150 by time you have paid deposit on bottle and bought regulator and adapter. Rent free though

Can't remember what refills are, £35 for argon?

[EMD]

Is it normal practice to grind welds to tidy them up or should the weld be left as it is then painted  Obviously my welds look a bit crap at the minute  but with a flick of the angle grinder they look better 

[Vamps]

Is it normal practice to grind welds to tidy them up or should the weld be left as it is then painted  Obviously my welds look a bit crap at the minute  but with a flick of the angle grinder they look better 

I would say yes, but only if the weld is good enough to be cleaned up using a grinder, you wouldn't want to be grinding away all the weld...........

[05omegav6]

Dressing with an abrasive disc of some description would be prudent, but if the panels being joined were prepped and welded with some forthought, then the surface finishing should be minimal

[EMD]

Ah yes , dressing is what i did but a bit too much 
As the saying goes 'things can only get better' .. more practice ect .
Need to build up the welds more and set the amps lower , stick is sticking on strikes
a bit too much then burning through although its only 3mm tube .

[deviator]

What do these poxy hobbie bottles cost these days?

What size are they?

If starting from scratch, you're probably looking at £150 by time you have paid deposit on bottle and bought regulator and adapter. Rent free though

Can't remember what refills are, £35 for argon?

150 for the gas? Ouch. That is major money, I presume that is argon?

[05omegav6]

Nope, +150 for the bottle and a fill of gas

[deviator]

No way, I'm trying to remember what they charged me last time I bought some, I think Co2 was 20+vat for a refill. I seem to remember argon was 50-60 deposit and 30-40 per refill. I suppose by the time you've whacker a regulator on it, it'll be getting up that way.

[05omegav6]

I think that was Tbs point

[Webby the Bear]

Definitely grind the welds down if they look shite like mine.  Though don't go too far as you'll remove the weld.  You could weld a bit.  Grind a bit.  Weld a bit.  Grind a bit.  I do this cos my welds are shite lol

[deviator]

Sorry about being late to the party........

Co2 pub bottle refill (welding gas NOT pub Co2) was 20 quid
Argon/Co2 mix was 50 quid deposit for the bottle and 45 quid for the fill, so 95 quid for a bottle slightly bigger than pub Co2 bottle.

They asked if it was garage or mobile, I said mobile (IE can move bottle!) as they had workshop bottles about 2-3 times the size of the little bottles at 70 for the fill (I didn't ask about deposit on those, sorry).

These aren't guesses, these are the prices I paid the other week at the gas place at the end of my road. If you are local to me, I can recommend them!

*** Please note the argon bottles use a different sized thread to the Co2 bottles. So budget for adaptor or a new reg with both types of fittings. My place sells regs, but eBay is better on prices ****

[EMD]

The gas shielded welds are so much more cleaner and stronger , will be looking into buying a gas mig in the future . Plus mig wire looks cheap enough and more economical , plus more handy for welding thinner gauge 

[deviator]

The gas shielded welds are so much more cleaner and stronger , will be looking into buying a gas mig in the future . Plus mig wire looks cheap enough and more economical , plus more handy for welding thinner gauge 

I'm still very much learning. As such, I had the FiL's Co2 bottles off him, he has gone over to Argon. I want to learn in the worst case scenario and then improve from there.

[Webby the Bear]

Photos please. Come on, I was brave enough to show my crap welds 

[EMD]

I only used about 8 arc rods to finish the welding cart , but it was intricate work you see  Really need a mig welder for thinner stuff like body panel thin plate steel which i have a small pile of 

How much you want for that mig you dont use anymore mr webb 

[deviator]

Photos please. Come on, I was brave enough to show my crap welds 

Go on then, you can laugh at my efforts......

















This was on my own unsupervised. Hence why when I was working with the old thin metal, it kept going wrong and I had to turn the welder down. Please note none of these welds are staying, they are a temp install until the garage is extended.

[Sir Tigger KC]

How much you want for that mig you dont use anymore mr webb 

Er.. 99p?                                                                                                                                           

[minifreek]

You can weld bodywork with a ARC welder I did it to my Vectra when i welded a bonnet extension onto the bonnet and also to the Omega's rear arches when I replaced them a couple of months ago...

I have both ARC and MIG welders, I prefer the MIG as it is a lot easier to use than the ARC, especially on thinner stuff. I'll be welding up a baseplate soon for an antenna tower I have so it will need to be welded using the ARC as its thicker steel and will need to be a strong weld.... It will be made from 3-5mm wall box section and 3-5mm plate steel... depends on what I can get hold of at the time of purchase...

I wouldn't say I can weld but can join 2 pieces of metal together using the welding process.... The welds may not be neat but are strong, I tested them....

[Marks DTM Calib]

MIG actually produces a stronger weld than ARC........if done well. 

[STEMO]

Welding for making stuff is fine. Any car that requires welding should be scrapped.

[EMD]

Welding for making stuff is fine. Any car that requires welding should be scrapped.

My Mk5 Cortina was held together with welds for years 

You can weld bodywork with a ARC welder I did it to my Vectra when i welded a bonnet extension onto the bonnet and also to the Omega's rear arches when I replaced them a couple of months ago...

I have both ARC and MIG welders, I prefer the MIG as it is a lot easier to use than the ARC, especially on thinner stuff. I'll be welding up a baseplate soon for an antenna tower I have so it will need to be welded using the ARC as its thicker steel and will need to be a strong weld.... It will be made from 3-5mm wall box section and 3-5mm plate steel... depends on what I can get hold of at the time of purchase...

I wouldn't say I can weld but can join 2 pieces of metal together using the welding process.... The welds may not be neat but are strong, I tested them....

I can see that its possible to arc weld body panels if your careful . Its the heat transfer you got to watch though