Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: 05omegav6 on 09 December 2013, 02:57:04
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I might have found a cost effective way to upgrade the brakes... compared to my original thoughts.
Each time the front brakes are upgraded, the rears are effectively upgraded for free
Stage 1:
Monaro VXR front calipers with 330x28 discs.
Omega front calipers to the rear.
Stage 2:
Monaro AP calipers with 362x32 discs.
Monaro VXR front calipers with 330x28 discs to the rear.
This halves the cost, as both the front and rear mounting bells for the 330x28 discs can be produced simultaneously, and it only requires two pairs of discs rather than four pairs.
The only other adjustment needed is modification to the rear brake pipes due to the switch from fixed calipers to sliding.
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Do you have a secret desire to put yourself through the windscreen/crush your ribs witha seatbelt?
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Do you have a secret desire to put yourself through the windscreen/crush your ribs witha seatbelt?
This is partly in connection with the mv8 project. Obviously upgrading the brakes is a no brainer. Esta. (Oh sigh...)
And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
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Do you have a secret desire to put yourself through the windscreen/crush your ribs witha seatbelt?
This is partly in connection with the mv8 project. Obviously upgrading the brakes is a no brainer. Esta. (Oh sigh...)
And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
I see. It should have been added to the mv8 thread then. Got any pictures for me to look at? Doesn't have to be about cars, anything I can colour in will do. ;D
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Do you have a secret desire to put yourself through the windscreen/crush your ribs witha seatbelt?
This is partly in connection with the mv8 project. Obviously upgrading the brakes is a no brainer. Esta. (Oh sigh...)
And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
I see. It should have been added to the mv8 thread then. Got any pictures for me to look at? Doesn't have to be about cars, anything I can colour in will do. ;D
No its Als thread and for his car, ya nosey parker. He's kindly posted for others, including me, to look at.
Now go play with your crayons, ya nump! ;D
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I might have found a cost effective way to upgrade the brakes... compared to my original thoughts.
Each time the front brakes are upgraded, the rears are effectively upgraded for free
Stage 1:
Monaro VXR front calipers with 330x28 discs.
Omega front calipers to the rear.
Stage 2:
Monaro AP calipers with 362x32 discs.
Monaro VXR front calipers with 330x28 discs to the rear.
This halves the cost, as both the front and rear mounting bells for the 330x28 discs can be produced simultaneously, and it only requires two pairs of discs rather than four pairs.
The only other adjustment needed is modification to the rear brake pipes due to the switch from fixed calipers to sliding.
Have you been able to confirm the front callipers fit on the rear Al? We know the bolt pattern is the same, but is the rear disk offset the same as the front?
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Currently a speculative hunch...
Need to get the 330 discs sorted first ::)
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Do you have a secret desire to put yourself through the windscreen/crush your ribs witha seatbelt?
This is partly in connection with the mv8 project. Obviously upgrading the brakes is a no brainer. Esta. (Oh sigh...)
And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
I see. It should have been added to the mv8 thread then. Got any pictures for me to look at? Doesn't have to be about cars, anything I can colour in will do. ;D
As requested :y over in Gen Dis...
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And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
Bit unfair, they are pretty good for "normal" road use, even if pressing on. Good for about 10-12 80mph-0mph stops in quick succession, but as speeds go above that, they fade badly after 3-4 big stops in quick succession.
So shit, no. But unsuitable for sustained battering, or track.
(for the benefit of other OOFers reading this thread, rather than Mr Gixer, who we know is very hard on brakes)
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And partly in relation to the fact that the oe brakes are shit.
Bit unfair, they are pretty good for "normal" road use, even if pressing on. Good for about 10-12 80mph-0mph stops in quick succession, but as speeds go above that, they fade badly after 3-4 big stops in quick succession.
So shit, no. But unsuitable for sustained battering, or track.
(for the benefit of other OOFers reading this thread, rather than Mr Gixer, who we know is very hard on brakes)
Says the man who posted the pictures of the cremated pads :-X :-X ;D
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Prepare to hear something stunning, something which may not have be considered here ever before, in the history of chav-me Omega owners :o
Read the road and brake/ease off throttle earlier ::)
There is an old saying, a bad workman always blames his tools ::) ;D ;D
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Prepare to hear something stunning, something which may not have be considered here ever before, in the history of chav-me Omega owners :o
Read the road and brake/ease off throttle earlier ::)
There is an old saying, a bad workman always blames his tools ::) ;D ;D
Some people enjoy driving
Some people like to get places in a reasonable timeframe <<< my category
Some people get frustrated with other drivers who really should either do the speed limit, or be banned for causing disruption <<< yeah, I fit in this one
Not everybody is Miss Daisy
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Not blaming anything for anything, simply looking for summat a bit more suited to the driving that I do, ie lots of dual carriageway roundabouts and proper fun twisties ::)
And not wanting to sit on the fence, but I fit squarely into all three of TBs categories :-X
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
My Signums front discs are 314mm istr,they look huge through the wheels compared to my old Mig.
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Prepare to hear something stunning, something which may not have be considered here ever before, in the history of chav-me Omega owners :o
Read the road and brake/ease off throttle earlier ::)
There is an old saying, a bad workman always blames his tools ::) ;D ;D
Some people enjoy driving
Some people like to get places in a reasonable timeframe <<< my category
Some people get frustrated with other drivers who really should either do the speed limit, or be banned for causing disruption <<< yeah, I fit in this one
Not everybody is Miss Daisy
Does enjoyment = speed? :-\
Missing the point though, just because you are hard on brakes, does not equal a fast drive. On the A4 I've seen people floor it away, then stamp on brakes. I slow just easing off, into second still rolling approaching lights. They change, i go, I'm ahead leaving lights yet I never pressed the brake. ;)
To say standard brakes are shit, really shows you must be doing very illegal speeds or braking far, far, too late!
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Try driving along a dual carriageway at 70mph, at the first roundabout ahead sign, lift off. How ever hard you try, an Omega will never negotiate a tight roundabout at 40mph without cutting it, so you brake, but that said your brake pads last 80k, and the discs 160k, so you plainly don't use them ::)
Is it really that unreasonable to ask the brakes to pull the car up from 70ish for more than ten roundabouts without fading :-\
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
Lets lay our cards down then.
I'd class myself as reasonably hard on brakes. If you stop before the white line, you've clearly braked too early.
To quote Mr Darth Loo-knee, I "drive like a cock".
The only discs I've warped have been pattern ones. You say your patterns are warping - I'm not surprised, most do if properly used.
I tend to use TC pads on the Bullet, and OE on TBE. I'd say neither were more tolerant to abuse, in fact both seem to be about the same (excluding the fact that TC lack bite/feel when cold). Beyond half worn, TC pads are spent. Don't be tight, bin 'em (thats a msg to all, not to Gixer). Not sure about OE, as Mrs TB tends to use that car.
The pedal has more travel than most modern cars. Thats personal preference if you prefer/hate that. As all know, I've had the misfortune to own a Focus, fart in those cars, and you go through the windscreen. So I prefer more pedal control, even if it is often used as a switch ;D
As said in previous post, Mr Gixer, you are a special case. We cannot make recommendations/sweeping statements on what we need is the norm for all OOFers :). And the MV8 will need uprated everything, obviously.
So, yes there are clearly potential improvements to be made, but the cost/benefit/insurance hassles factored in for many OOFers isn't viable. For most, the brakes aren't "shit" ;)
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Prepare to hear something stunning, something which may not have be considered here ever before, in the history of chav-me Omega owners :o
Read the road and brake/ease off throttle earlier ::)
There is an old saying, a bad workman always blames his tools ::) ;D ;D
Some people enjoy driving
Some people like to get places in a reasonable timeframe <<< my category
Some people get frustrated with other drivers who really should either do the speed limit, or be banned for causing disruption <<< yeah, I fit in this one
Not everybody is Miss Daisy
Does enjoyment = speed? :-\
Missing the point though, just because you are hard on brakes, does not equal a fast drive. On the A4 I've seen people floor it away, then stamp on brakes. I slow just easing off, into second still rolling approaching lights. They change, i go, I'm ahead leaving lights yet I never pressed the brake. ;)
To say standard brakes are shit, really shows you must be doing very illegal speeds or braking far, far, too late!
Ah, the cause of 3)
;D
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
Sorry but I still maintain that standard brakes are perfectly fine. No I don't always drive like miss Daisey. I drive normally!
At the end of the day, the Omega was designed as a comfy motorway cruiser. The standard suspension shows thag, even a 3.2 Omega is a barge. They ain't that fast...
I think there are a few minorities here, who want VXR8 performance without the price tag.
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
Sorry but I still maintain that standard brakes are perfectly fine. No I don't always drive like miss Daisey. I drive normally!
At the end of the day, the Omega was designed as a comfy motorway cruiser. The standard suspension shows thag, even a 3.2 Omega is a barge. They ain't that fast...
I think there are a few minorities here, who want VXR8 performance without the price tag.
Tunnie. The voice of reason. A 3.2 omega may seem fast when pitted against a 1.6 hatchback, most people's choice for fuel economy and cheap(er) tax. Put it up against a modern two litre upwards and it will come a very poor second.
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
Sorry but I still maintain that standard brakes are perfectly fine. No I don't always drive like miss Daisey. I drive normally!
At the end of the day, the Omega was designed as a comfy motorway cruiser. The standard suspension shows thag, even a 3.2 Omega is a barge. They ain't that fast...
I think there are a few minorities here, who want VXR8 performance without the price tag.
Tunnie. The voice of reason. A 3.2 omega may seem fast when pitted against a 1.6 hatchback, most people's choice for fuel economy and cheap(er) tax. Put it up against a modern two litre upwards and it will come a very poor second.
It might in the traffic light GP .. but I know which one I'd rather sit in for 10 hours when I drive to Kinloss ... As a long distance load lugger and attempting not to lose my licence every 3 miles ... :) the 3.2 Omega is almost perfect in standard form .. with LPG it gets even better .. :)
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
Sorry but I still maintain that standard brakes are perfectly fine. No I don't always drive like miss Daisey. I drive normally!
At the end of the day, the Omega was designed as a comfy motorway cruiser. The standard suspension shows thag, even a 3.2 Omega is a barge. They ain't that fast...
I think there are a few minorities here, who want VXR8 performance without the price tag.
Tunnie. The voice of reason. A 3.2 omega may seem fast when pitted against a 1.6 hatchback, most people's choice for fuel economy and cheap(er) tax. Put it up against a modern two litre upwards and it will come a very poor second.
It might in the traffic light GP .. but I know which one I'd rather sit in for 10 hours when I drive to Kinloss ... As a long distance load lugger and attempting not to lose my licence every 3 miles ... :) the 3.2 Omega is almost perfect in standard form .. with LPG it gets even better .. :)
I think that is what Tunnie is saying. Cruiser not racer.
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
I can guarantee you will have to come to a complete standstill at every single one due to the oppsing retards who live there waiting for oppsing rush hour to finish before pulling out.
70mph? Oh, yes, 70mph, of course, not any faster, obviously :-X
I drive normally
Based on my experiences sat in your passenger seat, you drive far more slowly cautiously than anyone I know. Outside of Milton Keynes, anyway.
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
Sorry but I still maintain that standard brakes are perfectly fine. No I don't always drive like miss Daisey. I drive normally!
At the end of the day, the Omega was designed as a comfy motorway cruiser. The standard suspension shows thag, even a 3.2 Omega is a barge. They ain't that fast...
I think there are a few minorities here, who want VXR8 performance without the price tag.
Tunnie. The voice of reason. A 3.2 omega may seem fast when pitted against a 1.6 hatchback, most people's choice for fuel economy and cheap(er) tax. Put it up against a modern two litre upwards and it will come a very poor second.
It might in the traffic light GP .. but I know which one I'd rather sit in for 10 hours when I drive to Kinloss ... As a long distance load lugger and attempting not to lose my licence every 3 miles ... :) the 3.2 Omega is almost perfect in standard form .. with LPG it gets even better .. :)
I think that is what Tunnie is saying. Cruiser not racer.
Indeed. Driving to Austria was not a problem. Comfy, easy to do. Relaxing. Which is exactly what this car was designed to do.
I hired a Suzuki Alto in Crete, now that I thought was shit. Underpowered compared to my 2.2, harsh ride. Loud & gutless. But. It was aimed as a city car, nipping about town. For that it ain't too bad, but there is no way in hell I'd drive that to Austria!
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Says he who doesn't drive one, besides, I don't live anywhere near Milton Keynes fank thuck. Twenty roundabouts between my house and Gatwick, all at the National Limit.
That's an average of one every 1.2 miles, not one can be negotiated 'in lane' comfortably at more than 20, hence using the brakes ::)
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
I can guarantee you will have to come to a complete standstill at every single one due to the oppsing retards who live there waiting for oppsing rush hour to finish before pulling out.
70mph? Oh, yes, 70mph, of course, not any faster, obviously :-X
I drive normally
Based on my experiences sat in your passenger seat, you drive far more slowly cautiously than anyone I know. Outside of Milton Keynes, anyway.
That's why yours is always broke, it's not up to it nor built for it. Get a modern, high powered car, then you can drive like you stole it.
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
My Signums front discs are 314mm istr,they look huge through the wheels compared to my old Mig.
Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
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Prepare to hear something stunning, something which may not have be considered here ever before, in the history of chav-me Omega owners :o
Read the road and brake/ease off throttle earlier ::)
There is an old saying, a bad workman always blames his tools ::) ;D ;D
Some people enjoy driving
Some people like to get places in a reasonable timeframe <<< my category
Some people get frustrated with other drivers who really should either do the speed limit, or be banned for causing disruption <<< yeah, I fit in this one
Not everybody is Miss Daisy
Does enjoyment = speed? :-\
Missing the point though, just because you are hard on brakes, does not equal a fast drive. On the A4 I've seen people floor it away, then stamp on brakes. I slow just easing off, into second still rolling approaching lights. They change, i go, I'm ahead leaving lights yet I never pressed the brake. ;)
To say standard brakes are shit, really shows you must be doing very illegal speeds or braking far, far, too late!
Your driving pleasure and mine are very different things. Plus the mv8 demands better brakes. Hell the 3.2 demands better brakes.
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Indeed, hence the plainly daft 15" spare ;D
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
Lets lay our cards down then.
I'd class myself as reasonably hard on brakes. If you stop before the white line, you've clearly braked too early.
To quote Mr Darth Loo-knee, I "drive like a cock".
The only discs I've warped have been pattern ones. You say your patterns are warping - I'm not surprised, most do if properly used.
I tend to use TC pads on the Bullet, and OE on TBE. I'd say neither were more tolerant to abuse, in fact both seem to be about the same (excluding the fact that TC lack bite/feel when cold). Beyond half worn, TC pads are spent. Don't be tight, bin 'em (thats a msg to all, not to Gixer). Not sure about OE, as Mrs TB tends to use that car.
The pedal has more travel than most modern cars. Thats personal preference if you prefer/hate that. As all know, I've had the misfortune to own a Focus, fart in those cars, and you go through the windscreen. So I prefer more pedal control, even if it is often used as a switch ;D
As said in previous post, Mr Gixer, you are a special case. We cannot make recommendations/sweeping statements on what we need is the norm for all OOFers :). And the MV8 will need uprated everything, obviously.
So, yes there are clearly potential improvements to be made, but the cost/benefit/insurance hassles factored in for many OOFers isn't viable. For most, the brakes aren't "shit" ;)
Couldn't agree more - silly to make sweeping statements based on a "one off" case - just puts most of the other members off due to "bad" information. Not sure I would necessarily describe Mr Gixer as a "special case" though in the light of his rather silly and pedantic posts on this topic.
We need to recognise the Omega was built quite a few years ago now, as a comfortable cruiser, not an out and out racer, and the brakes, in good condition, were at that time adequate and "fit for purpose" for the drivers these cars were aimed at. I drive fast and am considered "hard" on brakes, but do not drive stupidly on the roads. If you want to drive like that try it on a race track (on a track day preferably as you wont last long racing) - if you want to put an Omega on a race track I agree brakes amongst a lot of other items would definately need upgrading.
Or buy a more modern design car with more modern brakes ;)
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Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
Pretty much, though think the discs increase from 286 to 296.
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Chris, just stop moaning, get the wallet out and buy a VXR8 ;D
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Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
Pretty much, though think the discs increase from 286 to 296.
.... both front with bone bushes were vertical too :)
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So 10 roundabouts, accelerating to 70 each time then back to what, 20mph? In what Milton Keynes? Really? 10 round abouts??
I can guarantee you will have to come to a complete standstill at every single one due to the oppsing retards who live there waiting for oppsing rush hour to finish before pulling out.
70mph? Oh, yes, 70mph, of course, not any faster, obviously :-X
I drive normally
Based on my experiences sat in your passenger seat, you drive far more slowly cautiously than anyone I know. Outside of Milton Keynes, anyway.
That's why yours is always broke, it's not up to it nor built for it. Get a modern, high powered car, then you can drive like you stole it.
^^^^^ Do NOT take financial advise from this man. ^^^^^
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Chris, just stop moaning, get the wallet out and buy a VXR8 ;D
When they get to about 10k. Mind you if Holden go bust they might go up in price. :o
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Chris, just stop moaning, get the wallet out and buy a VXR8 ;D
When they get to about 10k. Mind you if Holden go bust they might go up in price. :o
Btw, the brakes are shit on those as well ;D
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Chris, just stop moaning, get the wallet out and buy a VXR8 ;D
When they get to about 10k. Mind you if Holden go bust they might go up in price. :o
Btw, the brakes are shit on those as well ;D
Ohh ffs. Where is that head banging brick wall smiley when you need it! ::)
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Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
Pretty much, though think the discs increase from 286 to 296.
.... both front with bone bushes were vertical too :)
Really? Didn't know that.
Btw. You hid the "lithp" well last time we met. ;D
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Chris, just stop moaning, get the wallet out and buy a VXR8 ;D
When they get to about 10k. Mind you if Holden go bust they might go up in price. :o
Btw, the brakes are shit on those as well ;D
Ohh ffs. Where is that head banging brick wall smiley when you need it! ::)
Absolutely the first thing to change on the Hsv forums.
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Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
Pretty much, though think the discs increase from 286 to 296.
.... both front with bone bushes were vertical too :)
Really? Didn't know that.
Btw. You hid the "lithp" well last time we met. ;D
It took me a minute ....... ;D ;D
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Guessing the brakes, chassis, suspension are all family hand me downs from Senator / Carlton.
Pretty much, though think the discs increase from 286 to 296.
.... both front with bone bushes were vertical too :)
Really? Didn't know that.
Btw. You hid the "lithp" well last time we met. ;D
It took me a minute ....... ;D ;D
I bit me tongue twith jutht reading it ;D
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
Lets lay our cards down then.
I'd class myself as reasonably hard on brakes. If you stop before the white line, you've clearly braked too early.
To quote Mr Darth Loo-knee, I "drive like a cock".
The only discs I've warped have been pattern ones. You say your patterns are warping - I'm not surprised, most do if properly used.
I tend to use TC pads on the Bullet, and OE on TBE. I'd say neither were more tolerant to abuse, in fact both seem to be about the same (excluding the fact that TC lack bite/feel when cold). Beyond half worn, TC pads are spent. Don't be tight, bin 'em (thats a msg to all, not to Gixer). Not sure about OE, as Mrs TB tends to use that car.
The pedal has more travel than most modern cars. Thats personal preference if you prefer/hate that. As all know, I've had the misfortune to own a Focus, fart in those cars, and you go through the windscreen. So I prefer more pedal control, even if it is often used as a switch ;D
As said in previous post, Mr Gixer, you are a special case. We cannot make recommendations/sweeping statements on what we need is the norm for all OOFers :). And the MV8 will need uprated everything, obviously.
So, yes there are clearly potential improvements to be made, but the cost/benefit/insurance hassles factored in for many OOFers isn't viable. For most, the brakes aren't "shit" ;)
Couldn't agree more - silly to make sweeping statements based on a "one off" case - just puts most of the other members off due to "bad" information. Not sure I would necessarily describe Mr Gixer as a "special case" though in the light of his rather silly and pedantic posts on this topic.
We need to recognise the Omega was built quite a few years ago now, as a comfortable cruiser, not an out and out racer, and the brakes, in good condition, were at that time adequate and "fit for purpose" for the drivers these cars were aimed at. I drive fast and am considered "hard" on brakes, but do not drive stupidly on the roads. If you want to drive like that try it on a race track (on a track day preferably as you wont last long racing) - if you want to put an Omega on a race track I agree brakes amongst a lot of other items would definately need upgrading.
Or buy a more modern design car with more modern brakes ;)
Or, upgrade the brakes on the omega. Sigh...
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To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
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To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
What....? When you try to use big words, you're supposed to put them in a certain order, so they make sense ;D
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Compare disc size with almost any other car, and the discs are disproportionately small. I guess budget comes into it, and ten ton plus stops without fade is probably in industry standard.
But add in how easy they warp(ebc in this case) , rust on the inner edge(ebc don't), fade with anything less than 75% pad material, lack bite, feel and servo asdistance I'm sorry, but they're shit and that's that.
Fit for a trip to the shops and back without spilling anything. But that's as complimentary as I can be frankly.
ANY other car has better bite (more servo assistance) than the omega. Not a mark on the power of the brakes capability fair enough but, Add in a bit of pad ware, some rusty discs after a lay up, a hire car while on holiday, and the poxy things can catch you out first time you stop when back in an omega.
These, ladies and gents, over the life or a set of discs and pads are.... SHIT BRAKES.
Lets lay our cards down then.
I'd class myself as reasonably hard on brakes. If you stop before the white line, you've clearly braked too early.
To quote Mr Darth Loo-knee, I "drive like a cock".
The only discs I've warped have been pattern ones. You say your patterns are warping - I'm not surprised, most do if properly used.
I tend to use TC pads on the Bullet, and OE on TBE. I'd say neither were more tolerant to abuse, in fact both seem to be about the same (excluding the fact that TC lack bite/feel when cold). Beyond half worn, TC pads are spent. Don't be tight, bin 'em (thats a msg to all, not to Gixer). Not sure about OE, as Mrs TB tends to use that car.
The pedal has more travel than most modern cars. Thats personal preference if you prefer/hate that. As all know, I've had the misfortune to own a Focus, fart in those cars, and you go through the windscreen. So I prefer more pedal control, even if it is often used as a switch ;D
As said in previous post, Mr Gixer, you are a special case. We cannot make recommendations/sweeping statements on what we need is the norm for all OOFers :). And the MV8 will need uprated everything, obviously.
So, yes there are clearly potential improvements to be made, but the cost/benefit/insurance hassles factored in for many OOFers isn't viable. For most, the brakes aren't "shit" ;)
Couldn't agree more - silly to make sweeping statements based on a "one off" case - just puts most of the other members off due to "bad" information. Not sure I would necessarily describe Mr Gixer as a "special case" though in the light of his rather silly and pedantic posts on this topic.
We need to recognise the Omega was built quite a few years ago now, as a comfortable cruiser, not an out and out racer, and the brakes, in good condition, were at that time adequate and "fit for purpose" for the drivers these cars were aimed at. I drive fast and am considered "hard" on brakes, but do not drive stupidly on the roads. If you want to drive like that try it on a race track (on a track day preferably as you wont last long racing) - if you want to put an Omega on a race track I agree brakes amongst a lot of other items would definately need upgrading.
Or buy a more modern design car with more modern brakes ;)
Or, upgrade the brakes on the omega. Sigh...
I would also argue, that completely ignoring driving style, speed, or heavy on brakes approach, that the hopeless level of servo assistance on the omega becomes more and more of an issue as time goes on. As jumping between cars highlights. Get in another car, and the servo assistance is massive, and once your used to it give much better control over the omega for much less effort.
The mondeo and focus are not over assisted, they are more assisted than the average. As all things are relative, you have to then conclude that relative to other cars, the omega brakes are massively under assisted. Arguably, as mentioned earlier with slightly low pads, rusty discs after a lay up in an airport car park, and being used to a hire car for a week, there's a good chance you'll run on at the next junction.
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To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment ;D
I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
What....? When you try to use big words, you're supposed to put them in a certain order, so they make sense ;D
Ok I'll give you that one. Speed being the easiest factor to eradicate.
Shouldn't you be in bed? ;D
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To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.
Gutted mate :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.
Gutted mate :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
No raced it myself.
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You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment ;D
I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
Yes a one off emergency stop, with pedal slammed on. Feels the same in a focus or mondeo. Maximum braking immediately. Servo assistance gives much better feel at minor more subtle braking levels IMO.
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You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Shame Webby, if I still had my Ferrari (and my racing licence), I'd have taken you round for a few laps - did it for quite a few friends a few years back.
Gutted mate :'( :'( :'( were you one of the guys that hired out their cars to race companies like Every man racing and the like?? :)
No raced it myself.
Very nice mate :) :) :) I fear it will be many moons before I can afford to own my own Italian Stallion (the car... not what you're thinking STE-HOMO!!! ;D)
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You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
Moderate, and from relatively sensible speeds. If I drive from Horsham to Crawley with passengers at 65 and back again at 75, that's 23 roundabouts in 16 miles over 25 minutes. The front discs will be groaning before I'm halfway back...
Hence the desire to improve matters :-\
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I would of thought better brakes would be desirable. Why people feel the need to knock improved brakes is entirely beyond me tbh.
Bloody argumentative is all.
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You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
Moderate, and from relatively sensible speeds. If I drive from Horsham to Crawley with passengers at 65 and back again at 75, that's 23 roundabouts in 16 miles over 25 minutes. The front discs will be groaning before I'm halfway back...
Hence the desire to improve matters :-\
When I drove to Cambridge there were loads of roundabouts on the A45 straight there. I cant tell you exactly how many.... but I was driving sensibly. and my brakes were fine.
I trust you haven't got a sticking calliper or owt like that?
-
To get brake fade after 10 roundabouts is definitely heavy braking :o
However I'm not going to comment on that. What I am going to comment on is something Tunnie and Chris mentioned.... that's driving enjoyment.
When I had my Ferrari track day that was bloody awesome. The thrill of flooring a mid-engine super car, feeling the acceleration and listening to the noise right in your ears... magic!
However, I love driving as much as you dudettes... but I (like Tunnie I suspect) enjoy a comfy drive*, taking in scenery being wafted about by a smooth riding, smooth sounding car. That's my enjoyment. The point is it doesn't matter what reason you enjoy driving for :)
There's also the safety thing. No offence meant but no one on here (I think) is a racing driver... which in essence means that the only real ability we have is to mash the pedal to the floor. I fear (and I don't say this to upset anyone as you lot can be a prickly bunch sometimes ::) ;D) that if your brakes are fading after 10 roundabouts there'll be a time (and I really hope it doesn't happen) that your talent will run out.
*note that even though I am a sissy driver I loved being driven around by the professional on the track day. And what was he driving.... a VXR8 :) :) :) Some proper awesome back-end-out stuff and to my credit I asked him to go faster 8) 8) ;D
Talent runs out at any speed. Speed is not the ultimate factor. Attention and judgement is far more important, and lack of it causes a lot more agro. Although its the easiest factor to eradicate. Hence the misconception.
True. My main point regarding safety was more braking distances :) But then we're getting in to the area that I can't comment on... i.e. the ability of the brakes past a safe braking distance.... that's why I tried to stick to only commenting on driver enjoyment ;D
I will say this though.... I drove me and Mrs Bear to Cambridge for a long weekend the other week and I came off the motorway on to a long curving slip road. A lorry in front locked up as he'd mis-negotiated a give way point (that was strange to be fair) and I slammed on my anchors and at no point did I fear I wouldn't stop. I know we'd have to go through calculations i.e, how far I was behind, speed etc etc but my point is that even with the long pedal lol I had confidence I'd stop.
Yes a one off emergency stop, with pedal slammed on. Feels the same in a focus or mondeo. Maximum braking immediately. Servo assistance gives much better feel at minor more subtle braking levels IMO.
See, more servo assistance would be the last thing I'd want on an Omega, and Fords are awful, IMHO. Much more pedal feel if you are actually having to put some effort in, IMHO. Anyway, that's a different matter entirely.
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You say that Mr Bear, but the brakes simply don't dissipate the heat quickly enough to cool off between roundabouts :-\
Fair enough. But we're still talking about this happening under heavy braking htough?
Moderate, and from relatively sensible speeds. If I drive from Horsham to Crawley with passengers at 65 and back again at 75, that's 23 roundabouts in 16 miles over 25 minutes. The front discs will be groaning before I'm halfway back...
Hence the desire to improve matters :-\
When I drove to Cambridge there were loads of roundabouts on the A45 straight there. I cant tell you exactly how many.... but I was driving sensibly. and my brakes were fine.
I trust you haven't got a sticking calliper or owt like that?
MoTd every 6 months, fluid changed regularly (Dot5), as are discs and pads. Brake machine shows brakes are balanced and effective, all four wheels going to 1 o'clock on the gauges. 0 is at 7 o'clock btw. :y
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Ok, taste aside, but it's not good to be so far away from the average level of force applied at the pedal in other cars.
Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
It does take some getting used to, but I had a mk1 mondeo, and the brakes where stonking in that. Once over the whamo at what seems like the slightest touch, the first time their used.
In fact the new Astra vxr is very similar, as the sales rep complained of whip lash at the first junction on the test drive. ;D
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Has anyone owned their Omega from new? Has the feel of the brakes deteriorated over time?
Wondering if an upgrade or refurbishment of the master cylinder might be in order :-\
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Has anyone owned their Omega from new? Has the feel of the brakes deteriorated over time?
Wondering if an upgrade or refurbishment of the master cylinder might be in order :-\
I've had brand new Omegas, and the brakes were always "defined" as progressive, ie as you braked harder, more servo assistance came into play, unlike Fords where max servo assistance immediately on brake application.
Would have thought on a car of the Omegas age, a refurb of the brake master cylinder, wheel cylinders and repacement flexis can only help, along with a complete brake fluid change.
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
May well be working well enough to pass MOT, but not possibly working at maximum potential efficiency ;)
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
Bigger discs, better pads, braided lines and an overhauled master cylinder...
Has anyone owned their Omega from new? Has the feel of the brakes deteriorated over time?
Wondering if an upgrade or refurbishment of the master cylinder might be in order :-\
I've had brand new Omegas, and the brakes were always "defined" as progressive, ie as you braked harder, more servo assistance came into play, unlike Fords where max servo assistance immediately on brake application.
Would have thought on a car of the Omegas age, a refurb of the brake master cylinder, wheel cylinders and repacement flexis can only help, along with a complete brake fluid change.
So the impression of a lack of decisiveness is designed in :-\
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
May well be working well enough to pass MOT, but not possibly working at maximum potential efficiency ;)
A bit coincidental that they're all evenly matched/worn...or is it :-\
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
Bigger discs, better pads, braided lines and an overhauled master cylinder...
Has anyone owned their Omega from new? Has the feel of the brakes deteriorated over time?
Wondering if an upgrade or refurbishment of the master cylinder might be in order :-\
I've had brand new Omegas, and the brakes were always "defined" as progressive, ie as you braked harder, more servo assistance came into play, unlike Fords where max servo assistance immediately on brake application.
Would have thought on a car of the Omegas age, a refurb of the brake master cylinder, wheel cylinders and repacement flexis can only help, along with a complete brake fluid change.
So the impression of a lack of decisiveness is designed in :-\
Apparently so - was advised this when I trial drove my first Omega back in 1996.
Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
May well be working well enough to pass MOT, but not possibly working at maximum potential efficiency ;)
A bit coincidental that they're all evenly matched/worn...or is it :-\
Would expect reasonably even wear of similar components over a large number of years, I guess
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Thing is though if ETA's had the brake balance tests and everything is working properly where does he go with that? :-\
May well be working well enough to pass MOT, but not possibly working at maximum potential efficiency ;)
A bit coincidental that they're all evenly matched/worn...or is it :-\
It seems you have a problem somewhere.... break fade with normal braking in a passenger car :-\
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Possibly at the human interface level :-X
That said the ABS only kicks in on snow, so perhaps I'm simply not pressing the pedal progressively enough :-\
All the calipers and brake lines are original.
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I know you're far more experienced than me mate but have you serviced the brakes... i.e. had calipers off and made sure everythings moving smoothly, calliper, slides etc? I suppose if there were a caliper problem youd know as it would be pulling to one side...
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Have to say when I bought my TR4A, the brakes were perfectly adequate for a TR of that age. For the rebuild I replaced all seals in master cylinder and calipers, fitted new rear cylinders (drum brakes at rear, cylinders lightly scored), and replaced all flexis, together with new pads and shoes. The improvement was very evident - even more so when I fitted an overhauled servo from a landcrab!
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Interesting thread...
FYI... I'm running high carbon Brembo discs, yellow stuff pads - Front, red on the rear, DOT 5.1 and Goodridge hoses all round.... Stops MUCH better than the OEM set-up BUT chuck in a few roundabouts and even the standard sized carbon discs start to give up the ghost :-\
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So what were concluding is that a more efficient set up is needed to improve the usability/fade resistance :-\
In other words, well worth pursuing...
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
Exactly my sentiments Jaime, and the reason why I posted in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but they should make it clear that it is only their opinion and not "cast in stone"
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Exactly my sentiments Jaime, and the reason why I posted in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but they should make it clear that it is only their opinion and not "cast in stone"
There are some things we can say pretty much as fact. For eg, as we are talking about brakes, cheapo discs/pads made by the likes of Apec and Mintex are pretty dire on the Omega, even if not gunning it all the time. Thus we know, based on our collective experiences, TC discs and pads (or OE pads if you like that extra bite/feel from cold) are the ideal setup for the vast majority of OOFers. We can almost cast that in stone.
IMHO anyway.
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I would not describe the brakes on the Omega as anything more than adequate and have scared myself a couple of times from riding my motorbike for a few weeks in the summer to jumping in the car, then shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii when needing to pull up sharply forgetting hoe poor they are compared to a bike.
Talking about driving style, I think that is a personal thing. Some people like to serenely drive about at 20 to 25 in a 30 limit to up to 45 everywhere else. The only reason the car accelerates is where the world is round and they will find the Omega brakes more than adequate. They never have an accident, but witness hundreds around them.
At the other end of the spectrum are those are that how shall I put like to make progress, enjoy the g forces from fast acceleration, hard braking and when going fast round corners, and the do because it is enjoyable driving like that and they would be board to death and probably complacent to hazards where their brain is not being exercised enough driving sloooooooooooooowly. Now you could argue that the Omega is not the car for them but when they need also it to be load carrier, a long distance tourer as well as a family runabout at an affordable price, it fulfils those needs as an all rounder better than most. The majority of the people I know that fit into this category of driving are ex-bike riders, especially those that ragged them to death in their teens, where it was digital throttle, digital brakes and a point of honour that the TT100 tyres were scrubbed right to the edge and the corners ground of the foot pegs and old habits die hard.
To say one method of driving is better than the other misses the point as long as you drive safely and within the law, then your driving style is personal And IME the first style of drivers, with zero anticipation or situation awareness of those around them are by far the most dangerous.
I all for making things better, like the upgraded discs and braided hoses on my bike and likewise would find the Omega a better driving experience with better brakes, plus in an emergency when you need that bit extra it is there.
So lets talk about what would be a cheap and effective ways to improve the Omega brakes?
1. Improved air ducting?
2. Braided hoses?
3. Better calipers?
4. Bigger discs?
5. A different compatible servo?
6. Different brake pads?
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
Or completely discounting the newer Halfords kits to oofers that have no socket set at all, purely based on a phobia over screw driver bits. ;)
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
Or completely discounting the newer Halfords kits to oofers that have no socket set at all, purely based on a phobia over screw driver bits. ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
Or completely discounting the newer Halfords kits to oofers that have no socket set at all, purely based on a phobia over screw driver bits. ;)
As per the post on that thread, 120pc represents far better value for pretty much the same set, minus some of the screwdriver bits (which are 2-a-penny).
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Plus, I just remembered, there is an entry in Tis regarding servos. Later models have a servo with an extra valve that gives more assistance under emergency braking conditions. Now, if that's not an admission of some level of guilt or desire for more assistance, I don't know what is.
Virtually all new cars, including those with the (IMHO) over assisted servos :)
I have no issue with people wanting to improve any aspect of their cars, but to class a trait as "shit" when it doesn't affect the vast, vast majority of OOFers, is not the best advice. Be a bit like me classing SC3 MO as "shit" as the grip levels are below some of the tyres I liked.
Oh shit, I've mentioned tyres ;D
Exactly my sentiments Jaime, and the reason why I posted in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but they should make it clear that it is only their opinion and not "cast in stone"
In every area they are lacking. Feel, bite, heat loss, diameter, pad area, swept area, piston count, rusting inner edge and warping. And that's doesn't include the size and weight of the car their fitted to.
The very idea of upgrading them was challenged, the response was they are shit for the reasons given, because they are.
The question was answered now your challenging that answer. Why, the answer is sound.
I do however, fully accept the oofers are smart enough to know that something is fine for them then there's no need to mess with it. Obviously.
Christ, even you admit changing the pads before their half worn. ::)
And my sc3 are way better than your F1 :P
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Christ, even you admit changing the pads before their half worn. ::)
Aye, my "brake upgrade" is to ensure the pads are relatively meaty. That allows them to mostly survive the trials and tribulations of daily MK use
And my sc3 are way better than your F1 :P
Jury is still out. The F1's aren't bad. Not bad at all. But not fantastic. Once I know the durability, I'll be able to comment if performance/durability ratio is suitable for me.
I've used SC3 on my MV6 (generic I believe, was a while ago), and thought they weren't as good as the SC2 I had on before. Neither were as good as the SP9000s I normally used at the time, and the Sport Maxx TT were even better in all respects. The RTs were stunning for performance, but lacked the stability feel that the TT's gave. Life was slightly shorter I reckon (hard to tell, as Mrs TB started using it more, and she's kind to tyres).
From memory, my SC3s gave similar life to the SP9000s. Don't believe they were MOs though.
But we digress ;D
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Should add, currently have TC discs and pads all round :y
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Well you did mention tyres.
CEM .... ? ;D
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Should add, currently have TC discs and pads all round :y
I tend to use TC pads at rear, as soft as shite, lets the TC grab the wheel before the engine cuts. Get it on a decent greasy road, adjust the mirrors down to the wheels, and watch the dust fire off them when you plant it, and keep it planted. My record is about half a mile. Shagged the pads though.
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Ignoring tb's and gixers tiff ;D ......... Do many think that the diameter of the discs is too small? Just thinking al cos you're getting brake fade under normal braking... This isn't normal. Is it likely that hdisc size isn't enough to dissipate heat?
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Ignoring tb's and gixers tiff
I love him really....
Do many think that the diameter of the discs is too small? Just thinking al cos you're getting brake fade under normal braking... This isn't normal. Is it likely that hdisc size isn't enough to dissipate heat?
Without doubt, if the car was designed today, it would carry bigger discs.
Brake fade is normal in any car. Never had a vehicle that hasn't suffered it.
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Ignoring tb's and gixers tiff ;D ......... Do many think that the diameter of the discs is too small? Just thinking al cos you're getting brake fade under normal braking... This isn't normal. Is it likely that hdisc size isn't enough to dissipate heat?
Yes, they are too close to the limit. Al does alot of miles and drives an estate at full pressures to take the unknown loads he'll likely carry.
They are certainly borderline for a car this size and weight, so it only takes one aspect of servicing to be over looked and its quite easy to run into problems.
I wouldn't say that when those problems arise its instant disaster, they do recover. But their capacity for this size weight and power of car is a bit close the line.
Look around the car parks, check the disc sizes v vehicle size and power.
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Hmmm interesting. I agree with both. . .
The thing is I've kinda had it in my mind that under normal braking brakes don't fade. My understanding was this was only brought on by heavy braking...
I suppose it again depends on what you class as normal braking as I've never had an instance where I've felt brakes have gone off :-\
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Really not trying then Mr Bear ;D
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Really not trying then Mr Bear ;D
Clearly ::) ;D
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All things are relative. If omega brakes where the first ever invented they'd be the best ever.
...and what's normal driving for one, isn't normal for another. Define normal driving...?
If TB gets in the car with Tunnie driving he'd(TB) go spare with impatience and boredom. Likewise if TB was driving Tunnie would find his driving impatient and ott. I suspect.
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Hmmm interesting. I agree with both. . .
The thing is I've kinda had it in my mind that under normal braking brakes don't fade. My understanding was this was only brought on by heavy braking...
I suppose it again depends on what you class as normal braking as I've never had an instance where I've felt brakes have gone off :-\
Brakes fade when they have reached a temperature at which they are so hot they cannot absorb any more.... they cannot absorb energy which is how they work, by turning the kinetic energy of the car into heat (by friction).
Heat will get into the brakes either by several highspeed/lowspeed stops in succession when the brakes don't cool between applications, or by a continuous steady braking over an extended time, when the brakes never cool at all.
First scenario is the sprinting from roundabout to roundabout at max speed with late braking to get around .... second is a very long descent down a steep hill without using the gearbox to assist ... both can cause trouble .. eventually ...
IMHO the brakes are not "shit", they are sufficient for the design of the car .. a long distance motorway(autobahn) cruiser. The "progressive" nature of the brakes being there to comfort the luxury passenger. If required in an emergency .. they work and work well.
I have done many, many miles in the 2 tonne barge, with a further tonne and a half strapped to the back. I have cruised at 70 (ish) on motorways, pressed on on back roads, and done a lot of long downhill sections in that time... and I've NEVER had brake fade .. probably because I think ahead and try and have some sympathy with the brakes .. which does NOT mean doing 25 everywhere !! it means not hammering the brakes when not needed.
Now, if the brakes are not good enough for the driving style of some .. then fine ..upgrade them, but to disparage them out of hand, simply because they don't suit YOU... is wrong IMHO.
A little "mechanical sympathy" goes an awful long way ..... :)
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Agree Nige, but it's not just me. Despite what's said here. ;)
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I readily subscribe the mechanical sympathy way of thinking...
Brake pads and discs are a hell of alot cheaper than clutches and gearboxes ;)
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Agree Nige, but it's not just me. Despite what's said here. ;)
Put another way, what works for one, or one group, doesn't mean it works for all.
I'd suggest embracing improvement, instead of denying it. Tbh.
Poly donuts for instance. Poly front wbone bushes. Etc etc. not for everyone, but those that want, CAN.
Don't ever stand in the way of progress. Ever. (Assuming its genuine progress of course, time will tell on that front.) its part of the process, first you find your weakness, and fix it.
First
Handling, improved. Polys etc. better tyres, set up.
Second
stopping. As discussed.
Third
Going, bigger lump. But only once one and two are sorted.
Take or leave as applicable. You all know your needs. ;)
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....
Without doubt, if the car was designed today, it would carry bigger discs.
The car would have a more fashionably bigger wheel rim to fit bigger discs/calipers inside of. Don't forget that the Omega originally had 15" rims (some had the old Senator 15" X spoke BBS type rims on)
Brake fade is normal in any car. Never had a vehicle that hasn't suffered it.
Remind me to never be your passenger ;) ;) ;)
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He's not that scary, a bit nervewracking the first time you're a passenger in you're own car with TB driving...
But he's only driven my car for tyre and suspension assessments :y
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Is the airflow around the front brakes good enough or would improved ducting make a big difference?
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Currently has 18" wheels on, so about 2" clear radius around the disc :-\
Irmscher front bumper is deeper and better vented than standard too...
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Is the airflow around the front brakes good enough or would improved ducting make a big difference?
Don't know.
Never played with ducting. But always presumed it to be minimal, and shaping ducting round components without fouling within the wheel housing so it directs air through the wheel through its entire steering axis....
Not sure but the area behind the wheel liner is solid chassis rail iirc. So is it a case of coming through from the front end of the liner but around the wheel when its turned in fully. Then over the top of the wishbone.
I'd guess it involves a bespoke moulded plastic duct with a flexi hose section in the middle to allow for suspension movement.
Plus, if running ebc red pads these work better hot, or at least with some heat in them, so depends on set up.
Certainly there is minimal allowance for it as standard afaict.
Maybe something that's been made for another car could be made to fit.
But that still leaves the actual power of the brakes themselves to deal with. Disc diameter increase also gives better leverage on the wheel. Nearer the outer diameter the easier it is to stop the wheel. Bigger swept area gives more contact for the pad, and both divide the same energy over a bigger area. Add more pistons, gives more power and spreads the heat over 4 or 6 pistons as opposed to the omegas 1, although its effectively a pair, a single piston keeps heat away from the fluid more than a pair but...
Bah, I'm rambling now. Sorry, just thinking aloud. :-[ ;D
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Guess you could bin the sl pump and move the horns, then trim the bottom half of the wheel arch liner :-\
Immediate issue with that is the fact that the bottom trailing edge of the bumper is secured to the arch liner...
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Your a Biker Rods?
Ever noticed how hard the rear brake has to be pressed to get it to do anything, then it gets to a certain point and it just locks up. Totally useless in all but the most basic use. Like holding it in a hill while you put your gloves on...?
Well same here, increase the disc diameter and you get all the power back that the front brake has. Ask Niki Hayden, almost doubled the size of his rear brake on his race bikes in search of better control, although that was his personal choice and another story entirely.
But the logic, as I'm sure I dont need to feed to you all, but I'm rambling so opps it ;D is, increase the disc and calliper size, you get the power and fix the heat proportionately as well into the bargain.
If there's no more room in the wheel, then obviously ducting is all that's left. I guess.
Sorry if that's all abit obvious, I was off on one and couldn't stop. ;D lol ;D
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The worst for that was my Triumph Trident that had a rear drum brake as it started to heat up so it would gradually start to work. Back wheel braking was always a must in icy and snowy weather or rain after a long dry period and the roads are very greasy and slippery as you can fishtail all day long, but once you've lost the front...... :o :o :o :o
On the Kawasaki the original pad were useless in the wet, dangerously so, as you had nothing for a wheel revolution or two until the pads had cleared the water off the disc, then they would start to bite, but the danger was always to make sure you didn't over brake as the natural tendency was to pull on the lever more. This I cured by using dunlop sintered pads, which were great but at the cost of speeding up the disc wear. I replaced these with EBC disc, braided brake lines and their kevlar pads, but in the wet the hesitation was back. Bike has been off the road for sometime now due to the effects of the recession, but going back to sintered pads will be a must when I put it back on the road, plus I need to get a master cylinder service kit where the front brake lever now pulls all the way back to the handle bars! :o :o :o :o
Back brakes on bike have very little effect on braking, where the majority of work is done by the front. GP riders used to use the back brake as a form of manual traction control before that was fitted.
Going back to Omega brakes, then bigger discs will help with heat dissipation, but will it be enough, I suspect not. Four pot and six pot as you say will increase the pad area, but will also increase the heat generated. A possible solution would be harder pads that work to a higher temperature, but your then making another Omega brake problem worse with relatively long pedal travel and lack of initial bite that Omegas suffer from as the pad will need more heat to reach full efficiency, although braided hoses would help in firming up the pedal. I don't know how good Omega calipers are with regard to expanding on braking as they always look a little weak to me.
The other issue is cost as I would imagine 4 pot aren't cheap and 6 pot are only going to be more expensive.
With any ducting could you get away with a front spoiler hole and a hose to the plastic inner wheel arch as there has not only got the be clearance for the suspension but also for the steering. Lozzz's picture of the Omega with the engine remove looks as if that would be a possibility.
Lot of questions with few answers I'm afraid.
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Well, in speaking to Serek, his oversize discs and 6pot callipers in 18" wheels where cold enough to touch by hand after a work out.
Al, I and others have 18" already, so can take advantage of that space.
If you look at Al's post he's provided a 2 stage upgrade, first for 17" second for 18" and potentially answered the problem of finding a bigger calliper for the rear for free, by fitting the omega front calliper on the back.
So initially at this stage, we're looking at front callipers and discs only. Still a fair cost, but answers all the short comings. ;)
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Just to add, Sereks callipers where alloy, rather than cast iron(are they?) of the omega ones. They're certainly a big heavy metal lump that holds heat more than alloy will.
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The Monaro VXR calipers are aluminium on steel frames, still pretty weighty. The AP ones are all alumium :y
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Ignoring tb's and gixers tiff ;D ......... Do many think that the diameter of the discs is too small? Just thinking al cos you're getting brake fade under normal braking... This isn't normal. Is it likely that hdisc size isn't enough to dissipate heat?
Yes, they are too close to the limit. Al does alot of miles and drives an estate at full pressures to take the unknown loads he'll likely carry.
They are certainly borderline for a car this size and weight, so it only takes one aspect of servicing to be over looked and its quite easy to run into problems.
I wouldn't say that when those problems arise its instant disaster, they do recover. But their capacity for this size weight and power of car is a bit close the line.
Look around the car parks, check the disc sizes v vehicle size and power.
I was contemplating this earlier, and as you say most modern luxury saloons have bigger discs now. Disc sizes have certainly increased, but then cars have got heavier, and the number of retards on the roads now has increased, meaning brakes get more of a workout. The Omega is 20yrs old next year.
It was actually my pet hate on an Omega - the bloody gearbox - that got me thinking about the age of Omegas. Its a crying shame they never put in a decent autobox with more ratios, as by the time the Facelift was around, the 4 speed ARx5 was looking a bit poor. But, then, its "good enough" for tootling around.
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The next gen omega was going to be the v8 obviously. Sorry to keep on about it, but that had the 4l60e as we know. But even that only got 330 discs and the 4 pot calipers Al posted in post 1. They still drilled holes in the wheel baring housing of the disk to keep/vent the heat away from the bearing.
The baring itself was upgrade in some way. Not sure how.
Development was all that was needed. Bit frustrating given the parts available through gm.
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Maybe GM realised that the gearbox still would have been so far behind the competition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to can Omegas had already been made at that point...
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Maybe GM realised that the gearbox still would have been so far behind the competition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to can Omegas had already been made at that point...
Release date was mid y2k, so started project mid 99? Too close the face lift version to decide at that point surely?
Anyway, these brakes? ... ;D
I'm intrigued to see if the front calliper fits the rear. As Al suggests. :) save a bloody fortune if it does.
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Let me get christmas out of the way ::)
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Maybe GM realised that the gearbox still would have been so far behind the competition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to can Omegas had already been made at that point...
Release date was mid y2k, so started project mid 99? Too close the face lift version to decide at that point surely?
Anyway, these brakes? ... ;D
I'm intrigued to see if the front calliper fits the rear. As Al suggests. :) save a bloody fortune if it does.
;D That doesn't make you sound knowledgeable or intelligent, just 2000 would have done.
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The LS lump in standard tune only needs two gears...
first second and overdrive ::)
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The LS lump in standard tune only needs two gears... first second and overdrive ::)
Was Omega V8 a Northstar? It says on TIS, if someone has it loaded.
The reason it sticks in my mind is I would have thought Northstar would have been too big...
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Maybe GM realised that the gearbox still would have been so far behind the competition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to can Omegas had already been made at that point...
Release date was mid y2k, so started project mid 99? Too close the face lift version to decide at that point surely?
Anyway, these brakes? ... ;D
I'm intrigued to see if the front calliper fits the rear. As Al suggests. :) save a bloody fortune if it does.
;D That doesn't make you sound knowledgeable or intelligent, just 2000 would have done.
NUUUURSE, HES OUT OF GEN CHAT AGAIN. ;D
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The LS lump in standard tune only needs two gears... first second and overdrive ::)
Was Omega V8 a Northstar? It says on TIS, if someone has it loaded.
The reason it sticks in my mind is I would have thought Northstar would have been too big...
It was an ls1, me thinks MrTB is a little tired.
No way on gods green earth will a North Star fit. MrTB knows this. ::)
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The LS lump in standard tune only needs two gears... first second and overdrive ::)
Was Omega V8 a Northstar? It says on TIS, if someone has it loaded.
The reason it sticks in my mind is I would have thought Northstar would have been too big...
It was an ls1, me thinks MrTB is a little tired.
No way on gods green earth will a North Star fit. MrTB knows this. ::)
I know its too big. But look at TIS (I can't, I've melted one machine with TIS, and corrupted the other ;D). I'm 99% certain it says its a Northstar. And I'm 100% sure with the Northstar's heads, it'd never fit.
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The LS lump in standard tune only needs two gears... first second and overdrive ::)
Was Omega V8 a Northstar? It says on TIS, if someone has it loaded.
The reason it sticks in my mind is I would have thought Northstar would have been too big...
It was an ls1, me thinks MrTB is a little tired.
No way on gods green earth will a North Star fit. MrTB knows this. ::)
I know its too big. But look at TIS (I can't, I've melted one machine with TIS, and corrupted the other ;D). I'm 99% certain it says its a Northstar. And I'm 100% sure with the Northstar's heads, it'd never fit.
Northstar is also front wheel drive. ;)
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The confusion might stem from the fact that the current V8 Cadillac lump is a Northstar derivative... in a rwd chassis ::)
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The confusion might stem from the fact that the current V8 Cadillac lump is a Northstar derivative... in a rwd chassis ::)
It can't possibly be a Northstar, hence it sticks in my mind that TIS said it was...
...unless my marbles have gone, and I read it somewhere else, not TIS. Thing is, if I read it on Internet, I'd assume it was bullshit :-\
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Ok 9 nine pages on........
Anyone got any good ideas as for improving the brakes all round.
I'm all ears......
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First post :y nine pages ago ::)
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First post :y nine pages ago ::)
so you go for this set up from 1st page ?
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It's as good a place to start as any :-\
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The confusion might stem from the fact that the current V8 Cadillac lump is a Northstar derivative... in a rwd chassis ::)
It can't possibly be a Northstar, hence it sticks in my mind that TIS said it was...
...unless my marbles have gone, and I read it somewhere else, not TIS. Thing is, if I read it on Internet, I'd assume it was bullshit :-\
It might have been, I will check at some point as there is also something in my mind saying the same.
Northstar is not nearly as wide as you think as the stroke is not nearly as long as the Gen IV 's(so the deck height is less). Plus exhaust manifolds are very well contained and dont impact on the width.
They were also built as of around 2000 for rear wheel/four wheel drive apllications (water pump moved etc).
However, the control system is pretty advanced with variable valve timing etc so getting on running outside of is targeted vehicle would be a challenge
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Going by the Cadillac CTS-V, they supercharge quite nicely too 8)
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Going by the Cadillac CTS-V, they supercharge quite nicely too 8)
Ls range in the CTS-V I thought? Ls2 / Ls6
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Stand corrected :-[
Cadillac used the Northstar in a rwd summat... Possibly the STS then :-\