Topic: NCDC2013 External Audio (Read 3431 times)

Lampynoiseboy · « **on:** 14 May 2010, 11:53:19 »

Hi
New here, so please accept my apologies if I repeat an existing thread.

My '01 3.0 elite has a Siemens NCDC2013 with satnag, but has also had a Trafficmaster fitted. I've pulled the control box as the subscription was up, and it was never much use anyway, but whenever it spoke to me, the display showed "external audio". I'm wondering if this feature is usable for an mp3 player input?
Guessing it's an automatic override or priority input of some kind, but having pulled the head unit out, I can't make sense of all the pin abbreviations on the top.

can anyone help with this?

Cheers

Jimbob · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 May 2010, 11:59:18 »

low quality mono only I belive

(moving to audio section)

Jimbob · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 May 2010, 11:59:58 »

[movedhere] Omega General Help [move by] Jimbob.

Dave DND · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 May 2010, 12:19:40 »

No, its a mono signal input and no use for MP3

FM Modulator is your only solution on that head unit

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 May 2010, 12:21:27 »

Quote

low quality mono only I belive

(moving to audio section)

D'oh, sorry for the wrong forum!

That may be worth a try, do you happen to know the pins or wire colours?

Pins have CDL, CDR & CD- which I'd think were normally for an external changer, but seeing as this has the 4 disc bolted on, doesn't make any sense? There is also a TL+ & TL- ?

TheBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 May 2010, 13:35:07 »

You cannot use the external changer inputs, as these are used by the internal changer (basically, same boards in the HU are used in cars where the changer is seperate).

The phone input, as used by Trafficmaster, is lo-fi mono only.

From memory, phone input is on Pins 34 - 36, which is audio in+, audio in-, and mute

Dave DND · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 May 2010, 13:39:27 »

As your PM has interest to others that have also tried and failed using this method, I have posted the rpely to your PM here.

Quote

Thanks for your comment on my audio issue.
You say that it's not suitable for an MP3 input, as it's mono, but I'm wondering why that would make a difference?
(I'm a sound engineer by trade, but I do concert/event stuff & know next to nothing about car audio!)
I see no reason why I couldn't mono the signal from my player & put that into the input where the TM was.

Not all the pins on unit are connected, and the labels are often generic ones used across the range.

The mono TM input is of exceptionally low quality, in fact its so bad, I`m going to say it again, its exceptionally low quality, nope, it commands yet another, its exceptionally low quality and is also mono, meaning that you will not get ture represenation of the stereo sound from your MP3. Remember that these units were designed to drown out the squeks and rattles of the car, and this was many years before MP3 was a reality - and the bottom line is that they are simply not designed to accomodate MP3.

I`m also stunned that as a sound engineer that you do not realise the importance of stereo and mono !!

Yes, you could conceiveably try to join together your two MP3 channels, and if you didn`t blow the MP3 player audio outputs by short circuiting this, you would find that the sound quality is appauling, but then as a sound engineer you would already know this.

The only real viable option is the use of an FM modulator for the sound, but before doing anything else, I would spend a few hours trawling this forum for those who have also thought similar, and blown up, given up, and tried and tested many things before you. Thats the beauty of this forum, there is a lot of knowledge out there, but you need to do some reading.

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 May 2010, 13:48:31 »

I do realise the difference between stereo & mono, and when rigging 20k plus line array, yes it's important. However given that in a car you are sat way off stereo center, most mp3's are of dubious quality (I use car listening time for evaluating new musical content- not always the best- or learning spanish), and most of the time as a smoker I have the window open, I'm looking for convienience not overall quality.

That's the beauty of the cd changer, when I get it working!

TheBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 May 2010, 13:55:54 »

FM Mod is the way to go with the NCDC units. Or replace the headunit.

I have pumped music from my phone through the phone kit, into the radio, its appalling.

Cassette adapters (can't use on that unit due to no cassette) are brilliant by comparison, and we all know how poor they are

Even poor FM modulators, like iTrip for gayPods, is far, far superior to the phone input...

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 May 2010, 13:56:37 »

Quote

From memory, phone input is on Pins 34 - 36, which is audio in+, audio in-, and mute

Thanks for that, however the pins don't appear to be numbered anywhere I can find, and whilst the mute is clearly identifiable, audio in isn't. Any idea what else they could have labelled it as?

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:01:14 »

Quote

FM Mod is the way to go with the NCDC units. Or replace the headunit.

I have pumped music from my phone through the phone kit, into the radio, its appalling.

Cassette adapters (can't use on that unit due to no cassette) are brilliant by comparison, and we all know how poor they are

Even poor FM modulators, like iTrip for gayPods, is far, far superior to the phone input...

Point taken, maybe that will be the way to go.

You have given me another idea tho..... my Nokia CK-15W is almost fitted, I take it the NCDC wants only a line level input as oppose to the speaker level my kit outputs? If so I feel some attenuation coming on.....

TheBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:02:33 »

Quote

Quote
From memory, phone input is on Pins 34 - 36, which is audio in+, audio in-, and mute

Thanks for that, however the pins don't appear to be numbered anywhere I can find, and whilst the mute is clearly identifiable, audio in isn't. Any idea what else they could have labelled it as?

34 mute
35/36 - audio

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:13:57 »

D'oh, count the pins & you will discover there are 36. If 34 is mute, that makes 35 & 36 labelled TL+ & TL- although God knows what Tl stands for

I'll get my coat.........

Thanks!

TheBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:18:42 »

Quote

D'oh, count the pins & you will discover there are 36. If 34 is mute, that makes 35 & 36 labelled TL+ & TL- although God knows what Tl stands for

I'll get my coat.........

Thanks!

TeL as a guess

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:20:47 »

Think I should leave now

*checks for blonde roots*

TheBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:23:50 »

Quote

Think I should leave now

*checks for blonde roots*

Be a bit careful, as I don't think that input is protected. Pretty certain the isolation/audio transformer doesn't exist in later cars either.

Those headunits are stupidly expensive....

TheBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:25:07 »

Oh, and in case you haven't already read, they don't like CDRs - causes them to fail quicker.

That goes for both the Satnav disk slot and the cd changer, both of which use older style Philips lasers...

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:26:38 »

Good call.

Seeing as the carkit output is speaker level rather than line, I think I'll put some resistors in, unless I can find a circuit diagram for the kit & bypass the amplifier stage, although Nokia are very tight with there info....

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:30:46 »

Quote

Oh, and in case you haven't already read, they don't like CDRs - causes them to fail quicker.

That goes for both the Satnav disk slot and the cd changer, both of which use older style Philips lasers...

I've read that, but never had that experience with any other kind of CD player. Been fixing various commercial ones for many years now, and found that they either work or don't, not known CDR's to damage lasers.
Must be a quirk of the Phillips

Wonder if there is a compatible one by another manufacturer... long shot but it has worked before- I have a 12 year old Technics broadcast player that now plays CDRs.... gotta love Sony!

TheBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:32:34 »

Quote

Quote
Oh, and in case you haven't already read, they don't like CDRs - causes them to fail quicker.

That goes for both the Satnav disk slot and the cd changer, both of which use older style Philips lasers...

I've read that, but never had that experience with any other kind of CD player. Been fixing various commercial ones for many years now, and found that they either work or don't, not known CDR's to damage lasers.
Must be a quirk of the Phillips

Wonder if there is a compatible one by another manufacturer... long shot but it has worked before- I have a 12 year old Technics broadcast player that now plays CDRs.... gotta love Sony!

We've not found suitable replacements, so if you do stumble upon anything

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #20 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:34:31 »

Sometimes bringing one industry to another does work- only sometimes!!!

Will let you know

Cheers

TheBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:35:55 »

Quote

Sometimes bringing one industry to another does work- only sometimes!!!

Will let you know

Cheers

Thats what makes 'communities' like OOF work so well - there is usually always somebody with the knowledge/experience/contacts to help in most situations

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 May 2010, 14:39:51 »

True, but on the flip side, some can be really snooty.

No names, but I subscribe to one industry forum, that unless you know everything about everything they ignore you.

But if you did, you wouldn't be there, or if you were, no-one would ask any questions because they'd all know it already therefore making the forum utterly useless!

TheBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 May 2010, 15:14:34 »

Quote

True, but on the flip side, some can be really snooty.

No names, but I subscribe to one industry forum, that unless you know everything about everything they ignore you.

But if you did, you wouldn't be there, or if you were, no-one would ask any questions because they'd all know it already therefore making the forum utterly useless!

Hmmm, I can see that working. NOT!

Andy H · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 May 2010, 15:33:57 »

Being curious (and a sucker for a gadget) I bought one of these last week. I really wasn't expecting it to work at all but with the unit in the arm rest and the aerial in the passenger footwell (it started off stuck to the rear passenger window but fell off) it works surprisingly well using its built in FM transmitter.

It sounded the same to me as any of the FM stations and better than either the tape or crappy philips CD in my CCR2006.

Morgan Computers DAB Highway

Dave DND · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 May 2010, 15:43:16 »

Quote

Quote
True, but on the flip side, some can be really snooty.

No names, but I subscribe to one industry forum, that unless you know everything about everything they ignore you.

But if you did, you wouldn't be there, or if you were, no-one would ask any questions because they'd all know it already therefore making the forum utterly useless!
Hmmm, I can see that working. NOT!

Lol !
Sounds like many of the dedicated car Audio Forums !!

Industry forums are generally poor !

Dave DND · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 May 2010, 15:44:35 »

Quote

Being curious (and a sucker for a gadget) I bought one of these last week. I really wasn't expecting it to work at all but with the unit in the arm rest and the aerial in the passenger footwell (it started off stuck to the rear passenger window but fell off) it works surprisingly well using its built in FM transmitter.

It sounded the same to me as any of the FM stations and better than either the tape or crappy philips CD in my CCR2006.

Morgan Computers DAB Highway

They are certainly getting a very good following in the In Car market - can`t really fault them for what they are

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 May 2010, 18:15:21 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
True, but on the flip side, some can be really snooty.

No names, but I subscribe to one industry forum, that unless you know everything about everything they ignore you.

But if you did, you wouldn't be there, or if you were, no-one would ask any questions because they'd all know it already therefore making the forum utterly useless!
Hmmm, I can see that working. NOT!

Lol !
Sounds like many of the dedicated car Audio Forums !!

Industry forums are generally poor !

Yr not kidding, I also joined "another Vauxhall owners forum" with the same questions, intro etc. I've been on here all day with topics & welcomes, and guess what I've had from the other one?

Yup

Naff all!!!

revolvolt · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 May 2010, 19:26:30 »

hi all.
A bit of a thread hijack but with a few other hu's you can connect to the cd changer in for mp3 use. obviously i would lose the changer, but do the experts think this is feasible.?

Andy H · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 May 2010, 19:40:45 »

Quote

hi all.
A bit of a thread hijack but with a few other hu's you can connect to the cd changer in for mp3 use. obviously i would lose the changer, but do the experts think this is feasible.?

Quote

You cannot use the external changer inputs, as these are used by the internal changer (basically, same boards in the HU are used in cars where the changer is seperate).

I guess that means no (unless you intend to strip the unit down and modify it internally). I think the CD player has a security code that has to match the head unit and the GID display.

The FM modulator seems like a much safer way of getting a signal into the unit.

revolvolt · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 May 2010, 20:59:42 »

"I guess that means no (unless you intend to strip the unit down and modify it internally"

That would be the plan. Don't know about these but vdo and blaupunkt have adaptors just for this use. and going by those it's juet 3 wires

VXL V6 · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 May 2010, 22:14:17 »

Quote

"I guess that means no (unless you intend to strip the unit down and modify it internally"

That would be the plan. Don't know about these but vdo and blaupunkt have adaptors just for this use. and going by those it's juet 3 wires

There is a chap by the name of 'hardwarekiller' on some of the German Opel forums who has built a small interface to break into the input lines from the autochanger on the NCDC units. Seem to recall that it tricks the headunit into thinking it has an extra CD (as in a disc 5) and the audio input is simply piped through from an external source.

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 May 2010, 23:20:06 »

Interesting, shame my German didn't make it past 4th year senior!

And with 779 pages of topics, it could take a while.... even with Google translate

revolvolt · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 May 2010, 19:12:02 »

I think this might just do the job, but first i need to learn german to work out what he's on about

http://www.motor-talk.de/bilder/aux-ueber-wechsler-am-ncdc-2013-g1194724/ausgangslage-i202854463.html

Lampynoiseboy · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 May 2010, 18:23:24 »

Copy & paste the link into Google translate, it's pretty good

revolvolt · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 May 2010, 19:43:43 »

technicalese tends not to translate very well. but i'll give it a try.

ttfn

Dave DND · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 May 2010, 22:42:48 »

Just be carefull, as the NCDXXX stereos are not very forgiving when you play around inside, and very very few people can fix them if you damage them.

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Author Topic: NCDC2013 External Audio (Read 3431 times)