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Author Topic: Burger King Adverts  (Read 7828 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #60 on: 28 April 2019, 16:54:04 »

No, I disagree.  Advertising still relies on a good, or even better, cheapest product (as you touch on) and it can be a failure if it does not appeal to the public. Sainsbury's, Waitrose, M&S, Debenhams, even John Lewis, no matter how polished and expensive their offer is it has not won them back sales from the cheapest offerings of Aldi, Lidl, Asda, Tesco, Primark and those firms online.  IT is the PRICE that stills wins the day in retailing, as it always did, then comes the level of customer care.  The difference is now that people want something for nothing; the cheapest it can be, even if it is crap!  McDonalds  have had a far better regime of advertising and product range than Burger King, and their unquestionable success shows the results of this. The latest BK adverts will not reverse that trend for the reasons I gave, like insulting,humiliating and treating your customers as stupid. Every business relies still on an ever growing sales trend to survive; kill off the chance of increased footfall, with the linked sales/profit growth and the business dies. ;)
McDonalds success in the UK was the Happy Meal. Nothing more, nothing less. Even McDonalds acknowledge this. McDonalds don't really represent value for money. KFC wipe the floor on that front.  I'd argue that non motorway BKs are cheaper than McDonalds like for like (ie, Big King meal (£4.99, or £2.99 on most days, as there always seems to be an offer on) versus Big Mac meal (£6))

I think any non dreary ad, whether or not it belittles competition, will work.  That's how ads work in this current world.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #61 on: 28 April 2019, 17:02:50 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...

John Lewis Partnership would certainly being doing better profit wise without Waitrose, and that highlights the very point I was making.  Potential Waitrose customers, traditionally seen by many as better off "professionals", are being temped away by the likes of Tesco, and even Aldi along with Lidl.  To counteract this, and honouring the JL price match promise, Waitrose are having to try and keep up with the cheaper pricing levels of the competition, and therefore losing out on potential profit margins, when they overall do not attract the tremendous buying power discounts enjoyed by certainly Tesco.  They are commiting the sin in the retail trade of "buying sales", with a dramatic effect on profits.  But to survive this is what the JL Partnership has to do for now, until it all proves too much.  The departmental store side of the business is already under attack from all the players affecting others in that field, and any continuing'loss of profit worth' of the Waitrose side of the business means it will go to save the main departmental stores.  No matter how much advertising JLP commit too, the writing is on the wall. :'(
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TheBoy

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #62 on: 28 April 2019, 17:05:12 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...
Nope, with or without Waitrose, JL is struggling.  I suspect the Partnership/Associate thing will soon be pulled, and its inevitable that they will shut stores.

No going shopping often really highlights how much JL has gone down the Gary Glitter in the last 5 or 6 years. They don't really sell cock all now. They have lost that uniqueness, which in the days of internet shopping, means they have to compete on price - which is impossible in an online world.

I think there are a lot of parallels with Woolies. In the 70s and 80s, Woolies really were a proper department store, but started struggling against the catalogues, be that Argos or traditional ones. So what did they do? Did away with their own brand Winfield, and dropped all the unique lines, and just became like an overgrown CD/Video shop with a pick'n'mix sideline. Then went up the shitter when it seemed overpriced in an online world.

JL are following the same path - when was the last time anyone saw a Jonelle product - with nothing unique, and an ever shrinking product offering.
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TheBoy

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #63 on: 28 April 2019, 17:16:57 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...

John Lewis Partnership would certainly being doing better profit wise without Waitrose, and that highlights the very point I was making.  Potential Waitrose customers, traditionally seen by many as better off "professionals", are being temped away by the likes of Tesco, and even Aldi along with Lidl.  To counteract this, and honouring the JL price match promise, Waitrose are having to try and keep up with the cheaper pricing levels of the competition, and therefore losing out on potential profit margins, when they overall do not attract the tremendous buying power discounts enjoyed by certainly Tesco.  They are commiting the sin in the retail trade of "buying sales", with a dramatic effect on profits.  But to survive this is what the JL Partnership has to do for now, until it all proves too much.  The departmental store side of the business is already under attack from all the players affecting others in that field, and any continuing'loss of profit worth' of the Waitrose side of the business means it will go to save the main departmental stores.  No matter how much advertising JLP commit too, the writing is on the wall. :'(
As somebody who occasionally shops at Waitrose, they don't really price match.  Its John Lewis that price matches (although they are looking at stopping that).

I suspect Mrs TB would shop there if the carpark at our branch wasn't such a pain (I park in the main town carpark and run through the alleys - but then I'm only every going there to get something for lunch), seeing as our Tesco is so utterly hopeless...   ...but that's what happens with no competition.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #64 on: 28 April 2019, 17:31:07 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...

John Lewis Partnership would certainly being doing better profit wise without Waitrose, and that highlights the very point I was making.  Potential Waitrose customers, traditionally seen by many as better off "professionals", are being temped away by the likes of Tesco, and even Aldi along with Lidl.  To counteract this, and honouring the JL price match promise, Waitrose are having to try and keep up with the cheaper pricing levels of the competition, and therefore losing out on potential profit margins, when they overall do not attract the tremendous buying power discounts enjoyed by certainly Tesco.  They are commiting the sin in the retail trade of "buying sales", with a dramatic effect on profits.  But to survive this is what the JL Partnership has to do for now, until it all proves too much.  The departmental store side of the business is already under attack from all the players affecting others in that field, and any continuing'loss of profit worth' of the Waitrose side of the business means it will go to save the main departmental stores.  No matter how much advertising JLP commit too, the writing is on the wall. :'(
As somebody who occasionally shops at Waitrose, they don't really price match.  Its John Lewis that price matches (although they are looking at stopping that).

I suspect Mrs TB would shop there if the carpark at our branch wasn't such a pain (I park in the main town carpark and run through the alleys - but then I'm only every going there to get something for lunch), seeing as our Tesco is so utterly hopeless...   ...but that's what happens with no competition.

Perhaps you should read this and get Mrs TB to ask for the Tesco price matching:

"6. Price match
At Waitrose & Partners, we believe that you should be able to shop for a fair price without compromising on either quality or service. We know price is really important, and that’s why we put so much effort into getting it right. We have been regularly checking the prices of some of our competitors since 2006, and since 2010 we have committed to be the same price as Tesco - using them as a benchmark for the supermarket industry - on more than 1,000 everyday branded products, week in, week out, excluding promotions. As you would expect from Waitrose & Partners, there are no gimmicks, no coupons to redeem against a later shop, and no need to check your receipt online. We simply match the prices on the shelf, so you benefit immediately when you pay.

We do this by regularly checking www.tesco.com for the price of branded products that both Tesco and Waitrose & Partners sell. Tesco prices are checked on-line at www.tesco.com for a postcode served by large Tesco stores, so prices checked will exclude Tesco Metro and Tesco Express.

Everyday branded products are selected from our food and drink grocery ranges. For “Price Match” marked products, standard retail prices are matched on identical branded products at www.tesco.com. This excludes own-label lines, multi-buys and temporary promotions or any other special offers. In line with our responsible approach to selling alcohol, we will not price match on any alcohol product where to do so would mean selling below cost. If Tesco has an item on a multi-buy promotion (for example, 'buy one get one free'), we will still match the single unit selling price of the item but not offer the free product. If Tesco reduce the price of a product which is pending temporary promotion within Waitrose & Partners we remove the product from the selection of products on which we price match."


The full Policy can be found at: https://www.waitrose.com/content/waitrose/en/corporate_information_home/corporate_information/legal_notices/terms_and_conditions.html#Pricematch

However, it is recognised in the trade, and by many of Waitrose customers, that Waitrose Price Matching has been scaled back with only the Tesco prices matched, and then (apparently) not all of them.

This highlights exactly what I meant by the trouble they are now in, with a desperate attempt at resurrecting their reduced profit margins.  A lost cause, and one that will spell the end of these stores, at l;east in their current form, and the fast deterioration of JLP overall :'( :'(

I personally have loved the John Lewis stores for decades, spending many thousands of pounds across their product range, so I do not look forward to their demise! :'(
« Last Edit: 28 April 2019, 17:32:49 by Lizzie Zoom »
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STEMO

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #65 on: 28 April 2019, 17:56:41 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...

John Lewis Partnership would certainly being doing better profit wise without Waitrose, and that highlights the very point I was making.  Potential Waitrose customers, traditionally seen by many as better off "professionals", are being temped away by the likes of Tesco, and even Aldi along with Lidl.  To counteract this, and honouring the JL price match promise, Waitrose are having to try and keep up with the cheaper pricing levels of the competition, and therefore losing out on potential profit margins, when they overall do not attract the tremendous buying power discounts enjoyed by certainly Tesco.  They are commiting the sin in the retail trade of "buying sales", with a dramatic effect on profits.  But to survive this is what the JL Partnership has to do for now, until it all proves too much.  The departmental store side of the business is already under attack from all the players affecting others in that field, and any continuing'loss of profit worth' of the Waitrose side of the business means it will go to save the main departmental stores.  No matter how much advertising JLP commit too, the writing is on the wall. :'(
As somebody who occasionally shops at Waitrose, they don't really price match.  Its John Lewis that price matches (although they are looking at stopping that).

I suspect Mrs TB would shop there if the carpark at our branch wasn't such a pain (I park in the main town carpark and run through the alleys - but then I'm only every going there to get something for lunch), seeing as our Tesco is so utterly hopeless...   ...but that's what happens with no competition.

 ;D ;D ;D
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #66 on: 28 April 2019, 18:08:30 »

JL is struggling because it cannot sustain Waitrose losses.

Senior management incompetence only compounds the problem.
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #67 on: 28 April 2019, 18:54:46 »

JL is struggling because it cannot sustain Waitrose losses.

Senior management incompetence only compounds the problem.


................and because the John Lewis departmental store business model is unsustainable long term.

In retail "losses" can occur for a number of reasons, but a key one is the cost of operating the store.  In the case of departmental stores they are very large, multi-floor units with massive rents.  They are also very expensive to staff, requiring a level  of employees per floor to provide adequate customer service, meet H&S requirements, let alone good security - most important if a retail company want to limit "wastage" .  To cover those costs you MUST generate profits  ; if you fail to do that you are running a non-viable business, as Debenhams and House Of Fraser have cruelly found out.

No matter what "management" do, the market is dictating what happens finally to the retail business.  No profit = no business.  Hence the failures of Woolworth's, BHS, HMV, Maplin, ToysRus, etc, etc.   The market rules, with the customer driving it with what they want in terms of price and physical shops, or simply an online site with a massive range all delivered to your door.  This is the 21st Century, and the retailing I and my parents once knew, is going fast.

You can be the best manager in the world but you will not buck this trend.  It is unstoppable and the only thing the owners / shareholders of these affected businesses can do is to pull out, take the smallest loss possible, and then invest elsewhere. ;)
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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #68 on: 28 April 2019, 19:17:13 »

I know two people who between them have nearly 40 years invested in JLP. The way it is currently run, it deserves to fold.

That is all I am prepared to say, however much you think you know about it as a firm.
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TheBoy

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #69 on: 28 April 2019, 19:28:30 »

Without Waitrose, John Lewis would be flourishing...

John Lewis Partnership would certainly being doing better profit wise without Waitrose, and that highlights the very point I was making.  Potential Waitrose customers, traditionally seen by many as better off "professionals", are being temped away by the likes of Tesco, and even Aldi along with Lidl.  To counteract this, and honouring the JL price match promise, Waitrose are having to try and keep up with the cheaper pricing levels of the competition, and therefore losing out on potential profit margins, when they overall do not attract the tremendous buying power discounts enjoyed by certainly Tesco.  They are commiting the sin in the retail trade of "buying sales", with a dramatic effect on profits.  But to survive this is what the JL Partnership has to do for now, until it all proves too much.  The departmental store side of the business is already under attack from all the players affecting others in that field, and any continuing'loss of profit worth' of the Waitrose side of the business means it will go to save the main departmental stores.  No matter how much advertising JLP commit too, the writing is on the wall. :'(
As somebody who occasionally shops at Waitrose, they don't really price match.  Its John Lewis that price matches (although they are looking at stopping that).

I suspect Mrs TB would shop there if the carpark at our branch wasn't such a pain (I park in the main town carpark and run through the alleys - but then I'm only every going there to get something for lunch), seeing as our Tesco is so utterly hopeless...   ...but that's what happens with no competition.

Perhaps you should read this and get Mrs TB to ask for the Tesco price matching:

"6. Price match
At Waitrose & Partners, we believe that you should be able to shop for a fair price without compromising on either quality or service. We know price is really important, and that’s why we put so much effort into getting it right. We have been regularly checking the prices of some of our competitors since 2006, and since 2010 we have committed to be the same price as Tesco - using them as a benchmark for the supermarket industry - on more than 1,000 everyday branded products, week in, week out, excluding promotions. As you would expect from Waitrose & Partners, there are no gimmicks, no coupons to redeem against a later shop, and no need to check your receipt online. We simply match the prices on the shelf, so you benefit immediately when you pay.

We do this by regularly checking www.tesco.com for the price of branded products that both Tesco and Waitrose & Partners sell. Tesco prices are checked on-line at www.tesco.com for a postcode served by large Tesco stores, so prices checked will exclude Tesco Metro and Tesco Express.

Everyday branded products are selected from our food and drink grocery ranges. For “Price Match” marked products, standard retail prices are matched on identical branded products at www.tesco.com. This excludes own-label lines, multi-buys and temporary promotions or any other special offers. In line with our responsible approach to selling alcohol, we will not price match on any alcohol product where to do so would mean selling below cost. If Tesco has an item on a multi-buy promotion (for example, 'buy one get one free'), we will still match the single unit selling price of the item but not offer the free product. If Tesco reduce the price of a product which is pending temporary promotion within Waitrose & Partners we remove the product from the selection of products on which we price match."


The full Policy can be found at: https://www.waitrose.com/content/waitrose/en/corporate_information_home/corporate_information/legal_notices/terms_and_conditions.html#Pricematch

However, it is recognised in the trade, and by many of Waitrose customers, that Waitrose Price Matching has been scaled back with only the Tesco prices matched, and then (apparently) not all of them.

This highlights exactly what I meant by the trouble they are now in, with a desperate attempt at resurrecting their reduced profit margins.  A lost cause, and one that will spell the end of these stores, at l;east in their current form, and the fast deterioration of JLP overall :'( :'(

I personally have loved the John Lewis stores for decades, spending many thousands of pounds across their product range, so I do not look forward to their demise! :'(
And that's why they don't sell much common branded stuff - or at least our one doesn't. Its mostly own brand, unbranded (such as their deli/butcher/etc counters, and loose fruit & veg) or unique to them stuff such as plonk.

Other stores might be different. I aint a supermarket expert, strangely enough (but do have to have my finger on the pulse when it comes to retail, as some here will know, and why).
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TheBoy

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #70 on: 28 April 2019, 19:35:07 »

oppsit, typed a long reply about why I am one of many not using JL any more, only for either my wifi to 'dangle berries' up, or the web server to disappear, and it lost it.


'dangle berries' to it
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BazaJT

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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #71 on: 28 April 2019, 19:42:17 »

I'm surprised to learn Wimpy are still going :o Last time I even saw one of their outlets[never mind actually going in one]  was either late '70s or very early '80s
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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #72 on: 28 April 2019, 19:46:34 »

I know two people who between them have nearly 40 years invested in JLP. The way it is currently run, it deserves to fold.

That is all I am prepared to say, however much you think you know about it as a firm.

With you not saying more it is hard to make further comment.  However, what I can say that working in JL even ten years ago would be very different to now.  In any fading retail empire, conditions for the partners would become increasingly hard.  I can see that in our local JL departmental store.  The signs are all there.  With the partners share of the profits hammered for last year, they would be feeling the decline.  They have also witnessed the departure of colleagues as the managers try to cut costs and give the P&L account a healthier appearance. As I previously stated they are fighting a losing battle in a costly to run operation. Morale will fall and cause a decline in good customer care and general management standards as the best get going leaving those who cannot find work elsewhere. It is what happens in retail when the situation becomes very difficult.  A great shame for what was a great business :'( :'(
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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #73 on: 28 April 2019, 20:17:42 »

By way of example, the senior HR management team were given the onerous task of making whole swathes of the company redundant, knowing full well that their positions were next having had to plan and implement the restructuring.

There's a saying that you may have come across... Shit floats. This is just as true in once honorable companies as it is in the worst ones. Sadly.
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Re: Burger King Adverts
« Reply #74 on: 28 April 2019, 20:23:31 »

By way of example, the senior HR management team were given the onerous task of making whole swathes of the company redundant, knowing full well that their positions were next having had to plan and implement the restructuring.

There's a saying that you may have come across... Shit floats. This is just as true in once honorable companies as it is in the worst ones. Sadly.

Yep, been there, done it.  In the early 1990's we had to introduce a "flattened management structure", and said goodbye to many colleagues. Not a happy time!! :'(

So, as I implied, many JL colleagues will have disappeared, as I have judged by the lack of available staff in our local store, which is what senior managers have to do to try and save the business from collaspe. They have already gone through hell, and regrettably there will be more to come as they fight to reduce costs. :'(
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