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[fcc-pt]

Is there any chance of getting new original hose spring clips for Omega B engine X30XE?

[Nick W]

If you must use that type of clamp - I dislike them, and always replace with a worm drive(Jubilee) clamp - you can buy them new. Google spring hose clamp and you'll find plenty.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Personally, I prefer to use the original type, even thogh they are awkward buggers without the correct tool, because they apply the correct amount of pressure and cant be overtightened like a worm drive clip can. Especially important when they are being used on a plastic pipe.

[fcc-pt]

Personally, I prefer to use the original type, even thogh they are awkward buggers without the correct tool, because they apply the correct amount of pressure and cant be overtightened like a worm drive clip can. Especially important when they are being used on a plastic pipe.

I recall that I had to replace the main radiator because someone remembered to replace the original spring clamp by a jubilee clip.

Is there any chance I can get it?

[fcc-pt]

If you must use that type of clamp - I dislike them, and always replace with a worm drive(Jubilee) clamp - you can buy them new. Google spring hose clamp and you'll find plenty.

I really meant original not some Chinese copying.

[deviator]

Personally, I prefer to use the original type, even thogh they are awkward buggers without the correct tool

If you own a v6, why wouldn't you buy the correct tool?

A quick google suggests 'Clic R' style clips are still available and in use.

[Nick W]

If you must use that type of clamp - I dislike them, and always replace with a worm drive(Jubilee) clamp - you can buy them new. Google spring hose clamp and you'll find plenty.

I really meant original not some Chinese copying.

the first link in the search I tried was for Mikalor branded, industrial quality ones.

[Nick W]

Personally, I prefer to use the original type, even thogh they are awkward buggers without the correct tool

If you own a v6, why wouldn't you buy the correct tool?

A quick google suggests 'Clic R' style clips are still available and in use.

Clic R clips are not the same thing - they're what held the breather hoses on originally.

[dave the builder]

I've never been a fan of the spring clips,
always swapped them for worm-drive ones when ever i take a spring clip off 

[Nick W]

I've never been a fan of the spring clips,
always swapped them for worm-drive ones when ever i take a spring clip off 

If you do that and I definitely do that, perhaps we are cancelling out the TEOTWAKI moment that the rest of the forum thinks will happen? 

[dave the builder]

I've never been a fan of the spring clips,
always swapped them for worm-drive ones when ever i take a spring clip off 

If you do that and I definitely do that, perhaps we are cancelling out the TEOTWAKI moment that the rest of the forum thinks will happen? 

we should save them and sell them back to the rest of the forum 

[Nick W]

I've never been a fan of the spring clips,
always swapped them for worm-drive ones when ever i take a spring clip off 

If you do that and I definitely do that, perhaps we are cancelling out the TEOTWAKI moment that the rest of the forum thinks will happen? 

we should save them and sell them back to the rest of the forum 

Yeah:


for sale: GENUINE Vauxhall Hose clamp guaranteed to be properly seasoned for 20years complete with main dealer history. No need to rebuild your suspension when your radiator hose has one of these at each end hence the discount price of only £27 each. They're GENUINE!!! GENUINE

[dave the builder]

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I already have spares. 

[Nick W]

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things 

That's all part of the seasoning. But they are made hand crafted by certified pure-bred descendents of Alexander Wilson from Ultra-madeupium^TM, so it won't have adversely affected them.

[TheBoy]

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

[Nick W]

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

There's a man who has never recovered a car 100 miles at 02:00 due to a weeping water hose. If it had been retained with a worm drive clamp I could have tweaked it and finished the entire job(including the paper work) in a couple of minutes. I've seen and put up with more leaking spring clamps than I have worm drive ones. Years of practical experience is why I install the spring clamps firmly in the bin. If installing rubber hoses on a robot production line, I would be specifying spring clamps, as problems would be SEP.

[TheBoy]

If installing rubber hoses on a robot production line, I would be specifying spring clamps, as problems would be SEP.

If you had a production line, you would indeed be fitting the correct fittings, because as a business, you would not want the warranty claims or reliability reputation. Be that weeps (because jubilees are universally crap on smaller hoses, like those on car engines), damaged hoses or cracked plastics.

But we'll agree to disagree, because you believe you are absolutely right, and I already know that spring clips are chosen for engineering reasons, not just cost.

[Andy B]

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

I'll watch you try to fit the original spring clips to the thermostat on my Smart Roadster .... just no room to get anything in there to open them up .... stainless Jubilee clips of the correct size when straight on. No problem years/miles later 

but all points should be put in the bin! 

[TheBoy]

Outside of an emergency, there is never a place on a car for a jubliee/wormdrive clip.  Thats why everyone moved over to the more reliable clips.

I appreciate some people believe points and carburettors are so much better than modern engine management systems, but its time to understand the world has moved to a better place.

I'll watch you try to fit the original spring clips to the thermostat on my Smart Roadster .... just no room to get anything in there to open them up .... stainless Jubilee clips of the correct size when straight on. No problem years/miles later 

but all points should be put in the bin! 

Ah, yes, but that is "designed" by Mercedes Benz, so you're screwed before you start.

With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it

[Nick W]

If you had a production line, you would indeed be fitting the correct fittings, because as a business, you would not want the warranty claims or reliability reputation. Be that weeps (because jubilees are universally crap on smaller hoses, like those on car engines), damaged hoses or cracked plastics.

But we'll agree to disagree, because you believe you are absolutely right, and I already know that spring clips are chosen for engineering reasons, not just cost.

As I've repeatedly posted, I use Jubilees(or Ideal) to reduce returns on mywork. All professional mechanics I know do the same - everyone keeps a range of them. Having a job come back because of a leaking hose due to not using a 70p clamp is unacceptable.


I don't overtighten them - a radiator size hose needs 5Nm, and will hold 100psi - and have never damaged a hose. Any type of hose clamp will have rolled edges if it can be considered a quality part.


 I reckon you'll strip the drive before cracking a plastic housing. Those are an entirely different aspect of inadequate engineering, consider the failure rate of BMW and Porsche plastic cooling parts.


The 35mm size for a radiator hose is hardly small, and the correct size(as small as you can) don't leak on FI hoses, temporary repairs on welding hoses(the correct crimp on ones worry me, but acetylene isn't to be fooled with)or low power hydraulic systems.


The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago, by an RN engineer, to provide an easy to use, long lasting and reliable replacement for twisted wire clamps like these pictured with a tool to produce them:

[Nick W]

With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it

You can replace a Jubilee clip without removing the hose......

[TheBoy]

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago

Precisely.

[TheBoy]

With the correct tools, if you can get any round clip on, you normally should be able to get a spring clip on. But I've not seem it, so take your word for it

You can replace a Jubilee clip without removing the hose......

True, but only if you have space to get you hands in. Which it sounds like there isn't.

[Nick W]

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago

Precisely.

If you want modern, why not swap to heat shrunk sleeves?


Try this simple test:
wander into any workshop that might be expected to connect a hose to something, and have them show you what they would use. If it isn't a genuine Jubilee clip(which is still a family owned company 100 years later) it will be a derivative. That's why they're readily available from any source of hardware.


Spring clamps are good enough on automotive coolant systems because they're low temp/pressure water. If you increase the temp and/or pressure, or change the fluid then better fittings are required. So you move through worm drive, T-bolt band clamps(which make a good exhaust clamp), then proprietary screw together fittings and into hydraulically swaged ones.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things 

That's all part of the seasoning. But they are made hand crafted by certified pure-bred descendents of Alexander Wilson from Ultra-madeupium^TM, so it won't have adversely affected them.

For those unaware this is historically accurate 

[Nick W]

with factory rust and bonus dried blood from the previous owner who ripped his skin apart on the crappy things 

That's all part of the seasoning. But they are made hand crafted by certified pure-bred descendents of Alexander Wilson from Ultra-madeupium^TM, so it won't have adversely affected them.

For those unaware this is historically accurate 

When aiming for satire, I usually settle for sarcasm. Historic accuracy is a first. And probably a last [size=78%] [/size]

[TheBoy]

The Jubilee clamp was developed over 100 years ago

Precisely.

If you want modern, why not swap to heat shrunk sleeves?


Try this simple test:
wander into any workshop that might be expected to connect a hose to something, and have them show you what they would use. If it isn't a genuine Jubilee clip(which is still a family owned company 100 years later) it will be a derivative. That's why they're readily available from any source of hardware.


Spring clamps are good enough on automotive coolant systems because they're low temp/pressure water. If you increase the temp and/or pressure, or change the fluid then better fittings are required. So you move through worm drive, T-bolt band clamps(which make a good exhaust clamp), then proprietary screw together fittings and into hydraulically swaged ones.

Sadly, because some have always used jubilees, thats all they use, and the workshops are full of the pieces of shite. As previously stated, as a quick bodge to get you out of trouble, they have a place.  But to replace a better clamp with them is an unusual stance.

But you won't find them in any modern workshop, because they are not that good, particularly on smaller applications like cars.

Also, you would find any on modern cars, because they aren't suitable.

You won't find them on performance cars (unless the tuner is an old fella who believes carbs and points give more power), because they aren't suitable.

In rare cases, you may find other types of worm drive, like T bar or that one with an retained nut and bolt and the name escapes me. These are kinder to hoses and plastics, and far less likely to leak than a jubilee, but still suffer the problem of a pinch point, and the variations of fitting by different technicians.


I did have a long chat with a man who built F1 engines in a former life, and we tried to think of any scenario when a jubilee would be a good choice on a car. And failed.  Unsurprisingly, seeing as years ago I recall a similar discussion with car designer Bro, although he did say some old British cars made by the Norfolk carrot crunchers used some odd hoses, so when he did his old Europa, he did use worm drive clamps (but not jubilees).


As said, we'll never agree on it. I believe you are incorrect, and you believe I am. Differences are healthy though .

[Doctor Gollum]

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing...

[TheBoy]

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing...

French. Don't count.

[Doctor Gollum]

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing...

French. Don't count.

Actually, the galley systems are often British or American and Hamburg plays a part in the build process

When I get back into work, I shall have a rummage, but I suspect that spring clips aren't used anywhere  it's all band clamps, jubilee clips or unions on hard lines depending on the system. Even the hard lines vary... Aluminium for low pressure and stainless steel for high pressure.

[TheBoy]

Best you don't look too closely at Airbus plumbing...

French. Don't count.

Actually, the galley systems are often British or American and Hamburg plays a part in the build process

I thought the design is entirely froggie, just with components made in other countries?  But I probably learnt that from a BBC/CH4 documentary, so probably 'dangle berries'

[Doctor Gollum]

Final assembly happens in Toulouse or Hamburg, but even things like the seats are delivered from Recaro or Weber complete and ready to fit. Likewise galley and toilet sub assemblies

Relatively little of what we do is covered by the aircraft IPC, and even things that are have to be cross referenced with the component manuals.

Fortunately, the parts system automatically cross references the part numbers for any aftermarket components, so whilst you might not have a given part number in stock, the alternative might be.

[Nick W]

Final assembly happens in Toulouse or Hamburg, but even things like the seats are delivered from Recaro or Weber complete and ready to fit. Likewise galley and toilet sub assemblies

Relatively little of what we do is covered by the aircraft IPC, and even things that are have to be cross referenced with the component manuals.

Fortunately, the parts system automatically cross references the part numbers for any aftermarket components, so whilst you might not have a given part number in stock, the alternative might be.

I'll save you the bother: despite their touted technical superiority, spring clamps aren't used on aircraft. Which means I don't need to mention Rotax engined autogyros that still have their original coolant hoses Those are a service part, and such a shit job to change that the manufacturer's parts kit includes new clamps. Jubilee clamps.....

[TheBoy]

Those are a service part, and such a shit job to change that the manufacturer's parts kit includes new clamps. Jubilee clamps.....[/font]

No no no, not unless you use Messers Bodgit and Scarpers.  Hence you don't see that junk on any cars, mass produced or custom built (assuming the builder knows their arse from their elbow).  *IF* you have to use a worm drive clamp because your hoses are an unusual size, you use better ones than jubilee style.

Service life of a spring clip type - a far better system for smaller hoses, giving a uniform, maintenance free clamp without pinch points at a precise tension - is usually rated at 15 years, but dependant on keeping the rust out.  Thats why I've never have to replace any on any of my Vauxhalls. So similar price for a far superior, more reliable fitment, faster fit, and less warranty. No wonder car makers use them.

Not suitable for higher pressures, obviously. But nor are jubilees.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Cant believe you two are still arguing about this. 

[Doctor Gollum]

I can

[TheBoy]

Cant believe you two are still arguing about this. 

I hate to see people following poor advice...

[terry paget]

To seal well all hose clips need to be the right size. Spring clips work over a very narrow range, and can be hard to remove if the tongues are not accessible.

Jubilee clips claim a wide range, like 35-50mm, but if used on too small a hose the nut part of the clip will have the wrong curvature and allow leakage. On my Astra and Vectra bottom hose connections, 35-50mm jubilees leaked, but 25-40 jubilees sealed well.

Spring clips can rust through and disappear. My daughter set off from home for London last Christmas, only to ring from Leigh Delamere, claiming the header tank upper hose had come off, releasing all the coolant. I drove there with spare spring clip, antifreeze and water, and sent her on her way.

[deviator]

Personally, I prefer to use the original type, even thogh they are awkward buggers without the correct tool, because they apply the correct amount of pressure and cant be overtightened like a worm drive clip can. Especially important when they are being used on a plastic pipe.

Sorry for raising the old post, I meant to add. Use mole grips on these clips. Makes life a lot easier.