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[amba]

Bit of advise please guys.

Over the last few months I have been trying without sucess to locate my  coolant level drop.If I top the level up it will drop by around 25mm over a period of say a week or 800 miles.The rate of this loss is not altered by having the heating on or off and the HBV has been thoroughly check and it is not the cause as I cannot see any evidence of staining nor can I see it leaking when engine is running and various heat settings are set..or set to low.

I have recently replaced the oil cooler and the plate has been sealed correctly..dowty bridge washers renewed and checked..washers correctly fitted onto oil cooler banjo bolts...thermostat housing replaced and 0 ring fitted along with a bead of oil cooler sealant around thermostat base just to be sure..coolant transfer pipe and both 0 rings seals renewed so think I have covered all bases along with a new heater matrix and seals around February when I also replaced both HBV to bulk head pipes along with the short pipe from the rear transfer pipe.Drivers side exhaust manifold gasket has also been done so new seal fitted to transfer pipe...although in truth I do seem to recall coolant level was dropping before all of the above had been done so have I missed something obvious ?

The coolant never drops below mid point nor have I had the low coolant warning appear so it seems to get to a certain point then stop. Today I have pressured the system to 18psi and left it for several hours to see what drop occured.It went down to around 14psi then didn,t got below that point despite releasing pressure and retesting several times.

I cannot see any signs of lost coolant but when the tank is filled to the full mark and I have driven car for a while you can smell coolant pressumably burning off from the exhaust so it must be leaking but no amount of pressure testing will reveal the area.

If the HG was the cause and it was allowing a small amount of coolant into the bore would this burn off with the smell .?

Any pointers of where else for me to look.

[tunnie]

Is it a 3.0?

[amba]

Nope Tunnie ,its a 2.5 circa 1998....you thinking the issues with that era and HG on nearside rear corner too ?

[YZ250]

Nope Tunnie ,its a 2.5 circa 1998....you thinking the issues with that era and HG on nearside rear corner too ?

Sadly that's exactly where my previous 1998 2.5 HG went. The engine heat vaporised the coolant loss so it took me ages to find the leak as no water ever made it to the floor. When I took that head off, the HG had rotted from the waterway to the outer edge.    The only tell-tale sign was a water mark on the offending area. I obviously did both HG's while I was at it. I sold the car soon after as I thought it was becoming troublesome, I didn't know at that point that it was relative to the year of manufacture. 

[ffcgary1]

check the rad,
it could have split the plastic side tanks, check just below the rad fan switch as there is a seam in the plastic and common for it to leak here.
Gary

[amba]

That was starting to become my thoughts too as its been doing it for a fair while now but never bad enough to get too hot or bring up warning light.

Don,t think given cars age and mileage that replacing both HG is really a sensible financial option so looks like I have 2 options then.

1..just live with it hoping it never gets any worse as I do check coolant regularly and its concentrate is at 50/50 only ever being topped up with the same mix.

2..if it gets worse I suppose an additive..snake oil  .might hold the tide at bay for a while especially as all pipes/radiators etc are clean so I do know there is no restrictions within system to make it any worse as far as flow is concerened.

[amba]

Cheers Gary...wouldn,t a pressure test show that up though ?

Would have expected to see coolant leaking out of a cold system pressured up to 18psi

[YZ250]

You may be able to see a white water mark at the nearside rear of HG with a mirror and a torch. 

[omega3000]

Bit of a mystery that one , before i replaced the coolant bridge seals i too smelt coolant in the car but since fitting new ones its stopped . Mine was losing water and over heating and was traced to a partially blocked rad but the old rad i took off was fine it just needed all the connections tightening up , ie the rad fan switch and another one near it  ..difficult to spot while on the car . Mite be worth trying to nip them up  And check the drain tap for drips , mine dripped overnight gradually and difficult to spot ..nipped that up and all ok 

[gstylebaby]

I have some coolant leak kits that i have put togther just not got round to popping any info up as yet but was going to offer them on here and on the bay.  Its a dye you put in the coolant and you use a u.v light to check. The kit is a bottle of the dye and a small l.e.d tourch.  I got the dye sent from the states so its not any cheap rubbish if your interested mate drop me a p.m.
Lee.

[cem_devecioglu]

Cheers Gary...wouldn,t a pressure test show that up though ?

Would have expected to see coolant leaking out of a cold system pressured up to 18psi

may , may not.. in my case fire rings were intact..

[amba]

Given the coolant burnt off smell I am convinced its coming from soempoint around the back of the n/side head.

Now as I have replaced every pipe/seal and almost every other thing that hold coolant I am really starting to think the worst and expect the HG to be the root problem.

As the only other telltale is that the coolant level is dropping albeit when it gets to a certain level is seems to albut stop,I am really thinking that just the routing topping of coolant and the putting up with the smell is my best and least difficult of all the solutions available to me.I am not sure if I really want to be proved it is the HG as that will be more work than the  car warrants now.

Thanks for help guys.  

[cem_devecioglu]

have you checked oil cooler and thermostat area ?

[amba]

Both oil cooler and thermostat replaced few months ago and both totally coolant tight...although the loss of coolant was evident before they were replaced.

[gstylebaby]

What yo mite be happening is that has the engine gets hot its letting coolant drip out from the rear of the head and then when the engine is cold resealing again so it becomes some what of a nightmare to find.  My elite has the same problem as yours and ran it for awhile just kept topping it up.  Lucky its never got any worse i'm going to do the job now its off the road and i'm using my estate.

[allen25]

Might be worth seeing how it goes for a while (as long as you can get home if the worst happens and that you are loaded with extra coolant). Personally, I'd be expecting it to become worse over time and maybe presenting more evidence? Hope it is not HG but you would do that job no doubt if minded to do so.

[ffcgary1]

sometimes amber the pressure test does not show rad leaks up because they are not up to temp, run up the engine and then pressure test.

[amba]

If I was of the mind to attempt HG replacements it would now need to wait until spring at the earliest due to needing to work outside andneeding car for work.

Will ponder some more and have another play with the pressure tester also maybe taking off plenum/fuel rail/lower inlet for abetter look.

Expect the theory of coolant finding the gaps when its hot is the most likely but not too sure if its a good idea getting it up to temperature then doing a pressure test as most reports say only to do on a cold engine.

[cem_devecioglu]

amba , your shortest route to solution can be : color dye (or a coolant already having it),  uv light and a dark garage..

[amba]

Cheers cem...trouble is I have tried all the more obvious and easier accesable fixes up to now and all that is really left is possibly the HG as an option.

Dont really know if I want to have it officially confirmed  as I doudt I will ever be replacing it at the mileage/age of my poor old car 

[albitz]

If I read it correctly the plenum & manifold were in place when you did the pressure test ? If so,I would remove them and  repeat the process,probably as one last roll of the dice before finaaly accpeting head gasket - providing your certain its not the rad,header tank etc.

[amba]

I will be "rolling that dice" during the week Albs when I have a look at that o/s cam cover/gasket, as I  needed to do some other work today so that has taken a back seat until mid next week.

[robson]

If you should need the use of a garage give me a call not too far away I can probably  get a head gasket at a good price.

[feeutfo]

If the coolent level stops at a cirtain level, would that imply that is the height of the leak..? Project that level accross the engine bay and cooling system and look above that level, as a first off i suppose...? Very odd that it holds pressure to that point too... Although it may take a cirtain amount of pressure to leak by, ie only leak above that psi. I've seen loose jubilees do this as they have a flat on the inner circumference, although no jubilees are used as stock.

I'd say removing scuttle, plenum, inlet and plastic wedge would be vital to a thorough pressure test, although you'll need to plug the throttle body collant pipes or use those to pressurise the system.

As said though that year doesn't bode well, so be prepared to clime up on the engine and look round the back of pot 6. There's core plugs between the head and coil PAC bracket, and bulkhead, lifting eye and surrounding gubbins all conspire to block your view of the back of the head. Mirror on a stick...?

It's also worth a look from under the car and up eround the back/top of the bell housing. Many an omega has the pink(or whatever colour of your coolant) residue dribbling down there like candle wax, but never actually reaching the floor due to heat evaporating it off first.

Might also be worth checking the coolent bottle and cap for leaks cracks or residue around the neck having cleaned it first. Caps are known to play up.

Does the engine temp vary? Is the oil milky on the dip stick? Any more mayo on the filler neck than normal? And mayo in the breather system or plenum inlet..? Hope not.

[05omegav6]

Fwiw, my rad leaks intermittently, and doesn't seem to vary with use, ambient temp or heater settings

It can go for days without a top up then suddenly might take a litre over 100miles.

The point being that they can fail almost unnoticed, so don't condemn the headgaskets just yet 

[amba]

As I had a spare hour on a nice dry Sunday afternoon I decided to have another play around.

Removed bottle cap,fitted pressure adaptor and pump system to 19 psi and stood back and waited  .After a few minutes noticed a slight puddle forming on the inside of the plastic engine  under tray,so feeling a bit better I was onto something decided to have a good search around with a LED torch  .Was also relieved as atleast that was well away from the likely HG area .After tracing the height of the coolant drop and where lower position of coolant seemed to be appearing from eventually found slight moisture around the top hose where it connects to the stat transfer pipe.Further checking found that the spring clip wasn,t very tight so removed the hose and replaced with all that I had to hand being a new jubilee clip and tightened with socket.

Bingo....the drip has stopped and holding steady 18psi for over 1 hour now without any drop ,so fingers crossed that may have atleast been part if not all of the problem and been bugging me for months now  .Doudt I would have ever found it without doing cold pressure test as coolant is just getting blown back when driving onto a hot exhaust and causing the burning smell I have had when topped bottle.

Pointers on level seem to bear out the problem as dropped coolant level is consistant with position of the transfer/top hose point..being quite a bit higher than HG joint.

My fingers are crossed that may have been the problem and a fairly simple fix although I  will monitor it during this week and see what happens.I do need to do some other stuff on the engine so will carry out further pressure test when plenum etc are removed but my initial findings look promising so thanks for all who have offered advise and motivation.

Not too happy about top hose to transfer pipe being secured with a jubilee clip now but I suppose if its holding tight then leave it well alone as those spring clips are a PITA to get at in that restricted place.

[albitz]

Hopefully that simple problem is all that has been causing your worries.That would be a right result.

[amba]

Fingers crossed all is water tight now as have nipped up several jubilee clips on and around the radiator area.

Will attack the o/s cam cover hopefully in the week and cure the other minor incontinent problem my poor old car has  ...weather permitting 

[YZ250]

Fingers crossed all is water tight now as have nipped up several jubilee clips on and around the radiator area.

Will attack the o/s cam cover hopefully in the week and cure the other minor incontinent problem my poor old car has  ...weather permitting 

Hopefully good news then.  The top hose to transfer pipe is a right pig to get at isn't it. Everything is in the way. 

[amba]

Top hose to coolant transfer pipe is a real pain to get at,so think I will just leave the jubilee clip on now as don,t fancy pulling that lot to bits again just to fit the spring type  ...even though I accept they are the recognised correct part.

Fingers crossed the "levy holds" now 

[cem_devecioglu]

If the coolent level stops at a cirtain level, would that imply that is the height of the leak..? Project that level accross the engine bay and cooling system and look above that level, as a first off i suppose...? Very odd that it holds pressure to that point too... Although it may take a cirtain amount of pressure to leak by, ie only leak above that psi. I've seen loose jubilees do this as they have a flat on the inner circumference, although no jubilees are used as stock.

I'd say removing scuttle, plenum, inlet and plastic wedge would be vital to a thorough pressure test, although you'll need to plug the throttle body collant pipes or use those to pressurise the system.

As said though that year doesn't bode well, so be prepared to clime up on the engine and look round the back of pot 6. There's core plugs between the head and coil PAC bracket, and bulkhead, lifting eye and surrounding gubbins all conspire to block your view of the back of the head. Mirror on a stick...?

It's also worth a look from under the car and up eround the back/top of the bell housing. Many an omega has the pink(or whatever colour of your coolant) residue dribbling down there like candle wax, but never actually reaching the floor due to heat evaporating it off first.

Might also be worth checking the coolent bottle and cap for leaks cracks or residue around the neck having cleaned it first. Caps are known to play up.

Does the engine temp vary? Is the oil milky on the dip stick? Any more mayo on the filler neck than normal? And mayo in the breather system or plenum inlet..? Hope not.

same come to my mind , for this I asked for thermostat and oil cooler

[amba]

Stat and oil cooler were replaced some months ago ,but from my limited memory    I had a coolant leak before that...but perhaps that was from the oil cooler plate which I replaced so I solved 1 leak but created another at a similar level  so all my thinking about what I had done to cure the leak was correct for the original 1 but had created another .

[cem_devecioglu]

Stat and oil cooler were replaced some months ago ,but from my limited memory    I had a coolant leak before that...but perhaps that was from the oil cooler plate which I replaced so I solved 1 leak but created another at a similar level  so all my thinking about what I had done to cure the leak was correct for the original 1 but had created another .

no worries, on those old cars you solve one problem , another pops up, either by your help or alone

[allen25]

Sounds like a good result, fingers crossed!

[amba]

Yes,they are very firmly crossed  ,so will see what happens this week if the level drops again