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[Shackeng]

Yesterday when I put the key into the TD ign, it would not turn on. I tried a couple of times. I then put the wrong key in, from the Elite, took it out again, and this time the TD key worked OK, and it was OK today. However I am concerned that it may be getting worn or whatever. What precautions, if any should I take?

[Kevin Wood]

When you next had an hour to spare and fancy a fiddly job, take out the lock barrel, dismantle, deburr and clean up all the lock levers, lubricate with some graphite powder and reassemble.

(assuming that the problem was that the key wouldn't turn)

[Shackeng]

When you next had an hour to spare and fancy a fiddly job, take out the lock barrel, dismantle, deburr and clean up all the lock levers, lubricate with some graphite powder and reassemble.

(assuming that the problem was that the key wouldn't turn)

It was, thanks Kevin.

[Kevin Wood]

Oh, BTW, there's a guide...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90600.0

[Shackeng]

Oh, BTW, there's a guide...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90600.0

 

[Nick W]

For the sake of your wallet, deal with the lock before it seizes up permanently!

[Shackeng]

For the sake of your wallet, deal with the lock before it seizes up permanently!

I will!

[Kevin Wood]

Actually, when mine got sticky I think the main culprit was not the lock levers themselves but the item identified as "sprung pin". This runs in round a track in the rear of the ali barrel casting and it was this which had worn and got rough. I think I gave it a bit of a polish with a Dremel and put a dab of white grease on it.

[Shackeng]

Actually, when mine got sticky I think the main culprit was not the lock levers themselves but the item identified as "sprung pin". This runs in round a track in the rear of the ali barrel casting and it was this which had worn and got rough. I think I gave it a bit of a polish with a Dremel and put a dab of white grease on it.

Thanks Kevin, I'm just off out to do it now.

[Shackeng]

Hmmm, my switch does not look like the one in the guide. This pic is taken from beneath, and has this large plastic monstrosity clipped around it, and no sign of a hole. Has the TD a different type ?

[05omegav6]

From the drivers seat...If you turn the wheel to 4 o'clock and look to where the end of the key blade is in the barrel, the release hole is a smidgen up and right of that point, about 3mm in size

To release the barrel, key to position 1 and insert summat suitable parallel to the column key should then pull the barrel out

[Marks DTM Calib]

That main lump is the immobiliser ECU, easily removed, (and it is in the guide so you can see things easier).

Its not totaly neccassary to remove this as Al has stated.

Quite a nice little theraputic job is sorting the ignition barrel out, a good one for the kitchen table.

[Shackeng]

Thanks guys, found it at last, have the barrel out, and am now at the very kitchen table advised Mark, on my laptop, with the guide.
I'm afraid I'm not much good at finding small holes these days.

[Shackeng]

Having cleaned and reassembled barrel, key will not turn at all. The numbered brass bits are all as removed and double checked. The two nearest the key are slightly proud before reassembly, presumably preventing it turning, so does this mean they are too worn, and I need a new barrel? Can't only be these 2 as with them removed, although it will turn 'with difficulty', it is still not right

[Andy B]

..... The numbered brass bits are all as removed and double checked.  ....

You sure?  It does seem like a tumbler or two aren't fitted correctly  you could just dress the protruding bits off with a file 

New tumblers aren't expensive though ..... I've got the web address of a place near Liverpool at home - but I'm at work now

[05omegav6]

Looking at the guide, a couple of questions...

1. have tried stripping and refitting the brass bits, sounds like the first two aren't quite seated correctly 

2. on reassembly, did you push the sprung pin in to enable the lock barrel to turn in the housing so that the sprung pin clicks onto its track?

[Shackeng]

..... The numbered brass bits are all as removed and double checked.  ....

You sure?  It does seem like a tumbler or two aren't fitted correctly  you could just dress the protruding bits off with a file 

New tumblers aren't expensive though ..... I've got the web address of a place near Liverpool at home - but I'm at work now

Thanks  Andy, I've now triple checked, and they are defo correct. I'll try the dressing idea, although they are quite proud, one two others are also slightly proud. Am i correct that with the key in, all tumblers should be more or less flush?

[05omegav6]

Are you not to hold them flush whilst inserting the key? Dressing will alter their dimensions, which might have consequences

[Andy B]

..... Am i correct that with the key in, all tumblers should be more or less flush?

Yes. 

[Andy B]

Are you not to hold them flush whilst inserting the key? Dressing will alter their dimensions, which might have consequences

That's what Chris wants  ...... there are worn tumblers & worn sections of key and so they are protruding a bit. 

[Shackeng]

You can see the 2 nearest the key are about 1.5mm proud. I can get the inner into the barrel, but even though depressed by the key they are catching the internal edges - I think

[05omegav6]

Reading the guide, it suggests holding them flush before inserting the key

Are the springs seated correctly

[Shackeng]

Reading the guide, it suggests holding them flush before inserting the key

Are the springs seated correctly

I can only assume so as with the tumblers removed the ends are all level. The key wont go in unless they are flush, and I can get it in to the tumbler section OK, it just won't turn in the outer.

[Kevin Wood]

Are you sure the last 2 haven't been swapped?

If not, guess they or the key have worn. That's probably why you had a sticky lock barrel in the first place?

[Shackeng]

They're definitely in the same position as removed. Both keys show the same symptoms, and as other tumblers are slightly proud, and more likely to have worn (brass) I think I need to replace them all. There is just the nagging feeling that as the key did, mostly, work OK before my efforts, I may still be doing something wrong, but for the life of me I cannot think what, as I was most meticulous to reassemble correctly.

[Shackeng]

..... The numbered brass bits are all as removed and double checked.  ....

You sure?  It does seem like a tumbler or two aren't fitted correctly  you could just dress the protruding bits off with a file 

New tumblers aren't expensive though ..... I've got the web address of a place near Liverpool at home - but I'm at work now

Thanks Andy, PM the address if you can, thinking about it, the car has done 120K, but, and a big but, mainly journeys of 20 miles or so. Therefore the key has been used much more than normal, and no doubt the tumblers are fairly worn.

[omegod]

You already have some near new tumblers....in the glove box lock  !  if it's the original that is   

[Broomies Mate]

You already have some near new tumblers....in the glove box lock  !  if it's the original that is 

Beat me to it! 

[Shackeng]

Good call, does my pfl have a glovebox lock, if so I've never used it, but it should be original, I bought the car at 5k 14 years ago.

[Shackeng]

Looking at the guide, a couple of questions...

1. have tried stripping and refitting the brass bits, sounds like the first two aren't quite seated correctly 

2. on reassembly, did you push the sprung pin in to enable the lock barrel to turn in the housing so that the sprung pin clicks onto its track?

Sorry Al, I should have replied earlier.

1. Tumblers are seated OK otherwise key will not pass through them.
2. Unable to replace plunger as key will not turn to allow it to be replaced.
 

[Broomies Mate]

Good call, does my pfl have a glovebox lock, if so I've never used it, but it should be original, I bought the car at 5k 14 years ago.

It will 

[Shackeng]

 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Just file the extra off

[Shackeng]

Just file the extra off

An option, but I note that on the upper edges which protrude there are 2 engineered notches on each tumbler, they must be there for a purpose, and would disappear if I file the edges off.

[Andy B]

Just file the extra off

An option, but I note that on the upper edges which protrude there are 2 engineered notches on each tumbler, they must be there for a purpose, and would disappear if I file the edges off.

just file 'em off till the new tumbles arrive 

(you have pm  )

[Shackeng]

PM received but can't reply due your full inbox. Thanks muchly for the info Andy.

[Andy B]

PM received but can't reply due your full inbox. Thanks muchly for the info Andy.

  Didn't realise  I'll sort it 

[Shackeng]

Does anyone know what the spring loaded mini door latch just inside the key collar is for? Perhaps to establish the key rotation track against the barrel?

[Andy B]

That's what you're pressing with the wire/baby allen key to release the barrel.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Just file the extra off

An option, but I note that on the upper edges which protrude there are 2 engineered notches on each tumbler, they must be there for a purpose, and would disappear if I file the edges off.

There there to keep the sides of the tumber away from the side walls of the barrel, losing one wont be an issue.

[Shackeng]

Thanks Mark, tinkering again this AM, I have reassembled it in working order with the two outer errant tumblers removed, and it appears to work OK. Apart from the - virtually non-existent - security issue, is there any reason it shouldn't be used like this?

[Shackeng]

That's what you're pressing with the wire/baby allen key to release the barrel.

Surely not Andy, its about 2" away from the release hole. 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thanks Mark, tinkering again this AM, I have reassembled it in working order with the two outer errant tumblers removed, and it appears to work OK. Apart from the - virtually non-existent - security issue, is there any reason it shouldn't be used like this?

Nope, still pretty secure as there a ten tumbler lock, its simply now an 8!

[Shackeng]

Thanks Mark, tinkering again this AM, I have reassembled it in working order with the two outer errant tumblers removed, and it appears to work OK. Apart from the - virtually non-existent - security issue, is there any reason it shouldn't be used like this?

Nope, still pretty secure as there a ten tumbler lock, its simply now an 8!

That's what I thought, and having discovered what a pita it is to get the glovebox lock out, I'll put it back until the new tumblers ordered (thanks Andy) arrive.

It seems reasonable that these two tumblers are the most worn, given they get the most contact with the key.

[Andy B]

That's what you're pressing with the wire/baby allen key to release the barrel.

Surely not Andy, its about 2" away from the release hole. 

Not sue then, I'd need to have another look inside a lock/barrel 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Are you refering to the bar type assembly at the rear of the lock barrel apperture?

[Shackeng]

That's what you're pressing with the wire/baby allen key to release the barrel.

Surely not Andy, its about 2" away from the release hole. 

Not sue then, I'd need to have another look inside a lock/barrel 

There is another captive spring catch on the outer body of the barrel, but the one I referred to is about 3mm wide, and sits just inside the key collar in the inner part. It is not captive!!! and is spring loaded with a similar, very small, and easily lost size spring to the tumblers.

[Shackeng]

Are you refering to the bar type assembly at the rear of the lock barrel apperture?

No, its just inside the collar next the key. There is another captive spring catch on the outer body of the barrel, but the one I referred to is about 3mm wide, and sits just inside the key collar in the inner part. It is not captive!!! and is spring loaded with a similar, very small, and easily lost size spring to the tumblers.

[Shackeng]

This is the little latch to which I referred, as you can see it has a very small spring, and as it is not captive, can easily be lost once the internal barrel is removed.
The spring fits in the smaller section of the latch housing shown next to the key collar, and is compressed by the 'tongue' on the side of the latch. I think it would be helpful to add a comment about this to the otherwise excellent 'How-To'.

[Shackeng]

I now have the ignition barrel reassembled with new tumblers from http://www.nwkeys.co.uk/Portal.aspx?page=43&cat=131&prod=7389 (thanks Andy) for £1.00 each, fitted back in the car, and it now works as smooth as silk. I recommend to anyone who has a notchy ignition to carry out this precautionary servicing.

[Shackeng]

Incidentally, I was quite surprised how much wear on the tumblers there was compared to the new ones, possibly as much as 1.5mm on the two outers.

[Shackeng]

An unashamed bump, as I'm still puzzled as to the purpose of the aforementiond catch.

[05omegav6]

Does it serve to hold the barrel into the handle

[Shackeng]

Does it serve to hold the barrel into the handle

No Al, I should have taken a pic with it in place, the flat side of the latch faces in. I can only think it is to locate the assembly against the face of the barrel. But that still does not explain why it is spring loaded, and not a fixed lug.

[05omegav6]

Does it rotate with the barrel? It's been ages since I took my glovebox lock apart, but iirc, it's a stupidly simply piece of engineering...

A damper against excessive leverage forces on the barrel, given the spike on the tail end of the barrel actually operates the latch... but starting to clutch at straws tbh

[Shackeng]

Does it rotate with the barrel? It's been ages since I took my glovebox lock apart, but iirc, it's a stupidly simply piece of engineering...

A damper against excessive leverage forces on the barrel, given the spike on the tail end of the barrel actually operates the latch... but starting to clutch at straws tbh

It rotates with the inner section, if you look at my pic above it is effectively part of the inner section, albeit lightly spring loaded outwards. It doesn't work as a damper. The spring acts outwards from it's mounting, so it is necessary to slightly depress the catch when inserting the centre piece, which holds the tumblers, into the barrel. This is before replacing the assembly back in the car. On first glance, one would think it is designed to retain the centre (tumbler section) in place in the barrel, BUT, a) the catch slope faces the wrong way and b) there is no corresponding groove in the barrel in which it could rotate.

[05omegav6]

Sorry, I got the barrels muddled that's the ignition one and not the glove box one

Could it serve to trigger the rear spring? ie you pull the key, which releases that latch, allowing the barrel to pop out slightly

[omegod]

I thought that bit was the part that gets depressed to release the barrel from the column? I broke one trying to refit it as the switch was in the wrong position.

[05omegav6]

I thought that bit was the part that gets depressed to release the barrel from the column? I broke one trying to refit it as the switch was in the wrong position.

That's a metal latch in the cylinder itself works against the large notch to the right of the barrel in Shackengs' pic

[Shackeng]

Sorry, I got the barrels muddled that's the ignition one and not the glove box one

Could it serve to trigger the rear spring? ie you pull the key, which releases that latch, allowing the barrel to pop out slightly

Nope, it couldn't do that, as the only pressure from the spring is radially outwards against a smooth level annular ring in the outer barrel. It must be that as the tumbler cylinder is pushed into  the barrel, the inner, flat, face of the latch comes up against the inner annular step in the barrel, and ensures that when the key is turned, the tumbler section rotates in the correct plane. So that once reassembled the whole unit is held forward in place by the catch which is released on removal, and the little devil we are discussing ensures that a) the tumbler cylinder cannot go further in, but more importantly, b) that it rotates, on turning the key, in the correct plane. However, as I said before, the only argument against this hypothesis is that the same could be achieved with a fixed lug on the barrel

[05omegav6]

Less wear this way a fixed lug might snap/bend causing a jam if forced...

[Shackeng]

True, and the spring loading does allow for wear in that if the rotating part becomes even slightly asymmetric, this would not affect the smooth rotation. By Jove, I think we've got it!!

[05omegav6]

Phew

[Shackeng]

Sorry about that, it was niggling away at me, as I do like to know how things work unless its electrickery.