Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Laz]

Morning all,

 I am looking for some advice. The Omega has been in the garage for 5 weeks now

Quick History -
Car cut out on motorway, everything went, luckily I was in heavy traffic only doing about 5 mph, pulled over, it would not start, left for a couple of minutes and it fired up again, 2 minutes down the road same thing happened.
 Called AA and after a couple of hours messing about the car was put on a flat bed and took to the garage.
 They checked the codes which indicated it was either the crank or cam sensor. They ended up replacing both, still had the issue. They suspected wiring fault, but the electrical engineer confirmed the loom was ok and advised that the ECU may be faulty, so they removed the ECU and sent it off to have diagnostics done, The company who did this confirmed it was 100% OK, so they fitted again and the car would start at all!!. Suspecting the company had botched it they sent it back them, and again they confirmed nothing was wrong with it, so the garage sent it to the dealership who has condemned it saying it is completely screwed.
 They have quoted £1200 for a new one (Just for the part)
The 3rd party who did the checking are taking no responsibilty for this at all saying the part was fine when it left their shop. The garage (Who I have to admit have been very helpful throughout) have said they cannot find an after sales replacement part.
 
Can anyone suggest what I can do here? The garage has said if I can find the required parts they will be happy to fit them and have supplied me the parts numbers required,

ECU -
24426542 *
(These are the other numbers on the ECU)
S0100309
5WK9158
2061117251

Antenna pick up
24445098


Any help or advice here very welcome. If we have to bite the bullet and go through dealership we will be looking at the thick end of 2grand in total  , which would be a killer just before xmas and to be honest is probably more than the car is worth in the current market.

[Kumamoto]

Check ebay...they have one right one for £285.00. Good luck

[Marks DTM Calib]

Not convinced....would love to see the proof of this diagnosis.

What codes are stored..........and did they use a genuine crank and cam sensor

[Laz]

Check ebay...they have one right one for £285.00. Good luck

The part on ebay is 24421815

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BNIB-Vauxhall-Omega-2-2-16V-Petrol-ECU-Y22XE_W0QQitemZ280288886062QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item280288886062&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1301|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

Looks like a Fuel Injector ECU to me.


Mark, I'll check with the garage.

[Radar]

don't know if this will help but i had similar symptoms to yours and had to replace the throttle body.

[Laz]

don't know if this will help but i had similar symptoms to yours and had to replace the throttle body.

Thanks Radar, the mechanic has tried a known working Throttle Body with no success.

[markey mark]

i have a know working 2.2 ecu transponder and key chip here fella  

[Laz]

i have a know working 2.2 ecu transponder and key chip here fella  

Fantastic news, Are you happy to sell it? and if so how much?


The codes from the Main dealer were (hand written) -
P0120 - Throttle Position Sensor
P1550 - Throttle Control
P0700 - SCRIBBLE Gearbox SCRIBBLE
Advise Replace ECU and recheck throttle body

[markey mark]

pm sent laz

[Laz]

pm sent laz

Cheers Mark, you could well of saved the kids from having an imaginary Christmas this year.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Mark, do you have the security code for the immobiliser?

For the above codes, TIS recommends a full re-program and rest.

[Laz]

Mark, do you have the security code for the immobiliser?

For the above codes, TIS recommends a full re-program and rest.

Since the  EPU came back from having the diagnostics done the engine would turn over but not start. Could this simply be an issue with the immobiliser?

[tunnie]

my money is still on crank sensor or the cam sensor!

[markey mark]

Mark, do you have the security code for the immobiliser?

For the above codes, TIS recommends a full re-program and rest.

yes mark i think so should have the car pass somewere  

[Laz]

my money is still on crank sensor or the cam sensor!

I cant tell you how unpleasant things will get for the garage and the dealership if turns out not to be the ECU. As I said its been 5 weeks so far, and the dealership wanted £1200 for a new ECU, which the vauxhall master technician insisted was the fault.

[tunnie]

my money is still on crank sensor or the cam sensor!

I cant tell you how unpleasant things will get for the garage and the dealership if turns out not to be the ECU. As I said its been 5 weeks so far, and the dealership wanted £1200 for a new ECU, which the vauxhall master technician insisted was the fault.

The cam sensor is about the only known weak bit on the 2.2, fairly bullet proof engines.

Do you know if genuine sensors were fitted? I am thinking they may have fitted a 2.0 cam sensor or something daft

[markey mark]

also have a brand new genuine vauxhall cam sensor for a 2.2  

[Laz]

According the garage they were genuine, but anything's possible, at the moment I am pinning my hopes that the garage and the dealership  are correct and the new epu resolves the problem. If it does'nt then its back to square one.  

Sent pm Marky.

[Laz]

Mark, can you give me a shout when they are in post, just so I can let the garage know.

 Many thanks again mate.

[markey mark]

Mark, can you give me a shout when they are in post, just so I can let the garage know.

 Many thanks again mate.

on there way matey posted at 4pm  

[Laz]

Mark, can you give me a shout when they are in post, just so I can let the garage know.

 Many thanks again mate.

on there way matey posted at 4pm  

Fantastic stuff, thanks again.  

[Laz]

Parts received this morning (07:00!!! The postie got a right eyeful of me in our lasses dressing gown)

 The garage is fitting it all today. Just waiting for the call. Feel like an expectant father.

Thanks again Mark

[Laz]

Mark, do you have the security code for the immobiliser?

For the above codes, TIS recommends a full re-program and rest.

yes mark i think so should have the car pass somewere  

Is this something I should be conserned about?

[Laz]

Well, they fitted it, and the car still will not start, will turn over but not fire up. They tried the new throttle body, made no difference.
 We are now exactly were we were 5 weeks ago. I am furious. Not so much with the garage but at the dealership who wanted £1200 for the new ECU that was "definatly "the fault

The codes we are getting now are -
P0120 Throttle Position Sensor
P1120 Pedal Position
P1550 Gen Electronic Throttle

Any help on this would be greatly appriciated.

[TheBoy]

LOL, "defo ecu fault" - sounds like most dealers!

We need more info.  Are these fault codes current, or stored.

Also, do a live data, and see if pedal position and throttle position match over a range of positions.

[TheBoy]

I'm assuming that the EML works, and that its not flashing.

[Laz]

LOL, "defo ecu fault" - sounds like most dealers!

We need more info.  Are these fault codes current, or stored.

Also, do a live data, and see if pedal position and throttle position match over a range of positions.

OK, sorry, I don't know if the faults are current or stored, how can I tell the diference?

How do I do a live data test, or more importantly, how do I tell the mechanic how do a live data test.

I'm assuming that the EML works, and that its not flashing.

I'm sure it is, but I'll check with the garage this morning.

 Its quite a humbling experiance not having a clue what is going on, and I am extremly grateful for the help, advice and indeed parts that I have recieved from this site, I am acutely aware that I can offer little back in reconpense, my trade is data analysis and IT data exchange systems, not something you need on a daily basis, however if anyone needs any advice or help with MS Excel then look no further

[TheBoy]

Their code reader should say if its a current or stored fault.  As to live data, it depends on the capability of their code reader.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Why am I not in the least bit surprised that it didn't fix it!

[TheBoy]

Why am I not in the least bit surprised that it didn't fix it!

Because, unlike garages and most dealers, you have half an ounce of common sense to diagnose before spending your customer's money on the offchance it may fix it.

[Auto Addict]

my money is still on crank sensor or the cam sensor!

Sounds like cam sensor to me.

[Taxi_Driver]

my money is still on crank sensor or the cam sensor!

Sounds like cam sensor to me.

Im not convinced.....a 2.2 will start (altho struggle) with faultly cam or crank sensor.....well mine will with em disconnected......altho one at a time.....never tried it with em both disconnected at the same time  :-/

And as laz last posted the codes.....no mention of cam or crank sensor....so dont think it will be those  :-/

[TheBoy]

My gut reaction with this one is tps or throttle - but I'd love to see live data first...

[feeutfo]

with the throttle body business, is there software related to it? And does the previously mentioned "rest" mean disconnect the battery for 20 mins or whatever? Not implying i think its throttle body with this post, just wondering if the dealer has done the necessary where appropriate to fully eliminate it?
 Also make sure you only pay for whatever repairs the issue. If they want to blindly throw parts at your car thats their choice. You want it repaired not a new ecu ,or whatever else, when there is nothing wrong with the old one. Hope it gets sorted, but dont trust a dealer...ever! Bunch o numps as a rule.

[Marks DTM Calib]

My approachs would be a comprehesive set of live readings and actuator tests.

I would look to actutate the the throttle body with Tceh2 (or similar) and observe its operation....I would also be looking at the feedback readings when moving it etc.

Do check the engine earth points on the inlet manifold

[Badger]

I do sympathise with the original poster of this thread, I am having exactly the same problems. car has been off road for 4 weeks now and I am at my wits end. Every time the car is plugged in to diagnostics I get a list of faults that weren't there before. Spent loads of money on new parts and still car is undriveable. Machine now showing 6 faults, no signal from cam sensor, egr valve low voltage, tps sensor low voltage, road speed sensor, and a couple of others i can't remember. Everything has been replaced, but all faults still there. Dealer is suggesting ecu has failed, however they also noted the alternator was kicking out 13.1 volts and they say it should be more suggesting the electrical/computer system needs more volts to operate correctly. Anybody know if this is corrrect or are they just trying to sell me an alternator?

[Laz]

I got a meeting with the mechanic and the garage boss in the morning. Currently the car is in the local garage that I have used problem free for years. It has been towed to the dealership and as previously stated they wrongly condemned the ECU, and subsequently towed back to the garage.
 So far the list of things to ask are -

Are the codes live or Stored?
Can the code reader perform live tests. If so please run them on the following -
 - See if pedal position and throttle position match over a range of positions-
 - A comprehensive set of live readings and actuator tests, actuating the throttle body and observe its operation.
 - See what the feedback Readings are when moving it etc.
 
Also -
Check the EMU is working and not flashing.
Check the Engine Earth Points on the inlet manifold.

I know when I wanted to have the Cruise Control activated I had to go to the main dealers as the local garage did not have the right equipment so I am not overly confident these guys have the kit to run the live tests, but we will see.

 I'll update as soon as I have further info. Thanks again (good luck to Badger incidently)

[Marks DTM Calib]

I do sympathise with the original poster of this thread, I am having exactly the same problems. car has been off road for 4 weeks now and I am at my wits end. Every time the car is plugged in to diagnostics I get a list of faults that weren't there before. Spent loads of money on new parts and still car is undriveable. Machine now showing 6 faults, no signal from cam sensor, egr valve low voltage, tps sensor low voltage, road speed sensor, and a couple of others i can't remember. Everything has been replaced, but all faults still there. Dealer is suggesting ecu has failed, however they also noted the alternator was kicking out 13.1 volts and they say it should be more suggesting the electrical/computer system needs more volts to operate correctly. Anybody know if this is corrrect or are they just trying to sell me an alternator?

Badger, where in Lincolnshire are you?

[Laz]

The mechanic has said that the errors are as live as can be, although the ignition will turn on,  the engine will not fire up so he is unable to do any live testing.

The EMU is working and not flashing he is going to double check this, and he is going to check the Engine Earth Points on the inlet manifold.

He is also confident that it is not the throttle body as this has had 3 different ones in. (The Original, The dealership tried one, and the one I got from Marky)

He is going to call me this evening with a further update.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The mechanic has said that the errors are as live as can be, although the ignition will turn on,  the engine will not fire up so he is unable to do any live testing.

The EMU is working and not flashing he is going to double check this, and he is going to check the Engine Earth Points on the inlet manifold.

He is also confident that it is not the throttle body as this has had 3 different ones in. (The Original, The dealership tried one, and the one I got from Marky)

He is going to call me this evening with a further update.

I am worried....the live values do not require the engine to be running (i.e. pedal position and throttle position....press teh butterfly with your finger!)

Also, actuator tests do not require the engine to be running.

In addition....error codes state an issue which can be sensor/actuator, cabling or ECU....so changing the thrttle body only proves that it might not be the throttle body  ....it does not rule out cabling etc!

[Laz]

I am worried....the live values do not require the engine to be running (i.e. pedal position and throttle position....press teh butterfly with your finger!)

Also, actuator tests do not require the engine to be running.

In addition....error codes state an issue which can be sensor/actuator, cabling or ECU....so changing the thrttle body only proves that it might not be the throttle body  ....it does not rule out cabling etc!

Yup, Had a feeling the experts were going to say something like that.  
OK, I need to start thinking about a plan B here. I have not given up on the garage yet, as I said he is generally a top bloke who is very reasonably priced, and  I am sure he would eventually fix the car by slowly replacing every part of it.  I could throw the towel in and get it to the local dealership, but in my experience they just see me as a cash point machine and have already mis-diagnosed the ECU, so no confidence there.
 Does anyone know anyone in the North-East that actually knows how to diagnose and fix Omega's?
 Failing that I could pay to get the car towed to practically anywhere I suppose.

[Badger]

Thanks for the good luck message Laz, I am fortunate that I'm in the motor trade and know some really good guys but my car has baffled everybody. Our local vauxhall dealer is a customer of ours and the service manager is very helpful, even sending me parts 'on approval' so it's not costing me a great deal of money but it's bloody inconvenient not having a car. He's going to have a go at sorting it himself so I'll let you know if he finds anything.
 Hi Mark I'm on the North Lincs/South Yorks border, slap bang in the middle of a triangle drawn between Doncaster SLady bitshorpe and Gainsborough.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thanks for the good luck message Laz, I am fortunate that I'm in the motor trade and know some really good guys but my car has baffled everybody. Our local vauxhall dealer is a customer of ours and the service manager is very helpful, even sending me parts 'on approval' so it's not costing me a great deal of money but it's bloody inconvenient not having a car. He's going to have a go at sorting it himself so I'll let you know if he finds anything.
 Hi Mark I'm on the North Lincs/South Yorks border, slap bang in the middle of a triangle drawn between Doncaster SLady bitshorpe and Gainsborough.

Bugger, thats quite a trek for me....I was up that way just over a week ago to!

[Marks DTM Calib]

I do sympathise with the original poster of this thread, I am having exactly the same problems. car has been off road for 4 weeks now and I am at my wits end. Every time the car is plugged in to diagnostics I get a list of faults that weren't there before. Spent loads of money on new parts and still car is undriveable. Machine now showing 6 faults, no signal from cam sensor, egr valve low voltage, tps sensor low voltage, road speed sensor, and a couple of others i can't remember. Everything has been replaced, but all faults still there. Dealer is suggesting ecu has failed, however they also noted the alternator was kicking out 13.1 volts and they say it should be more suggesting the electrical/computer system needs more volts to operate correctly. Anybody know if this is corrrect or are they just trying to sell me an alternator?

13.1 volts is fine for the ecu...it will work down to about 8V!

Can you post (in a new thread) the fault codes?

[Badger]

Will do mate, just as soon as I can find the bit of paper!

[Marks DTM Calib]

As for this little starting issue....

A few things

1) Is there fuel pressure?
2) Is there a spark?

Also, an old trick for these drive by wire setups.

Get a cable tie and insert it the thin end inbetween the throttle butterfly and housing so it holds the butterfly open a bit.

Re-fit the inlet hose with the fat end of the cable tie trapped outside of the hose....(this stops it being ingested)

Now try strating it....if it is a throttle actuator issue then the engine will now start.

[Laz]

I'll pass this onto the Mechanic in the morning, along with the "Do you know what you are doing regarding live tests" query.
 He was supposed to call with update this evening, his boss rang instead saying he was having a busy day, I, being British, said I understood perfectly and it was OK, then put the phone and shouted at our lass.

[Laz]

Turned up at the garage this afternoon to get an update and was plenty surprised to hear her running for the first time in 5 weeks.
 The mechanic looked over the moon.
Apparantly the fault has something to do with the solenoid that is connected to the fuel injectors. He had the yellow cap off it and wrapped in maskin tape but it was running.
 He just needs to find out if its the solenoid or whatever triggers the solenoid.
 The working theory is that he has broken the solenoid when replacing the ECU.

[Laz]

OK, the car is up an running and driving fine, however the throttle errors still won't clear and there is a cam sensor error. I've asked him to run the live tests, I think he understood what I was talking about (Blind leading the blind )

He's not convinced he has the right cam sensor from his supplier. The part number he is being given is -

905-208-50

Can some-one confirm that is the correct part number for a 53 2.2CD Petrol please, if not can you tell me what is the right number.

Error's -
P0120 Throttle Position Sensor
P1120 Pedal Position
P1550 Gen Electronic Throttle


Many thanks

[Marks DTM Calib]

I would not evn contemplate wasting time with anything other than a Vx cam sensor

And I still dont beleave it was the ECU!

There is no solenoid that feeds the fuel injectors!

[markey mark]

i agree genuine cam semsor all the way ! too many variables with pattern sensors  

[Laz]

"I would not evn contemplate wasting time with anything other than a Vx cam sensor"

Been back on to the bloke and asked him to source genuine sensors, should have it fitted on Monday.

There is no solenoid that feeds the fuel injectors!

I get the feeling my garage tolerates rather than welcomes the advice I give them from this site, and when I ask for feedback the answers always sound plausible to the untrained ear, but this is twice I've been told b0llocks by them. I think it may be time to look at a new garage.

And I still dont beleave it was the ECU!

I have the old ECU, transponder and key chips. Can anyone on here test them? If they work they would be welcome to the parts. I'd need some sort of proof they worked, screen shot of the tech 2 for example so I could ram it up the Dealerships ar$e.



I've got a 300 mile round trip to do on Wednesday/Thursday assuming the cam sensor is sorted, do you think I can risk the trip with the throttle issue still un-resolved? It appears to be running fine.

[TheBoy]

I've got a 300 mile round trip to do on Wednesday/Thursday assuming the cam sensor is sorted, do you think I can risk the trip with the throttle issue still un-resolved? It appears to be running fine.

If you are passing one of the Tech2 guardians here (http://theboy.omegaowners.com) on your trip, might be worth detouring for a tech2 session by someone who understands the device.

[Laz]

I've got a 300 mile round trip to do on Wednesday/Thursday assuming the cam sensor is sorted, do you think I can risk the trip with the throttle issue still un-resolved? It appears to be running fine.

If you are passing one of the Tech2 guardians here (http://theboy.omegaowners.com) on your trip, might be worth detouring for a tech2 session by someone who understands the device.

The trip is Durham to Blackpool, the nearest is Nottingham, about 150 miles out of the way... Marks DTM would you be available to check either Wednesday or Thursday next week?

 I take it from your answer you don't think its a life threatening fault?

[Laz]

Got the car back, and its running very well. He eventually changed the cam sensor to genuine vx part and that resolved issue. He still reckons the ECU was the root cause, I'm not convinced but at least I have the car back.
 £399 in total so no where near as much as I was expecting.

 Thanks to everyone on here that has helped with this issue, hope you all had a great Christmas.