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[omega3000]

Almost half the bolts have shered off trying to get heat sheilds off 
No way of getting them out so what is the preferred method of re securing 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Well as per my post a few minutes before I haver the same issue, so I shall follow this thread with interest, should mine get no replies! 

My idea (and I'm waiting on others' opinions) is to drill out the threads, insert small bolts from inside the car (NO idea where they would come out, I'm guessing underneath a seat or somewhere equally inaccessible) use one nut to hold the bolt to the car, then another to hold the shield in place. 

[Kevin Wood]

I would drill out the hole and fit a rivnut.

[omega3000]

Sorry i meant to add that these bolts are for the heat sheilds above the exhaust .. took them
off to gain access to handbrake mechs .  Do the sheilds really need
to go back on 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

At the risk of stating the obvious, car companies tend not to fit things unless they have to for cost/servicing/lengevity/safety/sales reasons, or a blend of all... If they spend money fitting them, then they're probably required.

Last night I found one heat shield was slightly stuck to the stone chip underbody protection, clearly it had been touching, and slightly melted the paint. So I'm guessing they can/do get reasonably warm. So the metal of the floorpan will be able to take the heat, but perhaps the paint won't?

[Webby the Bear]

Personally wouldnt want to remove the heat shields steve.

are you able to drill 'em out and retap the holes? (have a tap n die set if needed)

[Marks DTM Calib]

Drill out and fit a nut insert

[omega3000]

Personally wouldnt want to remove the heat shields steve.

are you able to drill 'em out and retap the holes? (have a tap n die set if needed)

No mate , dont have any tap n die sets  Always been a bit worried about leaving the shields off , just haven't had the capabilities to put back on 

[05omegav6]

The threads that the nuts screw onto are welded to the outside of the floo, not through it...

Self tappers with a smear of sealant or use rivnuts, again with a smear of sealant before fittin the heat shields

[robson]

Are rivnuts a combination of a rivet and a nut how do they work.

[omega3000]

This what you mean ? Where would you get them from and what size 



Or these ?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

The threads that the nuts screw onto are welded to the outside of the floo, not through it...

Self tappers with a smear of sealant or use rivnuts, again with a smear of sealant before fittin the heat shields

Oh, that's interesting... so actually if I were to drill 'through' the thread, which normally would be very tough steel, is actually gong to be going through let's say 1mm of floorpan? That's good news, then. 

[Kevin Wood]

This is the best place, IMHO...

http://www.memfast.co.uk/

But you can get cheap kits of a few fasteners of each size and a tool that would do the job for a one-off:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-633942-Threaded-Rivet-Insert/dp/B000WTJPLO

The mandrels on the cheap tools are very easily broken so be careful when using them to keep the mandrel at 90 degrees to the panel.

[omega3000]

Would they not pop rivet on  Reason i ask is i have a new pop r gun 

Ah scrap that idea , if i pop them will be hard to get the shields off again 

[Kevin Wood]

Would they not pop rivet on 

Yes, but then you have to drill the rivet out and renew it every time you have to remove the panel.

[omega3000]

Would they not pop rivet on 

Yes, but then you have to drill the rivet out and renew it every time you have to remove the panel.

 

Shill have to look at buying a new toy then , could come in handy for some other jobs too 

[05omegav6]

Have Webby get it, then he can fit them for you whilst trying his new toy...

[robson]

Have I got it wrong or wont the compressed nut protrude above the inside  floor level.

[omega3000]

Have I got it wrong or wont the compressed nut protrude above the inside  floor level.

Would have to be a shallow one so as not to pokey through the carpet 

Have Webby get it, then he can fit them for you whilst trying his new toy...

I want a new toy  Are you buying a new toy webby 

[05omegav6]

Have I got it wrong or wont the compressed nut protrude above the inside  floor level.

Indeed it will, but there's nearly an inch of insulation between the floor and carpet...

There is wiring across both front footwells about inline with the front of the centre air vents

Rest of the floor is pretty clear

[omega3000]

Mite take the carpets out to make sure its sealed from the top . I remember mr al saying its a 5 minute job to take the carpets out anyway 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Have I got it wrong or wont the compressed nut protrude above the inside  floor level.

Indeed it will, but there's nearly an inch of insulation between the floor and carpet...

There is wiring across both front footwells about inline with the front of the centre air vents

Rest of the floor is pretty clear

Useful to know... if I go down the straightforward nut n bolt idea of mine, this will affect things... 

Also assumed the carpets coming out was a bit of a faff/pig of a job, so thanks   

[terry paget]

My policy is to remove them as carefully and gently as possible - spray with Plusgas first, then applying gentle force with a full 10mm hexagon, turning a bit anticlockwise, spray with more Plusgas, a bit clockwise, then anticlockwise again. This will save some of them. The ones that break off I drill a hole nearby and use stainless steel self tappers. In some cases the heatshields are rusty and the old holes useless anyway.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Yup, I managed to save two that way, going as carefully as possible, but still lost one last night. Personally I'm thinking if I'm going to do a 'mod' with rivnuts or whatever, I might as well just rip the things off, let them shear, then do the mod. Whatever I do, it'll be in stainless steel!!

[cem_devecioglu]

Almost half the bolts have shered off trying to get heat sheilds off 
No way of getting them out so what is the preferred method of re securing 

today we had the same luck Emd.. when changing the rear shocks for clit one of them sheared ..


result : 3 hours of drilling and swearing


but drilling must be correcty centered.. and continue wth increasing numbers.. stop frequently and cool the drilling bit and drill slowly..  and tapping  in between also helps

[omega3000]

If the heat shields have holed slightly i gather that using a washer to bridge the hole is acceptable ?

[Nick W]

If the heat shields have holed slightly i gather that using a washer to bridge the hole is acceptable ?

Yes.

I'll second Kevin's recommendation for the Memfast rivnut tool; it's excellent. as for the rivnuts themselves, any local industrial fastener  supplier will have them over the counter for pennies each. A hundred M6 will sort out most car jobs.

[omega3000]

Re - the Silverline rivet insert tool , there is a quote on the page from someone who has bought one :

It is VERY important that the holes drilled for the rivets, are well cleaned up after drilling and have no burrs front or back. Make sure your holes are a very close fit before you start and, before inserting, put a dab of Loctite on the rivet and under the head.

Only way to do this heat shield job then would be to remove the carpets and clean the burrs up 

[05omegav6]

And

[omega3000]

And

Just saying  So folk can see how to do it proper like ... is there a guide on how to remove carpets 

[Nick W]

Re - the Silverline rivet insert tool , there is a quote on the page from someone who has bought one :

It is VERY important that the holes drilled for the rivets, are well cleaned up after drilling and have no burrs front or back. Make sure your holes are a very close fit before you start and, before inserting, put a dab of Loctite on the rivet and under the head.

Only way to do this heat shield job then would be to remove the carpets and clean the burrs up 

You should clean the burrs off both sides of the hole no matter what type of fastener you use. But that often doesn't happen due to poor access and/or laziness.

[omega3000]

Re - the Silverline rivet insert tool , there is a quote on the page from someone who has bought one :

It is VERY important that the holes drilled for the rivets, are well cleaned up after drilling and have no burrs front or back. Make sure your holes are a very close fit before you start and, before inserting, put a dab of Loctite on the rivet and under the head.

Only way to do this heat shield job then would be to remove the carpets and clean the burrs up 

You should clean the burrs off both sides of the hole no matter what type of fastener you use. But that often doesn't happen due to poor access and/or laziness.

Ok cheers for that Nick 

[omega3000]

Here is a video , great to see how this will work before buying the tool 

Insert tool

[omegod]

I always bin them when they fall off with no ill effects  stupid bloody rattle devices

[omega3000]

I always bin them when they fall off with no ill effects  stupid bloody rattle devices

Mine were took off just before the mot , then the fixings just snapped off  Most were corroded , probably saved about 3-4 ... ive noted how warm its beginning to get inside the car 

[omegod]

I always bin them when they fall off with no ill effects  stupid bloody rattle devices

Mine were took off just before the mot , then the fixings just snapped off  Most were corroded , probably saved about 3-4 ... ive noted how warm its beginning to get inside the car 

Ahh well winters coming so free heat 

[omega3000]

I always bin them when they fall off with no ill effects  stupid bloody rattle devices

Mine were took off just before the mot , then the fixings just snapped off  Most were corroded , probably saved about 3-4 ... ive noted how warm its beginning to get inside the car 

Ahh well winters coming so free heat 

Just as well with no carpets  Hope i dont find any unwanted holes 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Managed to discover last night that a couple of the holes when drilled will come up in the front footwells, hoping that none will  require a seat taking out, as it's that extra time/faff I don't have or need!

[05omegav6]

See my impromptu guide for removing the carpets...

To add, for the front carpet, seats full back, once the rear inboard bolt it either removed or fully home. If left proud when the seat is moved back, then your basically frucked.

There's a plastic rivet under the seat which clips the carpet to the rear footwell air ducts. Carpet pulls off this. Remove/refit as per rear.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Will be posting a more detailed update in my little thread in General Car Chat, but just to say it works! I had to take the seat out, no real problem, thanks for the mini guide. Made easier by being a PFL, no side airbags to worry about. The stainless nuts bolts works a treat. Can't claim it wasnt a learning curve, and it certainly wasn't quick. But I've got four threads done, with another four to do Tuesday after work. Touch wood should go a fair bit quicker now I know what to do :-) Then heatshields back on, and away we go!

[omega3000]

Will be posting a more detailed update in my little thread in General Car Chat, but just to say it works! I had to take the seat out, no real problem, thanks for the mini guide. Made easier by being a PFL, no side airbags to worry about. The stainless nuts bolts works a treat. Can't claim it wasnt a learning curve, and it certainly wasn't quick. But I've got four threads done, with another four to do Tuesday after work. Touch wood should go a fair bit quicker now I know what to do :-) Then heatshields back on, and away we go!

  Thats a bummer , guess its easier access though 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Yeah. Without wanting to get too bogged down in writing a 'how to' here, and duplicating it on my own thread about the resurrection of the 'Old-Mega', and then actually writing another for the How To section. It's basically vital to take them out. That said, it's only 4 torx (T40) and a couple of plugs. (+ obvious precautions of airbags etc.. but I think we're all well-versed in that) It gives you a good chance to hoover out all the junk, plus an insight into the construction of the car. 

[omega3000]

So , ive not seen any guide as to front seat removal ..i have searched  Do you just disconnect the battery to avoid air bag deployment 

[05omegav6]

So , ive not seen any guide as to front seat removal ..i have searched  Do you just disconnect the battery to avoid air bag deployment 

Seat all the way back.
Remove front bolts.
Seat all the way forward.
Unplug electrickery.
Remove rear bolts.
Remove seat.

Refit in reverse.

You'll only blow shit up if you either trap a wire with the seat plugged in on turn the ignition on whilst the seat is unplugged or you un/plug the seat with the ignition on

If seat runners are manual then unplug before you start

[omega3000]

Thanks for that Al 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Otherwise on tipping the seat backwards to free it, it goes all the way, ripping the wires from the plug..

Not as though this happened to me... not at all. Of course not. I didn't do that.

Why you all looking at me that way?!?!? 

[05omegav6]

Me saying nuffink

Removing the sill trim frees up a load of room if feeling nervous... But if you lift the long tab on the front of the plug bracket, then it simply slides off allowing wiggle room for unplugging

Be careful when putting the seat back in that you don't crush the plugs.

[Seth]

Flanged 6mm x 1cm self-tapping bolts will also suffice.

Summat like:



Pack a few washers (or an 8mm nut) between the bolt head and shield to lessen the protrusion into the carpet underlay.
Job done!

 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Hi. Self tappers are by far the easiest and quickest option. My heat shields were held on with a combination of the original nuts and self-tappers. The self-tappers were fitted my my father who was the previous owner. The inevitable rust, however, was about an inch in diameter (self-tappers been on for several years) when I came to flap-wheeling the rust off. It enlarged the hole a fair few mm, too.

I'm not saying self-tappers are wrong, far from it. Downside is they are a vunerable point for rust. Equally the downside to my method is time and effort involved and things like seats etc have to be taken out, unless you want to drill through your carpets! 

[Seth]

I'm not saying self-tappers are wrong, far from it. Downside is they are a vunerable point for rust. Equally the downside to my method is time and effort involved and things like seats etc have to be taken out, unless you want to drill through your carpets! 

Not if you:

Pack a few washers (or an 8mm nut) between the bolt head and shield to lessen the protrusion into the carpet underlay.

Could also fit a penny washer:



against the heatshield

[Diamond Black Geezer]

This is true. Though if there is me and a power tool within feet of each other it's likely that some form of property, delicate item, heirloom, or child will probably get damaged accidentally! 

In any event, in my case I need the carpets up to install the bolt from above and also smear everything with seam sealer.  If you'd seent the amount of rust that had encroached into the floorpan from the self-tappers used previously you'd be buying shares in seam sealer like me!

[omega3000]

I take it the metal to secure to is very thin but thick enough to hold a self tapper tightly  So many options now 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Most of my holes would have been fine to allow a self-tapper, going into decent thick (well, about 1mm) of steel. However as mentioned a couple of posts ago, once I ground off the rust from a previous self-tapper's location, the steel was paper-thin at the hole. In this case a nut 'n' bolt with large washer either side was the perfect, secure solution.