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[Doctor Gollum]

Be more resources to go around afterwards

Good for the economy too.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just realised in my latest post I stated 1.4 trillion as the population of China.  Of course, as I stated prior to this it is 1.4 billion!! A huge figure but not as huge as the former one!

My mind got carried away with the $22 trillion USA debt!

[Varche]

Guessing you haven't watched the programme then.

In a nutshell you are saying so long as they are not using their military might against other countries ( Scarborough shoal excepted ) they can incarcerate and maltreat around an estimated two million humans with impunity.

Does that sound familiar.........

But Varche, and others, I understand your concerns, but what do you want the West, or anyone else, to do about it? Do you want us to go to war over what the Chinese are doing to THEIR people - yes I did watch the programme thank you all!! - but obviously, unlike others on here I know we can do sweet FA about it. Just like we couldn't with Nazi Germany in the 1930's. It was only when Poland was invaded did we, without the USA, declare war. But, as I have repeatedly said, there is yet to be any evidence of China wishing to invade other countries, let alone take on the US.

So does everyone think we should commit to a war with 1.4 million people, when THE key Western player, Trump and the USA obviously do not want to support such a move - remember, in my post I mentioned the USA debt, overall, with Cina is $22 trillion - when all they WILL do is fight a battle over tariffs. Do you really think China will listen to Britain and Europe over the abuse of those CHINESE people featured in the documentary that has ruffled all your feathers so much. What the hell do you think WE can do about that, an internal matter, in a huge country with a massive military and political system?

Stop buying Chinese products? Well you can try, but as we seem to now be totally reliant on so many of the products we buy coming from China, with no alternatives available from our now non-existent factories that, with Germany and the US, once produced them many years ago, where is that going to lead us? The truth is the majority of people in this country, Europe, and the USA, let alone elsewhere, give not a damn about 2 million Chinese - well actually far more Chinese live under full state control - out of the 1.4 trillion.  Frankly, that size of population must find their own way to the type of democracy and freedoms we enjoy, as I clearly stated before. We cannot dictate that progress no more than other countries could when Britains were fighting for the rights we have today. Other countries cannot get involved, and certainly they must not do with China!

You know,  it was only a short time ago that a massive amount of British citizens complained, with protests, about the West getting involved in Iraq!! What good did that do, either for us, in the West, or the people of Iraq?  Now, it seems to me, the same people will get all heated up about native Chinese people, in their country, and expect our leaders to "do something"!!

At the moment us Brits cannot even reach an agreement with Europe, let alone organising action of some type, who knows what, against China. Even the USA cannot get Iran to back down with sanctions over their nuclear missle programme, nor will they ever win a tariff war with China!

So, beat your chests men, call for whatever you want from China, but you are going to be very disappointed. Of course we could always go for WW3 with China, Russia and Iran (an Axis!!) and kill off hundreds of millions of human beings!!

Do you want to gamble and go for that?

We will have to agree to disagree. War as you seem to be suggesting as the only viable solution is not the answer.  Dialogue . Shaming, reasoning, perhaps sanctions. I am afraid countries are all too happy to let atrocities go on in other countries.   This not giving a damn about what other countries are doing to their people, the planet etc is very yesterday.

PS Chow Mein is back on the menu only because it doesn't come from China but Iceland!

[Lizzie Zoom]

We will have to agree to disagree. War as you seem to be suggesting as the only viable solution is not the answer. Dialogue . Shaming, reasoning, perhaps sanctions. I am afraid countries are all too happy to let atrocities go on in other countries.   This not giving a damn about what other countries are doing to their people, the planet etc is very yesterday.

PS Chow Mein is back on the menu only because it doesn't come from China but Iceland!

[Lizzie Zoom]

No Varche, that is the last thing I am suggesting. Indeed I made very clear what the terrible consequences of us interfering in Chinese business could be. I am merely pointing out that if so many people "something should be done" about China treating a group, or even more of THEIR citizens as shown in the documentary, very badly there is nor a lot we can do about it. The Chinese authorities are, and have always been their own people, as I explained in my first post, for CENTURIES, controlling THEIR masses in various political ways within the favoured doctrine of the day.

"Dialogue, shaming, reasoning, perhaps sanctions" - you missed out one word, Diplomacy - in China's case have never worked to date because the country is too damned big and now very powerful. The West is now seen as a mere irritant - as I stated before they have always been content with isolation in the past from the West, apart from their highly successful trading- and now they see the West declining in power. Indeed, we are seeing the dominant World power going from the recent historic past of Europe then USA, back to the East with China at it's financial trading heart, and the Chinese know it.

So, without explaining everything again, it is only the Chinese people themselves that can change China from within, not any of us out here no matter how sick and disgusted that programme made us feel. Just remember that the Soviet Union, especially during the Stalin years, did far worse to it's people's than China is currently, with millions (exact or even approximate figures are hard to establish) being killed for political reasons, but that was within their territories, and the West could do nothing. Then the Soviet Union's Red Army 'saved the day' by way of defensive, then offensive action, against an invading German army, pushing them all the way back to Nazi Berlin and they effectively saved the West's arses.  So out of much evil came good, with even Russia now being very different than Stalin's era, although it is still not good for all too many of it's people. What are we doing for them, who are state controlled, monitored, ill treated, 24/7?

Nothing, because as in China's case we cannot do anything but chatter away at the unfairness of it all and make some very weak gestures in protest.