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Author Topic: An irish bureaucratic nightmare  (Read 2398 times)

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Olympia5776

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An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« on: 03 May 2018, 22:51:04 »

Well after all the concerns I had over the brakes on my estate on the general help section I took the car for it's NCT ( MOT ) and it passed all the checks for a pass with flying colours  :y
However ....... the tester handed me a fail sheet .
Reason written in small print at the bottom of the sheet under visual fail was " Incorrect VIN " .
So we enter into a rather odd conversation about this issue as the car has been tested 12 times in this agency run government station and the issue has never occured or been raised before . Unlike UK here all cars have to be tested in one of these stations which are staffed and run by the most sullen , unapproachable and uncommunicative people you will find.
The reply I get is " ah , there's a new system now".
It seems that if there is any discrepancy then a fail cert is issued and the burden of proof and the effort involved in rectifying the situation falls upon the owner.
The tester handed me a sheet that I had to post , no e mail or telephone call centre  snail mail only  >:(, to the Revenue Commissioners on the other side of the country.
This sheet has a section in that the tester is asked , in his opinion , if the VIN on the car is genuine to which he scrawled a 6 year old child like Y for yes. He said that he had no doubt that the car was genuine and that the problem was the VIN registered on the National Database but the problem was mine .
So here we are in this simple somewhat backward little country. I have a car that has been registered 14 years ago in this country , tested in the same station 12 times , confirmed by the government approved tester that the VIN is genuine and correct  and untampered with and that the problem ( which he refused to actually identify other than being incorrect ) was not on the car but on the national big brother database.
In order to plead my case I have to submit my registration document ( leaving me at their mercy ) , a begging letter carefully suggesting , to avoid incurring the wrath of some cretinous uncivil servant ,that the problem may be at their end and the said sheet from the tester along with printed , signed and dated photos showing the virgin steel around the floor stamp and untouched rivits on the dash top plate showing the VIN.
The "request"  letter states in a rather overbearing and mildly threatening manner that any request to amend the database will take up to 21 days but possibly longer if the investigation requires it.
So through no fault of my own I have a car that is passed as perfectly roadworthy but cannot be used due to an error in a database somewhere in the bureaucratic world of the irish civil service. In this country no NCT = no insurance cover whilst on the road.
I started a thread on an irish car site expecting to be told that it'll be cleared up in no time  and was horrified at the stories /replies from many of the regular members re their dealings with the revenue commissioners.
It would seem their intransigence and unwillingness in accepting blame is legendary.
It would seem that I am living in a country  blessed with a guilty until self proved innocent doctrine staffed by civil servants ,whom it seems ,cannot read and then correctly write 17 digits in a row.
Thank goodness that we've pushed the button on the two year plan to move to South of France and away from this miserable ,wet and simple little  country.

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iansoutham

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2018, 04:50:11 »

Sounds like a way to get older cars off the road to me.

Prove the “error” has not been put in recently.

I can understand him not telling you what the error was though, to stop people knowing how to bypass the criteria for testing and prevent adapting the number.
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STEMO

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #2 on: 04 May 2018, 06:30:46 »

That would frustrate the f**k out of me. If I have a problem with a government agency I need to be on the phone, ranting stating my point of view and, in a roundabout way, telling them what a bunch of fickin idiots they are. In your position, I would be having a breakdown  ;D

I think Eire would be a good place for retired people.......read into that what you will.
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Varche

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #3 on: 04 May 2018, 07:46:19 »

That sounds typical of the problems we encounter regularly in Spain. Everything ticks along nicely until something comes up outside normal parameters. Then a sort of paralysis sets in. In old fashioned In Box terms (for those that can remember such things) your problem is buried in someones very real pending tray. The official concerned has a job for life with no meaningful targets.

I haven't any experience of French bureaucracy but you may well find it is the same. At least it will be warmer and drier. :y
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #4 on: 05 May 2018, 08:44:19 »

Don, while I understand and sympathise with your frustration at the backward culture and systems in rural Ireland, there is nothing on Gods green earth that would make me consider moving from Kerry to French France.
I honestly believe you will be going from the frying pan into the fire. You do know the place is full of French people ? !  :o ;)
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Olympia5776

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #5 on: 10 May 2018, 12:30:56 »

Here , you'll love this .

Sent all the relevent info off to the rather intimidatingly named Revenue Commissioners via costly registered post and waited until this morning to call and see if I could get any update .
Sat through 4 minutes of shit that is called the Irish language before we get to the selection in English that 98.2 % of the irish use . Made my selection and got through to a friendly but resolute lady in the vehicle details section.
I explained my plight and asked if she could shed any light on my predicament and perhaps give me a ref. number that I could use for quick and easy updates when speaking to the Central Vehicle Office .
She then tells me that the CVO are not taking any calls due to a large backlog of post and that there was nothing more she could do for me . So I turn on the charm and suggest that there must be some hotline that could at least dispel my fears that my letter is sitting in the hanger where the temple of doom is stored ......
Nope it seems that the said commissioners are shored up and have lifted the drawbridge at their castle so you can all opps off !
She then offers me one small glimmer of hope ,which in hindsight was spoken with too much clarity and step by step accuracy to have been spontanious .
If I go to the Revenue on Line Service ( ROS ) and register and drill down through seven sections ( I carefully wrote down her instructions much to her annoyance ) there is an obscure way of submitting an enquiry to the CVO re my nightmare and that they may , or may not , reply direct to me . Yeah . ::)
Anyway , onto the site I go and complete step one of three in registering . I give them all my details inc. landline , mobile and e mail ( twice in case I make a mistake ) hit the submit to go to step 2 and a window pops up telling me that they will POST to me my pin required to proceed to step 2 .
WTF kind of Lady bits ry is this that operates like it was 1916.
So here we are in that the CVO makes a mistake in their database , they then refuse to allow me to use my car on the road by issuing an nct (mot) failure based on their mistake , insist that my initial communication to them is by post and then bluntly refuse to speak with me due to being too busy due to a huge backlog of post , and then conveniently add to the misery by insisting on posting out to me the required pin to allow me to send them a dubious and somewhat untargeted enquiry.
The irish deserve the irish .
tbc........
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STEMO

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #6 on: 10 May 2018, 12:37:16 »

Sounds like our beloved government gateway, it's just another way to verify your address. The code usually arrives in 3-4 days over here, and it's pretty straightforward from there. But that is over here........... :-\  ;D
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STEMO

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #7 on: 10 May 2018, 12:39:40 »

Oh...and before you get to where you want to be on the website, you will have given them every bit of information about yourself that is possible to know. And they will keep it........for ever.
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Gaffers

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #8 on: 10 May 2018, 12:55:25 »

It sounds like the ordeal you are going through is the perfect warm-up before you deal with French bureaucracy.  Just wait ::)
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Rods2

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #9 on: 10 May 2018, 16:28:18 »

You must be feeling like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtbQUaC9mE
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #10 on: 10 May 2018, 17:19:43 »

It sounds like the ordeal you are going through is the perfect warm-up before you deal with French bureaucracy.  Just wait ::)

I did try and warn him. I have an ex sister who lives in France, and before I excommunicated her, I heard some horror stories about French bureaucracy.  ::)
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Gaffers

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #11 on: 10 May 2018, 17:24:04 »

It sounds like the ordeal you are going through is the perfect warm-up before you deal with French bureaucracy.  Just wait ::)

I did try and warn him. I have an ex sister who lives in France, and before I excommunicated her, I heard some horror stories about French bureaucracy.  ::)

I lived it for 5 years.  Importing a UK car was difficult as every visit I made to the Prefecture resulted in a list of different things to get done.  I would do them go back and then be told that they were wrong and that I needed to do a different list.  It took a long time and a lot of my annual leave to get it done.

And that's just the car....
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Olympia5776

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #12 on: 10 May 2018, 22:32:52 »

It sounds like the ordeal you are going through is the perfect warm-up before you deal with French bureaucracy.  Just wait ::)

I did try and warn him. I have an ex sister who lives in France, and before I excommunicated her, I heard some horror stories about French bureaucracy.  ::)

Your probably right Albs but to tell you the truth I'm sick of this simple country run by simple people  . Each day there are more revelations on any number of issues highlighting the corruption ,deceit and grasping greed of the great and good who lord it over the masses. The irish will never admit to an error or a mistake and will argue black is white ad nauseum . The advantages and attractions of living here that existed when we moved over have all been eroded by the EU mandarins to whom the irish tribal politicians pander to . The constant reminiscing over the events of 100 years ago is tedious and the irish aversion to anything British because of the past is suffocating.
The weather's shite too ....
I brought a lot of money to this country when we moved here buying land and building our home and as soon as the market recovers after the thievery of ten years ago and I can get it all back again ,I go east ....
« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 22:37:48 by Olympia5776 »
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Rods2

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #13 on: 10 May 2018, 23:58:37 »

I've got a house in France and when I bought in 1991, I used to be over there one or two weekends a month as I could usually get some sort of cheap ferry deal, but once the booze cruises ended and the ferry price rocketed, then it was only a few times a year. I love the country, culture, food and the down to earth people and made quite a few friends, bureaucracy was a pain and I dislike their politicians and tax rates even more, so could never live over there, but I know quite a few English that do very happily.

If I sold my house and bought another one it would be much further south and near an airport with flights from the UK.
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Drewomega

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Re: An irish bureaucratic nightmare
« Reply #14 on: 11 May 2018, 09:32:51 »

RE: cars ITV (MOT) I took mine to the ITV station last November in Inca Mallorca. Passed through the garage (you drive through yourself here) and got through to the other end. The guy hands the docket to the other guy who issues the sticker you put on the windscreen if you pass. No sticker! Guy says your number plate has the wrong number! What!!! I have had the car since new. Anyway long story short, €40 later for a new plate which you cannot make up yourself, you have to go through a government system. Doh!!!  >:( >:( You could not make it up.
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