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[LouisCorney]

...http://www.irmscher-bits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=50_51&products_id=148

[Andy B]

...http://www.irmscher-bits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=50_51&products_id=148

Wait till you get in a nice long traffic jam!   You'll be glad there's only a 'go' pedal & 'stop' pedal, with non of the 'down clutch ...  upclutch' etc etc  

[bob.dent]

...http://www.irmscher-bits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=50_51&products_id=148

Wait till you get in a nice long traffic jam!   You'll be glad there's only a 'go' pedal & 'stop' pedal, with non of the 'down clutch ...  upclutch' etc etc  

Ah, but when you get out on the open road, a manual makes all that clutch pumping worthwhile - really makes the V6 sing when going through the gears using near max revs
 [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[Big Rod]

And what's stopping you doing that with an auto Bob?

I'd have an auto over a manual any day, but must admit, I wouldn't mind both, (selectotronic or whatever it's called!), for those odd occassions I go for it through some twisties!

[Marks DTM Calib]

I sometimes drive the Omega quite hard and the manual is much more controllable through the corners as you can lift to gain a little engine breaking and the dam think doesn't change up.

I can get drive the 2.5 faster through corners than the 3.0 estate which has sports suspension and a bigger engine!

[bob.dent]

And what's stopping you doing that with an auto Bob?

I'd have an auto over a manual any day, but must admit, I wouldn't mind both, (selectotronic or whatever it's called!), for those odd occassions I go for it through some twisties!

I just think the car is more controllable with a manual box - you can really change up or down through the gears when you want to, not the car. I also think you can coax a bit more speed from a manual. I have owned auto's in the past and while they are great in heavy traffic, I prefer manual for sheer driving pleasure. 8-) From my recollections of driving auto's, they always want to change gear before you hit the red line

Could this be the start of a manual versus auto debate!!

[Marks DTM Calib]

I think that because

a) I own an auto
b) I own a manual to
c) I am a mod
d) I do like to drive hard on rare occasions

That clearly I have the controling vote...!

[bob.dent]

That clearly I have the controling vote...!

I take it that manuals win then

[Big Rod]

There goes the democracy! OOops! Did I say that out loud? I meant neighbourhood!!  

[bob.dent]

There goes the democracy! OOops! Did I say that out loud? I meant neighbourhood!!  

Rod....does this mean you're gonna give up without an argument!!??

[Big Rod]

Yep, I think everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Thing is, I know mine's the right one!!!  

[TheBoy]

Manual definately more controllable - gives that extra variable a driver can use mid corner to control the car.  Selectronic and similar systems still do not give that level of control.

Saying that, I still prefer an auto in a big car...

[bob.dent]

Yep, I think everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Thing is, I know mine's the right one!!!  

I guess it's time to start a manual v auto poll thread then

[Auto Addict]

Manual definately more controllable - gives that extra variable a driver can use mid corner to control the car.  Selectronic and similar systems still do not give that level of control.

Saying that, I still prefer an auto in a big car...

Auto leaves both hands on the steering wheel, where they should be.

[Andy B]

And what's stopping you doing that with an auto Bob?

I'd have an auto over a manual any day, but must admit, I wouldn't mind both, (selectotronic or whatever it's called!), for those odd occassions I go for it through some twisties!

I suppose it must depend on what the senso/tip/step/etc tronic box is based on. Some are auto's with manual control and some are manual boxes underneath with auto clutches, but the Mitubushi FTO that my brother had didn't really change gear any faster while in manual than if you'd selected 3 or 2 on your 'normal' auto. Once the novelty had worn off he rarely selected anything but ordinary drive.

[Taxi_Driver]

Manual definately more controllable - gives that extra variable a driver can use mid corner to control the car.  Selectronic and similar systems still do not give that level of control.

...

I agree.....both my current merc and a previous one has/had tiptronic on the autobox.....when playing with the tiptronic....i used to think....'come on... i asked you to change gears seconds ago!' And that few seconds could mean you are around the corner by the time it did change.

[Taxi_Driver]

I sometimes drive the Omega quite hard and the manual is much more controllable through the corners as you can lift to gain a little engine breaking and the dam think doesn't change up.

I can get drive the 2.5 faster through corners than the 3.0 estate which has sports suspension and a bigger engine!

What happens when in sports mode or you use the shift to make it hold a gear......can you throw it round corners faster then?

[Auto Addict]

I sometimes drive the Omega quite hard and the manual is much more controllable through the corners as you can lift to gain a little engine breaking and the dam think doesn't change up.

I can get drive the 2.5 faster through corners than the 3.0 estate which has sports suspension and a bigger engine!

What happens when in sports mode or you use the shift to make it hold a gear......can you throw it round corners faster then?

Why don't you try it TD?

[Auto Addict]

I think that because

a) I own an auto
b) I own a manual to
c) I am a mod
d) I do like to drive hard on rare occasions

That clearly I have the controling vote...!

There you are then.......

[Marks DTM Calib]

I sometimes drive the Omega quite hard and the manual is much more controllable through the corners as you can lift to gain a little engine breaking and the dam think doesn't change up.

I can get drive the 2.5 faster through corners than the 3.0 estate which has sports suspension and a bigger engine!

What happens when in sports mode or you use the shift to make it hold a gear......can you throw it round corners faster then?

Neither mode truely locks the gear so no....

I must admit that on the manual I use 3-2-1 quite a bit to gain the economy of engine breaking and ECU overrun.

[Paul M]

Funnily enough I just got back from the US... as many of you will know it's near impossible to hire a manual car there. I got the latest 2006 Mustang with 5-speed sludgebox... 4.0 litre engine, god knows how much power the torque converter was gobbling up cos it felt like a 2.0 litre. But that wasn't too much of a problem, just had to drive with the pedal on the carpet to get any grunt.

When trying to navigate twisty roads (yes they do exist in the US, you find some mountain paths that are *really* twisty!) this thing was near hopeless. See a sharp bend approaching in a manual, you get into a low gear before entering it to both help control the car's speed round the bend and also ensure there's plenty of power available on the way out. Enter the slush-o-matic, as you enter the bend you're off the gas, so the gearbox sits in a high gear as you obviously don't need any power. Great, no engine braking all the way through the bend. Try to accelerate back out... no power... bit more gas... no power, the gearbox is finishing off a coffee before shifting down... bit more gas... finally it shifts down a few gears, oh crap too much gas now! OK you survive that one, drive 50 metres along the straight to the next tight bend and repeat the whole thing

For someone who actually enjoys driving, particularly thorugh challenging and involving roads, sludgeboxes just ruin the whole experience. Apart from the whole "wrong gear" syndrome, the rubber-band effect of the torque converter just makes the reaction of the throttle unpredictable at the limits. I've never tried an SMG or similar, but those are proper manual gearboxes with a normal friction clutch that are hydraulically activated (and also change bloody quickly) so I'd expect it's a far better experience, pretty similar to a normal manual with a bit less effort.

I've tried the BMW "steptronic" (more aptly titled sludgetronic) and that's almost as bad... still got that horrid torque converter and the response to the buttons is crap. It would maybe make driving through twisty roads better as you could select the appropriate gear before entering the bend, but it would always feel like an auto with all the associated drawbacks. I do fancy trying an SMG sometime, not convinced I'll prefer it over a full-blown manual but it's got to be better than a slushy.

BTW I do a reasonable amount of driving in traffic, and while the clutch can become a PITA in really slow stop-start stuff, it's a very small price to pay for not feeling like a passenger once you're actually moving.

My "2 cents" - can anyone guess which way I voted in the poll?  

[LouisCorney]

Look what I've started....  

[bob.dent]

Look what I've started....  

You certainly did Louis, thats why I thought we better put it to the polls

[Kev]

Maybe i'm getting old, i like my auto.

I only tend do drive fast on the motorway anyway, so the bend thing isn't really an issue. Of course when i say fast, i mean 70.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Another point, my dodgy wishbones probably wouldn't be too happy if i started throwing it into bends. Need to get them changed.  

[Taxi_Driver]

I sometimes drive the Omega quite hard and the manual is much more controllable through the corners as you can lift to gain a little engine breaking and the dam think doesn't change up.

I can get drive the 2.5 faster through corners than the 3.0 estate which has sports suspension and a bigger engine!

What happens when in sports mode or you use the shift to make it hold a gear......can you throw it round corners faster then?

Why don't you try it TD?

Dont be silly AA  ....mines a 2.2, i need a runway to get any kind of speed up  

[Jay w]

in the Omega i would have auto over manual every day, purely because, for me, the miggy is a cruiser not a racer.

however my project car is manual and will be driven like it is stolen, there is lot more control to be gained from selecing the gears yourself.
i have used the sports mode button before now to cause the gearbox to act as a brake, it kickes it down a gear and with your foot off the throttle the gearbox is braking for you....

[Andy B]

..... i have used the sports mode button before now to cause the gearbox to act as a brake, it kickes it down a gear and with your foot off the throttle the gearbox is braking for you....

But ... annoyingly the Omega's auto will change out of 4th lock-up by itself when you're going down hill!   I could do that if I wanted to!

[hotel21]

Never driven an Omega auto, so don't really know, but any other autos I've driven - both enthusiastically and in Miss Daisy mode - I have used the hold option in the change mechanism.  

1/2/3/D hold prevents kickdown when partway around a twisty and unsettling the car or having the VIP in the back spilling the Gin, but I much prefer manuals.  To me, it allows you to drive the car as you want, not how the designers want you to, ensuring that efficiency limits on the mechanicals are maintained.  

My tuppence worth.

Broocie

[hotel21]

..... i have used the sports mode button before now to cause the gearbox to act as a brake, it kickes it down a gear and with your foot off the throttle the gearbox is braking for you....

But ... annoyingly the Omega's auto will change out of 4th lock-up by itself when you're going down hill!   I could do that if I wanted to!

In that case, you must be travelling at one helluva lick downhill!!  Should be in 2 or 3 hold to get the braking!!

[Andy B]

.....
In that case, you must be travelling at one helluva lick downhill!!  Should be in 2 or 3 hold to get the braking!!

err! ...... about 50 mph exactly to avoid my picture being taken by any of the 3 speed cameras on the Elland by-pass. Gearbox stays in 4th but comes out of lock-up on the hill but then locks up towards the bottom.

[Phil]

I must admit that on the manual I use 3-2-1 quite a bit to gain the economy of engine breaking and ECU overrun.

Shouldnt that say AUTO???

Or do you actually stuff it in 1st gear alot??

I got the auto MV6 because the A13 in the morning and evenings  is a nightmare on the left leg!!

It also means i can eat my Ginsters pie and not have to worry about waggling the stick and throwing minced beak, eyes and balls all over the inside of the car  

[The Barge Captain]

OK, so by pulling the auto stick backwards you can generate some engine braking, but is there a sensible limit to max revs and time you should do this for before something breaks?

[Andy B]

OK, so by pulling the auto stick backwards you can generate some engine braking, but is there a sensible limit to max revs and time you should do this for before something breaks?

Theory is that you can select 1st eg at what ever daft speed you want to   but ..... the gearbox doesn't actually select that gear untill the car is going slowly enough. I've never tested it though!  :-/

[Tony H]

OK, so by pulling the auto stick backwards you can generate some engine braking, but is there a sensible limit to max revs and time you should do this for before something breaks?

Theory is that you can select 1st eg at what ever daft speed you want to   but ..... the gearbox doesn't actually select that gear untill the car is going slowly enough. I've never tested it though!  :-/

Spot on Andy the gearbox will only allow change when the maximum speed in the particular gear is achieved, stops the driver fubaring anything by overevving

[Kev]

OK, so by pulling the auto stick backwards you can generate some engine braking, but is there a sensible limit to max revs and time you should do this for before something breaks?

Theory is that you can select 1st eg at what ever daft speed you want to   but ..... the gearbox doesn't actually select that gear untill the car is going slowly enough. I've never tested it though!  :-/

Spot on Andy the gearbox will only allow change when the maximum speed in the particular gear is achieved, stops the driver fubaring anything by overevving

Now that is clever.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

[omega22]

My last 3 cars have been autos, a Carlton and 2 Omegas. Before that always had manuals. I would never go back to a manual, living in town it's just much less stressful with an auto. We have a particularly nasty roundabout here called the 'Haudagain'. It requires eyes in the back of your head when approaching and a fast getaway when the way is clear. My wife wouldn't go anywhere near it when we had a manual Cavalier as she was scared of stalling and getting caught on the roundabout. When she'd tried it with the auto it was so easy for her - no road was a no-go area now because she was so much more confident with the auto. I think many people have failed their tests because they are forced to use a manual gearbox. If they started with an auto, they'd have a lot less to think about and probably get on a lot faster. There seems to be a mind block in this country about passing your test on a manual. I usually suggest to people who are having difficulty learning to try an auto car. After all, if they pass their test in an auto it's far more likely that they will only drive Omega, BMW, Volvo or Merc cars in future. Most hire companies here and abroad will hire you an auto at very little extra cost.

[Salty]

 If you put it in sports while decelerating you can feel the engine braking take effect.

[Andy B]

........
There seems to be a mind block in this country about passing your test on a manual......

There's a mind block over manuals. I can't say specifically about manula MV6'/Elites cos I've not driven one but, surely Omegas can't be described a race cars anyway - they're a bit on the big side for slinging around corners. A bloke came into work the other week complaining about having had to queue all the way in. 'Never got out of 3rd, & my leg aches due to the clutch' he says. I suggested he got an auto. 'No bl00dy chance' he said 'I want to be in the gear I want ... not the car'  :-/ Go figure that out!!

[Salty]

The thing is an auto is in the right gear for general driving all the time. If you want sporty driving put it in sports mode

[Paul M]

The thing is an auto is in the right gear for general driving all the time. If you want sporty driving put it in sports mode

LOL... and I guess sports mode activates the hidden camera behind the grille that reads the road ahead and selects the most appropriate gear before you get to bends/roundabouts etc, while simultaneously disabling the torque converter so the wheels are actually connected to the engine with a fixed ratio in every gear (for throttle control)?

This stuff about the Omega not being a sports car that can be thrown around bends... well true it's not a sports car but the more enthusiastic drivers among us (that'll be the guys driving manuals then ) have probably already realised it's a very competent car round the twisty bits, certainly in my experience with an MV6 and a manual box. I guess the CDX/Elite will be a lot softer therefore have more body roll but I haven't driven one so can't say what the differences are. It's never going to come close to a Lotus Elise or similar, but for the size it's a very well mannered car that can be plenty of fun being thrown around. That's one of the reasons I went for an Omega as a runaround and not, for example, a Vectra which handles like a bag of spuds; well maybe GSi spec is OK but I haven't driven one and I still think the chassis is seriously flawed and of course it's front wheel drive.

It seems Opel put a fair bit of development into the chassis and weight distribution, if you can see past the image (and dump the sludgebox!) it just might surprise you