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[Sir Tigger KC]

So after yet another review Boris has given HS2 the green light....... Until the next review! 

I think that they have spent so much time and money on it so far, that they should stop procrastinating and get on and build the bleddy thing! 

And while they are at it, build it to Glasgow and Edinburgh as well!   

[Rangie]

There was a comment about it on the news today , China took 10 days to build a temporary hospital the UK has spent 30 years talking about a new rail line , showed people taking to the trees already on the planned route.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.
Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

[Andy B]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.

Neither do I 

Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

Like this one .....  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51443191

[Varche]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.
Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

This is like deja vu. Didn’t we have an HS2 thread before which concluded it was a great project because:

It would save 20 minutes on journey from London to Birmingham

It would free up capacity for freight on the old line.

Second class citizens could go on the existing line

Other countries would be impressed with our marvellous project

The Tories mates will get rich on the project

[Lizzie Zoom]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.
Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

This is like deja vu. Didn’t we have an HS2 thread before which concluded it was a great project because:

It would save 20 minutes on journey from London to Birmingham

It would free up capacity for freight on the old line.

Second class citizens could go on the existing line

Other countries would be impressed with our marvellous project

The Tories mates will get rich on the project

Correct Varche, and well summed up!

But regardless of this project showing what post Brexit Great Britain can still achieve in the financially crucial world of heavy engineering, giving thousands employment and encouraging a new breed of engineers - and this project certainly does that - some will still question why us British should do such things

But let them live in their little Britain as we go forward!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.
Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

This is like deja vu. Didn’t we have an HS2 thread before which concluded it was a great project because:

It would save 20 minutes on journey from London to Birmingham

It would free up capacity for freight on the old line.

Second class citizens could go on the existing line

Other countries would be impressed with our marvellous project

The Tories mates will get rich on the project

Plus of course, it will employ a crap load of people for a long time (not a bad thing......if we have enough heads)

[Lizzie Zoom]

Apart from the fact it might make Brum an extension of the London commuter belt, I don't see the point of it.
Boris does like a big vanity project though, so he was never likely to cancel it.

This is like deja vu. Didn’t we have an HS2 thread before which concluded it was a great project because:

It would save 20 minutes on journey from London to Birmingham

It would free up capacity for freight on the old line.

Second class citizens could go on the existing line

Other countries would be impressed with our marvellous project

The Tories mates will get rich on the project

Plus of course, it will employ a crap load of people for a long time (not a bad thing......if we have enough heads)

.........and what did I emphasis in my post above

[Raeturbo]

Bet there won’t be many indigenous workers though.. Oh dear am I allowed to say that these days?.....

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Over £100 billion and rising. It needs to be a hell of a lot of jobs ! Plus, the cost of employing all those people will take forever and a day to produce a return if it ever does.

[Varche]

It illustrates the short term nature of politics. Boris will be well forgotten.

In twenty years time when the project is nearly complete and already cost 200 billion due to “ unforeseen costs” someone else will have the blame laid at their slippery door.

[Raeturbo]

And of course by the time it starts it will be a for a few billions more,💰🧨

[Viral_Jim]

Bet there won’t be many indigenous workers though.. Oh dear am I allowed to say that these days?.....

Absolutely right, because we aren't a nation of grafters. The decline started with the baby boomers, my generation aren't in the main and the one that follows certainly aren't. If we ever want the bl00dy thing finished, I certainly hope it won't be brits staffing it. 

[Raeturbo]

I suggest the wages are probably not worth some people getting off their arse for. Make the pay fair and get our own folk to do it. I’m from the old school too, and had to, and still am working my Bo110#  off to make a living but....... I enjoy it

[Lizzie Zoom]

Bet there won’t be many indigenous workers though.. Oh dear am I allowed to say that these days?.....

Absolutely right, because we aren't a nation of grafters. The decline started with the baby boomers, my generation aren't in the main and the one that follows certainly aren't. If we ever want the bl00dy thing finished, I certainly hope it won't be brits staffing it. 

Agreed

It will be a fact that a very large proportion of the work force used will those from outside The UK. But that is no different than when the canals, railways, sewerage systems, and so many other heavy engineering projects propelled this country forward in the 18th and 19th centuries. Then it was the famous Irish navvies, yes then part of Britain (reluctantly for many), who numbered about 30% of the workforce. This time around will it be Eastern European’s who make up the numbers or Asians?

Whatever, as long ALL the project is completed that is all that should matter.

We will not change the snowflakes of the current British generation overnight to on mass pick up shovels to move tons of wet, dirty and heavy soil, or other materials. They have had it too good for too long. It will take either a miracle or a war to change that! 

 

[Raeturbo]

Regrettably 

[Varche]

The Chinese could build it in five years and cheaper.

Better would be to get the Spanish to build it in six years ( allowing for siesta) . Would be a great tool for Boris to use in EU free trade negotiations.

[Sir Tigger KC]

The Chinese could build it in five years and cheaper.

Better would be to get the Spanish to build it in six years ( allowing for siesta) . Would be a great tool for Boris to use in EU free trade negotiations.

The Chinese probably built Spain's HS railways as well! 

[TheBoy]

So after yet another review Boris has given HS2 the green light....... Until the next review! 

I think that they have spent so much time and money on it so far, that they should stop procrastinating and get on and build the bleddy thing! 

And while they are at it, build it to Glasgow and Edinburgh as well! 

It'll never go (as a true high speed link) beyond Brum, they will run out of cash.  Not that it is a high speed link - its only a few mins faster than the other lines were when this idea was being dreamt up.  Network Rail have had to actively slow down the existing routes to make HS2 look viable.

Remember, as well, every full time worker needs to cough up £4k for this to build it and around £1000 per year per full time worker in fare subsidies, assuming that every train running every 3 mins, running 24x7 is absolutely full -  and that's assuming HS2's running costs are accurate, which they have a poor track record for. Its fair to assume that they may be able to get near to filling them at peak, but not at other times, so my estimate would be about £1500 per year per full time worker, or £600pa (£50/month) for every man, woman and child in the country, just to run it.  Assuming their costs are accurate, which lets face it, they are already 5 times over the original build costs.  So I wouldn't be surprised if that monthly running burden on the public goes the same way, and it being £250+ per month for every UK resident.


Anyone still think its a worthwhile plan?

[Sir Tigger KC]

So after yet another review Boris has given HS2 the green light....... Until the next review! 

I think that they have spent so much time and money on it so far, that they should stop procrastinating and get on and build the bleddy thing! 

And while they are at it, build it to Glasgow and Edinburgh as well! 

It'll never go (as a true high speed link) beyond Brum, they will run out of cash.  Not that it is a high speed link - its only a few mins faster than the other lines were when this idea was being dreamt up.  Network Rail have had to actively slow down the existing routes to make HS2 look viable.

Remember, as well, every full time worker needs to cough up £4k for this to build it and around £1000 per year per full time worker in fare subsidies, assuming that every train running every 3 mins, running 24x7 is absolutely full -  and that's assuming HS2's running costs are accurate, which they have a poor track record for. Its fair to assume that they may be able to get near to filling them at peak, but not at other times, so my estimate would be about £1500 per year per full time worker, or £600pa (£50/month) for every man, woman and child in the country, just to run it.  Assuming their costs are accurate, which lets face it, they are already 5 times over the original build costs.  So I wouldn't be surprised if that monthly running burden on the public goes the same way, and it being £250+ per month for every UK resident.


Anyone still think its a worthwhile plan?

I didn't say it's a worthwhile plan and to be honest I've always sat on the fence about it.  I doubt that I'll ever use it....

But... they've spent so much on it so far I think they should stop talking about it and see it through, and do it properly FFS!  Of course it's unlikely that they will, as they will continually tinker to cut costs and we will end up with slower and less trains than planned... and it may even stop at Watford! 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I wonder if Boris reads OOF Genchat ? The media are reporting today that he is considering asking the Chinese to build it.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I wonder if Boris reads OOF Genchat ? The media are reporting today that he is considering asking the Chinese to build it.

I jokingly left a comment on John Redwood's blog a few weeks ago suggesting we get the Chinese in when he was talking about HS2.

Didn't think for a second he'd take it seriously!   

I hear that there are now vacancies for SpAds in Westminster following the Cummins cull!  Maybe I should apply, as whenever these characters emerge from the shadows, it seems that they are invariably young graduate types.  What experience of life can these young people possibly have to qualify them as advisers to Ministers? 

It might explain a few things as to my mind a 'Special Adviser' to a government minister should at least have a few grey hairs! 

[Nick W]

But... they've spent so much on it so far I think they should stop talking about it and see it through, and do it properly FFS!  Of course it's unlikely that they will, as they will continually tinker to cut costs and we will end up with slower and less trains than planned... and it may even stop at Watford! 

throwing good money after bad is always a daft thing to do. Considering the current guess for HS2 stands at £110 billion, and the return for every £ spent gets worse at every review, writing off what has already been spent makes much more sense than continuing.


It's not as if we have £110 billion spare.

[TheBoy]

But... they've spent so much on it so far I think they should stop talking about it and see it through, and do it properly FFS!  Of course it's unlikely that they will, as they will continually tinker to cut costs and we will end up with slower and less trains than planned... and it may even stop at Watford! 

throwing good money after bad is always a daft thing to do. Considering the current guess for HS2 stands at £110 billion, and the return for every £ spent gets worse at every review, writing off what has already been spent makes much more sense than continuing.


It's not as if we have £110 billion spare.

Not to mention the £37b a year to run it (which will rise), of which if they fill every train (over 850 a day) with full fare passengers, they guess will give approx. £18b.

[Sir Tigger KC]

It makes no sense whatsoever I agree.

If while you were going through the planning process for an extension your builder trebled the price before he'd even got a spade out of the van, you'd tell him to go forth and multiply! 

But never mind it's political, common sense doesn't come near it, so we should just get on with it and do it well and your Great-great-great grandchildren can pay for it!     

While they're at it they can plan another branch to Belfast over Boris's bridge! 

[biggriffin]

I wonder if Boris reads OOF Genchat ? The media are reporting today that he is considering asking the Chinese to build it.

I jokingly left a comment on John Redwood's blog a few weeks ago suggesting we get the Chinese in when he was talking about HS2.

Didn't think for a second he'd take it seriously!   

I hear that there are now vacancies for SpAds in Westminster following the Cummins cull!  Maybe I should apply, as whenever these characters emerge from the shadows, it seems that they are invariably young graduate types.  What experience of life can these young people possibly have to qualify them as advisers to Ministers? 

It might explain a few things as to my mind a 'Special Adviser' to a government minister should at least have a few grey hairs! 

 The Chinese have been asked to tender for this little job. Was on the news.

Ooops News just on.. Mr Grant shapos has denyed saying this, but is open to the possibility