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[Marks DTM Calib]

The original site has a file on it which looks to be an output from Target 3001

http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/ibfwikien/index.php?title=Main_Page

For which there appears to be a net limited trial version.

[LC0112G]

Looks to be available still, good old TI, the benefits of owning your own fab plants.!

I note that TI do 'samples' (they have always been good for that!  )

The relays are nothing special in fact the circuit is very simple.

We use LM1881's here at work. Should have a few spares lying around :-)

[zirk]

I'm being asked;

Do you have Gerber files? Or do you need to have them made for you?


Wtf?

Gerber files are the 'output' files from the PCB design software. If you want, I can make these for you from the circuit diagrams here :http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm

However, you need to get permission from "Hardware Killer" first.

I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.

Some similar discussion here from about 5 years ago re Hardware Killer designs.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=87458.0

Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.

Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.

Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,

1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.

2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.

3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.

[LC0112G]

I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.

Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.

Agree. That's what I said, wasn't it? However, the copyright is a mute point.  Would take less that 8 hours to redesign the pcb layout from the circuit layout. As said it is a fairly trivial design.

Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.

You can't copyright an idea. You have to patent it. We've been using the LM1881 chip in our designs since about 1987.

Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,

Mission creep is what makes projects overbudget, overcomplicated and liable to failure 

1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.

What the PCB is doing is bringing the RGB and sync signals into the panel out to an external connector. The LM1881 appears to be there so that you can also feed in a composite video signal - which is what a simple camera will output. iPhone/Smartphone - no.
 

2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.

We build a multi video input device for a govenment agency. It can take RGBS, RGBSynconGreen, Video, VGA, Y/C, Y/U/V, HDMI. It costs £20000, and is in a 19 inch rack. Some of the things you are asking for require a fair bit of intelligence in the circuitry, all of which is available in cheap consumer units. If you attempt to re-design it all onto one board, for a production run of what - 20? - it'll cost a fortune. The best option is to provide the facility for an external video input to the CID, and use other readily available boxes to drive into it.

3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.

The CID doesn't have an audio function?

[LC0112G]

Die komplett fertig aufgebaute und auf funktion geprüfte Leiterplatte direkt zum einbau
kostet 130€ + 6€ Versand.

Nur die nackte Leiterplatte
kostet 20 Euro plus 3 Euro Versand

Now my 1986 Grade 2 CSE German thinks that says he sells the bare PCB for 20€ plus 3€ P&P, or assembled units for 130€ plus 6€ P&P.

[zirk]

I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.

Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.

Agree. That's what I said, wasn't it? However, the copyright is a mute point.  Would take less that 8 hours to redesign the pcb layout from the circuit layout. As said it is a fairly trivial design.

Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.

You can't copyright an idea. You have to patent it. We've been using the LM1881 chip in our designs since about 1987.

Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,

Mission creep is what makes projects overbudget, overcomplicated and liable to failure 

Agreed, but I wasn't talking about reinventing the wheel here, if were talking about designing a PCB (as in the above comments) then wouldn't it make sense to add some simple changes, ie additional switching requirements rather than having them hanging them around externally.

1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.

What the PCB is doing is bringing the RGB and sync signals into the panel out to an external connector. The LM1881 appears to be there so that you can also feed in a composite video signal - which is what a simple camera will output. iPhone/Smartphone - no.[/quote]

No, the way Im reading the circuit its for RGB in, not CV single video signal in.
 

2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.

We build a multi video input device for a govenment agency. It can take RGBS, RGBSynconGreen, Video, VGA, Y/C, Y/U/V, HDMI. It costs £20000, and is in a 19 inch rack. Some of the things you are asking for require a fair bit of intelligence in the circuitry, all of which is available in cheap consumer units. If you attempt to re-design it all onto one board, for a production run of what - 20? - it'll cost a fortune. The best option is to provide the facility for an external video input to the CID, and use other readily available boxes to drive into it.[/quote]

Yep, I agree, but wasn't suggesting we plant all the possibilities in there, although in my opinion as above CV in would be good.

3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.

The CID doesn't have an audio function?[/quote]

Yes, I know, maybe Im jumping ahead of myself here, but guessing the wishlist for most on here looking at interfacing external Video through the CID, would also like to the audio source going through the same HU / CID set up. Nor difficult to do and as said could be adapted on the PCB. 

[LC0112G]

Yep, I agree, but wasn't suggesting we plant all the possibilities in there, although in my opinion as above CV in would be good.

The cheap way to do that is to feed the CV signal into all 4 inputs - R,G,B and Sync. May need to faff with the 75R terminating resistors, and the result would be a Black and White display, but it would work.

Anything else would need a Composite to RGB decoder. We used to build those, but they were broadcast quality and cost mega bucks.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The key things you have to consider is what the LCD panel will support signal wise (RGB plus sync in this case) and what's involved with supporting other interface types.

Its quite a lot more complicated to split a composite signal into RGB pus sync and any type of digital input would require a processor plus memory to downscale the video to meet the panels specification.

[Marks DTM Calib]

From memory, this is the panel datasheet (Is it a 5 inch display?)

In which case, it already has dual switchable inputs......

http://www.sharpsme.com/download/LQ5AW136-SP-122605pdf

[zirk]

From memory, this is the panel datasheet (Is it a 5 inch display?)

In which case, it already has dual switchable inputs......

http://www.sharpsme.com/download/LQ5AW136-SP-122605pdf

I looked into this Panel a few years back, so all a bit scratchy from memory, also manage to convince myself it had CVBS Pal/NTSC input but it doesn't so probably mixed it with a another Panel, but yes your right it does have dual RGB inputs but I seem to remember it may use the second i/p for the Map Display info 

Fairly sure the Omega ones where 126 Panels, the 136 were fitted to Audi's or VW or something like that.

[Vega]

Fairly sure the Omega ones where 126 Panels, the 136 were fitted to Audi's or VW or something like that.

The LQ5AW136 supersedes the LQ5AW126, the colour output from the LQ5AW136 panel is a little better than the LQ5AW126.

[chrisgixer]

Google translate gives this from the hardware killer link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm

Re copyright that translation reads;

SHOULD I DETERMINE THE CIRCUIT THE SOFTWARE OR THE MANUAL OR PICTURES OR DRAWINGS EVEN ANY PORTION OR EVEN COMPLETE example. IN E-BAY or elsewhere SOLD, OFFERED OR EVEN BE SETTLED I WILL COURTS AND WITH ALL! FUNDS AGAINST THIS ACTION !!
THIS CIRCUIT IS INTENDED FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE FREE, SO PRIVATE recreate IS ALLOWED!


So I take it from that, that reproduction is allowed for personal use, but not for profit. No?

Although, he mentions supplying a kit himself, with numerous options.

[zirk]

Google translate gives this from the hardware killer link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm

Re copyright that translation reads;

SHOULD I DETERMINE THE CIRCUIT THE SOFTWARE OR THE MANUAL OR PICTURES OR DRAWINGS EVEN ANY PORTION OR EVEN COMPLETE example. IN E-BAY or elsewhere SOLD, OFFERED OR EVEN BE SETTLED I WILL COURTS AND WITH ALL! FUNDS AGAINST THIS ACTION !!
THIS CIRCUIT IS INTENDED FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE FREE, SO PRIVATE recreate IS ALLOWED!


So I take it from that, that reproduction is allowed for personal use, but not for profit. No?

Although, he mentions supplying a kit himself, with numerous options.

Thats how I read it also Chris, but have already made my thoughts known regarding that one.

[chrisgixer]

Hi Zirk, sorry but I'm a bit confused.

Afaict, almost all the points and concerns you raise are covered in the link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm

In that the pcb and it's attached cable merely allow an input, in RGB, that works with the screen. Then, it's up to the owner to find a suitable converter (interface box) with the suitable input ports of your choice that output to the rgb cable/CID. There are numerous suggestions at the bottom of that link  to allow connection of your favourite gadget. He even mentions connecting an Xbox to enable wifi...? Over kill but I guess since that link was made, other options would be handy. Apple TV might be useful for Apple owners as it a lot smaller than an Xbox and has a mirror option to show what ever is on the phones screen. Tomtom, google maps with traffic, or whatever. Ignoring touch screen suitability, and finding a suitable interface box of course. A lap top has an RBG out for instance.

Surely, provided an if box with rgb out and with the required inputs is all that's required?


There's also a link somewhere for inputting the cd ribbon for audio. I know there is I've seen it. Only question there is how the cd unit will cope with juggling the extra audio and the cd. Probably output both

But ultimately, I presume, the inputs of sight and sound(excuse me I don't know the terms) will be turned on and off at the flick of a switch. Switch on, your chosen device is input. Switch off, head unit as normal function.

Which is why I said earlier, we need to be sure our required gadget has an interface box that suits our individual requirements with an rgb out. I haven't even looked yet tbh.

No...?

[Kevin Wood]

The problem I see is that the resolution of the screen is so very much lower than that of any modern device that once you've downconverted it to RGB the text won't be readable.

You'd be better off replacing the panel with a more modern hi-res one of a similar size and driving it with a raspberry pi or similar. Then you'd lose the edwardian sat nav, though.