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[gbh]

As this is a subject which seems to be in the news all the time it might interesting to hears members thoughts!!  For me it's an easy one and that is OUT!! I think our politicians will be a lot more accountable to us instead of hiding behind Brussels and maybe we can get something which is good for us.We have in the past like NHS and our ARMY but slowly our own powers are being watered down as an electrician I noticed this we changed all our cable colours they didn't change theirs and i'm sure the next step must be the Euro and changing the side of the road we drive,for sure they aren't going to change and out politicians don't seem to stand up for us!!!

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Out. I cannot think of a single genuine reason to stay in (and have never heard one), but I can think of many reasons to leave.

[zirk]

Without getting into a heated debate, Personally I think we are too far down the road to pull out now, and more to the point, we are far from prepared to stand on our own two feet, probably end going broke if we pulled out tomorrow.

There are benefits of being in the EU believe or not, mostly financial, we do get fair share of funds from it, which as the public we don't always hear about.

On a serious note, if we did vote out, it would need to planned very carefully, otherwise it could easily back fire.

[STEMO]

I'd vote to stay in if we could get guarantees that they would stop interfering with our benefits system, stop interfering with our immigration policies, stop interfering with our tax system, stop interfering with our banking system, stop trying to tell us what shape bananas to eat, stop trying to get me to put winter tyres on, stop wasting money on the gravy train that is Brussels........and a few more things that I can't recall right now.

Yep......that would sway me.



Oh yeah, and stop being so foreign.....nearly forgot that one.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

That would defeat the point. Its a political union of member states, who must abide by the rules and laws made by the (completely unelected) commissioners.
Zirk  - I would like to hear about these financial benefits. Seems to me its like being grateful that when someone takes £50 from you, they give you the benefit of giving you back a tenner.
Puzzled why you might think we cant stand on our own two feet after doing so from the dawn of time until about 40 years ago. Our economy is soon going to take over from Germany as the biggest in Europe. We are the worlds biggest importer of goods etc from the EU - hence giving us a very strong hand to do deals with them in future, and our economy, industry, culture etc. etc. is still widely regarded all over the world.
I think all we might need is to regain a little bit of confidence in ourselves as a nation, without reverting to all the "Brittania rules the waves" jingoistic type of mentality.

[gbh]

As the child of a mother whose father died at Arnhem i'm quite aware of what this country and the commonwealth gave to this world and in particular Europe.I believe we have some historical supporting countries in Europe and we certainly have the opposite.As long as we keeping paying a lot into club to help pay for countries who then would appear ungrateful then what's the point really.Are the people of this country better off after 40 years? Pensioners? Food banks? If we still are Great or United its time to test it and test our politicians!!

[tigers_gonads]

I'm English
A part of Great Britain

You can not have a sovereign nation if it doesn't control .............

1/. Its own laws.
2/. Its own currency.
3/. Its own borders.
4/. Its own armed forces.
5/. God forbid we ever have to use it, Our own Nuclear Deterrent.
6/. Its own foreign policy.

Europe started off as a common trade agreement between the nations of Europe which was great.
We all played by the same rules (unless your French  ) and everybody benefited.

Now the European Union has grown into effectively a new state which if you scratch the right back and are willing to bend over and take it up the jacksie from those good old unelected gravy train warriors in Brussels  , your allowed to join. 

Personally, i'd tell Brussels to stick our membership where the sun doesn't shine 
The only reason Brussels want anything to do with us is because of the financial sector based in London.
Other then that, we are all just a bunch of little Englanders too them and the majority couldn't give a toss about us.

Can we survive outside the "gravy train" ?

YES imho 

But it will be one hell of a hard slog for a few years.
As Migv6 says, it may give the poodles of this county regardless of colour or creed who have never known anything but compliance to Brussels a proper sense of identity and to be a part of a nation once more 

At the end of the day, if your born in England, your English and should be proud of that fact.

Hip Hip, Rule Britannia, God Save The Queen  and all that 


Right, time to piss next door off and set me speakers bouncing to Jerusalem   
 

[Terbs]

Out, out, and more out

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think that Britain needs to go one of two ways.

1) Become a fully committed member of the EU project , embracing all that the EU stands for, ever closer union, joining the Euro and Schengen and basically stop acting like a spoiled brat bitching about this that and the other all the time.  As I'm sure that is how we are seen from the EU perspective. 

2) Leave, but maintain friendly relations and cooperation with other European countries and the EU itself.  Leaving the EU dosn't mean turning our backs on other European nations.   

Personally I will vote to leave the EU as for me it's not about trade, industry and investment, but how we are governed and I want this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of ours to be an independent, democratic and self determining nation. 

Sadly I think that the Establishment will ramp up 'Project Fear' and we'll be bombarded with propaganda telling us that we will be going to 'hell in a hand cart' if we leave the EU.  The people will fall for this and we will remain in the EU, but if anything our position will be weaker as anytime we complain about a new directive or something the answer will be that the people of the UK voted to be part of the EU, so shut it! 

As a footnote, I love Europe!    I've worked, travelled and had great holidays all over the continent.  I love the differences between us in terms of people, languages, climate, architecture, scenery, food and even German birds with hairy armpits!    It's truly a great part of our planet to live!     It's the EU that I want to Britain leave, not Europe as whatever anyone says we are a European country!    So we should be careful with our terminology as the debate heats up. 

[Terbs]

Sir Tig.....that sums up my thoughts, exactly.
Brilliant rendition

[Andy B]

...
 and even German birds with hairy armpits!     ....

  Yuk! 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

mine too. 
The master of the dark arts - Mandelson, is co-ordinating the IN campaign, behind the scenes, so expect dirty tricks, and a sh1tstorm of lies in order to scare people into voting to remain.
If we stay in, expect far faster integration towards U.S.E once the dust has settled, as there will be no reason to hold back once the votes have been counted.
Tony Blair once again called for an EU army this week. This would be one of the major gangplanks to the U.S.E.
Why does he want this ? I can only imagine he goes to sleep at night dreaming of the U.S.E. with himself as president, in about 10 years time.
The really frightening thing is that it could happen very easily.

[Varche]

The OP question should have read EU in or out? Geographically Britain is in Europe.

My answer and vote will be for out despite potential ramifications as an expat. For example I expect an out vote to lead to frozen state pensions for expats living elsewhere in Europe in line with those living in former Commonwealth countries. I will cross that bridge if I actually reach retirement age.

Like any complex subject hardly anyone and certainly very few politicians actually understand the subject. You only had to look at the diatribes over should we bomb Syria or not.

So we have a bunch of folk who like being British and determining our own future .We have a bunch of people who like the idea of the security of being in a big club. Then we have the undecided, even at this late stage, who will be swung by sound bites and the media which is largely pro EU.

Other none EU countries manage to trade and live with the EU, so could Britain. The EU buys less off us than we buy from them. So a leave vote will immediately result in the Germans refusing to sell us BMWs, Bosch washing machines and so on (not).

The EU will only succeed if it has monetary and economic union run from a central location. They haven't impressed me so far with Greece which is a tragedy that pales into insignificance compared to the reckless way migrants have been courted.   

[tigers_gonads]

I can handle the hairy armpits 

Its the overly hairy clams that I can't be doing with 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Agreed. The EU can only possibly succeed if it becomes a complete political union like the U.S.A.
It would need one treasury deciding monetary policies, taxation levels, pensions, benefits, etc. etc.
One defence dept, with an EU army / Navy / Airforce, all sorts of stuff really, and of course a single currency.
That is why it is heading inevitably in that direction, and must succeed or collapse trying.
People keep banging on about us being better off because we are in the slow lane on all these matters, but the slow lane leads to the same destination, it just takes a bit longer to get there.
It has just been announced that over 1000 more jobs are to be lost at Tata steel.
The global price of steel has collapsed, but it will recover. When it does we wont have a steel industry left. Our Govt. in the past could have considered supporting the industry in the short term until it recovers, but it cant consider doing that now as EU law forbids it.
I just wish the unions and the Labour party would admit these facts. Kinnocks Jr. is currently on SKY news blaming the Tories.
He knows better than most that any colour of British Govt. has its hands tied behind its back. But then again his parents (both historically extremely Eurosceptic, as all true socialists are) sold their souls to Brussels and made £ millions from the gravy train.
I heard Ken Clarke on TV this morning banging on about how great the EU is and how we mustn't leave. He used exactly the same arguments he used when he argued in favour of us joining the Euro 20 years ago. He once said "I look forward to the day when Westminster is no more than a council chamber in Europe". To my mind thats nothing short of treason.