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Author Topic: Wandering Omega  (Read 4926 times)

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Enceladus

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #15 on: 03 October 2019, 15:52:02 »

Over time the ride height lowers because the springs sag and the rubber in the strut top mounts compresses. This increases the camber. It's not much extra work to renew the springs and mounts if you're doing the wishbones. Just the cost of the parts. You'll have the alignment costs anyway.

And the alignment should be done with a full tank and the front seats weighted with 70kg each to load the suspension. The garages never load the seats.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #16 on: 03 October 2019, 15:57:07 »

Over time the ride height lowers because the springs sag and the rubber in the strut top mounts compresses. This increases the camber. It's not much extra work to renew the springs and mounts if you're doing the wishbones. Just the cost of the parts. You'll have the alignment costs anyway.

And the alignment should be done with a full tank and the front seats weighted with 70kg each to load the suspension. The garages never load the seats.
The adjustments are usually done with the weight off the wheels ::)

Besides the VX settings are actually wrong. It's not enough to follow the shiny settings, you have to understand and appreciate what you are doing.

This is why the settings from Wheels in Motion are practically worshipped here.

A reasonably set up Omega will drive pleasantly, but a well set up one is a much better car to drive ;)
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Entwood

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #17 on: 03 October 2019, 16:10:47 »

Over time the ride height lowers because the springs sag and the rubber in the strut top mounts compresses. This increases the camber. It's not much extra work to renew the springs and mounts if you're doing the wishbones. Just the cost of the parts. You'll have the alignment costs anyway.

And the alignment should be done with a full tank and the front seats weighted with 70kg each to load the suspension. The garages never load the seats.
The adjustments are usually done with the weight off the wheels ::)

Besides the VX settings are actually wrong. It's not enough to follow the shiny settings, you have to understand and appreciate what you are doing.

This is why the settings from Wheels in Motion are practically worshipped here.

A reasonably set up Omega will drive pleasantly, but a well set up one is a much better car to drive ;)

Not disputing that at all .. but there is a reason why the likes of WIM and anyone with the right kit can do this and obtain the "correct" result ....

The first measurements are all made with the weight on the wheels, and the "base point" of all measurements established. When the vehicle is raised off its wheels to make the adjustments, the computor "follows" the suspension and makes the allowances needed, thus an accurate adjustment can be made knowing what the final result will be with the weight back on the wheels. WIM also always did a "final check" at the end to confirm correct adjustments.

If your "place" has the right kit, and the operator knows how to use it, they can always do this, if they don't then it is a "trial and error" adjustment with the weight off the wheels followed by a check with the weight back on, as this is the critical setting.

:)

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terry paget

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #18 on: 03 October 2019, 20:36:30 »

OP is not looking for a new car, just something that will tow his boat about occasionally. His Omega does not steer well. He has checked all the obvious things and changed the wishbones, to no avail. In reply#11 he reports that turning the n/s track rod one turn cured the steering pull. I suggested that with little effort he could usefully adjust the toe-in.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #19 on: 03 October 2019, 21:13:52 »

The remaining adjustments such as camber will be left unchecked/uncorrected which will knacker the tyres just as quickly regardless of toe. This is surely made more critical by the fact that the OP is towing... ;)

Also being a steering box it is critical that the straight ahead position of all the components is maintained as this keeps the steering slack dead centre. Move it one way or tother off centre and you will find the steering becomes u predictable as you turn, say on a fast sweeping bend which could be just as deadly as not bothering to check it properly.

Whilst I agree in principle with your sentiment TP, you have the facilities to reasonably adjust your car to an acceptable degree. I suspect that this is the OPs first Omega and he has yet to master its quirks and foibles.

Refreshing the suspension and alignment is an £800+ exercise and that assumes you do all the work yourself.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #20 on: 03 October 2019, 21:25:49 »

There are around 10 or so issues that afflict the Omega. These almost always affect them between 80 and 140k miles depending on use and maintenance. You can pretty much guarantee that all of them will happen, and the best advice is to consider them service items.

Some cost very little to sort, and some far more that the car may have been purchased for. Unfortunately suspension and alignment is one of the bigger jobs both in time and money, and is usually the one that gets avoided by selling the car to an unsuspecting punter who, I don't know, needs a comfy car to tow his boat...

That all said, a sorted Omega is a very nice place to be and takes some beating even 16 years after the last one was built.

If the bodywork really is that good, spend the effort to get the mechanicals sorted properly and appreciate it for what it is :y
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Raeturbo

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #21 on: 03 October 2019, 21:29:51 »

Yes I’ve spent a fortune on mine even though James done all the engine work for free, but it is a really a nice car and feels like it was very expensive when new which  no doubt it was.
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amba

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #22 on: 03 October 2019, 22:54:01 »

I spent close on £800 some 2 years ago now having the entire front suspension replaced on my Elite with NickW doing the said work.
Can honestly say the investment was well worth while and the steering and ride has been faultless for the past 2 years / 45k miles and having had 2 new sets of tyres with full alignment done during that time.
I probably am an exception to most forum members as I use my car daily for work and cover around 500 miles a week in what is a very uneconomical old car...but I enjoy it and the ride and comfort is spot on and I doubt even spending 20k + on something much newer the ride wouldn't be as good.
I consider it money well spent...but as said Im an exception  :y
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #23 on: 03 October 2019, 23:36:23 »

I try not to recall how much Ive spent on mine, but the suspension/ steering is nicely sorted and adjusted to WIM spec, and it drives very nicely indeed. I don't regret spending the money on it.
I have owned an Omega with worn and poorly aligned suspension/steering and it was a pretty unpleasant car to drive. In fact in the hands of a young inexperienced driver it could have been very dangerous imo.
Of course its down to each individual how much time/ effort / £££ they put into it, or can afford to put into it, but I would recommend they try if possible to have a drive in a nice example before deciding not to bother.
Imo, they are nicer to drive than many newer more expensive cars, once properly sorted.
« Last Edit: 03 October 2019, 23:39:04 by Migv6 le Frog Fan »
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Raeturbo

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #24 on: 03 October 2019, 23:53:57 »

To be honest I don’t like to admit it but since I’ve owned my Omega not even two years yet, I’ve spent over Two grand on it altogether,..and as I said James saved me a massive amount as well. But every single thing is fixed working well and it really drives superbly,
its very thirsty, but I have an Astra lpg I use as well thank god. Was thinking of selling it at one time but it is not going anywhere now for a few years at least.
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terry paget

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #25 on: 09 October 2019, 12:46:57 »

The remaining adjustments such as camber will be left unchecked/uncorrected which will knacker the tyres just as quickly regardless of toe. This is surely made more critical by the fact that the OP is towing... ;)

Also being a steering box it is critical that the straight ahead position of all the components is maintained as this keeps the steering slack dead centre. Move it one way or tother off centre and you will find the steering becomes u predictable as you turn, say on a fast sweeping bend which could be just as deadly as not bothering to check it properly.

Whilst I agree in principle with your sentiment TP, you have the facilities to reasonably adjust your car to an acceptable degree. I suspect that this is the OPs first Omega and he has yet to master its quirks and foibles.

Refreshing the suspension and alignment is an £800+ exercise and that assumes you do all the work yourself.
Right. My procedure takes this into account. I was pleasantly surprised (thanks Dave), on changing inner and outer track rods on an Astra with rack and pinion steeering, that merely setting new track rods same length as old was adequate to achieve pleasant steering.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2019, 12:56:42 by terry paget »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #26 on: 09 October 2019, 12:56:11 »

Oranges to anchovies ::)
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Nick W

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #27 on: 09 October 2019, 14:16:08 »

Right. My procedure takes this into account. I was pleasantly surprised (thanks Dave), on changing inner and outer track rods on an Astra with rack and pinion steeering, that merely setting new track rods same length as old was adequate to achieve pleasant steering.


that is not down to the rack but the simpler, less adjustable front suspension and its interaction with the non-adjustable, undriven rear. The Omega would have been better off without the range of adjustments; Granadas have the same basic suspension designs, but the only problem they share is front bush wear. And that is true of all Mcpherson strut suspensions.
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2011venator

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Re: Wandering Omega
« Reply #28 on: 22 October 2019, 17:32:53 »

Update for members looking to diy the suspension.

All track rods were seized despite several days soaking with penetrating spray, so removal of all, then lay them on the vise and give them a good but careful whacking with the hammer to free them off works as good as heat imho (experience of early Japanese motorbikes taught me how to free of most items) then clean grease and reassemble no point replacing them as they are all in good order.
Couple of ball joint boots got damaged so replaced them. Those clips are fun if you ever take a ball joint cover off to replace try and save the original clips if possible as the ones in the kit are brutal  >:( little one fits ok but getting the big one over is a ******** and I surrendered and used the original ones which were still good.
I suspect my car has had replacements fairly recently or the liberal undersealing has kept them in good order.

Then using Terry's method and some you-tube videos and a lot of jacking up down and careful adjustment it is now driving straight as an arrow and has stopped tram-lining which was the worst problem anyway.
It will not be doing any hard or even moderate cornering although it feels fairly good on the bends for a big lump, I get my kicks when needed in the Ford Puma which you can drive like you stole it, out corner most things on four wheels, and still get 40mpg. Or if I really want some adrenaline I will take the rf900 out for a blast (dont get 40 mpg out of that though  :D)  This year it has not even got out of the garage. (to many toys to little time)  Getting old and starting to have far to many sensible moments, time to buy a c90 :)
Thanks to all for the input many great opinions.
 
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