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[Andy A]

Omega 2.2i 2003 manual.

I am going to replace my old brake and clutch fluid with new soon, using a Sealey VS820 pressure bleeder and want to make sure that the fluid in the ABS is changed as well. Is bleeding the ABS a DIY job and what is the procedure?

I have heard that when the ABS fuse is taken out the ABS valves stay open by default and when the brakes are bled the ABS will be bled through at the same time. Is this correct?

Thanks

[Doctor Gollum]

Ignore all concerns re the abs. (Unless there's an unusual problem in which case it will need to be activated by a diagnostic tool)

Just bleed the brakes as normal and all will be well.  The main concern in normal servicing circumstances is getting all the old fluid out from behind the calipers piston. Insure it's fully returned while the nipple is open to achieve this.

Other than that, just bleed the brakes as normal.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Have a feeling there's an order in which to do each caliper, on FL and maybe even MFLs, but as said above any concern about the ABS ECU is more down to the thing having air bubbles in it, or the entire system being drained and the subsequent airlocks etc.. But in your case you'll be fine 

[Andy A]

Ignore all concerns re the abs. (Unless there's an unusual problem in which case it will need to be activated by a diagnostic tool)

Just bleed the brakes as normal and all will be well.  The main concern in normal servicing circumstances is getting all the old fluid out from behind the calipers piston. Insure it's fully returned while the nipple is open to achieve this. Will this damadge any seals?

Other than that, just bleed the brakes as normal.

[4x4]

Start from the caliper furthest away from master cylinder then work your way to the nearest.

[TheBoy]

The only complication ABS adds is you mustn't let the reservoir run out, as once you get air in the modulator, you're in trouble.

So with that in mind, just bleed as you would normally.

[Andy A]

I just want to confirm this before I start.

To get all the old fluid out from the caliper I need to put a g-clamp on the caliper piston and force it fully into the caliper with the bleed nipple open to expel all the old fluid out and then keep it like that until I have fully flushed and bled that line and tightened the nipple back up. Then release the g clamp from the caliper and bolt the caliper back in place. 

I then need to press the brake peddle so the caliper piston re-seats itself onto the back of the brake pads. Then do the same on the other three calipers. Is this correct?

Thanks

[Andy B]

I just want to confirm this before I start.

To get all the old fluid out from the caliper I need to put a g-clamp on the caliper piston and force it fully into the caliper with the bleed nipple open to expel all the old fluid out and then keep it like that until I have fully flushed and bled that line and tightened the nipple back up. Then release the g clamp from the caliper and bolt the caliper back in place. 

I then need to press the brake peddle so the caliper piston re-seats itself onto the back of the brake pads. Then do the same on the other three calipers. Is this correct?

Thanks

Sounds close enough.  You're not going to get the fluid out of the ABS modulator though unless you have a gizmo that can cycle it.  Just bleed it as you would normally & don't worry about a bit of old fluid

[Andy A]

I just want to confirm this before I start.

To get all the old fluid out from the caliper I need to put a g-clamp on the caliper piston and force it fully into the caliper with the bleed nipple open to expel all the old fluid out and then keep it like that until I have fully flushed and bled that line and tightened the nipple back up. Then release the g clamp from the caliper and bolt the caliper back in place. 

I then need to press the brake peddle so the caliper piston re-seats itself onto the back of the brake pads. Then do the same on the other three calipers. Is this correct?

Thanks

Sounds close enough.  You're not going to get the fluid out of the ABS modulator though unless you have a gizmo that can cycle it.  Just bleed it as you would normally & don't worry about a bit of old fluid

I now have a gizmo here that can cycle the pump but I don't know the procedure. Do you know what the procedure is?

Thanks

[Andy B]

Sorry Andy I don't.  Only ever done a 'normal' bleed on ABS equipped  cars

[Nick W]

You're making things complicated!

Bleed it normally, and only worry about the ABS if there is a problem.
I recently changed the ABS valveblock/ECU, and everything bled normally: fluid arrived at each caliper quickly, and twice around the car gave a good firm pedal. I didn't even bother with the pressure bleeder I normally use on older cars.

[Doctor Gollum]

Start from the caliper furthest away from master cylinder then work your way to the nearest.

Rightly or wrongly, I never paid any attention to the order. So don't think it matters. Discuss....?

[Nick W]

If you go around the car twice, which I always do, I don't think it matters. But you have to start somewhere, and longstanding advice is to start with nipple farthest from the mastercylinder. So why not be systematic about the whole procedure?

[Andy A]

Just read this on a web site.

"Valves

There is a valve in the brake line of each brake controlled by the ABS. On some systems, the valve has three positions:

    In position one, the valve is open; pressure from the master cylinder is passed right through to the brake.

    In position two, the valve blocks the line, isolating that brake from the master cylinder. This prevents the pressure from rising further should the driver push the brake pedal harder.

    In position three, the valve releases some of the pressure from the brake".


Does this mean that trapped old brake fluid left in the ABS pump after a fluid change is a myth?

I'm confused. Can some one in the know please explain?

Thanks

[05omegav6]

Unless you've deliberately filled the system with water/atf/cooking oil/ bleach/ beer or wee, then you're fretting over nothing

Just bleed it already...

[Andy A]

Very last question.

Is it best to renew all the bleed nipples and what size thread etc are they or is it best to buy from Vauxhall?

Thanks

[Andy B]

Bleed nipples are a couple of quid each. If you're buying one, it kinda makes sense to replace all of them. When I painted all my calipers I used a standard M8 bolt to keep the threads clear, but others have said theirs used something else 

[sjc]

Haynes manual says...

Pre-1998 3-channel ABS: bleed front left ; front right ; rear left ; rear right

Post-1998 4-channel ABS: bleed left rear ; right front ; right rear ; left front

 

[Andy A]

Thank you all for your help and advice. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Very last question.

Is it best to renew all the bleed nipples and what size thread etc are they or is it best to buy from Vauxhall?

Thanks

Have you not done it yet?

Never needed to replace a bleed nipple on an omega yet. Although there's always a first time obvioisly. Look at the nipples and visually check they look ok. Rubber caps present, no vast amounts of rust or corrosion. If looking normal.... Just bleed the brakes.

Most important thing is to insure the reservoir is topped up/doesn't draw air in as you draw the fluid through at the caliper.

[Doctor Gollum]

Haynes manual says...

Pre-1998 3-channel ABS: bleed front left ; front right ; rear left ; rear right

Post-1998 4-channel ABS: bleed left rear ; right front ; right rear ; left front

 

[Andy A]

Very last question.

Is it best to renew all the bleed nipples and what size thread etc are they or is it best to buy from Vauxhall?

Thanks

Have you not done it yet?

Never needed to replace a bleed nipple on an omega yet. Although there's always a first time obvioisly. Look at the nipples and visually check they look ok. Rubber caps present, no vast amounts of rust or corrosion. If looking normal.... Just bleed the brakes.

Most important thing is to insure the reservoir is topped up/doesn't draw air in as you draw the fluid through at the caliper.

Will do Doc. 

Thanks

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Thing is with bleed nipples is they sit there being attacked by salt, road grime, stones etc... and get undone very rarely. They either turn ok, or get stuck and shear part way in the caliper. Mine were a little rounded, but were 'ok' this time, but after another layer of steel corroded off after however many years, the next time they were due for being undone I could imagine it would be mole grips time, so I've replaced mine. I'd say it's an 'each to their own' thing.   

Again, the crucial thing here is not to allow air to be drawn in, as stated, the condition of the nipples is secondary. I've only replaced mine as now's the time to replace them, as the caliper's currently off the car - you can't exactly just change them one day on a whim, not without having to bleed the system again. 

[Andy A]

Thing is with bleed nipples is they sit there being attacked by salt, road grime, stones etc... and get undone very rarely. They either turn ok, or get stuck and shear part way in the caliper. Mine were a little rounded, but were 'ok' this time, but after another layer of steel corroded off after however many years, the next time they were due for being undone I could imagine it would be mole grips time, so I've replaced mine. I'd say it's an 'each to their own' thing.   

Again, the crucial thing here is not to allow air to be drawn in, as stated, the condition of the nipples is secondary. I've only replaced mine as now's the time to replace them, as the caliper's currently off the car - you can't exactly just change them one day on a whim, not without having to bleed the system again. 

I've had a nasty cold ever since so unable to do them yet. Did you get your bleed nipples from Vauxhall and what was the price?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Ah no, mine were from a mint scrapper, actually. But with clean, sharp edges, no sign of them every being undone before, so worth pocketing when I saw them 

As per a post by the good Mr Marks DTM, from several years ago...

Fronts - M8 x 1.25
Rears - M8 x 1.00

So eg:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screw-Nipple-M8-x-1-00mm-part-number-BPN22-/261691573516?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cee08850c

and...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screw-Nipple-M8-x-1-25mm-/181570539746?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a467290e2

as you can see, cost is minimal as you'd expect, you can even get stainless steel ones. for about the same price.

[Andy A]

Ah no, mine were from a mint scrapper, actually. But with clean, sharp edges, no sign of them every being undone before, so worth pocketing when I saw them 

As per a post by the good Mr Marks DTM, from several years ago...

Fronts - M8 x 1.25
Rears - M8 x 1.00

So eg:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screw-Nipple-M8-x-1-00mm-part-number-BPN22-/261691573516?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item3cee08850c

and...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screw-Nipple-M8-x-1-25mm-/181570539746?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a467290e2

as you can see, cost is minimal as you'd expect, you can even get stainless steel ones. for about the same price.

Thanks for the links and info. 

[omega2018]

I have this tasked planned but wasn't going to replace the nipples.  doing it with a gunson easi bleed tyre pressure type bleeder, if i fully remove the nipples aren't i going to get a flood of brake fluid?  or do you bleed, disconnect the tyre, remove and replace the nipple, reconnect the tyre, bleed again and tighten?  seems like a faff and a bit of a wet mess.

[omega2018]

this place seem to be the cheapest £2.50 a pair inc del and they include new caps - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/biggredltd/ 

beware, they call them screws not nipples so they don't appear in a search for 'bleed nipples'

next question, does anyone know the total overall length?  I know a long one will always fit but i'd like to get them right and not have to take the  old ones out before ordering.

options are (head size in brackets):

M8 1.25  24.5mm (8mm), 32.5mm (9mm) , 34.7mm (8mm), 35.5mm (9mm), 41.5mm (9mm), 49mm (9mm),

M8 1.0  28mm (8mm), 32mm (8mm), 33.5mm (9mm), 38mm (8mm)

[Andy A]

I have this tasked planned but wasn't going to replace the nipples.  doing it with a gunson easi bleed tyre pressure type bleeder, if i fully remove the nipples aren't i going to get a flood of brake fluid?  or do you bleed, disconnect the tyre, remove and replace the nipple, reconnect the tyre, bleed again and tighten?  seems like a faff and a bit of a wet mess.

Yes. I have ordered a set of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000R9ZIUQ/ref=sr_ph?ie=UTF8&qid=1425634856&sr=1&keywords=Sealey-Hose-Pinch-Tool to clamp the rubber brake pipe before each caliper. To stop the fluid escaping. 

[Andy A]

this place seem to be the cheapest £2.50 a pair inc del and they include new caps - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/biggredltd/ 

beware, they call them screws not nipples so they don't appear in a search for 'bleed nipples'

next question, does anyone know the total overall length?  I know a long one will always fit but i'd like to get them right and not have to take the  old ones out before ordering.

options are (head size in brackets):

M8 1.25  24.5mm (8mm), 32.5mm (9mm) , 34.7mm (8mm), 35.5mm (9mm), 41.5mm (9mm), 49mm (9mm),

M8 1.0  28mm (8mm), 32mm (8mm), 33.5mm (9mm), 38mm (8mm)

Good question.

Any one know what diameter plastic tube I need to buy to fit over all 4 nipples to get a nice air tight seal?