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[Lizzie Zoom]

Yes indeed Ron, they should treat us with the same respect and patience as we are expected to treat them. Keep it to theirselves Ffs I find it abhorrent and I don’t like my grandchildren  growing up thinking sex between same sexes is normal ITS NOT!

You can't claim to respect a group and then demand they conduct their lifestyles only in private / spaces away from where you happen to be. Same-sex sexual relations are part of nature, like it or lump it, they are an observable phenomenon, in birds, marine and land-based mammals, and yes, shockingly, humans too. Just because "we" have had a couple of thousand years of religious doctrine rammed down our throats that its not the done thing doesn't make it so, along with most other things written in fiction. 

I see no reason why those who identify as LGBTQ+ wouldn't want to continue marching, protesting etc. After all, they don't receive equal treatment, either under UK law or in practice 'out in the real world'. As I'm sure Lizzie can attest; throughout history, those who have sat quietly by, waiting for rights to be given to them tend to be waiting a very very long time.  That said, the views on the matter expressed here are the classic anti-oppression catch-22: you don't protest, you're sitting idly by so must be happy with your lot/are too lazy to fight for what you believe; get out on the streets, your making a nuisance/spectacle of yourself. 

Also, on the point of what "Normal" people think, statistical data for the last 30yrs shows clearly that we now live in a society where the majority of people in the UK now support gay marriage and see nothing at all wrong with same sex relationships (11% 1981, 68% 2017). The vast majority also do not identify as prejudiced against trans people. Probably unsurprisingly
;, belief that same sex relationships are wrong tends to be much higher in 'white british' church goers (thankfully a group that is in itself in decline), black and asian communities - again linked with religion.

So in summary, far from the "Normal" most on this thread claim to be, they're actually the 'noisy minority' they choose to belittle.   

Well done Jimmy, you have summed that all up very nicely. You obviously understand what I, and many others out here in the real world are trying to do and say to assist a highly vulnerable number of groups within the LGBT community. They are so often victims of terrible abuse and rejection from strangers, let alone within their own families with the police having to deal with the fallout caused by "normal" people, who actually turn out to have many issues themselves. That all so often leads on to severe mental health issues, resulting frequently in suicide.

As you rightly state Jimmy "equality" or anything coming close to that they do not feel or get. I have met and discussed the issues with scores of these individuals, and it is often very disturbing how they are being treated by our so called "open minded" and fair society.  All the time that is the case the police, with many advisors like me, will be kept very busy.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Yes indeed we’re are all subject to ridicule, racism, injustice call it what you like but we just need to get on with it FFS.

No we are not subjected to the level of "ridicule, fascism, injustice" and I would add, very open hostility and humiliation that a transgendered individual goes through almost every day. So much so that many who feel that they are in the wrong body put off, maybe for decades, the inevitable decision to undergo gender reassignment. That pressure, often from a very early age, from 5 or 6 yearsold when they start to feel "wrong" and identify with the opposit gender, referred to as Gender Dysphoria, leads to depression, although they may be far too young to know that, and a wish to die. These cases, which I am very familiar with and well trained for, are about 1 in 5,000 people, a revised figures, as it was 1 in 10,000 but many more cases are coming to light as more individuals are feeling able to "come out" than ever before.

I am referring to the genuine cases of Gender Dysphoria, as assessed by qualified specialists in that field, not the many who just feel they would like to be of the opposite gender for a number of reasons, that the media have made great play on, along with indivuals who frankly have no idea about what constitutes a genuine case of GD.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just because I don’t like and don’t agree with their behaviour doesn’t mean that I’m going to attack or abuse them what I’m saying is Fit in for fks sale. And quote me where I’ve advocated restricting their rights. My standpoint and belief is at least as valid as yours whatever bulls#it you or I quote. Christianity is again mostly the norm in this country Too isn’t it? All humans in Britain are protected by the law, not just the few you pick out.  You say “Uk law and moral standards” well that’s the law of this land is that something else you don’t agree with?

Right, I must come in here and put a very simple observation in to your statement above following Jimmy's excellent posts that correctly sum up so much of the truth around the LGBT subject which I thoroughly endorse

So they should "Fit in for fks sale [sic] (you obviously meant "sake"??) ; well that is exactly what they are trying to do but regrettably our fair and decent society, which you highlight consists of "normal" people, in what you also consider to be the majority who are all the same ( ), so often will not let them by way of constant abuse and ridicule as I have mentioned many times before

[STEMO]

Personally, I think that this thread has run it's course. No one is going to suddenly change sides 

[Bigron]

Agreed. In any event, nature doesn't regard homosexuality as normal for either gender as it doesn't fulfill nature's prime directive for ANY species, that of creating more of that species. Not possible with two of the same gender!

Ron.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Agreed. In any event, nature doesn't regard homosexuality as normal for either gender as it doesn't fulfill nature's prime directive for ANY species, that of creating more of that species. Not possible with two of the same gender!

Ron.

And that could be nature's way of controlling the population, just as she has in so many other ways

[Lizzie Zoom]

Personally, I think that this thread has run it's course. No one is going to suddenly change sides 

As you started it I must agree. You have achieved what you wanted with a very long discussion about a highly controversial subject that could run and run!

As I said before, you rascal!  

[Raeturbo]

And quote me where I’ve advocated restricting their rights.

No, you're advocating that they don't do the only thing they can (legally) to try to get equal rights - which is march/protest. You're assuming they have equal protection under UK law, which they don't, and never have.

My standpoint and belief is at least as valid as yours whatever bulls#it you or I quote.

Belief, yes, if its personal to you, I won't argue with what's inside your head, but to state belief as fact eg. "I'm in the majority" when, on the available evidence you're not, isn't valid. No more than putting an astronomer and a flat earth believer together and saying both viewpoints are equally valid. One has facts behind it, the other is what exists inside someone's head. The two are not comparable.

All humans in Britain are protected by the law, not just the few you pick out.  You say “Uk law and moral standards” well that’s the law of this land is that something else you don’t agree with?

Again, you're wrong. Straight and Gay people are not treated the same under UK law. And. Never. Have. Been. You're the one who wants them to accept that they aren't equal and "just fit in" not me.

My personal belief (and I accept its apparently a minority view in these parts) is that people should be treated the same under the law regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation and don't agree with any area of law that discriminates against people on those characteristics.

              No, you’ve got me wrong there I agree with your last paragraph entirely even if you can’t grasp that already, and if they are not treated the same in the eyes of the law then I stand corrected, plus I did not say they weren’t equal I merely said fit in, and I’m still not convinced in your majority theory unless you are rolling all these different types into one so as to have an overwhelming pool as a representation.

[Doctor Gollum]

Across society as a whole, conformity and diversity are mutually exclusive. Always have been and always will be.

I think the point being raised by various conformist is that there has been so much exposure to the diversity side of the fence that conformists feel under represented by the media in general.

Personally, whilst I accept the right, (regardless of circumstance), of people to be transgender or gender neutral I reserve the right to not date outside of the traditional heterosexual pool. Also I don't watch much mainstream telly box, so remain largely unafflicted by the current media trend of over representing obscure minorities*

*Regardless of the exposure they receive LBGT people a minorities in a numerical sense when compared to the population as a whole.

[STEMO]

Personally, I think that this thread has run it's course. No one is going to suddenly change sides 

As you started it I must agree. You have achieved what you wanted with a very long discussion about a highly controversial subject that could run and run!

As I said before, you rascal!  

There is no way I started this thread, I started a thread, tongue in cheek, about political correctness gone mad in adverts.

[Doctor Gollum]

Personally, I think that this thread has run it's course. No one is going to suddenly change sides 

As you started it I must agree. You have achieved what you wanted with a very long discussion about a highly controversial subject that could run and run!

As I said before, you rascal!  

There is no way I started this thread, I started a thread, tongue in cheek, about political correctness gone mad in adverts.

That'll learn ya

[STEMO]

Personally, I think that this thread has run it's course. No one is going to suddenly change sides 

As you started it I must agree. You have achieved what you wanted with a very long discussion about a highly controversial subject that could run and run!

As I said before, you rascal!  

There is no way I started this thread, I started a thread, tongue in cheek, about political correctness gone mad in adverts.

That'll learn ya

I know. It went quiet after four posts and the that troublemaking builder fella started it all off again. 

[Raeturbo]

Oh dear ....anyway we’ve all had a chance to air our views, and that is at least more than would be acceptable than in a multitude of other countries

[STEMO]

Oh dear ....anyway we’ve all had a chance to air our views, and that is at least more than would be acceptable than in a multitude of other countries

Wales, you mean? 

[Raeturbo]

Ha ha that’s funny