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[Doctor Gollum]

The holiday market, particularly flights, has changed dramatically since I started at Gatwick in '95...

Air 2000/First Choice%
Airtours/MyTravel+
Airworld#
Astraeus
Britannia/Thomson%
Caledonian+
Excel
Flying Colours#
JMC+
Monarch
Peach Air#
UK leisure*
Virgin Sun

Now one left, TUI.

*Became part of Air 2000.
#Combined to form JMC.
+Merged to become recently defunct Thomas Cook Group ( basically used Thomas Cook name to bail out European Airtours group hence Belgian, German (Condor) and Swedish operations)
%First Choice merged with Thomson and combined airlines trading as Thomson and more recently, TUI.

I remember Britannia used to operate five flights a day from Gatwick to Palma. Every day to feed the cruise ships. Not any more

[Lizzie Zoom]

The holiday market, particularly flights, has changed dramatically since I started at Gatwick in '95...

Air 2000/First Choice%
Airtours/MyTravel+
Airworld#
Astraeus
Britannia/Thomson%
Caledonian+
Excel
Flying Colours#
JMC+
Monarch
Peach Air#
UK leisure*
Virgin Sun

Now one left, TUI.

*Became part of Air 2000.
#Combined to form JMC.
+Merged to become recently defunct Thomas Cook Group ( basically used Thomas Cook name to bail out European Airtours group hence Belgian, German (Condor) and Swedish operations)
%First Choice merged with Thomson and combined airlines trading as Thomson and more recently, TUI.

I remember Britannia used to operate five flights a day from Gatwick to Palma. Every day to feed the cruise ships. Not any more

.............yes, and I would add that Thomas Cook going will only increase holiday package prices greatly to give a realistic profit level to those left in that industry.

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

I would have thought that one of the reasons that these package holiday companies are having a tough time is that more and more people are organising their trips themselves. 

With the internet it is so easy to book flights, accomodation, car hire yourself, so why use a company like Thomas Cook? 

So maybe it's not that people aren't travelling, they are just doing things differently. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

I would have thought that one of the reasons that these package holiday companies are having a tough time is that more and more people are organising their trips themselves. 

With the internet it is so easy to book flights, accomodation, car hire yourself, so why use a company like Thomas Cook? 

So maybe it's not that people aren't travelling, they are just doing things differently. 

I agree

But, I was also thinking of the fleet of aircraft operated by Thomas Cook.  Running them does not come cheap, so those costs must be within the pricing structure of the holiday package offer itself.  Did those costs help to bring TC down, just like the many airlines DG quoted?

[omegod]

I returned from Tunisia with TC last Thursday, lovely holiday, seems TC owned the hotel we stayed in so that's going to close too. Alongside the TC staff and customers I feel sorry for the locals as they are working really hard to rebuild a massively important tourist industry which has had numerous knocks over recent years. I found them to be really nice people..

The Hotel demanding money seems to be a one off and the press are overdramatising as usual.

Mossies could bugger off though, I got savaged as there had been a recent storm   

[Doctor Gollum]

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

I would have thought that one of the reasons that these package holiday companies are having a tough time is that more and more people are organising their trips themselves. 

With the internet it is so easy to book flights, accomodation, car hire yourself, so why use a company like Thomas Cook? 

So maybe it's not that people aren't travelling, they are just doing things differently. 

Very much this

JMC, and subsequently Thomas Cook, had all the shitty markets sown up... Egypt went from two holiday airports to five in a couple of years, and TC operated in all of the new resorts, likewise Turkey and Tunisia. Longhaul the same... Maldives, Dominican Republic and Cancun.

As long as EasyJet don't go long haul they will be fine... It doesn't fit their business model.

Ryanair shouldn't exist (it's a horrible product) but continues to do very well by virtue of being proactive... If a flight looks to lose money, it gets canned and everyone bumped onto different flights to fill them up.

The next big hurdle is the B737 Max issue as the current 737 fleets are starting to age and a lot of airlines, including TUI are starting to get antsy about the delays... The first aircraft had been delivered and was being operated in Europe long before the Ethiopian crash.

The repatriation efforts are mammoth, and only conceivable because it's late in the season but still won't be helped by Norwegian hogging all the larger charter aircraft to bolster their Dreamliner operation 

[Doctor Gollum]

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

I would have thought that one of the reasons that these package holiday companies are having a tough time is that more and more people are organising their trips themselves. 

With the internet it is so easy to book flights, accomodation, car hire yourself, so why use a company like Thomas Cook? 

So maybe it's not that people aren't travelling, they are just doing things differently. 

I agree

But, I was also thinking of the fleet of aircraft operated by Thomas Cook.  Running them does not come cheap, so those costs must be within the pricing structure of the holiday package offer itself.  Did those costs help to bring TC down, just like the many airlines DG quoted?

It's a bit more complicated than that, many of their newer aircraft were ex Monarch.

That list was post Dan Air/Air Europe which both went in the early '90s. And the events of 9/11 flattened the industry.

Excel went with the rise of incidents in Egypt which highlighted the fact that they were walking a fine line financially.

[omegod]

The repatriation started well, friend was due to return from JFK at 3am this morning, TC went pop at 2 am . He was on a "rescue " plane by 7am ! Some bloody going that 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Now I'm not normally one for state intervention... 

But I wonder if it would have been cheaper and easier all round for the government to provide funds for TC to wind up operations a bit slower. ie: as of today TC took no new bookings or operated any more trips even those booked and paid for, but saw all current trips through to completion including paying hotels and flights home. 

I read that the repatriation will cost taxpayers £100 million. 

[Doctor Gollum]

The repatriation started well, friend was due to return from JFK at 3am this morning, TC went pop at 2 am . He was on a "rescue " plane by 7am ! Some bloody going that 

Certainly Gatwick was getting ready yesterday afternoon...

[Doctor Gollum]

Now I'm not normally one for state intervention... 

But I wonder if it would have been cheaper and easier all round for the government to provide funds for TC to wind up operations a bit slower. ie: as of today TC took no new bookings or operated any more trips even those booked and paid for, but saw all current trips through to completion including paying hotels and flights home. 

I read that the repatriation will cost taxpayers £100 million. 

Not sure that was an available option... Technically they are operating or not. As to existing holidays, ie people already abroad, they will be largely able to to complete their holidays as the hotels are either group owned or their bookings are protected by ATOL, so they will be paid. Those expecting guests to pay twice are simply trying to profiteers from the situation.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Any thoughts on the future, or not, of Ryanair and Easyjet?  The next to go? 

I would have thought that one of the reasons that these package holiday companies are having a tough time is that more and more people are organising their trips themselves. 

With the internet it is so easy to book flights, accomodation, car hire yourself, so why use a company like Thomas Cook? 

So maybe it's not that people aren't travelling, they are just doing things differently. 

I agree

But, I was also thinking of the fleet of aircraft operated by Thomas Cook.  Running them does not come cheap, so those costs must be within the pricing structure of the holiday package offer itself.  Did those costs help to bring TC down, just like the many airlines DG quoted?

It's a bit more complicated than that, many of their newer aircraft were ex Monarch.

That list was post Dan Air/Air Europe which both went in the early '90s. And the events of 9/11 flattened the industry.

Excel went with the rise of incidents in Egypt which highlighted the fact that they were walking a fine line financially.

Blimey, they are names of the past, both of whom we flew with back in the 1980's out of Bristol!  

Dan Air was certainly flying on a budget, but Air Europe were damn good with excellent in flight food, everything spotless and at the top of their game in their sector of the industry.

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, two Thomas Cook Airlines are still operating... Condor and Thomas Cook Balearics.

It would seem that they are separate from the parent group somehow

[TheBoy]

Their demise was a combo of

Exchange rate, particularly against euro and dollar, causing many people to to book foreign holidays
Exchange rate against dollar - fuel price
General UK uncertainty over the last 2 or 3 years due to B word, people staying at home, partly as a wait and see, partly due to...
Recession. Its only just reached technical recession, but reality is its been there for 3 or 4 years
As DG says, many of their popular destinations are unstable, particularly the Arabic ones around the Med

[ronnyd]

Now I'm not normally one for state intervention... 

But I wonder if it would have been cheaper and easier all round for the government to provide funds for TC to wind up operations a bit slower. ie: as of today TC took no new bookings or operated any more trips even those booked and paid for, but saw all current trips through to completion including paying hotels and flights home. 

I read that the repatriation will cost taxpayers £100 million. 

Was listening to Simon Calder, who the BBC asks about all things travel, and he said that he booked  a holiday at midnight (Sun) so TC were still taking money at that late juncture. Suppose they were still hopeful of an eleventh hour reprieve.