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[Lizzie Zoom]

Or a handbag, Lizzie?   

Ron, hiding in a corner somewhere.....

Nah, my handbag was always too heavy to hang there and would have bent the thing  

[Lincs Robert]

Keyless entry when combined with keyless ignition. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

ABS/TC/ESC etc. etc..................all unnecessary if people would just learn to drive properly.

[Andy B]

ABS/TC/ESC etc. etc..................all unnecessary if people would just learn to drive properly.

You can't out brake ABS .....

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

[aaronjb]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

I think Kevin has suggested this already, but perhaps it should be mandatory that your first car be a Lotus 7(alike) No driver aids to save you, no safety zones to make you feel like you're wafting along in a cocoon of bubble wrap..

Also, nobody* reads the road anymore, that much is clear if you spend more than 30 seconds on a motorway..

(*Clearly I think I do, and I'm sure everyone here has the same opinion of themselves .. it just feels like it's nobody.)

[Bigron]

I regret that the age for learning to drive is now the same as for a motorcycle, because the learners now go straight onto cars and don't do their apprenticeship on two wheels, therefore not learning Roadcraft.

Ron.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Or a handbag, Lizzie?   

Ron, hiding in a corner somewhere.....

Nah, my handbag was always too heavy to hang there and would have bent the thing  

I always remember my mum used to hang hers on the gear stick in 'OGO', an early Renault 5 with the shifter sticking out the centre of the dash

[henryd]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

I had a moment on a wet road at night in the Touareg when travelling faster than perhaps I should have been which I'm not sure I would have caught if left to me bearing in mind the inertia of a 2.5 ton offroader trying to do shit that it shouldn't,I was very grateful for the ESP that night which I'd never noticed before in three years driving in it

[Lizzie Zoom]

Or a handbag, Lizzie?   

Ron, hiding in a corner somewhere.....

Nah, my handbag was always too heavy to hang there and would have bent the thing  

I always remember my mum used to hang hers on the gear stick in 'OGO', an early Renault 5 with the shifter sticking out the centre of the dash

Oh yes, I remember that.  My Uncle Reg had one of those in 1969 and I thought it was so funny for some reason!

[Andy B]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.

Ah! I thought perhaps that might be what you meant. 

I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

Same as those that drive a RWD in snow & ice for the first time after they learned in a FWD car ..... they don't get anywhere very fast.
There's a time when ESP/TC/etc should be turned off 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I recently read an article in a car mag where a "motoring journalist" described why rwd is useless in slippery conditions. They not only walk among us, but now they get paid to misinform us. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

I had a moment on a wet road at night in the Touareg when travelling faster than perhaps I should have been which I'm not sure I would have caught if left to me bearing in mind the inertia of a 2.5 ton offroader trying to do shit that it shouldn't,I was very grateful for the ESP that night which I'd never noticed before in three years driving in it

Perhaps if you had been driving an old fashioned car without the aids & gizmos you would have stayed more alert and paid more attention to your speed,and general limitations of your self and your car ?
I hope that doesn't come across as condescending as it isn't meant to. I just believe that modern driver aids tend to make us lazier as drivers when we know the car will help us, up to a point, if we run ourselves into trouble.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

I had a moment on a wet road at night in the Touareg when travelling faster than perhaps I should have been which I'm not sure I would have caught if left to me bearing in mind the inertia of a 2.5 ton offroader trying to do shit that it shouldn't,I was very grateful for the ESP that night which I'd never noticed before in three years driving in it

Perhaps if you had been driving an old fashioned car without the aids & gizmos you would have stayed more alert and paid more attention to your speed,and general limitations of your self and your car ?
I hope that doesn't come across as condescending as it isn't meant to. I just believe that modern driver aids tend to make us lazier as drivers when we know the car will help us, up to a point, if we run ourselves into trouble.

Yep, the other thing about modern cars is that they transmit no feedback to the driver. Without all the power assistance and gizmos you can feel when you're starting to reach the limits of adhesion.

[aaronjb]

Agreed, but in most cases if the driver is perceptive and reading the road ahead, there shouldn't be any need for it.
I (and I would imagine you) managed perfectly well without it for decades. I dread to think what would happen if people who have learnt to drive in the last 25 years were let loose in cars without ABS, TC etc.

I had a moment on a wet road at night in the Touareg when travelling faster than perhaps I should have been which I'm not sure I would have caught if left to me bearing in mind the inertia of a 2.5 ton offroader trying to do shit that it shouldn't,I was very grateful for the ESP that night which I'd never noticed before in three years driving in it

I was behind a Toerag last night on the way home and was reminded that they are fairly handsome cars.. doing less mileage now I'd be sorely tempted by one.

Or an SQ7 .. but I'm not made of money