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[Diamond Black Geezer]

Just wondered if anyone's had any experience on tracing their car's history - specifically the original Dealer which it was sold from? I have no paperwork dating that far back, only some from when she was a rep's car in her first year on the road, but nothing with an address on.

'OH' reg is Birmingham, so unfortunately I have maybe about half a dozen dealers to choose from (many of which I suspect have since closed/merged etc)

Any thoughts? Bit of an odd one, I know 

[BazaJT]

Could be a bit of an awkward one what with data protection and such.I suppose you could try getting in touch with Vx/Opel and giving them chassis number to see if they can tell you which dealer it was shipped to?

[Lagondanet]

Can't you obtain copy of earlier registration docs from dvla for a fiver still?

[Lizzie Zoom]

Yep, my local main Vx dealer Caffyns obtained the build dates for my car.

But, as for individual owners going right back to the first, no idea!  

[2boxerdogs]

Yep, my local main Vx dealer Caffyns obtained the build dates for my car.

But, as for individual owners going right back to the first, no idea!

.



DVLA will supply a list of previous owners cost me £5 in 2007 when I wanted the history of my 190e

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Jimbob found my last Omega, which was registered in December 2003, actually rolled off the production line in Germany in June 2002.

How many muddy fields was it sat in for those 18 months, I wonder.

[TheBoy]

GM EPC lists build date and build spec for any VIN, but only the companies that service them hold any records.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Thanks for the replies people! 

I think that obtaining info via the DVLA is no longer doable unless you have a legitimate excuse, for date protections reasons. The days of writing a letter and discovering Elvis Presley used to own your Cadillac etc are nearly gone. Looking at other classic car forums that seems to be the case, anyway. What a 'legitimate' reason is, I don't know.

That all said, however, I am not really looking for a personal owner (though that would be nice) but just the original retailer. Which surely can't really contravene any data laws - but the DVLA wouldn't hold that info, only registered keepers. 

I have one document - the 12 month annual inspection (circa 1997), which the Dealer has thoughtfully not bothered to stamp in the space provided!

SO... Bit of progress - I have found a 1994 copy of the Dealership Guide - a list of all UK Vx Garages. There are 5 in Brum... only TWO of which are marked as Fleet Garages (she was a Company Car) and one Company bought all the Vx Franchises for Birmingham in 2002.  That company are still going - Lookers Group. SO if they didnt sell her, they bought the garage that did.

NO idea if theyd hold records, but next thought...

How are numberplates assigned their 'area codes'? OH is Birmingham, as are about a dozen others OV, OM, OA etc - do they work like postcodes, or are they distributed 'evenly' in a given area. So a car anywhere in Birmingham may get the code OH, or would it have to be from, eg: the NE corner only.. Anyone have a clue?

 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

PS Ta TB 

[BazaJT]

As said in my original reply try writing/getting in touch with the factory with your chassis number they should hold records as to which dealer the car was shipped out to.I know with our local Ford dealers[so presumably all dealers are the same]DVLA would issue "blocks" of registration numbers for them to use and they could be one of two [FW and FV for instance] choices so in your example the answer would be no one particular set of letters doesn't really pin it to one "locality".

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Ta    But, as you say, for example - if one dealer (as I've now narrowed it down to two) were issued with letter codes OX, OY and OH, and the other was issued that year with OV, OB and OA for instance, then we'd know that she had to have been registered at the first dealer 

All good info 

[TheBoy]

That’s not the way it works normally, as they are issued very small blocks of maybe 20 at a time

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Ahhh fine! Just a thought (perhaps a shade optimistic)

But any information is good information. I wonder if AndyC, or indeed anyone else at a main dealer would be able to punch in a chassis number and find out where it was delivered. (perhaps, again, a tad optimistic)

[VXL V6]

If its a Birmingham dealer then the original ones I know of were Colliers (Dorridge + elsewhere), Evans Halshaw (Shirley - they crashed my Cavalier company car on a test drive) and Elt Bros (Yardley Wood)

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Aye, cheers mate 

Yes the ones I have narrowed it down to are Elt Bros Ltd, 109 Amington Road and Ryland Birmingham - now both Lookers.

Checking Google streetview (brilliant thing) if you look up their addresses Elt seem to be still trading - the showroom rather sadly gutted but signs up claiming 'spares dept still open' but the other seems to have been knocked down and replaced with flats.

However, as I say, Lookers have bought both and so if they've chosen to keep the information, there is still a functioning organization that could have access to it. I can well see the ring binder long since slung out of course. But it's technically possible.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

brick wall... 

I've narrowed it down to (theoretically) two garages, I've called the Dealers who bought those sites, Lookers, who have nothing on their system, put through to Vaux's Customer Services, who couldn't find my VIN on the system (!) and so werent able to help.
Had a brainwave - the car was, as part of a Fleet, of course serviced by a Main Dealer until 2002, this would in theory be the same Dealer that sold it in the first place. If they have even one record of my car being serviced there, then bingo, that should be the original retailer. ... So called the physical site of the one remaining old dealer - which are no longer sales, but just a parts dept, the guy was very helpful, tried the Lookers and the GM system. Can prove the car exists (thank God my car hasn't been fictitious for all these years)but nothing regarding anything else. Again, he can only search as far back as when they were bought out, so 2007ish, nothing before.

No dusty old ledgers with lists of cars serviced there, I did ask! Unless I can find the old service manual (neither me nor the previous owner are sure we ever had it) I'm stumped for now...   

[dave the builder]

I worked for Autolease back in the day (Birmingham based, changed to Loyds TSB autolease and now lex autolease )
they leased to many companys nationwide ,purchasing from many dealers and cars got serviced local to where the client was
I suspect there are many such fleet lease companys ,even just in Brum 

[STEMO]

brick wall... 

I've narrowed it down to (theoretically) two garages, I've called the Dealers who bought those sites, Lookers, who have nothing on their system, put through to Vaux's Customer Services, who couldn't find my VIN on the system (!) and so werent able to help.
Had a brainwave - the car was, as part of a Fleet, of course serviced by a Main Dealer until 2002, this would in theory be the same Dealer that sold it in the first place. If they have even one record of my car being serviced there, then bingo, that should be the original retailer. ... So called the physical site of the one remaining old dealer - which are no longer sales, but just a parts dept, the guy was very helpful, tried the Lookers and the GM system. Can prove the car exists (thank God my car hasn't been fictitious for all these years)but nothing regarding anything else. Again, he can only search as far back as when they were bought out, so 2007ish, nothing before.

No dusty old ledgers with lists of cars serviced there, I did ask! Unless I can find the old service manual (neither me nor the previous owner are sure we ever had it) I'm stumped for now...   

Oh well. Now that that's over, life is waiting for you.

[Lizzie Zoom]

brick wall... 

I've narrowed it down to (theoretically) two garages, I've called the Dealers who bought those sites, Lookers, who have nothing on their system, put through to Vaux's Customer Services, who couldn't find my VIN on the system (!) and so werent able to help.
Had a brainwave - the car was, as part of a Fleet, of course serviced by a Main Dealer until 2002, this would in theory be the same Dealer that sold it in the first place. If they have even one record of my car being serviced there, then bingo, that should be the original retailer. ... So called the physical site of the one remaining old dealer - which are no longer sales, but just a parts dept, the guy was very helpful, tried the Lookers and the GM system. Can prove the car exists (thank God my car hasn't been fictitious for all these years)but nothing regarding anything else. Again, he can only search as far back as when they were bought out, so 2007ish, nothing before.

No dusty old ledgers with lists of cars serviced there, I did ask! Unless I can find the old service manual (neither me nor the previous owner are sure we ever had it) I'm stumped for now...   

Funny you should say that. I remember some confirmed cases of Ford cars managing to "depart" the Dagenham, or was it Halewood, plant in the 1970's without being registered i.e. they had been nicked and officially never built!!

Rather like the Jonny Cash hit, one piece at a time, but in these cases it was the whole car!

[Webby the Bear]

Curious why you’d like the info? Mine was down in Hereford (wherever that is 😂). And had it’s first oil change after 22k miles according to the book. That service schedule has increased to once a month 😂😂😂😂

[omegod]

Funny you should say that. I remember some confirmed cases of Ford cars managing to "depart" the Dagenham, or was it Halewood, plant in the 1970's without being registered i.e. they had been nicked and officially never built!!

Rather like the Jonny Cash hit, one piece at a time, but in these cases it was the whole car!
[/quote]

I drink with a couple of old Ford lads, they have some good tales from the old days, if one of their own cars was going down the line they tended to get all the extras possible bolted to them, one of them managed to cobble together a 4 door RS2000 allegedly

[BazaJT]

That probably happened at all car plants it certainly did at Ellesmere Port

[STEMO]

When I worked at Ellesmere Port one lad collapsed right outside the security lodge, went down with a hell of a thump. When they undid his huge overcoat, he had an engine block strapped around his neck.

[Lizzie Zoom]

That probably happened at all car plants it certainly did at Ellesmere Port

Apart from the British Leyland plants covered by Red Robbo.  There they built no cars even to nick or load with extras!

[BazaJT]

Would anyone have wanted to nick one of their cars

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Just to answer a couple of Qs, I'm interested because ...

1. I think it's interesting discovering history
2. I'm actually trying to get a new set of numberplates made up, and if I'm going to get them, they might as well be the 'most right' they can be. So finding the original dealer's name on them would be brilliant.

I worked for Autolease back in the day (Birmingham based, changed to Loyds TSB autolease and now lex autolease )
they leased to many companys nationwide ,purchasing from many dealers and cars got serviced local to where the client was
I suspect there are many such fleet lease companys ,even just in Brum 

That's in interesting spin, thanks. I've noticed my oldest MoT certificate from when the car should have still been a company car was MoT'd in Staffordshire!

[BazaJT]

If it started out life as a lease car the chances are pretty high that it wouldn't have dealer plates on it.Lease companies tend to supply the dealer with a set of overmats[complete with their logo on them] and a set of plates with for example Lex Autolease where the dealer name would normally be.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Would anyone have wanted to nick one of their cars

Very true!!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just to answer a couple of Qs, I'm interested because ...

1. I think it's interesting discovering history
2. I'm actually trying to get a new set of numberplates made up, and if I'm going to get them, they might as well be the 'most right' they can be. So finding the original dealer's name on them would be brilliant.

I worked for Autolease back in the day (Birmingham based, changed to Loyds TSB autolease and now lex autolease )
they leased to many companys nationwide ,purchasing from many dealers and cars got serviced local to where the client was
I suspect there are many such fleet lease companys ,even just in Brum 

That's in interesting spin, thanks. I've noticed my oldest MoT certificate from when the car should have still been a company car was MoT'd in Staffordshire!

Yes, that is really possible in the case of cars supplied by a lease company as Dave has stated.  I had company cars leased by my company centrally, in London, but they were all looked after by my local Vx dealer in Patchway, Bristol.  Therefore where the lease was taken out can bear no relationship with the service history.

As for the "right" plates; I just got my Vx main dealer to supply a new set with all the Vauxhall details on it.  That is probably the best you are going to get, especially if your car is an ex-lease vehicle from the likes of Autolease.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

All good info, ta! 


Sadly I have zero clue who actually leased her / who the Company car actually belonged to etc. I'll hold my hands up I'm not entirely clued up on how 'a company car' process works. Having never owned a car newer than 15 years 

[Lizzie Zoom]

All good info, ta! 


Sadly I have zero clue who actually leased her / who the Company car actually belonged to etc. I'll hold my hands up I'm not entirely clued up on how 'a company car' process works. Having never owned a car newer than 15 years 

Well, put simply, in the old days companies, such as the one I worked for over 28 years, used to buy their cars from a main dealer that would give them he best deal, allowing for the fact they would acquire dozens over a year.  This could be a dealer close to the head office, or one miles away.  Whatever, the employee who would be allocated the new car to would collect the vehicle from the dealer, then drive it away to their region of operation anywhere in the country.  The car would then be serviced / repaired by a local main dealer to the employee until 18 months - 2 years were up (dependant on mileage) then driven back to the dealer providing the new company car, and so it went on.

In modern days companies such as the one I worked for decided it was far more economical, and made the Profit & Loss accounts showing better use of company money away from a fixed cost being depreciated, to use vehicles that were leased.  For one monthly fee the company would have all servicing covered, and not have to pay the normal purchase price of a car all up front, with capital tied up, only to be depreciated.  This way it was / is a fixed fee being paid on a regular basis, with a new vehicle provided at the end with no consideration of 'resale value' having to be calculated.  The Property and Financial Directors also had an easier time!

As a side issue some companies, such as mine, used to own their stores and general housing property stock with capital being tied up.  It was then realised that we were not a property business and should not be tying up capital in that way, instead investing it in our core business.  Therefore, again, our property was sold off to specialist property and development companies releasing capital, with the property then leased back.

The trend for private individuals to lease their vehicles seems to have increased, judging by the deals being offered by the main car  manufacturers.  In short it has all the advantages of what I have described above, with crucially for a private buyer excludes the need to lay out say £20K for a vehicle in one go.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Thank you very much! That's informative as always 


Like I say, my reasons are it'd be nice to make a 'replica' of a period number plate (I have a company that will do the correct 1990s font - it changed in 2001) even if she never actually had that particular dealer's name on the plate, it would be a nice detail.

It probably looks rather 'sad' from most people's perspectives on here, but move forward a few years and there's plenty of people - and demand - for 'correct' 'period' plates for 80s and before motors. When you see a 1972 Triumph or whatever wearing modern white and yellow plates with a EU block on one side it really does look wrong. 

[78bex]

Thank you very much! That's informative as always 


Like I say, my reasons are it'd be nice to make a 'replica' of a period number plate (I have a company that will do the correct 1990s font - it changed in 2001) even if she never actually had that particular dealer's name on the plate, it would be a nice detail.

It probably looks rather 'sad' from most people's perspectives on here, but move forward a few years and there's plenty of people - and demand - for 'correct' 'period' plates for 80s and before motors. When you see a 1972 Triumph or whatever wearing modern white and yellow plates with a EU block on one side it really does look wrong. 

Now stop being a `Sad Geezer`  come on what name have you given her 

[BazaJT]

IIRC he calls her a not entirely flattering "Pissy"

[Diamond Black Geezer]

 

Yep!

Her reg is P151 HOH, so she became known As 'Pissy Ho' within about 5 seconds of arriving up the drive all those years ago.. 

Obviously a lady of the night with cystitis became contracted to just 'Pissy' which is far more polite