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[Exec]

I am refering to this throttle comment about only one getting fed until another valve opens.....whcih si very wrong.

The dimensions of the mantzel unit would be interesting and any details of the internals.

sorry bud dont understand what you mean there ??
the butterfly located in the air intake alloy assembly directly before the throttle body air feed pipes. you say im wrong this doesnt open permiting more air to the right hand body ? :-/

i don't understand you guys too

if you're talking about this:


it opens at about 3200rpm to equalize the pressure in both pipes


another one is in the plenum, it opens at about 4500rpm as far as i remember

[v6venom]

thats the 1 ..i played about and took the butterfly out to see how no restrictions helped with my cam set up ...

deffo helped a bit at low down revs ..

[Exec]

Also wonder why a resonator box would help, it would upset the airflow more than anything, esp since you are limted to the airflow in in the first place by the single AFM? So striaght pipes would surely be the answer?

with the resonator, the air has about 1meter shorter way from the filter to the engine!

so imagine - you press the accelerator pedal, engine starts to take a lot of air, and for the moment you've got some underpressure in this 1m pipe...

[Exec]

thats the 1 ..i played about and took the butterfly out to see how no restrictions helped with my cam set up ...

deffo helped a bit at low down revs ..

well, if you take it out, engine will get more air, but it won't know about it - i mean, the flowmeter should notice that the engine gets more air, and it fact the flowmeter noticed, that the engine got less air, because more air was taken from the butterfly hole...


geez, i hope you understand me, i don't know the technical words, part names etc in english

[Marks DTM Calib]

thats the 1 ..i played about and took the butterfly out to see how no restrictions helped with my cam set up ...

deffo helped a bit at low down revs ..

Well it shouldn't.

Inlet and air speed theory means that low down torque will help is you ahev two long thinner inlets.......and hecne how multiram works!

[Marks DTM Calib]

thats the 1 ..i played about and took the butterfly out to see how no restrictions helped with my cam set up ...

deffo helped a bit at low down revs ..

well, if you take it out, engine will get more air, but it won't know about it - i mean, the flowmeter should notice that the engine gets more air, and it fact the flowmeter noticed, that the engine got less air, because more air was taken from the butterfly hole...


geez, i hope you understand me, i don't know the technical words, part names etc in english

No.....I dont understand you at all.

ALL air must pass through the MAF.....therefore the MAF will measure all the air unless you have an air leak  

[Albatross]

All fascinating, but you should get yourself some proper shock absorbers, disconnect the self levelling system all together and remove the fuse / relay that sets teh system off.

Putting lower springs on it and leaving the self-levelling shocks will make it handle a bit wierd.

I had self levelling and now I run a full MV6 suspension set up. Trust me I tried what you have done and it is cr$p. Do it properly.

Plenum looks very nice too, but it is rough with a large surface area for a reason as far as I know. (heat dissipation)

Not sure what you're trying to do with that metal box at the front yet, but have you had the engine remapped?

Love the LSD

[Exec]

thats the 1 ..i played about and took the butterfly out to see how no restrictions helped with my cam set up ...

deffo helped a bit at low down revs ..

well, if you take it out, engine will get more air, but it won't know about it - i mean, the flowmeter should notice that the engine gets more air, and it fact the flowmeter noticed, that the engine got less air, because more air was taken from the butterfly hole...


geez, i hope you understand me, i don't know the technical words, part names etc in english

No.....I dont understand you at all.

ALL air must pass through the MAF.....therefore the MAF will measure all the air unless you have an air leak  

yes, it's all true, and this is what i wanted to say

if you want to give the engine more air, the MAF has to measure it

[Exec]

All fascinating, but you should get yourself some proper shock absorbers, disconnect the self levelling system all together and remove the fuse / relay that sets teh system off.

Putting lower springs on it and leaving the self-levelling shocks will make it handle a bit wierd.

I had self levelling and now I run a full MV6 suspension set up. Trust me I tried what you have done and it is cr$p. Do it properly.

Plenum looks very nice too, but it is rouch with a large surface area for a reason as far as I know.

Not sure what you're trying to do with that metal box at the front yet, but have you had the engine remapped?

Love the LSD

well, the self levelling system seems to work fine, i can even say, it keeps perfect height now, the car also drives well

maybe you had old absorbers that didn't work properly...
mine keep the car stable


the box:
same as mine
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1177068349/0

and here is original mantzel resonator box
http://cgi.ebay.de/Mantzel-Powerresonator-Opel-Omega-B-MV-V6-Tuning_W0QQitemZ330260601914QQihZ014QQcategoryZ40186QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

the engine is not remapped... yet

[Kevin Wood]

with the resonator, the air has about 1meter shorter way from the filter to the engine!

so imagine - you press the accelerator pedal, engine starts to take a lot of air, and for the moment you've got some underpressure in this 1m pipe...

Shorter isn't necessarily better though. Most engine developers struggle to get enough length into the induction system due to lack of underbonnet space. It's crucial for decent torque at low revs that the engine has a decent length of intake tract. Shortening it might pick up a few BHP at the rev limiter but you'll lose a few tens of lb.ft down at low revs, and in a heavy car like an Omega you need that more.

The multiram system gives you the best of both worlds. An intake tract that adjusts with engine RPM. I suspect that, if it feels faster now, it's because you have poor torque at low RPM which picks up as the revs rise. A peaky engine always feels faster than one with a flat torque delivery but the same peak power.

Kevin

[Exec]

with the resonator, the air has about 1meter shorter way from the filter to the engine!

so imagine - you press the accelerator pedal, engine starts to take a lot of air, and for the moment you've got some underpressure in this 1m pipe...

Shorter isn't necessarily better though. Most engine developers struggle to get enough length into the induction system due to lack of underbonnet space. It's crucial for decent torque at low revs that the engine has a decent length of intake tract. Shortening it might pick up a few BHP at the rev limiter but you'll lose a few tens of lb.ft down at low revs, and in a heavy car like an Omega you need that more.

The multiram system gives you the best of both worlds. An intake tract that adjusts with engine RPM. I suspect that, if it feels faster now, it's because you have poor torque at low RPM which picks up as the revs rise. A peaky engine always feels faster than one with a flat torque delivery but the same peak power.

Kevin

believe me, this multi ram suck, you would say the same, if you have installed the box!

there's no moment (low or high rpm, doesn't matter) that you have less hp or Nm, you feel the kick on low rpm, and high either
you step on the pedal and the engine gets the power immediately

of course, it's not like you had 50hp more, but there really is a diffirence after installing the box...

the only disadvantage of using this box is a bit more noisy air intake (original air filter) but with my cone air filter i found it slightly less noisy!

[Albatross]

All fascinating, but you should get yourself some proper shock absorbers, disconnect the self levelling system all together and remove the fuse / relay that sets teh system off.

Putting lower springs on it and leaving the self-levelling shocks will make it handle a bit wierd.

I had self levelling and now I run a full MV6 suspension set up. Trust me I tried what you have done and it is cr$p. Do it properly.

Plenum looks very nice too, but it is rouch with a large surface area for a reason as far as I know.

Not sure what you're trying to do with that metal box at the front yet, but have you had the engine remapped?

Love the LSD

well, the self levelling system seems to work fine, i can even say, it keeps perfect height now, the car also drives well

maybe you had old absorbers that didn't work properly...
mine keep the car stable


the box:
same as mine
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1177068349/0

and here is original mantzel resonator box
http://cgi.ebay.de/Mantzel-Powerresonator-Opel-Omega-B-MV-V6-Tuning_W0QQitemZ330260601914QQihZ014QQcategoryZ40186QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

the engine is not remapped... yet

No substitute for shocks that are designed for the length and stiffness of springs you have on there now though. You may have a stable car at the right height in your opinion, but you won't know what you're missing until you put the right shocks on.

My self-levelling shocks were fine and are now fitted to another car.

[Kevin Wood]

believe me, this multi ram suck, you would say the same, if you have installed the box!

there's no moment (low or high rpm, doesn't matter) that you have less hp or Nm, you feel the kick on low rpm, and high either
you step on the pedal and the engine gets the power immediately

of course, it's not like you had 50hp more, but there really is a diffirence after installing the box...

the only disadvantage of using this box is a bit more noisy air intake (original air filter) but with my cone air filter i found it slightly less noisy!

That's the other tough challenge with intake design. The intake can be louder than the exhaust if you're not careful, and if you're prepared to live with a little more noise I'm sure there are gains to be had. Remember to keep the intake air cool though.

Kevin

[CateraMV6]

Ok I am reading this huge post and I dont know where to even start...

Has any of you ever had some course or info on Fluids and Flows!... perhaps you guys should look into that and then talk about the difference between the OEM set up and the Other design...
Car companies would love to save money in any way they can and if they get rid of that chunky valve body before the throtle plates and all those clamps hoses and connections beleive me they will...

The idea is however to create a specific flow at all speeds in order to create a torque curve that is nice and flat so the car is a blast to drive at any speed...

The combination of the valves allows for steady non turbulent flow to be created at various RPMs, and the Mantzel box has a sweet 90° bend that is absolutely NO-NO for air flow... Air doesnt like to turn at 90°...
The MAF sensor creates a lot of turublance and thast bad for flow... so they had to try to elongate the path to smooth that flow out before it hit the throtle body...

BTW Turbulance is terrible for flow.. it actually restricts flow...

The one thing I can see happening is this... when you step on it.. the matzel box has a give air volume in the chamber right in front of the TBs and with that it allows the engine to tap into that give volume of air right off the get go.. and so you notice the nice kick in the seat... but when the RPMs start to increase I be the torque curve is no longer nice and flat, it probably looks more like the HP curve...

That box I think hurts air flow in many ways... To get more air in the engine you need to increase the diameter of the MAF... and all the pipes and even the Throtle bodies...
If you are not using foced induction you can not get more air into that engine though the small opening of the throtle bodies...


I bet if you looked at a dyno chart before and after... you will see what will happen...
if you like the drivability of the car that way, thats fine...

I will post my dyno charts soon...and you guys can see how much of an improvement the Two mufflers had on the power of the engine...

A better design would be someting where the pipe comes out of the MAF and then splits into two and curves smoothly into the throtle bodies... that i think will have a nice effect on air flow...

More on that later... I got to do some more reasearch on the Mantzel to see why the offer such increase in HP/TQ

[cem_devecioglu]

Ok I am reading this huge post and I dont know where to even start...

Has any of you ever had some course or info on Fluids and Flows!... perhaps you guys should look into that and then talk about the difference between the OEM set up and the Other design...
Car companies would love to save money in any way they can and if they get rid of that chunky valve body before the throtle plates and all those clamps hoses and connections beleive me they will... The idea is however to create a specific flow at all speeds in order to create a torque curve that is nice and flat so the car is a blast to drive at any speed...

The combination of the valves allows for steady non turbulent flow to be created at various RPMs, and the Mantzel box has a sweet 90° bend that is absolutely NO-NO for air flow... Air doesnt like to turn at 90°... The MAF sensor creates a lot of turublance and thast bad for flow... so they had to try to elongate the path to smooth that flow out before it hit the throtle body...

BTW Turbulance is terrible for flow.. it actually restricts flow... The one thing I can see happening is this... when you step on it.. the matzel box has a give air volume in the chamber right in front of the TBs and with that it allows the engine to tap into that give volume of air right off the get go.. and so you notice the nice kick in the seat... but when the RPMs start to increase I be the torque curve is no longer nice and flat, it probably looks more like the HP curve...

That box I think hurts air flow in many ways... To get more air in the engine you need to increase the diameter of the MAF... and all the pipes and even the Throtle bodies...
If you are not using foced induction you can not get more air into that engine though the small opening of the throtle bodies...I bet if you looked at a dyno chart before and after... you will see what will happen...
if you like the drivability of the car that way, thats fine...

I will post my dyno charts soon...and you guys can see how much of an improvement the Two mufflers had on the power of the engine...

A better design would be someting where the pipe comes out of the MAF and then splits into two and curves smoothly into the throtle bodies... that i think will have a nice effect on air flow...

More on that later... I got to do some more reasearch on the Mantzel to see why the offer such increase in HP/TQ

yep..

turbulent flow will drop the torque values..and that 90 degrees turn is wrong from the fluid flow theory..

initially ready air gives a kick but later will fail..and the position of cone filter is wrong..Will take too much hot air.. :-/