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[zirk]

Chris,
          Toledodudes ECU failure was the first that almost all on here had ever  heard of  . . .  I'm thinking that it could  be the start of it being  a more common occurance on the 2.6 /3.2 models due to the ongoing age of the engine ECU's on  these models .

With Pauls one  .  . the general opinion was that something was mis informing the ECU  . .  A change of ECU & it's related bits

sorted the problem  for him  . . . so if there was another fault  elsewhere . . surely the "new" ECU would have acted the same &

played up 

Setting up a temporary  replacement ECU & it's required  bits ,  as Paul did ,  to see if the fault is fixed would be my way of going

on this I think .

You might be right Al, not ruling out a faulty ECU, but something is just nagging me, its not that.

Could have been with Paul that swopping Ecu's he may or may not have undisturbed something that was related to the problem. 

[zirk]

The flashing EML is an indication of an imobilisor problem preventing the engine starting ...perhaps the immobilsor system is sending odd signals to the ECU even when it allows starting ??

Its the EML and Spanner light, its not a constant flash rate, sometimes rapid, intermittent and sometime stops for a few seconds, when it stops flashing this is the only chance you get to start it, ie, before it starts flashing again.

That actually makes sense ... as while its flashing the imobilsor is saying "not allowed to start", once it stops flashing its happy to allow a start ...

Question now is why is the imobilisor upset, and intermittently so ... not the key as you've tried both, so, ... have you disturbed the detector ring at the ignition key area ?? have you checked the wiring around the ignition key area ..... as thats were the detector is ...

Just random thoughts as I think its imobilisor linked ...

Thanks Entwood, wilst Im not ruling out an imobillsor issue, Im kind of drawn to it not being that, reason being, in my eperience, of the FL's once the 'No or wrong Transponder' is dedected by the system, you generally have to go through the motions of a reset before the thing will allow you to start again, ie, key out, lock door, unlock door, right key back in again, start.

Without doing the reset, even with the right key, it shouldn't let you start, so why if theres an intermittent issue, is it letting me start occasionally? without doing the reset. Which I have tried of course.

AS said not ruling it out, as starting to run out of ideas now, in the absence of another ECU.

Obviously I appreciate all ideas and will check the connections ECU mobile net to the Ing. 

[zirk]

Just been out to have another play. 

Just dont know, kinda getting hooked on the idea its a Fuel issue, possible not priming to pressure correctly and the ECU somehow stuck in a cycle, telling it to do it all over again?

Thoughts anyone

[05omegav6]

Swap both purple relays from a known working car

[zirk]

Swap both purple relays from a known working car

Thanks, already done that. 

[05omegav6]

Swap both purple relays from a known working car

Thanks, already done that. 

Ecu or wiring then

Or water between the two...

[Kevin Wood]

What are you using to read the codes? They aren't valid for that ECU, so wondering if the code reader is telling porkies. 

The ECU is clearly upset with something immediately after switch-on.

First things first: is the battery voltage holding up? If you turn on the headlights on main beam, then the ignition, do they remain on nice and bright while the ECU goes through its' initialisation?

Next: Throttle body actuator and position sensors.. Could they have got damp inside them? Is there damp inside the connector? I'm guessing the first thing the ECU does is to check the range of the throttle position actuator and set it ready for starting.

Worth checking the fusible link above the battery + terminal. I believe the 30A one drives the engine electronics. Check it hasn't got drowned and the contacts are clean. Ditto the 2 purple relays. Presumably they looked OK?

[zirk]

Quick question please, which relay(S) are controled from Ing (Ing on position, engine not started  yet)

And if poss which fuse feeds climate panel, Ta.

[Kevin Wood]

The main relay (purple, at the back of engine bay fuse box, nearest to engine) should pull in with the ignition on. It's not directly controlled by the ignition switch, but by the ECU, which gets another feed from the V pin on the ignition switch to tell it the ignition switch is on.

All engine components with the exception of the coil packs and fuel pump are fed from this relay via the 30A fusible link.

Fuel pump is fed by the other purple relay via fuse 18 in the passenger compartment fuse box.

Coil packs are fed straight from the V pin on the ignition switch.

Climate control panel is fed from V pin via fuse 14 in the passenger compartment. It also gets a permanent feed via fuse 12.

[zirk]

The main relay (purple, at the back of engine bay fuse box, nearest to engine) should pull in with the ignition on. It's not directly controlled by the ignition switch, but by the ECU, which gets another feed from the V pin on the ignition switch to tell it the ignition switch is on.

All engine components with the exception of the coil packs and fuel pump are fed from this relay via the 30A fusible link.

Fuel pump is fed by the other purple relay via fuse 18 in the passenger compartment fuse box.

Coil packs are fed straight from the V pin on the ignition switch.

Climate control panel is fed from V pin via fuse 14 in the passenger compartment. It also gets a permanent feed via fuse 12.

Thanks Kevin, and I'll post a reply to your other questions in a mo.

[zirk]

What are you using to read the codes? They aren't valid for that ECU, so wondering if the code reader is telling porkies. 

A simple ODB Phone Bluetooth Reader, its telling me code 2105 is not available, but shows that code  when the  spanner comes on if and when it runs.

The ECU is clearly upset with something immediately after switch-on.

Yep, or could be ECU but Im not convinced about that.

First things first: is the battery voltage holding up? If you turn on the headlights on main beam, then the ignition, do they remain on nice and bright while the ECU goes through its' initialisation?

Yep battery fine, currently alternating between two batteries to keep on top of all that, both batts good at 12.6V, Alternator 14.v

Next: Throttle body actuator and position sensors.. Could they have got damp inside them? Is there damp inside the connector? I'm guessing the first thing the ECU does is to check the range of the throttle position actuator and set it ready for starting.

Checked connectors seem ok.

Worth checking the fusible link above the battery + terminal. I believe the 30A one drives the engine electronics. Check it hasn't got drowned and the contacts are clean. Ditto the 2 purple relays. Presumably they looked OK?

Checked all big fuses for corrosion etc, seem fine, Purple Relays swaped from another Car.

[Big_Al]

Hi Chris,
              bit of a bugger this eh ?

I know I keep refering to Toledodudes problem  . . . but this seems exactly what he had  . . .

as shown in the very long thread on that subject from May/June last year  . .  he tried all manner of suggested solutions all to no avail . . .

As soon as he borrowed  a "temporary" ECU / imobiliser ring & chip, as a  replacement, all was fine , problem fixed .

He then went on to buy a replacement ECU & bits  , fitted them & car has been A1 since then .

The only thing we don't know about that is  . . . was it a fault  in the actual ECU   or a fault in the imobiliser ring/chip.

As these bits come matched to the ECU (I think) we will never know if that was the case .

My suggestion would have been to ask Albs to lend you a ECU & bits for trial purpose as Paul did

  .  .but he's not here anymore  

With Pauls car we tried all the relays , fuel pump issues , changed throttle bodies, changed pot, and checked ,cleaned ~& lubricated all the ECU & main loom multiway connectors  all to no avail 

My money is still on an  ECU or the  imobiliser parts failure

[zirk]

Hi Chris,
              bit of a bugger this eh ?

I know I keep refering to Toledodudes problem  . . . but this seems exactly what he had  . . .

as shown in the very long thread on that subject from May/June last year  . .  he tried all manner of suggested solutions all to no avail . . .

As soon as he borrowed  a "temporary" ECU / imobiliser ring & chip, as a  replacement, all was fine , problem fixed .

He then went on to buy a replacement ECU & bits  , fitted them & car has been A1 since then .

The only thing we don't know about that is  . . . was it a fault  in the actual ECU   or a fault in the imobiliser ring/chip.

As these bits come matched to the ECU (I think) we will never know if that was the case .

My suggestion would have been to ask Albs to lend you a ECU & bits for trial purpose as Paul did

  .  .but he's not here anymore  

With Pauls car we tried all the relays , fuel pump issues , changed throttle bodies, changed pot, and checked ,cleaned ~& lubricated all the ECU & main loom multiway connectors  all to no avail 

My money is still on an  ECU or the  imobiliser parts failure

Hi Al, well just come in for a cuppa, been on it all day and its driving me mad, I'll list what Ive done later.

Yep, Im up for an ECU change, can get my hands on a 2.6 in a short while, so willing to give it a go, even though Im still convinced its a fuel prime issue.

Just had a play all around the Transponder and Ing, Switch area.

Out of interest how do these Transponder mobiliser modules come off, last one I did was on a 3.0 and that just pulled off the Ing outer, this one on the 3.2 doesn't what to play, is there a trick as last thing I wont to do is break the bloody thing. 

[Big_Al]

Hi Chris,
              bit of a bugger this eh ?

I know I keep refering to Toledodudes problem  . . . but this seems exactly what he had  . . .

as shown in the very long thread on that subject from May/June last year  . .  he tried all manner of suggested solutions all to no avail . . .

As soon as he borrowed  a "temporary" ECU / imobiliser ring & chip, as a  replacement, all was fine , problem fixed .

He then went on to buy a replacement ECU & bits  , fitted them & car has been A1 since then .

The only thing we don't know about that is  . . . was it a fault  in the actual ECU   or a fault in the imobiliser ring/chip.

As these bits come matched to the ECU (I think) we will never know if that was the case .

My suggestion would have been to ask Albs to lend you a ECU & bits for trial purpose as Paul did

  .  .but he's not here anymore  

With Pauls car we tried all the relays , fuel pump issues , changed throttle bodies, changed pot, and checked ,cleaned ~& lubricated all the ECU & main loom multiway connectors  all to no avail 

My money is still on an  ECU or the  imobiliser parts failure

Hi Al, well just come in for a cuppa, been on it all day and its driving me mad, I'll list what Ive done later.

Yep, Im up for an ECU change, can get my hands on a 2.6 in a short while, so willing to give it a go, even though Im still convinced its a fuel prime issue.

Just had a play all around the Transponder and Ing, Switch area.

Out of interest how do these Transponder mobiliser modules come off, last one I did was on a 3.0 and that just pulled off the Ing outer, this one on the 3.2 doesn't what to play, is there a trick as last thing I wont to do is break the bloody thing. 

Ah !      not sure on that ,as I was not present at Pauls car when he changed it over .  Taxi Al or Rob G will probably know though . If not someone will enlighten you 

[zirk]

Ah !      not sure on that ,as I was not present at Pauls car when he changed it over .  Taxi Al or Rob G will probably know though . If not someone will enlighten you

Cheers Al, think I'll post that one in the Electrical Section, think most have got bored reading this thread now,