Topic: Aircon overhaul? (Read 4857 times)

The Barge Captain · « **on:** 17 April 2007, 10:47:48 »

What with summer being on it's way and all, and the aircon in my car never having worked since i bought it last autum, then its time to get it sorted. Now at £40 + vat for a re-gas i wouldn't like to waste too much money on this if it is no good.
So i'm wondering if there is any point in stripping out and replacing seals or anything else that is likely to give me a problem before i get it gassed?
Any part numbers would be handy.
Thanks.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 April 2007, 10:58:05 »

Does the system still have any gas in it?

This will tell you if it's leaky or not. Gauges from the likes of Halfords can measure the low side pressure and give you some idea of the system condition. Alternatively, does the compressor run when the air con's on? There is a pressure switch which stops the compressor running if the pressure is low.

TBH, for 40 quid there's not much you could do yourself. A pressure gauge would cost a good chunk of that.

If they're any good, as part of the service, they should evacuate the system, check for leaks, change the dryer if necessary and refill with the correct quantity of refrigerant and compressor lubricant. Ask if they're going to do these steps. If they're going to just squirt some gas in go elsewhere.

Kevin

The Barge Captain · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 April 2007, 11:10:36 »

If i turn the eco swith off (no light on the buton) the clutch engages on the compressor, so i guess the lp switch isn't tripped.

x25xe · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 April 2007, 11:22:59 »

As Kevin says. By the fact that the compressor is engaging, I would suspect that there is gas in the system therefore fairly safe to say that there are no leaks. As Kevin says, a decent outfit will check for leaks in any case.

It is vital that they do the service as already said above. After it is done and the system is working again, make sure that you run the air con for a minimum of 10 minutes at least twice a month. This keep the seals is the system nice a moist and prevents them drying out.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 April 2007, 11:36:45 »

If it still has gas pressure but, is low.....there is no need to vac the system as no mositure will have got in or oil got out....in which case its a simple top up....

Matchless · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 April 2007, 13:23:12 »

If the clutch is engaging then there is some refrigerant still in it and if its been like that for 6 months or so then its as gas tight as any.
Take it to be topped-up, they will be able to tell from the gauges if the compressor is working properly and check that the expansion valve is regulating correctly. Hopefully it just needs the top-up to restore cooling.

The Barge Captain · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 April 2007, 23:34:13 »

Checked that the compressor is still engaging thisalvo, and the flippin thing isn't any more

It used to a couple of months ago.
Can i link out the pressure switch (where is it?) for a few moments just to prove that there isn't a problem with the electrics / clutch on the compressor?

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 April 2007, 09:31:04 »

Quote

Can i link out the pressure switch (where is it?) for a few moments just to prove that there isn't a problem with the electrics / clutch on the compressor?

It would probably be easy to do by shorting the pins on the pressure switch but I wouldn't until the system is filled with refrigerant. If there is an electrical issue to sort it will be straightforward once the system is filled whereas if you damage the compressor by running it empty....

Kevin

Jimbob · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 April 2007, 10:11:07 »

Kwikfit, well mine is, are offering Aircon Recharge, or no charge £45
link is on the left side of http://www.kwik-fit.com/mot-testing-and-servicing.asp

May be worth a look.

Mine isnt as cold as I would like so debating beteen them, and my usual guy who I trust at £75 (or was last year)

Text from kwik fit site, sounds fair to me! :

De-mist quicker by using your Air-Con system to create dry warm air rather than the normal humid air from outside. Manufacturers recommend that Air-Con systems are recharged every 2 years.

Without being fully charged, your Air-Con will be less effective - putting more strain on the engine and using more fuel than necessary.

In under an hour, our specially trained technicians will show you the difference in your Air-Con system. We will show you the change in temperature and humidity in the air before and after the recharge.

You only pay with results. If your coolest air-con vent temperature doesn't improve by 10% or more - you pay nothing.*

Air-con recharges are available in 560 Kwik-Fit centres across the UK. Offer applies to retail customers only. Ask in centre for details.

*Please note if the external air temperature around the car is less than 9 degrees Celsiusit may affect the results of the air-conditioning recharge test. In these circumstances it is at the Manager’s discretion whether to offer a refund with results less than 10%.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 April 2007, 10:16:06 »

Quote

Kwikfit, well mine is, are offering Aircon Recharge, or no charge £45

Ask them what they're going to do for that. If they aren't equipped to check the system for leaks and fix any other issues that might exist you'd be just as well off going and buying a can of R134a and squirting some in yourself.

Can of refirgerant plus low side pressure checking gauge is 30 quid on Halfords trade card.

Kevin

Bo Bo · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 April 2007, 10:37:17 »

Quote

Quote
Kwikfit, well mine is, are offering Aircon Recharge, or no charge £45

Ask them what they're going to do for that. If they aren't equipped to check the system for leaks and fix any other issues that might exist you'd be just as well off going and buying a can of R134a and squirting some in yourself.

Can of refirgerant plus low side pressure checking gauge is 30 quid on Halfords trade card.

Kevin

Just gave my local one a call & they said vacuum, pressure test & re-charge with dye, sounds pretty good for £45. I need mine doing & I'm tempted to give them a try...

Jimbob · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 April 2007, 10:56:58 »

aye, me too, the guarantee'd 10%+ improvement is a nice idea.

I presume when they do the 1st measurements, if they reckon it is working well enough they will say no guarantee as we dont think it needs going, but if you insist....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 April 2007, 11:24:42 »

Quote

Just gave my local one a call & they said vacuum, pressure test & re-charge with dye, sounds pretty good for £45. I need mine doing & I'm tempted to give them a try...

In that case it sounds a good deal. May give that a go myself, actually, although I do have an air con specialist just up the road from me. I guess it's a good argument for beating the price down if they want more than 45 quid!

Kevin

cdx25 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 April 2007, 11:27:02 »

Dont know if you get down this way (Plymouth) but I have the proper gauges, vacuum pumps etc. The only problem with topups is that you dont know how much is in there to start with. This is why people use a vac pump to start from zero and then add the right amount of refrigerant. Doing a proper vac down boils off any moisture too which is good. Having said that, you shouldnt have any moisture in there if there is pressure still in the system. Adding cans is OK, but dont add too many!

Jon

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 April 2007, 11:38:02 »

Quote

Dont know if you get down this way (Plymouth) but I have the proper gauges, vacuum pumps etc. The only problem with topups is that you dont know how much is in there to start with. This is why people use a vac pump to start from zero and then add the right amount of refrigerant. Doing a proper vac down boils off any moisture too which is good. Having said that, you shouldnt have any moisture in there if there is pressure still in the system. Adding cans is OK, but dont add too many!

Jon

Hi Jon,

That's good to know. It's a shame I don't venture down your way more often.

The symptoms with mine are that when the system is running the low side pressure as measured with a Halfords gauge is in the right ball park - so I haven't added any refrigerant, but the cooling performance is pretty weak. When you first start the system the high side connection from the compressor gets hot immediately and the low side gets cold but after a minute or two they're warm to the touch and cool to the touch respectively. Makes me wonder if it's icing up internally due to moisture in the refrigerant?

Kevin

x25xe · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 April 2007, 12:16:22 »

But the receiver / dryer should be removing any moisture in the refrigerant. If it is not, then it needs replacing - all this of course assumes that there is moisture in the refrigerant. Could also be the expansion valve at fault.

cdx25 · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 April 2007, 13:06:38 »

Hi there,

>> when the system is running the low side pressure as measured with a Halfords gauge is in the right ball park

My experience is that gauge pressure will show you pressure even when the system is quite low on charge. Vapour pressure isnt like air in a tyre, because you have liquid in the system too. This liquid refrigerant boils off to produce gas pressure. The pressure you get is then a function of temperature - ie hotter = more pressure. (So low pressure on a static gauge means a real low AC charge.)

(Someone who knows more about gas theory will be able to explain vapour pressure better Im sure!)

>>I haven't added any refrigerant, but the cooling performance is pretty weak.

Many causes but most likely is that the gas has escaped over time and you are low on charge. If you get *some* cooling then that suggests that the system is basically OK (although it might be in poor condition)

>> When you first start the system the high side connection from the compressor gets hot immediately and the low side gets cold but after a minute or two they're warm to the touch and cool to the touch respectively. Makes me wonder if it's icing up internally due to moisture in the refrigerant?

More explainable by a low charge I would guess.

Best thing is to have it vac'd down and refilled (make sure you pull a good vacuum for enough time for any moisture present to boil off). A good micron gauge is needed for this bit, vac gauges are not accurate at very low pressures.

Alternative solution is to just add a tin of gas in with an adaptor via the low side (charging with gas only, i.e. dont turn the can upside down) but this is a bit of a bodge because a) no idea how much is in there already and b) you often cant empty the lines of air before you start to charge, meaning there is a risk of moisture going in too. Having said that there are a lot of people who top up this way - your mileage may vary!

Hope this helps,

Jon

x25xe · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 April 2007, 13:31:21 »

How long should a system have a vacuum on it prior to a refill with gas and lube? I was always under the impression that the longer the better but have since been advised that this is not the case. Which is correct?

I also agree with you about the cans of gas available at Halfords etc. I always advise people against using these for the reasons that you have stated.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 April 2007, 13:39:07 »

Thanks for the information. I can see the problem of simply measuring pressure when you're dealing with a system with vapours and liquids in different proportions!

Sounds like it needs a proper service as you say but it's nice to know a little about what's involved beforehand to avoid being fobbed off!

Cheers,

Kevin

cdx25 · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 April 2007, 14:12:27 »

>> Sounds like it needs a proper service as you say but it's nice to know a little about what's involved beforehand to avoid being fobbed off!

and other post:

>> I also agree with you about the cans of gas available at Halfords etc. I always advise people against using these for the reasons that you have stated.

I think the thing that would clinch it for me is that the halfords topup will be 30 quid (and every likelihood is that just one 300g tin isnt enough - my recharge weight on my Omega was 950g or so off the top of my head). Compare this to a vac down, recharge with the correct amount plus maybe dye costing 50quid or thereabouts - its worth the extra.

>> How long should a system have a vacuum on it prior to a refill with gas and lube? I was always under the impression that the longer the better but have since been advised that this is not the case. Which is correct?

Hmm, the answer to that all depends on 1) if moisture is present as this takes time to come out of the system and 2) if you have a decent enough gauge to know when you have reached the end point.

1) A good level of vacuum takes time to reach, even with a decent vac pump with new pump oil.
2) Boiling point of water reduces as pressure reduces (table in link below)
3) Water in the system then starts to boil off at the low pressure
4) But this takes time to boil off and be pulled out of the system.
(Long pipes and slow moving molecules!)
5) Water presence & boiling off indicated by a long time to reach a good vac level
(A leak is indicated by an inability to hold that vac level with the pump isolated)

If you DONT have a micron level gauge then I'd say that in general longer is better... Most people will accept something between 20-40 mins as being about right, but this figure depends on how long it takes to boil off and pull out any water. Shouldnt be much water there unless the rec/dryer is saturated.

Better is to use a Micron level gauge so you know when to stop! (Which may be why some people say that longer isnt always better - and with the right kit this is true.)

From Robinair (Auto vac pump site) http://www.robinair.com/acsolutions/acvacuum/acvacuum.php

"best way to know for sure that the system has been thoroughly dehydrated is by using a thermistor vacuum gauge. This prevents wasting time by pulling down after evacuation is complete or risking inadequate dehydration"

On my car with no commercial pressures of time? I would wait until I reached max reachable vacuum on the micron gauge (indicating all water boiled off) and if that value was acceptable - I'd then hold that for about 10 minutes to be sure. This would take say 30-45 minutes on the pump in all if the system was generally OK.

Hope this helps,

Jon

The Barge Captain · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 April 2007, 14:45:19 »

Question. If doing a propper job, a vacuum pump is connected to the system, and is unable to create any decent vacuum after a reasonable time, this should indicate a leak in the system somewhere right? so therefore any problem on that side of things should be detected before wasting time and money putting gas into the system.
Where is the dryer on the omega, and is it a part i can change myself without breaking into the system? I'm guessing not. Anybody know what a replacement is likely to cost?

cdx25 · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 April 2007, 15:46:18 »

>> If doing a propper job, a vacuum pump is connected to the system, and is unable to create any decent vacuum after a reasonable time, this should indicate a leak in the system somewhere right?

Correct.

>> so therefore any problem on that side of things should be detected before wasting time and money putting gas into the system.

Yep - or $$$ wasted

>> Where is the dryer on the omega

Dont know offhand as Im new to this model and havent got my car handy to look at. Anyone else know?

>> is it a part i can change myself without breaking into the system?

No - soon as you remove it you will open the entire system to air and that means get a new rec/dryer in quick and then vac down to remove moisture before recharging.

Jon

x25xe · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 April 2007, 17:09:54 »

Hi Jon

Thanks for your replies - all very informative. I will take a look at the link your provided. I have an interest in A/C systems in cars and my first car with A/C cost me £1000 to repair (this was in 1999) this was on my Cavalier which I still have and the A/C still works as I have it re gassed and a new receiver / dryer every 2 years. Has worked for me which I why I recommend the same to others.

The Barge Captain · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 April 2007, 19:21:07 »

You sound like a man who knows what he is talking about. I would come to see you for my aircon, but it would take me half a day traveling there and back and cost £30 in fuel just to get the bonnet open

Guess i'll just have to go local, but thanks for the information provided mate.

cdx25 · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 April 2007, 22:54:47 »

No worries - its nice to be able to contribute back something to the forum in an area I can help with. Hope the regas goes OK. Shout if I can help in any way more.

Jon

gofwb · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 April 2007, 13:26:37 »

I have been wanting a regas on my 02 2.6 for a while and was pleased to discover that Kwikfit did it as they are just across the road from where I work, 1.30pm yesterday gave them a ring, they said "bring it straight round as we don’t have much work on", dropped it off, they said "it would take about 30mins", I said I would pick the car up about 3.10pm.

Went back to work then went back at 3.10 to see them still working on it (alarm bells rang) manager says "its taking a bit longer than usual as we have to remove all the old refrigerant", I say "that’s what you are supposed to do anyway", manager looks a bit grumpy and goes back to the other 3 "Mechanics" who are all peering under the bonnet and at the regas machine, manager comes back and says we cant regas it as the compressor does not work.

I go to talk to "mechanic" who tells a different story that "the machine will not fill it up” they have rang the machine manufacturer who insists that they are doing everything correct, I say you need the air con running for the regas don’t you" “yes” says the "mechanic". "Well you won’t get it on with the "ECO" switch on, "mechanic" says "he did not know anything about that".

They must have managed to get a little bit of gas in as the compressor clutch works now.

So if you take it to Kwikfit tell them "Don’t touch the bloody ECO button!!”

I dropped it off this morning and pick it up this afternoon will give you the verdict on them tomorrow.

Frank.

Bo Bo · « **Reply #26 on:** 19 April 2007, 13:36:55 »

You can't get better than a..........

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 April 2007, 13:39:12 »

Sounds like they're about as good at aircon as they are at suspension geometry.

Surely during lesson one of the thick-fit air con training course it would have explained how to turn the air con on in the first place.

Kevin

Jimbob · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 April 2007, 13:40:24 »

they have probably tried to turn it on, not realising it is always on in an omega and you have to turn it off if you dont want it.

Dont they fill you with confidence!

Bo Bo · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 April 2007, 13:44:30 »

Well I'm off to them in about 1/2hr but I won't be leaving mine & I'll make sure they know about the ECO, not that ever use it.....

cdx25 · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 April 2007, 15:33:20 »

>> Well you won’t get it on with the "ECO" switch on, "mechanic" says "he did not know anything about that".

On some cars the ECO button reduces the duty cycle of the AC compressor to save fuel, so they might have thought ECO did that as it can be a way of introducing the gas at a slower rate. (One of those ideas thats great in theory but in practice doesnt always work like that...)

Knowing what the Omega ECO switch does is kinda important though as its different! That must have taken ages of charging with nothing being drawn in after the first few grammes... Wups. No wonder there was much head scratching.

Jon

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 April 2007, 16:15:42 »

The Omega aircon doesn't vary its duty cycle (not seen one that does that since the R12 stuff), it has a variable squish plate internal to the pump ......

Why would any aircon person work on aircon with eco enabled.....surely you want to monitor the high side pressure on max cool....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 April 2007, 16:33:30 »

Does anyone know what the variable squish plate does / how it works?

If doesn't get any feedback of the car's internal temperature or the demand for cold air so does it just maintain a constant refrigerant flow rate / pressure difference regardless of RPM, temperature, etc?

Kevin

cdx25 · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 April 2007, 17:02:12 »

>> The Omega aircon doesn't vary its duty cycle (not seen one that does that since the R12 stuff), it has a variable squish plate internal to the pump ......

Sorry - I should have said 'other' and 'old' cars in my original post! Wasnt suggesting the Omega did this.

>> Why would any aircon person work on aircon with eco enabled.....surely you want to monitor the high side pressure on max cool....

Some techs take the view that you stick (a non omega type) eco button on to do the charging at a slower rate but if you are charging with gas only I cant see how this matters as there are other limiting factors to the rate of on-gassing. So I agree, no point.

Jon

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 April 2007, 17:13:47 »

Poor training I guess......the gas is only going to go in as fast the cannister etc will allow.....unless you turn it upside down to get liquid in but, I guess you risk buggering the pump then if its running....

Which reminds me, need to get a condenser for my V plate and get it sorted before the temp goes up much more.....

Bo Bo · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 April 2007, 17:24:13 »

Well I went to Kwikfit & was pretty impressed.
The guy seemed to know his stuff & explained the process as it went through (even though I didn't really want to know).
There was only 150g in mine & very little oil, it's freezing now 8-)

Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?

Gaffers · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 April 2007, 18:11:41 »

Quote

...Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?

Dont forget the glove box cooling vent on the meegas (as long as you open it)

For longer picnic drives I keep a AC cooler box on the back seat plugged into the rear cigarette lighter port... 8-)

TheBoy · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 April 2007, 18:51:54 »

Quote

Well I went to Kwikfit & was pretty impressed.
The guy seemed to know his stuff & explained the process as it went through (even though I didn't really want to know).
There was only 150g in mine & very little oil, it's freezing now 8-)

Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?

Which Sh!t F!t did you go to, might take tractor there. Not sure if I have a leak - I am undecided if its cold due to speed, or actually (slightly) chilled....

Bo Bo · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 April 2007, 18:56:15 »

Quote

Quote
...Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?

Dont forget the glove box cooling vent on the meegas (as long as you open it)

For longer picnic drives I keep a AC cooler box on the back seat plugged into the rear cigarette lighter port... 8-)

Haven't got one in mine, think it must have been done away with on the mini-facelift :-/ used to use it on my '95...

Bo Bo · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 April 2007, 18:58:51 »

Quote

Quote
Well I went to Kwikfit & was pretty impressed.
The guy seemed to know his stuff & explained the process as it went through (even though I didn't really want to know).
There was only 150g in mine & very little oil, it's freezing now 8-)

Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?
Which Sh!t F!t did you go to, might take tractor there. Not sure if I have a leak - I am undecided if its cold due to speed, or actually (slightly) chilled....

My local one, they've got a new m/c that checks pressure & for leaks & won't re-gas if it fails....

TheBoy · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 April 2007, 19:38:41 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
...Actually he said his BMW takes 2000g as opposed th the Omega's 950 & has a fridge in the rear armrest :-?

Dont forget the glove box cooling vent on the meegas (as long as you open it)

For longer picnic drives I keep a AC cooler box on the back seat plugged into the rear cigarette lighter port... 8-)
Haven't got one in mine, think it must have been done away with on the mini-facelift :-/ used to use it on my '95...

I think the glovebox a/c has been removed from later cars - neither my MV6 nor the tractor have it, both 98MY

Andy B · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 April 2007, 21:51:19 »

Quote

.....
think it must have been done away with on the mini-facelift :-/ used to use it on my '95...

It was for some strange reason. I used to like the that feature in my Senator (when the A/C worked

)

gofwb · « **Reply #42 on:** 20 April 2007, 04:54:52 »

Got mine back from Kwikfit this time no problems, mine is also now freezing, just need some hot weather in the frozen north to take advantage of it.

Frank.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #43 on:** 20 April 2007, 04:56:06 »

Quote

Does anyone know what the variable squish plate does / how it works?

If doesn't get any feedback of the car's internal temperature or the demand for cold air so does it just maintain a constant refrigerant flow rate / pressure difference regardless of RPM, temperature, etc?

Kevin

It trys to maintain a constant pressure/difference in the coolant lines.......

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #44 on:** 20 April 2007, 11:13:44 »

Well, I'm off to Kwik Fit with mine at lunch time. We'll see what happens.

Kevin

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #45 on:** 20 April 2007, 15:31:20 »

Hmm. Sorry to say it but it looks like it's luck of the draw at Kwik Fit.

Went in today and got the feeling throughout that I was a pain in the @rse getting in the way of them fitting tyres. They didn't ask what the problem was to start with. I started to explain that it was working but only very marginally and the guy had walked off with the keys before I'd finished my sentence.

Asked me to wait in the waiting room and wouldn't discuss the process to any degree.

When they were finished it was a case of "sign here" "here are the keys".

I asked if it was working better now and the guy said "why, wasn't it before?" not that he had bothered to find out. They wouldn't discuss any results - claiming that "we just hook it up to the machine and it does everything" so I've no idea if the rerigerant was low or if there is likely to be any other type of fault. All they said is that there are no leaks. No evidence of a before and after temperature check having been carried out.

Mentioned the "You only pay with results" advert and they insisted that they had recharged it and that's what I asked. I had specifically referred to the advert on their web site guaranteeing results or no charge.

Absolutely no difference to the cooling. To be honest I think some kind of problem exists with the system, they realised it wasn't working and that they didn't have a clue why so they tried to pull the wool over my eyes.

Think a snottogram to the manager followed by taking it to someone who knows that they're doing is in order.

Kevin

platty · « **Reply #46 on:** 20 April 2007, 15:42:08 »

Quote

My local one, they've got a new m/c that checks pressure & for leaks & won't re-gas if it fails....

Is your local one on Foleshill Road, on the corner of Cash's Lane???

If so i might take a trip there; i work at halfords so its only a 30 second drive!!

cdx25 · « **Reply #47 on:** 20 April 2007, 17:03:31 »

Kevin: >> "we just hook it up to the machine and it does everything"

Aw thats bad news that they cant tell you the detail. Auto recovery machines tell you how much gas they have recovered by weight, so they should have been able to tell you that.... Bad luck, thats not at all helpful.

Jon

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #48 on:** 20 April 2007, 17:19:02 »

I'm sure it's just down to the guy you get on the day, in fairness. This guy was obviously not remotely interested in anything other than connecting the machine up, pressing the button and leaving it to it.

As with everything, get someone who's actually enthusiastic about what they're doing and it makes all the difference.

Well, regardless of the operator, at least I can hopefully have trusted the machine to charge it with refrigerant properly. The sun has come out and been on the car all afternoon so I suspect the drive home will tell me if it's made a difference (it was 14 degrees earlier so I may not have given it much of a chance TBH).

Kevin

x25xe · « **Reply #49 on:** 20 April 2007, 17:28:17 »

Kevin,

Did you have to pay anything for that woeful service?

If the system is now fully charged, then some diagnosis is required - i.e. what pressure is the system running at on both the high and low side, is the condenser being cooled correctly, is the received / dryer in good order, the evaporator, the expansion valve and, finally, the compressor??

Good luck with getting it sorted - and at a low(ish) cost.

andyiow · « **Reply #50 on:** 20 April 2007, 22:13:47 »

Just had my air-conre gassed cost £65+vat but then we are limited to 2 and only 1 could fit me in as the other was going away for a while.

My system had no gas in it but hen I have not had the air con serviced for as long as I have had the car. My seals where all good as it held the system pressure according to the gauges.

Now a happy cool omega driver again.

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #51 on:** 20 April 2007, 22:32:58 »

Well, I think I'll be going back to have a chat with the manager on Monday armed with a print out of the relevant page from their web site because there is a world of difference between what they promised and what they delivered.

I will be asking to see the before and after temperature measurements (I don't believe they bothered to take any) and asking for a refund if they can't produce them, especially as they claim to charge nothing if there's not a 10% difference between the two (thatever 10% means when dealing with temperatures - no doubt they work in degrees Kelvin!).

..but I am conscious that it's hardly swealtering weather at the moment, the car is new to me so I'm not familiar with a system that's working properly and maybe my expectations are not realistic. Maybe someone could confirm based on the following that my system is not working satisfactorily.

The outside air temperature was 15 degrees today, the sun was shining and I drove home (20 miles) in shirt sleeves with the climate set to "lo" and the fan at full speed. Based on other air con systems I have experienced this should have quickly lead to an uncomfortably cold car. The reality is that it was a degree or two colder than I would have preferred but I didn't really get the urge to give up and dial in some heat.

The air con does give some cooling. Switching to eco mode does raise the temperature by a few degrees at a guess. The compressor is engaging, the auxiliary fans are running at low speed and the condenser looks clean and not blocked with debris. The pipes in the driver's footwell to the heater matrix do run reasonably cool (slightly warm but not at engine temperature) so I think the HBV is cutting any significant supply to the heater matrix.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd said that there was a fault in the system that can't fix. They only offer a recharge service after all. I wouldn't really have minded paying for their efforts if they'd been up front with me and provided whatever suggestions and information they could as to what was wrong. In the event they sent me packing hoping I wouldn't argue.

Kevin

x25xe · « **Reply #52 on:** 20 April 2007, 22:47:20 »

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Well, I think I'll be going back to have a chat with the manager on Monday armed with a print out of the relevant page from their web site because there is a world of difference between what they promised and what they delivered.

I will be asking to see the before and after temperature measurements (I don't believe they bothered to take any) and asking for a refund if they can't produce them, especially as they claim to charge nothing if there's not a 10% difference between the two (thatever 10% means when dealing with temperatures - no doubt they work in degrees Kelvin!).

..but I am conscious that it's hardly swealtering weather at the moment, the car is new to me so I'm not familiar with a system that's working properly and maybe my expectations are not realistic. Maybe someone could confirm based on the following that my system is not working satisfactorily.

The outside air temperature was 15 degrees today, the sun was shining and I drove home (20 miles) in shirt sleeves with the climate set to "lo" and the fan at full speed. Based on other air con systems I have experienced this should have quickly lead to an uncomfortably cold car. The reality is that it was a degree or two colder than I would have preferred but I didn't really get the urge to give up and dial in some heat.

The air con does give some cooling. Switching to eco mode does raise the temperature by a few degrees at a guess. The compressor is engaging, the auxiliary fans are running at low speed and the condenser looks clean and not blocked with debris. The pipes in the driver's footwell to the heater matrix do run reasonably cool (slightly warm but not at engine temperature) so I think the HBV is cutting any significant supply to the heater matrix.

I wouldn't have minded if they'd said that there was a fault in the system that can't fix. They only offer a recharge service after all. I wouldn't really have minded paying for their efforts if they'd been up front with me and provided whatever suggestions and information they could as to what was wrong. In the event they sent me packing hoping I wouldn't argue.

Kevin

Agreed - your system does not seem to be running a peak efficiency - like you, I would expect the car to be too cold.

Also agree with your other comments - good luck with the refund.

I expect the Kwik Fit people work at -273 degrees Kelvin - certainly in the brains department anyway!

Andy B · « **Reply #53 on:** 20 April 2007, 22:48:26 »

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..........
the sun was shining and I drove home (20 miles) in shirt sleeves with the climate set to "lo" and the fan at full speed. Based on other air con systems I have experienced this should have quickly lead to an uncomfortably cold car. ........

As the climate control in will disregard the thermostats when set to HI or LO you should should have been surrounded by brass monkeys holding their ball in their hands on your way home. It should have been uncomfortably cold.

Bo Bo · « **Reply #54 on:** 20 April 2007, 23:09:28 »

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My local one, they've got a new m/c that checks pressure & for leaks & won't re-gas if it fails....

Is your local one on Foleshill Road, on the corner of Cash's Lane???

If so i might take a trip there; i work at halfords so its only a 30 second drive!!

Yep that's the one, think the guy's name that did mine is Jacob (it was certainly something biblical), Halfords hey, I was only in there yesterday.....

Bo Bo · « **Reply #55 on:** 20 April 2007, 23:19:46 »

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I'm sure it's just down to the guy you get on the day, in fairness. This guy was obviously not remotely interested in anything other than connecting the machine up, pressing the button and leaving it to it.

As with everything, get someone who's actually enthusiastic about what they're doing and it makes all the difference.

Well, regardless of the operator, at least I can hopefully have trusted the machine to charge it with refrigerant properly. The sun has come out and been on the car all afternoon so I suspect the drive home will tell me if it's made a difference (it was 14 degrees earlier so I may not have given it much of a chance TBH).

Kevin

Sorry to hear that Kevin, our inexperience's couldn't be further apart.
The guy that did mine was really enthusiastic, I got readings before & after & a printout & an explanation all the way through. He went on to tell me about the two different types of oil they put in depending on your system & they're viscosity etc. etc. etc. in the end I was getting fed up......

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #56 on:** 20 April 2007, 23:34:44 »

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Sorry to hear that Kevin, our inexperience's couldn't be further apart.
The guy that did mine was really enthusiastic, I got readings before & after & a printout & an explanation all the way through. He went on to tell me about the two different types of oil they put in depending on your system & they're viscosity etc. etc. etc. in the end I was getting fed up......

Well, I was hoping for the same but, as I said, it depends on the guy who gets the job. I can imagine when someone who lives to fit tyres draws the short straw to become the air con "expert" he is unlikely to approach it with the same enthusiasm.

I'd have loved to have soaked up some information from them about how it all works because I hate having to deal with something I don't 100% understand.

Oh, well. I'll be relating your experiences to the Camberley branch manager next week and contrasting them to my own.

Cheers,

Kevin

Bo Bo · « **Reply #57 on:** 21 April 2007, 11:25:20 »

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Quote
Sorry to hear that Kevin, our inexperience's couldn't be further apart.
The guy that did mine was really enthusiastic, I got readings before & after & a printout & an explanation all the way through. He went on to tell me about the two different types of oil they put in depending on your system & they're viscosity etc. etc. etc. in the end I was getting fed up......

Well, I was hoping for the same but, as I said, it depends on the guy who gets the job. I can imagine when someone who lives to fit tyres draws the short straw to become the air con "expert" he is unlikely to approach it with the same enthusiasm.

I'd have loved to have soaked up some information from them about how it all works because I hate having to deal with something I don't 100% understand.

Oh, well. I'll be relating your experiences to the Camberley branch manager next week and contrasting them to my own.

Cheers,

Kevin

I've just had a call from Kwikfit asking about the service I received (& trying to sell me car insurance), maybe you will too.....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #58 on:** 22 April 2007, 00:13:19 »

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I've just had a call from Kwikfit asking about the service I received (& trying to sell me car insurance), maybe you will too.....

Oh, I do hope so...
I'm waiting by the phone, Mate!

Kevin

platty · « **Reply #59 on:** 23 April 2007, 16:24:08 »

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Quote
Quote
My local one, they've got a new m/c that checks pressure & for leaks & won't re-gas if it fails....

Is your local one on Foleshill Road, on the corner of Cash's Lane???

If so i might take a trip there; i work at halfords so its only a 30 second drive!!
Yep that's the one, think the guy's name that did mine is Jacob (it was certainly something biblical), Halfords hey, I was only in there yesterday.....

Well i might pop in there in the near future because my aircon appears to do absolutely nothing, when it is set to "LO" on full pelt it just blows cool air at me, there is no chill to it at all.

Not at halfords for long, got 2 more shifts next week (tues & thurs eve) then packing my bags and moving down south with the fairies.

Thanks for getting back to me.

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