Topic: Gearbox dead can anyone help? (Read 4348 times)

AndersH · « **on:** 01 November 2007, 13:58:55 »

Having lots of problems with my gearbox so took it to a specialist who said there were no error codes but drove it around and encountered the same problems as me. To get a reconditioned box in there would cost me £1600

Or they would fit one if I supplied for around £300 Looks like I may have to get rid of the car although I won't be able to sell with the box in the state it's in. What would others do in this situation? Find another gearbox and hope it's ok and spend £300 fitting?

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #1 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:24:06 »

Never done one myself but have been told not to bad a job to put a Auto box in if you could drop on a second hand one from a breakers:-?

AndersH · « **Reply #2 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:24:51 »

Still way beyond me though!

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #3 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:28:37 »

Quote

Still way beyond me though!

No-one near you on the forum who could lend a hand?

Maybe worth PM ing JamesV6 he does mobile repairs I think

AndersH · « **Reply #4 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:42:45 »

Almost got James to look at my car before but for whatever reason never happened - If anyone could help for some cash it would be much appreciated!

Darth Loo-knee · « **Reply #5 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:47:23 »

Worth PM'ing him again I believe he has been busy :-?

Kev · « **Reply #6 on:** 01 November 2007, 14:58:37 »

What problems are you having?

I know people on here have in the past reported problems with auto boxes, which were rectified by a simple fluid and filter change.

Anyone?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #7 on:** 01 November 2007, 15:04:32 »

What are the symptoms?

AndersH · « **Reply #8 on:** 01 November 2007, 15:04:49 »

Ok, if I'm accelerating to 30 then take my foot off the accelerator, after I've slowed down a bit I then put my foot back on and the car has put itself back into 1st again. If I hold the acceleration when it's like this it will eventually show a warning light and go into limp mode. When it's like this, the only way I've found to get out of it is to stick it in sport mode, it will then change up with a thump after a few seconds. It used to do this once every couple of weeks or so, but now does it at least once on every journey. Seems worse when cold and I don't seem to have problems at higher speeds. It's not happy!

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #9 on:** 01 November 2007, 15:43:02 »

When you put your foot back down, does it act as if there is no gear selected and the revs rise before clunking into third, putting the fault message up and carrying on?

If so, its the classic thrust washer failure symptoms.

AndersH · « **Reply #10 on:** 01 November 2007, 16:01:50 »

Yep that could be it, I said it goes into first but thinking about it, it could well be like there's no gear at all - I tend not to push it much when it's like that! So if this thrust washer is fixable, is ther anyone who could help me?! By the way, they read the gearbox codes again to make sure and an error code did come up second time - P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio...

TheBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** 01 November 2007, 18:44:49 »

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Yep that could be it, I said it goes into first but thinking about it, it could well be like there's no gear at all - I tend not to push it much when it's like that! So if this thrust washer is fixable, is ther anyone who could help me?! By the way, they read the gearbox codes again to make sure and an error code did come up second time - P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio...

That error is a standard code, meaning the gearbox is not mechanically doing what the ECU is asking it to.

Thrust washer easy enough - pop off the gearbox, remove bellhousing, throw in near thrust washer, put it all back together and treat it to new fluid.

If it is thrust washer, normally evidence in one of the 2 sumps...

AndersH · « **Reply #12 on:** 01 November 2007, 19:29:30 »

You make it sound so easy

Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!

TheBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** 01 November 2007, 19:57:08 »

Quote

You make it sound so easy
Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!

The hard part is realigning the box when refitting to engine (lift it up on a jack, but even so, getting the first bolt in is a bugger).

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #14 on:** 01 November 2007, 19:59:52 »

Quote

You make it sound so easy
Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!

Yes, our service didn't happen in the end did it, I'm sorry, I was simply too busy to find a free day to get over

I am still extremely busy, but I can send you some dates when I am potentially free. A good day will see the box changed.

I've never changed the thrust washer on it's own, but you can get a good secondhand box for less than £100, so that would be the route I'd take.

AndersH · « **Reply #15 on:** 01 November 2007, 20:43:37 »

That would be great if you could help me, there's a cheap one on Ebay at the moment but it's 230 miles away... If anyone knows of a cheap one closer???! If you could PM me some dates I'd be more than grateful, thanks again.

sassanach · « **Reply #16 on:** 02 November 2007, 10:47:58 »

how are you fixed tomorrow,fancy a trip to sunny trowbridge?

AndersH · « **Reply #17 on:** 02 November 2007, 10:56:39 »

I could do that! do you think you could sort out my existing gearbox or know of one I could swap?

sassanach · « **Reply #18 on:** 02 November 2007, 11:05:33 »

im working on the basis of fixing your existing box, if it is the thrust washer then i have one in stock.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #19 on:** 02 November 2007, 11:11:58 »

An excellent offer from Mr Sassanch.....I would take him up on it.

AndersH · « **Reply #20 on:** 02 November 2007, 11:14:22 »

That would be perfect as you're not too far away really. If you could PM me any details I'd need I'll take you up on your offer!
Many thanks,
Andy

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #21 on:** 02 November 2007, 11:17:07 »

About 50 miles up the A350 I seem to recall.

AndersH · « **Reply #22 on:** 02 November 2007, 14:05:57 »

Not bad off the top of your head! apparently 51 miles from my house to the centre of Trowbridge!

TheBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 04 November 2007, 15:28:50 »

Any update? Was the box fixed?

sassanach · « **Reply #24 on:** 04 November 2007, 19:37:34 »

removed original box and checked the thrust washer which turned out to be intact.plan b time,i dismantled and replaced the thrust washer in jamesv6cdx,s old box and fitted that instead.oh dear it was worse than the original,could barely pull itself off the ramp.so you guessed it i had to reassemble the original box and refit it,net result of six and a half hours of labour=zero still sometime this week i will conduct a post mortem of james ar35, fix it, and then there will be a rematch.

TheBoy · « **Reply #25 on:** 04 November 2007, 19:53:56 »

Quote

removed original box and checked the thrust washer which turned out to be intact.plan b time,i dismantled and replaced the thrust washer in jamesv6cdx,s old box and fitted that instead.oh dear it was worse than the original,could barely pull itself off the ramp.so you guessed it i had to reassemble the original box and refit it,net result of six and a half hours of labour=zero still sometime this week i will conduct a post mortem of james ar35, fix it, and then there will be a rematch.

- a lot of time and effort, but no result.

Still, I have 100% confidence in your abilities to get a box working - esp with all those spares scattered over your floor

On the upside, despite the lack of success, I'm sure it was a very enjoyable day

sassanach · « **Reply #26 on:** 04 November 2007, 19:55:26 »

kept me amused i must admit

TheBoy · « **Reply #27 on:** 04 November 2007, 19:59:08 »

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kept me amused i must admit

LOL, never happier than when within the depths of an autobox?

AndersH · « **Reply #28 on:** 05 November 2007, 10:38:49 »

Thanks ever so much for your help, and was very impressed how calm you were when we realised that the AR35 didn't work and it had to come out again

You are lucky TheBoy apparently the AR35 was earmarked for you?!
So, anybody got a spare gearbox?

TheBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** 05 November 2007, 15:55:51 »

Quote

Thanks ever so much for your help, and was very impressed how calm you were when we realised that the AR35 didn't work and it had to come out again
You are lucky TheBoy apparently the AR35 was earmarked for you?!
So, anybody got a spare gearbox?

Phew!

Mind you, I deserved some luck with that tractor!

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 November 2007, 13:14:21 »

I have the same problem. Any solution yet? I'm trying to get in touch with Sassanach but he's very busy.
My post http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1195475008

AndersH · « **Reply #31 on:** 21 November 2007, 13:40:22 »

Since putting the gearbox back in with the new fluid things are much better - there was an almighty clunk which shook the car on the way back from Sasanach's place and the next day it slipped into neutral a couple of times but since then, for the last 2.5 weeks I haven't had a single problem with it, infact it seems better than it's ever been! whereas before it would happen every time I used the car. Don't really know what to conclude from that I'm afraid, just that I'm glad it's working better now!

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #32 on:** 21 November 2007, 14:34:01 »

So, you still have your old gerbox in and nothing was changed except oil and everything is ok now? + whole afternoow of work...

I was told that it might cost £1000 to refurbish my gearbox so even if there is just a few things to be done, I will pay minimum of £500. I will try to check oil level today (I changed the oil when the engine was cold). Second thing is that oil wasnt change since new, I add 5.5l and ca 3-3.5l was left in the gearbox (which is in the system, not in the oil lump). Is there any way to get out that 3.5l of oil from the gearbox apart from "active oil change"?

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 November 2007, 21:26:06 »

I checked oil level in my gearbox. It was even to much oil, so some of it came out to container.
Oil was changed 2 weeks ago!! It looks like I need to change it ONCE AGAIN.
Look what I found and compare with new Dexron III. Old one is more...abrasive, new is more... oily and slippery (don't know it that's a good word)

TheBoy · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 November 2007, 21:35:20 »

Yes, looks like its burning it, probably due to the slip in the box.

As the oil breaks down, it will increase in volume.

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #35 on:** 21 November 2007, 22:27:28 »

How does it work? When the gearbox starts slipping, sensors will immediately fill find out that the vehicle speed, engine speed and selected gear don't match,. The gearbox then will switch to "limp" mode and go to "N" (revs will go up, and car will not accelerate). After 30 seconds I will get a error message. Am I right?
If yes, then it happened for 3 times since I've changed oil and only for few seconds. Is it possible that whole oil might be burnt from that? If the gearbox is broken, then the old oil (which wasn't changed from new) should be more like grease. It was darker than this one but wasn't that bad. Isn't it so dark because, there was still ca 3l of old oil left in the gearbox and new oil starts to clean the gearbox now?

TheBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 November 2007, 22:32:56 »

Quote

How does it work? When the gearbox starts slipping, sensors will immediately fill find out that the vehicle speed, engine speed and selected gear don't match,. The gearbox then will switch to "limp" mode and go to "N" (revs will go up, and car will not accelerate). After 30 seconds I will get a error message. Am I right?
If yes, then it happened for 3 times since I've changed oil and only for few seconds. Is it possible that whole oil might be burnt from that? If the gearbox is broken, then the old oil (which wasn't changed from new) should be more like grease. It was darker than this one but wasn't that bad. Isn't it so dark because, there was still ca 3l of old oil left in the gearbox and new oil starts to clean the gearbox now?

No, its not that instant - it can't be due to wat TC works. Hence there can be a lot of slip[ before it limps.

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 November 2007, 07:31:51 »

I don't have TC. (Traction Control)

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 November 2007, 07:50:17 »

Quote

I don't have TC. (Traction Control)

TC = Torque Converter

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 November 2007, 08:16:35 »

So when do you know that it's slipping? When you feel the result ("limp" mode, "N") or the reason (gear slipping)?
How can I check the reason? Car is accelerating, revs are going up with speed. If it would slip all the time together with "TC" then revs would easily go up and the vehicle wouldn't accelerate.
What gearboxes were installed in Omegas and which I should be looking for?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #40 on:** 22 November 2007, 08:31:00 »

The thrust washer failure results in a low oil pressure.

As a result the box fails to shift occasionaly, the output shaft sensor detects this and throws a fault code (normaly related to the fact that the output speed does not match that expected based on engine RPM, TC slip and gear) and the box drops into limp mode with a clunk.

The colour of your oil is probabaly due to the remaining 3 litres mixing with the new stuff......its pretty much impossible to change the oil totaly without rmoving the box and even then, removing it from the TC wont be easy.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #41 on:** 22 November 2007, 08:32:22 »

Ow yes, the gearbox es installed are:

AR35 - 3.0
Ar25 - all others

These are otherwise known as the 4L30E Gm box (as used on 5 series BMW's, Isuzus , yank tanks etc)

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #42 on:** 22 November 2007, 09:56:08 »

Sometimes, after accelerating, when I release the pedal, revs are going down (to ca 1000) like in "N" mode, and when I press it aging, revs are going up and car is accelerating. Sometimes, when I release the pedal, revs are going down slowly with the speed (like still on gear) and vehicle is slowing. And now I remember when it happens - when I accelerate up to ca 30mile/h and release the throttle, then revs are going down and when I press it again it stays in "N" mode, especially when it's on cruise control. Same thing happens with that clunk, same situation, just I don’t press the throttle again and when the car is moving I can feel the clunk. I thought about it and it really looks like the gearbox is loosing pressure and goes crazy.
I read this post: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1183142571 It looks easy, but I'm sure it's not.
So when looking for a gearbox, I can take any, apart from 3.0 one.

Does the green field has to be machined (flattened)?

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #43 on:** 22 November 2007, 09:59:36 »

I personaly would go for a 3.0 one as its stronger.....and before fitting replace the thrust washer.

TheBoy · « **Reply #44 on:** 22 November 2007, 19:52:24 »

Quote

The thrust washer failure results in a low oil pressure.

As a result the box fails to shift occasionaly, the output shaft sensor detects this and throws a fault code (normaly related to the fact that the output speed does not match that expected based on engine RPM, TC slip and gear) and the box drops into limp mode with a clunk.

The colour of your oil is probabaly due to the remaining 3 litres mixing with the new stuff......its pretty much impossible to change the oil totaly without rmoving the box and even then, removing it from the TC wont be easy.

Not sure I agree on the oil colour being just due mixing with old oil. I had a similar issue with my box, and it turned my nice red atf (done on your drive) to a horrible dark oil within weeks. I know it was still fairly red about a week after we changed my ATF, as I rechecked level.

Also, when it starts to burn it, the volume increases quite a bit.

Now, I'm disagreeing with Marks_DTM_Calib. I'm bracing myself to be 'educated'

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #45 on:** 22 November 2007, 22:27:43 »

TheBoy - Was you autobox burning oil? What happened to it? Can you please tell us more?
Once again - two weeks to burn 5 liters of oil while it was driving on the same oil for 78k and nothing happened? It should burn it to grease.
The oil level didn't increased. I just add too much of it last time.

I can buy a set of Transtec gaskets and Raybestos clutches. That’s for ca £130. What do you think about these parts? It’s on Polish e-bay.

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #46 on:** 23 November 2007, 17:51:17 »

I switched to "1" and was driving for a while to find out if there is any slip. Revs were relevant to speed.
I also counted (driving on "3") how many times revs will drop. It was 3 times. Don't know if that's ok (1->2, 2->3 and what about third time?).

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #47 on:** 26 November 2007, 22:50:04 »

I am more convinced that TheBoy was right....unfortunately. Well, I recorded a small video of revs drops when accelerating. Theres up to 4 when driving on "3" so or it's a gearbox slipping or I am really wrong. I dont know if there's any conjunction but after installing the heat shield on my manifold (it was out since i was doing my manifold) I found that the engine temperature was rising too much and even thought it was ca 90 degrees I found the engine very hot.
Suddenly I got more problems with revs. It felt when it;s slipping. The gearbox itself was wary hot and when I checked the oil there was more oil coming out! Like TheBoy said.
I made two videos. Can you please have a look at and tell me if I'm right and my gearbox is really slipping.
Please advise me what to do? Sassanach is away and he wasn't online for almost two weeks. Everyone's going on holiday, and most of the garages wants ca 1000 pound for that...
http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=6062146892747108189
http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=7109458115230329748

I found this gearbox: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-omega-automatic-gearbox_W0QQitemZ150187899349QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Buxton? Is there anyone from Buxton?
or this (150 miles away from me as everything cheap) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-5-Automatic-Gearbox_W0QQitemZ150175974968QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 November 2007, 15:55:01 »

I found the gearbox, but was told that this is from 2.5 (dont know if diesel or petrol) and they not sure is it will fit to my engine. Seller told me that it might not fit and I will have to do it on my risk.
So, can you please tell me if I can take the automatic gearbox from any 2.5 any fit it to my 2.0 16V (99)? I cant find any other autobox for that price and with 3 months warranty.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 November 2007, 16:05:33 »

Its an AR25 on a 2.5 and a 2.0 so should be fine.....

Kevin Wood · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 November 2007, 16:11:55 »

Quote

I am more convinced that TheBoy was right....unfortunately. Well, I recorded a small video of revs drops when accelerating. Theres up to 4 when driving on "3" so or it's a gearbox slipping or I am really wrong.

You will get an extra rev drop in 3rd when the torque converter locks up. It can feel like an extra gear but you'll notice that before this "change" theres some "slip" in the transmission (TC gives a variable ratio) and afterwards it's fixed, like a manual.

Kevin

mkaminski100 · « **Reply #51 on:** 27 November 2007, 16:28:32 »

Mark - I was told that the bell housing might be diffrent, and Tc is different. They dont have any 2.0 autobox.
Kevin, I was driving on position "3" and I felt revs drop 4 times. Can you have a look on my video and tell me if thats how it should be.
Thanks guys.

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Author Topic: Gearbox dead can anyone help? (Read 4348 times)