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[addy]

Thank you both for the quick replies. Will clean IAT got proper MAF Cleaner from a friend I helped.  Doctor Gollum do you mean IAT could be playing up when you say "The discrepancy of 11 degrees between cold coolant and ambient air"? Will get the parts together and report back. I would think it isn't worth doing anymore live data until parts are all changed.

Next thing after that I suppose would be ECM not working correct. If it isn't would I have to get a ECM from same year and model with same Part #, or would any year 2lt one work? Also would I need the keys to go with it?

Sorry for all the questions, just planning ahead.  I have found a ECU testing company https://www.ecutesting.com/.  Their testing fee is £45 +vat. They do not charge for the collection of my unit, only the return shipping. The return shipping fee within the UK is £15 +vat for most items.

Will keep intouch with progress.
Addy

[Doctor Gollum]

That was more of a response to Enceladus

Fundamentally, replacing the IAT, Ecu coolant sensor, radiator thermo switches and thermostat should ensure that the engine temperature measurement and management behave correctly and allow the O2 sensors to function as intended.

The coolant temperature is clearly lower than it should be, but no one thing appears to have failed completely, hence the above list...

[addy]

Sorry thought you were telling me about the IAT.   Been intouch with local dealer. The IAT sensor is no longer sold, but got the part# 90499898, ECT sensor is no longer available also got part# 90411977.

There are two radiator fan switches on the system, one is £45+VAT the other is £25+VAT. One starts with code WM the other is XC so need to remove my sensor for the code.

Thermostat is £43.75+Vat.

What Manufacturer would you recommend for ECT sensor and IAT?

Spoke to a O2 specialist, to see what they can suggest along with your help.


This is their reply.

Both HC and Lambda are too high. This normally means a misfire
 
CO is high because catalyser isn't oxidising it to make CO2. This is normally accompanied with Low lambda reading, but yours has the opposite to this which is unusual. HC is usually too high because the catalyser has run out so to speak of O2, but the high lambda (excess osygen) reading disputes this. Something's very wrong at any rate
 
If the engine's been rebuilt and it seems low on power, is the valve timing correct? You'd be surprised how many engines i've seen that will still run fine after having skipped a tooth. If there's a problem check the timing belt is the correct one, i've had a belt with one too many teeth supplied to me before by GSF but they swore it was the correct one
 
If all that's ok then start looking at the engine management system.

Addy

[Doctor Gollum]

Looks like Lucas for the IAT, likewise the ecu coolant temp... £15-18 the pair.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Vectra-Cavalier-Omega-Radiator-Fan-Thermostat-Switch-90242277-Ident-XC/231358320401?hash=item35de07cf11:g:YNcAAOSwF1dUOoqe £5

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Omega-Radiator-Thermostat-Switch-Water-Temp-Switch-90458540/333431218794?hash=item4da20ca26a:g:UeQAAOSwEFhd6nZs £13

Plus the thermostat I linked to yesterday. looking at the new VX price, £30 doesn't look too bad

[Doctor Gollum]

Getting the ecu tested seems a touch premature... the sensors and thermostat are more likely to be playing up.

Also, just to double check, any leaks from the exhaust flexi

[Enceladus]

The discrepancy of 11 degrees between cold coolant and ambient air

I'm not sure where you get that from.
4°C is the reported coolant temp in the trace at startup.
7°C is the displayed temp on the dash, so ambient air temp.
7°C is also the MET office temp for the area and time of day.
18°C is the reported Intake Air Temp in the trace at startup.

Given that the engine has cooled overnight it's quite plausible that it hasn't yet warmed to ambient. Regardless, the discrepancy is only 3°C which is well within the margin of accuracy of the sensors and entirely plausible.

However the IAT is not plausible. At startup the intake air is reported as 18°C. It should be ambient or close to and it's 11°C higher. It rises steadily to a peak of 42°C. To me that's too high even allowing for the warming engine radiating heat into the incoming air. Granted the car is not moving so the radiated heat might have more effect than on a moving car.

I expect the IAT sensor is located somewhere downstream of the intake air filter, probably by the MAF, but upstream of the manifold. I suggest removing the IAT and cleaning the element with a suitable aerosol. If there's no improvement then replace it with the best available. The InterMotor/Fuel Parts version should be OK.

There isn't any evidence the ECU is faulty. It's the most reliable part of any car. If there is an issue it will be one or more sensors or the wiring loom. So don't bother getting it tested yet.

[addy]

Found this for IAT https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-0-Air-Intake-Temperature-Sensor-94-to-01-Sender-Lucas-6238331/233441781794 Seems correct?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-0280130107-Bosch-Sender-Transmitter-7770239-90410792/233378898181.
But according to this, there are two types as my engine# is 14163204, but this says it will fit, yet only fits:-Model year from: 04/1994; Engine no. up to: 08137540.

I used the code given by vauxhall to search with. I know that there is a black capped one aswell, but it was definately a blue one on the car, with a square connector.

Are Bosch and Lucas parts still good as aftermarket?

Addy

[addy]

Exhaust is new from downpipe to back box, as old one had too many rust holes. Made sure downpipe to manifold and cat to middle section were ok, with no leaks.

[Enceladus]

As well as renewing the cat downpipe and the exhaust you also replaced the lambda O2 sensor? Or have I got that wrong?

I don't think the Bosch 0280130107 - GM 90410792 coolant temperature sensor you linked to above is correct for your car. It's the same as Fuel Parts WS1036. V6 has Bosch sensors.

Your car has/had GM #90411977 which is Fuel Parts WS1044. Your original GM part was likely supplied by Siemens as 5WK90601.
I might add that I've seen no evidence that the Fuel Parts WS1044 sensor you recently fitted is bad.

[addy]

Yes replaced O2 sensor with a NTK OTA7L-3C4 one, as told NTK are the best. Checked on their webcat and fitted the one for the car. https://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/car_commercial_extra.php?id=11251  The car is a 1995 2lt 16v four cylinder X20XEV first registered 13 October 1995 not a V6

You are correct the ECT part was Siemens 5WK90601, Fuel Parts equivalent is WS1044. Cleaned IAT it is showing 22c with engine not running, temp outside is 10c off met site.

Found this for IAT https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-0-Air-Intake-Temperature-Sensor-94-to-01-Sender-Lucas-6238331/233441781794 Seems correct? Are Lucas any good still?

Even with the temp sensor fluctuating as you said?

[Doctor Gollum]

Found this for IAT https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-0-Air-Intake-Temperature-Sensor-94-to-01-Sender-Lucas-6238331/233441781794 Seems correct?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-0280130107-Bosch-Sender-Transmitter-7770239-90410792/233378898181.
But according to this, there are two types as my engine# is 14163204, but this says it will fit, yet only fits:-Model year from: 04/1994; Engine no. up to: 08137540.

I used the code given by vauxhall to search with. I know that there is a black capped one aswell, but it was definately a blue one on the car, with a square connector.

Are Bosch and Lucas parts still good as aftermarket?

Addy

If the car currently has a blue Bosch type plug fitted, then that surely must be the correct type to fit

I would buy Bosch/Lucas/Siemens in preference to a brand I hadn't heard of.

[Doctor Gollum]

The discrepancy of 11 degrees between cold coolant and ambient air

I'm not sure where you get that from.
4°C is the reported coolant temp in the trace at startup.
7°C is the displayed temp on the dash, so ambient air temp.
7°C is also the MET office temp for the area and time of day.
18°C is the reported Intake Air Temp in the trace at startup....

However the IAT is not plausible. At startup the intake air is reported as 18°C. It should be ambient or close to and it's 11°C higher.

@Enculades,

I 'got' that from simple maths. 

If the ambient air temp is 7, yet without running, the IAT sees 18, the difference, by your own admission, is 11 degrees, which isn't right Will you at least concede that on a cold engine, the intake and coolant temps should all, near as damn it, match the ambient temperature?

At the end of the day, either the car isn't getting properly up to temperature or it doesn't think it is and until this is resolved, anything else is confusing the issue by not resolving the temperature discrepancies as reported on the live data.

@Addy, If it was my car, I would be changing the above list... (IAT, ecu coolant temp, radiator thermo switches x2 and thermostat) Hence my advice to do so

[Enceladus]

Found this for IAT https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-2-0-Air-Intake-Temperature-Sensor-94-to-01-Sender-Lucas-6238331/233441781794 Seems correct?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-0280130107-Bosch-Sender-Transmitter-7770239-90410792/233378898181.
But according to this, there are two types as my engine# is 14163204, but this says it will fit, yet only fits:-Model year from: 04/1994; Engine no. up to: 08137540.

I used the code given by vauxhall to search with. I know that there is a black capped one aswell, but it was definately a blue one on the car, with a square connector.

Are Bosch and Lucas parts still good as aftermarket?

Addy

If the car currently has a blue Bosch type plug fitted, then that surely must be the correct type to fit

I would buy Bosch/Lucas/Siemens in preference to a brand I hadn't heard of.

But the car doesn't have a blue Bosch ECU coolant temperature sensor. The OP has posted that the original sensor fitted was a Siemens 5WK90601, which unfortunately also has a blue connector. He then replaced it with an aftermarket Fuel Parts/Intermotor sensor part # WS1044 also with a blue connector which is supposed to be equivalent to the original GM / Siemens part. Might well be that the Bosch and Siemens  are functionally the same, however the Bosch and the Siemens parts have different GM part numbers which implies they are not interchangeable.

In any event there is nothing in the last data trace to suggest that the Fuel Parts sensor is not working properly. It reported the coolant as 4°C when the ambient air was around 7°C, which is entirely plausible given that the engine was left cool overnight in cold weather.

The temperature switches for the fans are a different matter. At the moment we don't know when they kick in.

It seems to me that the IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor is out of kilter and cleaning it has not improved the reading. Since a Vauxhall one can't be had then it's aftermarket for a replacement. Your best option would be a Siemens or a VDO re-branded Siemens. That said the Lucas one might just as good as any of the others.

And the new Circoli thermostat is still suspect. It appears to be opening to full flow too early or might be jammed. All preventing the engine from getting to operating temperature.

[Doctor Gollum]

The alternative has a different plug fitting. Ergo, if the loom has a Bosch plug and the sensor has a Bosch plug then it stands to reason that the sensor fitted with the Bosch plug is the correct one for that car. 

Or have I missed something

[Enceladus]

@DG
I don't know if the Bosch coolant temperature sensor has an identical connector to the Siemens one. But they are both blue.  I have one here from a Carlton or a Senator, can't remember which, and it's also blue. Seems blue designates the ECU / fuel map temperature sensor.

What I do know is that the coolant temp sensors have different GM part numbers. The Bosch would appear to be for cars with Bosch electronics. The OP's car has Simtec and the GM part number for the sensor equates to the Siemens sensor. That's why I say the Bosch part, linked to above, might not work (properly).

And in any event he's already replaced his original Siemens sensor with an Intermotor/Fuel Parts sensor. The I/FP catalogue says their product is equivalent to the original Siemens sensor. The Bosch sensor is equivalent to a different Fuel Parts sensor.

And once again why replace the original sensor again with yet another aftermarket sensor since there is nothing to suggest that the newly installed Fuel Parts sensor is not working properly? If it really needs to be replaced again he'd be best served with a genuine GM Vauxhall sensor or a genuine Siemens sensor. In fact why not re-install the original Siemens sensor and see how that behaves.

The bill for replacing parts is mounting up with no real progress.

@addy
I also notice that the battery is a bit flat. The resting voltage is 11.6V and the voltage dropped to below 9.0V whilst cranking. I'd expect it won't start the car much longer. I'd charge it properly or you might be needing a new battery as well.