Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Matchless on 10 August 2006, 09:57:31

Title: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Matchless on 10 August 2006, 09:57:31
Does anyone know if this wonderful feature can be disabled?
My street is a fair distance from the main road and has parked cars, school kids, side streets etc so I drive gently along pulling 2700 rpm in first looking like I dont know how to change gear.
I have tried using the snow button which is OK except when I forget to switch it off again once I reach the main road.
There must be a way of knobbling this.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Admin on 10 August 2006, 10:48:20
I think it is probably thermostatically controlled so fooling it should not be too difficult with the correct resistor.

However, the sensor is probably in the gearbox....  :(

I am sure a certain work colleague will know the answer!  :)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Matchless on 10 August 2006, 11:06:43
The function is supposed to be to help warm up the cats so that the cats start to clean up the exhaust emissions more quickly following cold start.

I wondered if the engine ecu set a flag derived from coolant temp or commencement of closed loop fuelling or similar to tell the gearbox to revert to normal change points.
I doubt if the 'box ecu makes the decision based on its own temp etc.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Admin on 10 August 2006, 12:42:55
Good point, I forgot it was used to improve the emission controls.  :-[

I guess then it is triggered by close loop fuelling as that would make the most sense... well to me anyway!

I now await a full and detailed explanation from Mark of the "benefits" of this system. :)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Matchless on 10 August 2006, 13:37:39
I did ask Mark.......


He didnt know how it worked. :o
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Kev on 10 August 2006, 14:07:20
Quote
I did ask Mark.......


He didnt know how it worked. :o
I find that astonishing!  :o

Are you sure?
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 August 2006, 15:16:36
I will study the diagrams....you have to remember that up until recently my only Omega had the optional driver involvement pack (i.e third pedal.... ;D)

Seem to recall a single connection to the auto box.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Andy B on 10 August 2006, 16:53:21
Senators do/did this too.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 10 August 2006, 17:46:00
Quote
Does anyone know if this wonderful feature can be disabled?
My street is a fair distance from the main road and has parked cars, school kids, side streets etc so I drive gently along pulling 2700 rpm in first looking like I dont know how to change gear.
I have tried using the snow button which is OK except when I forget to switch it off again once I reach the main road.
There must be a way of knobbling this.
Mine changes up after less than 100 yards. If I take my foot off the pedal for a second it seems to encourage it to change up sooner, but that could be just my imagination
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
You could let the engine tick over for a bit longer before you pull away. That's not good for the engine, but it might make the gearbox change up sooner.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Andy B on 10 August 2006, 18:25:18
Quote
.....
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
Wrong! It works when you press it starting you off in 3rd gear! Air temp is nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Salty on 10 August 2006, 20:55:38
Quote
Quote
.....
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
Wrong! It works when you press it starting you off in 3rd gear! Air temp is nothing to do with it.


I think thats right, just not sure if its third you set off in? You should be able to activate it as long as your doing less than 30mph. I think its supposed to reduce the chance of wheelspin in slippy conditions
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Andy B on 10 August 2006, 20:58:45
Quote
.......
I think thats right, just not sure if its third you set off in? You should be able to activate it as long as your doing less than 30mph. I think its supposed to reduce the chance of wheelspin in slippy conditions

Definately 3rd you set off in. Reduces wheel spin cos .... you're in third!  ::)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 10 August 2006, 22:33:17
Quote
Quote
.....
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
Wrong! It works when you press it starting you off in 3rd gear! Air temp is nothing to do with it.
I stand corrected. [smiley=embarassed.gif]
I've just been out to the car and tried it. You're right it does work.
I'm sure that on my old P Reg, it only worked in low temperatures. Perhaps they changed it, or perhaps I'm wrong about that too.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 10 August 2006, 22:34:30
Quote
Quote
Quote
.....
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
Wrong! It works when you press it starting you off in 3rd gear! Air temp is nothing to do with it.
I stand corrected. [smiley=embarassed.gif]
I've just been out to the car and tried it. You're right it does work. According to the handbook it switches off when you reach 80 KPH.
I'm sure that on my old P Reg, it only worked in low temperatures. Perhaps they changed it, or perhaps I'm wrong about that too.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Kev on 10 August 2006, 22:35:46
Quote
Quote
Quote
.....
The "Snow button" should only work when the air temperature is around freezing. If your's works in the summer, there's something wrong with it.
Wrong! It works when you press it starting you off in 3rd gear! Air temp is nothing to do with it.
I stand corrected. [smiley=embarassed.gif]
I've just been out to the car and tried it. You're right it does work.
I'm sure that on my old P Reg, it only worked in low temperatures. Perhaps they changed it, or perhaps I'm wrong about that too.
Don't fret.

It's not like you're an Outcast.  ;)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: hotel21 on 10 August 2006, 23:14:50
The 'S' bit  or winter mode is also designed to work in such situations where, say, you get stuck in mud or whilst launching your boat on a seaweed heavy slip in the south of France at the height of summer. Not just for snow or ice, but that one is more easily portrayed in the icon on the button.  

B
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Kev on 10 August 2006, 23:18:33
Quote
The 'S' bit  or winter mode is also designed to work in such situations where, say, you get stuck in mud or whilst launching your boat on a seaweed heavy slip in the south of France at the height of summer. Not just for snow or ice, but that one is more easily portrayed in the icon on the button.  

B
;D

That would be one cool looking button though wouldn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: hotel21 on 10 August 2006, 23:21:19
I'm thinking along the lines of a nice yacht outline, rather than a snowflake.....
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Kev on 10 August 2006, 23:24:00
It's like the alarm button, showing the intruder running away.

A true representation should actually show your neighbours closing their windows.  ;D
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Andy B on 11 August 2006, 07:15:55
Quote
......I'm sure that on my old P Reg, it only worked in low temperatures. Perhaps they changed it, or perhaps I'm wrong about that too.
Probably!   ;)  My even older G reg Senator worked the same.  ::) (different cutting out speed though.)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 11 August 2006, 08:56:44
Quote
The 'S' bit  or winter mode is also designed to work in such situations where, say, you get stuck in mud
B
I thought the "S" button made it change up later and the "Snowflake" made it change up sooner. Is it possible to use both together? Must try that.[smiley=undecided.gif]
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheBoy on 11 August 2006, 09:03:15
Not quite, Snow makes it lock out 1st and 2nd so that car is more controllable in slippery conditions. Switch off when you go above 50mph (coz obviously not slippery any more, as you wouldn't be going faster in those sorts of conditions ;)), or by pressing snowflake again...
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: RossPhim on 11 August 2006, 09:12:46
My snow button switches itself off at arounf 35mph.
Should it do this?
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 11 August 2006, 09:12:59
Quote
Not quite, Snow makes it lock out 1st and 2nd so that car is more controllable in slippery conditions. Switch off when you go above 50mph (coz obviously not slippery any more, as you wouldn't be going faster in those sorts of conditions ;)), or by pressing snowflake again...
Only once, and that ended sideways into a ditch.   [smiley=shocked.gif] [smiley=cry.gif]
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheOutcast on 11 August 2006, 09:14:54
Quote
My snow button switches itself off at arounf 35mph.
Should it do this?
According to the handbook it switches off at 80 KPH, which, I think, is about 50 MPH.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: The Barge Captain on 11 August 2006, 09:32:29
Snow button works fine until you get caught in heavy snow in Cornwall in November, then after about 1/2 hour of backlaning to avoid traffic it all gets so hot and bothered that it stops working, leaving you to start off in first!! LOL.  Eventually came back on again after things cooled down.

Snow in the pollen filter doesn't do it much good either.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: TheBoy on 11 August 2006, 09:57:00
Snow mode will put extra strain of g/b as there will obviously be much more slip on the gearbox. And due to speed (very slow), the autobox radiator is not going to cool it down much.

If you've had this happen, its probably burned the g/b fluid, so you'll need to change it...
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Auto Addict on 11 August 2006, 17:05:40
I've been watching this thread with interest.

My 2.2 does not 'hold' in the gears when cold, it changes normally.

The only problem I ever had with the auto box holding in gear was when the engine was hot and I started off on a down hill slope, it would not change out of 1st until around 3,500 rpm.

The auto ECU was changed under warranty, never had any problems since.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 13 August 2006, 08:25:00
Quote
I've been watching this thread with interest.

My 2.2 does not 'hold' in the gears when cold, it changes normally.

The only problem I ever had with the auto box holding in gear was when the engine was hot and I started off on a down hill slope, it would not change out of 1st until around 3,500 rpm.

The auto ECU was changed under warranty, never had any problems since.

I wouldnt worry about it too much AA.....but it should really.
Mine does, pull away from cold (and its still on petrol at this point) and it revs to about 3-3.5k before changing.....even constant speed or slowing down it will hold the revs high for the 1st 1/2mile or so.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 13 August 2006, 08:29:25
Just had a thought AA.....

Does your sports mode work ok?......coz i think gearbox just goes into sports mode for a short while when cold (ie holding the gears and letting it rev higher)
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Auto Addict on 13 August 2006, 15:35:50
Quote
Just had a thought AA.....

Does your sports mode work ok?......coz i think gearbox just goes into sports mode for a short while when cold (ie holding the gears and letting it rev higher)

Yes [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 August 2006, 16:46:53
Been doing some digging on this....there are quite a few signals between the autobox and ECU....one of which might be a temp signal (there is certainly RPM and retard - ground this signal if converting to manual) plus a couple of others.

Need to get the old AVO on the signals and monitor them during warm up to see what they do.

By the way, mine does NOT hold first when cold......
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Salty on 13 August 2006, 16:57:18
When cold and setting off down the street mine holds first up to about 3to 3.5 thousand rpm, then it changes up. within a minute I reach a junction and stop. when I set off again it changes normally. My old senny did exactly the same.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: B52 on 13 August 2006, 19:04:53
Sometimes mine delays 1st to 2nd change (until 25mph) if Im moving off on even a slight uphill - thats quite annoying too. Garage told me its responding to the accelerator sensor movement.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: B52 on 13 August 2006, 19:05:50
Hot or cold too!
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Paul M on 14 August 2006, 23:24:46
Thank opps both my cars are manual... I'll decide if I want to do 6000 RPM in first or 800 RPM in 6th thanks  ;D
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Hillper on 15 August 2006, 00:09:30
Same goes for autobox limp home mode.

I'll decide if I want to wreck my gearbox by driving it normally through all gears.
I don't want to be forced to creep along in first at 1500 rpm max.
Title: Re: Autobox delayed change-up when engine cold
Post by: Markjay on 16 August 2006, 14:34:01
On my 2.6 FBW, I can by-pass this feature by easing-off the pedal slightly just when the transmission seems insisting on not shifting-up, then pressing the accelerator again slowly and the box shifts-up as soon as I re-apply the pressure on the pedal even at low rpm.

This works for all gears and it is how I drive the car until it warms up. The 'downside' is that the this rsults in car being driven very mildly and you can't drive the car hard if using this technique, but then again you probably wouldn’t want to drive it hard anyway with a cold engine...

I did not try this on my previous 2.5, so I don't know if this possible only on the FBW or will it work also with the old-style throttle engines - can someone check?