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[Viral_Jim]

As part of the new house design, and off the back of the other network related thread, I've been thinking about network hardware and it's raised a couple of questions. Which hopefully a few members here, or indeed our esteemed leader may be able to answer.

Im planning to run in cables down to network sockets for TVs, PS4, SWMBO'S work pc and a few Sonos products. I'll also need to retain WiFi for ad hoc phone and tablet browsing.

 I'll need to run in some cable to add a secondary WiFi point and network sockets in the detached garage building (part of which will surreptitiously become my office in due course). I also may want to run a cable down to a greenhouse at the end of the patch of land for a raspberry pi project in the long term. So, questions...

1. Can someone recommend an alternative to the BT/sky homebox router that will support c 10 wired connections in the main house and do WiFi and act as my ISP box.
2. Can I run network cable alongside the ringmains without causing interference/impacting performance.
3. As per 1. But a smaller unit for the garage C5 wired connections and some WiFi.
4. Is there a max run length for network cable, if so, what is it. 5. Budget, particularly re. 1& 3, the WiFi doesn't need to be enterprise grade stuff, so neither does the price tag .

Thanks in advance 

[Rods2]

I can answer question 2.

Yes, you can run along a ring main as cat5/6 twisted cable is twisted to stop mains interference. Just be aware of minimum bend radius of iirc 20mm and maximum amount untwisted at a connector.

Wiring regs. prevent it being run in the same conduit as mains cable where it must be in its own trunking.

[TheBoy]

Depending on speeds depends on cables.  If you think you might in the future make extensive use on 10Gbps, use CAT6, but that has lower cable length limits, and is also more difficult to terminate well.  CAT5 is good enough for 1Gbps, but in reality is limited to that, although you can often get more than that - the socket in my kitchen is normal phone grade 6 wire (not rated even to 10Mbps) and I'm running it at 100Mbps over about a 7m run.

Be aware of the lower cost CAT5E cables about, they are not solid copper, but something called Copper Clad Aluminium (CCA) - which despite the Cat5e naming the manufacturers may give it is NOT Cat5e compliant. It would also appear to degrade over time.

Personally, I'd go CAT6, for future proofing.  And make sure you run enough everywhere. When I moved here 17.5yrs ago, I never envisaged needing networking behind the TV. Now I have to keep swapping cables over behind there as I only have 2, and the TV is permanently on wifi (and only does 2.4Ghz, which is a massive problem where I live)

If running and terminating yourself, there are plenty of utube vids and web tutorials. Watch a few, as some are BS. If you've never done it before, you'll find it fiddly, but just keep practicing and practicing.  Also, be aware there are 2 different common wiring standards, 568A and 568B.  Ensure *everything* is wired to same standard - some faceplates might be colour codes to 586A, some 568B, but most nowadays are marked with both (in itself could be confusing ).


Any cable going outdoors should really be shielded twisted pair network cable, with each end earthed.  These are more difficult to run, and putting the connectors on are a bit of a bitch


Depending on your needs, I'd probably fit a reasonably decent switch in house and garage, probably 1Gbps for now, but once 10Gbps stuff drops, leave yourself the option to swap switches out in 2 or 3 years, and have a 10Gbps link between the 2...  ...obviously depending on how much data your will be pushing between the 2 buildings (eg, if you ever think you'll have a central storage device, you will want ultra fast access to it).  Also, decide if you are going to need PoE on the switches.  The ex-Linksys Cisco Small Business switches are worth a good look (SG200 series for layer 2 only, or SG300 or SG500 for layer 3 - all can do vlan, qos etc), and reasonably priced...   ...but very different beasts from the full managed Cisco stuff.  If you don't mind rebooting the switches regularly due to ports not waking up, the non-PoE Netgear GS724/GS748 are very good value, and completely silent due to fanless designs.

For garage wifi access point, Ubiquiti do some bloody good APs now. Bit of a pig to set up sometimes, but are getting better, and I think you'd have no problem setting it up. Defo worth a look.  Nowadays, go for a minimum of AC spec on the 5Ghz band. Everything will be >300Mbps on 2.4Ghz band. (5Ghz has better speed, but doesn't penetrate walls well. 2.4Ghz has less speed, more contention (with Bluetooth, video senders, other wifi, microwaves etc etc) but better penetration.

For routers, drop me a PM - what I use here is also an important part of security, so I tend not to broadcast it, as its the first link from the Internet.

[Kevin Wood]

Most has already been said but I think the official segment length for Ethernet is 100M, or 55M for 10G in CAT-6. These days, you're likely to have an active device at each end (at least a switch, as basic hubs are no more) and that resets the length.

I know for industrial wiring it needs to be in separate ducts, but that is an environment where the mains wiring is often single sheathed strands direct in the ducts rather than the T&E cable used domestically. I certainly have no issue with running them together, but for a new build you might as well find out the rules and do it properly. You'd have to run it next to something pretty hostile to impact performance.

Don't really have recent experience on the hardware. I have a very old Draytek ADSL router that has been great for years but no idea what their current stuff is like. I have a couple of Netgear switches which are great while they work but out of the blue they sometimes disable one of their ports until you power cycle them, which is a PITA. 

[Kevin Wood]

..and PoE is quite useful if running raspberry Pi's and the like. 

You can get some nice PoE adaptors that will piggy back onto a Pi.

Also if you have any ideas of using IP based security cameras and the like.

[TheBoy]

Also if you have any ideas of using IP based security cameras and the like.

If going down this line and needing recording, you could do an awful lot worse than Hikvision, I've set up a couple of their systems, very very good.  And their DVRs have built in PoE (but cant be used as a switch I don't think).

Downside is that 1080p cameras are around £100 a pop, and the DVR is around £300 plus storage.

[Viral_Jim]

Many thanks all, definite food for thought! The Cisco Small Business gear is right in the price bracket I'm comfortable with and is going on the list. Reliability is paramount as SWMBO is frequently working at home when I'm not, to tight deadlines and the kind of earache I'd get if hardware failure disrupted her work doesn't bear repeating  . One thing, when I googled the unit, it has the ethernet ports and power as expected, but it also seems to have a single serial port on it  What purpose does that serve?

Again, Ubiquiti is at a price point I'm happy with, and also looks pretty cool, which appeals to my inner child. 

When the time comes I'll definitely revisit this topic as it would be good to know where to buy from, the branded stuff is obvious as I would imagine there are comparatively few knock-offs/clones about. But when it comes to network cable and sockets, I wouldn't know good from bad, other than buying on price, which isn't usually a good way to proceed when it comes to tech.

Everything will be >300Mbps on 2.4Ghz band. (5Ghz has better speed, but doesn't penetrate walls well. 2.4Ghz has less speed, more contention (with Bluetooth, video senders, other wifi, microwaves etc etc) but better penetration.

Wall penetration shouldn't be an issue, the building is going to have no structural internal walls by the time we're done, so it should only need to penetrate plasterboard and some wooden studs  . Wifi on the decking would be nice, but I could live with lower signal strength - the very definition of a first world problem!

I had never come across PoE until now, I can see it has lots of potential! 

If going down this line and needing recording, you could do an awful lot worse than Hikvision, I've set up a couple of their systems, very very good.  And their DVRs have built in PoE (but cant be used as a switch I don't think).

TBH I may in the future, but its not on the list for now, I personally know two people who have had cars taken off the drive, got extremely clear shots of the scumbags responsible (In one case including a full face shot from a connected wifi doorbell) and netted no result from the rozzers. Makes me wonder what the point would be....

[TheBoy]

Many switches have serial ports on for the CLI and initial config.  99.99% of the time on "Smart" switches (the bracket below proper enterprise stuff, still capable of semi advanced features like vlans etc) its not needed, and all config is via a web interface

[iansoutham]

Also if you have any ideas of using IP based security cameras and the like.

If going down this line and needing recording, you could do an awful lot worse than Hikvision, I've set up a couple of their systems, very very good.  And their DVRs have built in PoE (but cant be used as a switch I don't think).

Downside is that 1080p cameras are around £100 a pop, and the DVR is around £300 plus storage.

 Very good stuff is HikVision.

We use it in work and I have that and Lorex for my home system which runs 4K and was good enough to see a cigarette being tossed by the neighbour next door causing a fire on their other next door neighbour property.

[zirk]

When the time comes I'll definitely revisit this topic as it would be good to know where to buy from, the branded stuff is obvious as I would imagine there are comparatively few knock-offs/clones about. But when it comes to network cable and sockets, I wouldn't know good from bad, other than buying on price, which isn't usually a good way to proceed when it comes to tech.

We the time comes give me shout, I got a few Trade Accounts with the Major UK Suppliers, good quality Cable isnt cheap anyway, but where you will save money is on Trade is the likes of Snap in Modules, Face Plates, Patch Panels and Routers etc. compared to the likes of PC World / Screwfix 

Forget buying the Structured Cable stuff off eBay most of it is Chinese tat.

Personally Cat 5e is probably good enough for your needs, unless there really long Runs, which is very unlikely for House use, and a lot easier to Terminate over Cat 6, especially if youve never done it before..

[TheBoy]

Personally Cat 5e is probably good enough for your needs, unless there really long Runs, which is very unlikely for House use, and a lot easier to Terminate over Cat 6, especially if youve never done it before..

Part of me agrees with that (and think I hinted at that in my original post), but also part of me thinks its not a lot of extra hassle to future proof yourself.  Due to what I do, I would defo Cat6 mine if I was doing it today, as I most definitely do use some 10Gb today.  But others will have to decide if they think they will ever need more than 1Gb.  But do you remember it wasn't that long ago that you thought 100Mb was more than enough

[Kevin Wood]

.. of course, in 5 years time we'll probably all be kicking ourselves for not wiring up our houses with fibre.

[Viral_Jim]

Given that the place currently receives a mighty 5mbps broadband, I think cat6 will be enough future proofing for a while! 

[Kevin Wood]

Given that the place currently receives a mighty 5mbps broadband, I think cat6 will be enough future proofing for a while! 

True, if access the the internet is your main requirement, but, as mentioned, you might want a bigger pipe to access stuff on a home server.

[Viral_Jim]

Yup and I wonder if in time that may be the way it goes, given the c@rp internet connection, holding stuff locally (as opposed to streaming HD content which is a no-no on 5mb) may well be the way to go.

Question for our Sky correspondent possibly - does any of sky's on demand content (eg boxed sets) come down through the dish, or is it all over the phone line?