Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 09 September 2018, 12:44:07
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Figures according to Homelet Rental Index.............July 2018.
UK average...................£937
UK average excluding London......£777
South East................. £1041
London .....................£1615
The cheapest is the North East at £525.
These are just crazy figures. Presumably private renting is far more expensive than social housing rent.
How does anyone afford these rents?
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
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cardboard boxes are cheap but finding a shop doorway or park bench with a long secured lease is quite hard . :-\
so some people have to pay stupid rent prices . if they don't have a spare £50,000 as a deposit for a mortgage :P
there used to be council houses but they got sold off cheap by the conservatives .
the prisons are full and workhouses are closed . :'(
"we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute" :P
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
£25800 P/A on rent..........AND try and save. :o :o :o :o
Can't be easy. :-\
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cardboard boxes are cheap but finding a shop doorway or park bench with a long secured lease is quite hard . :-\
so some people have to pay stupid rent prices . if they don't have a spare £50,000 as a deposit for a mortgage :P
there used to be council houses but they got sold off cheap by the conservatives .
the prisons are full and workhouses are closed . :'(
"we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute" :P
Back in the 'good old days' I took out a 100% mortgage and bought a new Yamaha FJ1200 (£4840) with the money I would have used as a deposit.
Not sensible but far more fun. :)
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
London really is some form of parallel universe.
£700,000 for a one bed third floor flat. The mind boggles. Just imagine what STMO could buy in Barnsley for that kind of money.
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A friend of mine who lives in Singapore is on the move to a detached 4 bed house with a pool. :y
The rent is £8700 a month at todays exchange rate! :o
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£700,000 for a one bed third floor flat. The mind boggles. Just imagine what STMO could buy in Barnsley for that kind of money.
FTFY :y
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Not the answer but these pods maybe coming to a place near you soon.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/09/06/inenglish/1536222871_147929.html
Airbnb hasn't helped the situation in any tourist destination
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Done a water leakage job at a "Townhouse" (3 floors) in Enfield yesterday . . .nothing special , in fact pretty run down ???
Once inside found it was split into 9 single rooms all induvidually let by the landlord at £200 a WEEK each . . . That equates £7200 per month :o :o :o or £ 86 Grand a year
Some property owners are making a LOT of money :o :o :o :o :o
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Not the answer but these pods maybe coming to a place near you soon.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/09/06/inenglish/1536222871_147929.html
Airbnb hasn't helped the situation in any tourist destination
Haibu means beehive in Japanese, and the company website says that people are social creatures who were meant to live in communities that help each other out, like bees in a hive.
What have they been smoking? ;D
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Having spent yet another night in Londonium, shocked I couldn't get food in any local pub or restaurant when I finished work around 10:45pm (I can even get a table in Brackley at that time), I really, really, really do fail to see the fascination or desire to want to be anywhere near that shithole.
Foodwise, I supped several pints of cider on a very empty stomach, which made me a bit slow the next morning.
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Having spent yet another night in Londonium, shocked I couldn't get food in any local pub or restaurant when I finished work around 10:45pm (I can even get a table in Brackley at that time), I really, really, really do fail to see the fascination or desire to want to be anywhere near that shithole.
Foodwise, I supped several pints of cider on a very empty stomach, which made me a bit slow the next morning.
I used to find the same when I visited London years ago. Nice to visit, nicer to get away. All the hassle with parking and traffic and the prices.
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Figures according to Homelet Rental Index.............July 2018.
UK average...................£937
UK average excluding London......£777
South East................. £1041
London .....................£1615
The cheapest is the North East at £525.
These are just crazy figures. Presumably private renting is far more expensive than social housing rent.
How does anyone afford these rents?
The UK 'average' is like any other average figure, Bollix. It doesn't take into account any regional variations. We rented a new build, 3 bed detached house while looking for this one...£575 a month.
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In Barnsley, you can get a very decent house for £150000. If you have a 10% deposit, i.e. £15000, your mortgage repayment at, say, 3%, would be around £640 a month. Much better than renting.
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Both my "kids" rented till early this year. They only jumped onto housing ladder as I pressurized them like hell, Oh and put hand in my pocket ::) BUT, otherwise they seemed to think it was normal and all made sense. They don't call it "generation rent" for nothing.
I have a flat in London my tenant of 3 years pays around £1k pm, businessman in Liverpool St. He's happy. and his rent is my pension. Migv6 daughter should look at Enfield Town, 25 mins L'pool St and half the rent, and even after travel costs . . . I know . . ;)
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Done a water leakage job at a "Townhouse" (3 floors) in Enfield yesterday . . .nothing special , in fact pretty run down ???
Once inside found it was split into 9 single rooms all induvidually let by the landlord at £200 a WEEK each . . . That equates £7200 per month :o :o :o or £ 86 Grand a year
Some property owners are making a LOT of money :o :o :o :o :o
I wonder about the immigration status of the tenants ::) I'll guess that the house was Edmonton way
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Both my "kids" rented till early this year. They only jumped onto housing ladder as I pressurized them like hell, Oh and put hand in my pocket ::) BUT, otherwise they seemed to think it was normal and all made sense. They don't call it "generation rent" for nothing.
I have a flat in London my tenant of 3 years pays around £1k pm, businessman in Liverpool St. He's happy. and his rent is my pension. Migv6 daughter should look at Enfield Town, 25 mins L'pool St and half the rent, and even after travel costs . . . I know . . ;)
What happens when the next recession hits/he loses his job/you can't find a tenant to replace him for a similar amount?
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
Liverpool St 25 mins no changes. Station 1 minute walk. Trains every 20 mins. Rent half what she's paying. No, I am not trying to sell ! ;D
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/enfield/dunstan-mews/en1-1gf/?q=EN1%201GF&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home
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Both my "kids" rented till early this year. They only jumped onto housing ladder as I pressurized them like hell, Oh and put hand in my pocket ::) BUT, otherwise they seemed to think it was normal and all made sense. They don't call it "generation rent" for nothing.
I have a flat in London my tenant of 3 years pays around £1k pm, businessman in Liverpool St. He's happy. and his rent is my pension. Migv6 daughter should look at Enfield Town, 25 mins L'pool St and half the rent, and even after travel costs . . . I know . . ;)
What happens when the next recession hits/he loses his job/you can't find a tenant to replace him for a similar amount?
Sell up. Prices would need to drop enormously for me to lose money.
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Done a water leakage job at a "Townhouse" (3 floors) in Enfield yesterday . . .nothing special , in fact pretty run down ???
Once inside found it was split into 9 single rooms all induvidually let by the landlord at £200 a WEEK each . . . That equates £7200 per month :o :o :o or £ 86 Grand a year
Some property owners are making a LOT of money :o :o :o :o :o
I wonder about the immigration status of the tenants ::) I'll guess that the house was Edmonton way
Bit of a sluth you Mr Rog . . :y Edmonton end of Enners :y
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Both my "kids" rented till early this year. They only jumped onto housing ladder as I pressurized them like hell, Oh and put hand in my pocket ::) BUT, otherwise they seemed to think it was normal and all made sense. They don't call it "generation rent" for nothing.
I have a flat in London my tenant of 3 years pays around £1k pm, businessman in Liverpool St. He's happy. and his rent is my pension. Migv6 daughter should look at Enfield Town, 25 mins L'pool St and half the rent, and even after travel costs . . . I know . . ;)
What happens when the next recession hits/he loses his job/you can't find a tenant to replace him for a similar amount?
Sell up. Prices would need to drop enormously for me to lose money.
Assuming you can find a buyer... ::)
Obviously you have considered all of this or you would never have entertained the idea ;)
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Done a water leakage job at a "Townhouse" (3 floors) in Enfield yesterday . . .nothing special , in fact pretty run down ???
Once inside found it was split into 9 single rooms all induvidually let by the landlord at £200 a WEEK each . . . That equates £7200 per month :o :o :o or £ 86 Grand a year
Some property owners are making a LOT of money :o :o :o :o :o
I wonder about the immigration status of the tenants ::) I'll guess that the house was Edmonton way
Bit of a sluth you Mr Rog . . :y Edmonton end of Enners :y
Lived in Enfield for over 40 years . . .
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Both my "kids" rented till early this year. They only jumped onto housing ladder as I pressurized them like hell, Oh and put hand in my pocket ::) BUT, otherwise they seemed to think it was normal and all made sense. They don't call it "generation rent" for nothing.
I have a flat in London my tenant of 3 years pays around £1k pm, businessman in Liverpool St. He's happy. and his rent is my pension. Migv6 daughter should look at Enfield Town, 25 mins L'pool St and half the rent, and even after travel costs . . . I know . . ;)
What happens when the next recession hits/he loses his job/you can't find a tenant to replace him for a similar amount?
Sell up. Prices would need to drop enormously for me to lose money.
Assuming you can find a buyer... ::)
Obviously you have considered all of this or you would never have entertained the idea ;)
There's always an element of risk, but London is still generally a fairly safe bet, even with Brexit etc. We are thinking of selling in the next year or so anyway. I'm getting old . . . ???
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I think South Wales has some of the cheapest rents in the country, especially up in the Valleys. :y
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/48643433?search_identifier=1ab2cad3be4088569fb2641db5a3c0a6
I know this street (but it's not my house!) and although the area can be a bit 'gritty' it's semi rural with stunning views, on a bus route and close to the shops etc :)
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I think South Wales has some of the cheapest rents in the country, especially up in the Valleys. :y
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/48643433?search_identifier=1ab2cad3be4088569fb2641db5a3c0a6
I know this street (but it's not my house!) and although the area can be a bit 'gritty' it's semi rural with stunning views, on a bus route and close to the shops etc :)
How is the water bill on that place £44 a month?
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In Barnsley, you can get a very decent house for £150000. If you have a 10% deposit, i.e. £15000, your mortgage repayment at, say, 3%, would be around £640 a month. Much better than renting.
Three main problems with renting.
1......Over a 25 year period rents will 'usually' rise more than interest rates.
2. .....At the end of 25 years you own SFA.
3.......Rent only stops when you drop. Could be 50 years or more and you still own SFA.
4.......Cheaper to buy than to rent.
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
Liverpool St 25 mins no changes. Station 1 minute walk. Trains every 20 mins. Rent half what she's paying. No, I am not trying to sell ! ;D
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/enfield/dunstan-mews/en1-1gf/?q=EN1%201GF&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home
You don't understand (neither do I), where she lives is classes as Shoreditch, so worth every penny. ::)
She walks to work, which takes around 1o minutes apparently.
It looks like London house prices have started cooling off, so a year to 18 months might be a good time to take the plunge ?
She was well on the way to having a decent deposit but was out of work for 15 months until recently, so the savings almost disappeared.
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
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Also, the period she had out of work, should have shown her how easy it is to default and lose your home. No joke when you've put that much dosh into it.
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Daughter pays £2150 for a one bedroom, third floor flat near Liverpool street station. She is trying to save a deposit to buy something similar for around £700,000.
Utter madness, but its supply & demand.
Liverpool St 25 mins no changes. Station 1 minute walk. Trains every 20 mins. Rent half what she's paying. No, I am not trying to sell ! ;D
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/property/enfield/dunstan-mews/en1-1gf/?q=EN1%201GF&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home
You don't understand (neither do I), where she lives is classes as Shoreditch, so worth every penny. ::)
She walks to work, which takes around 1o minutes apparently.
It looks like London house prices have started cooling off, so a year to 18 months might be a good time to take the plunge ?
She was well on the way to having a decent deposit but was out of work for 15 months until recently, so the savings almost disappeared.
I know. My daughter & partner lived in a fantastic flat overlooking the sea in Poole. Wonderful etc, after I twisted arms they've bought a place, much more modest, but their outgoings have dropped significantly, and it's theirs ! The financial saving is going towards a move upmarket after a sensible time.
London prices are fairly stable, pehaps dropping slightly, but that's because they were so ridiculous. BUT the ridiculous prices a few years ago are why I moved to Wales ! The house I sold continued to go up up by about £200K :o
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
As Dave says, "Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else."
;)
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Two bedroom terraced house we used to rent near town centre was £395 per month when we moved out about 4yrs ago.Needed a bungalow for Maureens disabilities and started renting the housing association one I'm still in.The other week there was for sale a detached house[5 bedrooms I think]with some outbuildings and 9 acres of land near Market Raisen for £1.5m is Lord Opti selling part of his vast estate I wonder :-\
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All our rental properties are now sold , did very well from them but now had enough of everything it entails , as I've said on here many times, property is still the best place for any spare cash.
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In Barnsley, you can get a very decent house for £150000. If you have a 10% deposit, i.e. £15000, your mortgage repayment at, say, 3%, would be around £640 a month. Much better than renting.
I've never been to Barnsley. Ever. But I envisage its a much nicer place than Londonium.
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All our rental properties are now sold , did very well from them but now had enough of everything it entails , as I've said on here many times, property is still the best place for any spare cash.
Emphasis on spare ;) should be considered gravy rather than a primary revenue stream...
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In Barnsley, you can get a very decent house for £150000. If you have a 10% deposit, i.e. £15000, your mortgage repayment at, say, 3%, would be around £640 a month. Much better than renting.
I've never been to Barnsley. Ever. But I envisage its a much nicer place than Londonium.
some parts are........
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
As Dave says, "Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else."
;)
You need to bear in mind the shein this conversation. ;D There is always a justification for buying shoes etc.
But to be fair, she works extremely hard and long hours and can only bear it by having a half decent place to crash out at the end of the day.
She suspects that holding off from buying for the time being will turn out to be a wise decision. We shall see. ;)
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[Devils Advocate]
I am 36, my Missus is 28. We have no children and have agree'd that we will never have children.
We both earn decent money and could quite easily buy a house if we wanted to, but we like the fact that our outgoings are never likely to change. Interest rates are very low, but what about 5, 10 years time? Surely most of you remember the last recession? It very almost pushed my Parents to sell Kidneys to survive.
Yes, I'll never 'own' anything, and yes, I'll be paying the rent until I die, but at the same time, I do put something away with every pay-cheque.
For the record, we privately rent a 2 bedroom penthouse apartment just outside of the Bristol city boundary. We've been here for over 7 years, and despite genuinly looking at property, we couldn't invisage living elsewhere. Our Landlord is good-as-gold, we've had the ocassional problem which has been resolved extremely quickly, and the odd bottle of wine, or flowers have been left as a 'sorry'.
For me and the Wife, we like to holiday, we like to spend our income on other things than roof-tiles after a storm, or replacement floors after the washing mashine has shit itself.
And, finally, it's a possibility I may die tomorrow!
[/Devils Advocate]
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Here's a rule of thumb for buying...
Before you do anything, pay off any outstanding debts, limit retirement to 15% of your gross pay and save 3-6 months of household expenses... This is solely your go to 'oh shit' fund rather than using credit.
As much of a deposit as you can muster, but at least 20%. Then put the rest on a maximum of 15 year fixed rate and ensure that the repayment is no more than 25% of your household take home pay.
The key components are the amount of the monthly payment as a percentage of your net household income and the overall term.
Fifteen year fixed rate mortgages are rare, but 10 year ones are readily available and, anyway, your mortgage should be paid within 7-10 years.
Throw any spare cash at the mortgage until it is paid off, then throw everything at retirement.
If the numbers don't work then you are looking at too much house for your income. Or you need a better budget.
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Loads of Maths
Not quite clear-cut though. Take an example of a £225,000 house/flat. Nothing extravengant, just a reasonable 2bed Semi or 2bed Apartment.
Mortgage of £185,000 over 15 years would be roughly £1,250 a month.
That's IF you have a decent deposit to put down.
And the older generation wonder why so many people rent nowadays! ;D
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The concept is very simple, but doesn't quite work here as house prices are insane compared to rural Arkansas...
It is designed to ensure that the house is a blessing rather than a curse by ensuring that it is affordable...
https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/5-steps-to-buying-home-wont-bust-your-budget :y
That said, living in an expensive area simply means a larger deposit or a larger income...
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
'Slumming it' was, perhaps, the wrong term. But even paying £1500 a month would make a big difference in her savings, and I'm sure you'd get more than a cardboard box for that.
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
My income is barely into double figures, let alone six figures.
Same goes for my I.Q..... :)
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Cant vouch for your income, but...……. :P
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
I'm sure she enjoys the annual HMRC lube-free visit, then...
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
I'm sure she enjoys the annual HMRC lube-free visit, then...
Didn't realise they did any other kind of visit, TBH. :(
Oh, I tell a lie. They did helpfully send me a cheque this year to return my payment on account... After I specifically informed them that I was paying them both in January, as the amount wasn't large. I'm guessing they thought (as I did) that I'd then forget to make the 2nd payment. Ha! Nice try, suckers. Truth be told, I nearly did, but only nearly. Better luck next year. :P
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I think I still owe them a little over £3k .. really must pay that at some point!
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I think I still owe them a little over £3k .. really must pay that at some point!
You know it'll be the one dipped into adhesive and then ground carborundum next if you don't. :o
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Get it paid off already ::)
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Ditto. ;)
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
I'm sure she enjoys the annual HMRC lube-free visit, then...
She is on PAYE which is even worse. ::)
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If your daughter was really serious about a deposit, Albs, she would have been slumming it and not paying over two grand a month in rent. I realise, in her position, she couldn't have lived in a dive (friends round and all that) but with her being in banking, surely everyone would have seen the financial sense in it.
Living where she is, paying what she is on rent.. one assumes her income is well into six figures, so slumming it shouldn't be necessary..
Not "well into", but "just into". ;)
I'm sure she enjoys the annual HMRC lube-free visit, then...
She is on PAYE which is even worse. ::)
Saves forgetting to set aside...
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True, but no possibility for getting a good accountant to work out a good deal on your behalf either.
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I expect a lot of people of here were Liebour voters in 1997 and were part of the cause of the problem. Liebour have always had an open doors, let millions in, immigration policy, like the Stalinist strict planning rules which restricts the building of new houses and after Liebour have let millions in, new builds ended at all time lows especially after 2008 with McRuin's no-boom-or-bust, all bust crash. Why was anybody surprised that near zero interest rates, BOE quantitative easing making the banks awash with money, with the resultant property shortages, so prices and rents due to supply and demand exploded? :o
None of those events are ever difficult to predict along with a Treasury note after several Liebour terms, we've spent all the money on public services benefitting our union brothers, who in turn spend more sponsoring and donating to benefit Liebour, with this triples all round positive feedback loop, until we run out of other people's money. :( This happens every time. The stronger the economy when they get in the more terms it takes, with greater damage, to the economy until they hit bust. So you know, what the next Liebour government will do...
The Conservatives after 12 years should have just about got government borrowing and spending under control for Corbyn and Liebour to win the 2022 election and let rip with their high tax bust cycle...
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house. :y
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Just countering what a waste renting is. :y
Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
I know a few who will only rent, my view is why pay some else’s mortgage?
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Excuse me . . . . what's a mortgage ? I've forgotten ::)
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She is on PAYE which is even worse. ::)
So am I, but she should be self assessed at her income level - if she isn't, it's going to bite her on the arse in the future (ask me how I know!) ;)
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Excuse me . . . . what's a mortgage ? I've forgotten ::)
Yes but aren't you all 300 years old? Unlike Tunnie who is still 14. :D
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[Devils Advocate]
We both earn decent money and could quite easily buy a house if we wanted to, but we like the fact that our outgoings are never likely to change. [/Devils Advocate]
But that's the issue with renting......the outgoings are always going to change as rent increases in line with (or above) inflation.
Where as a Mortgage will only fluctuate in line with interest rate changes (and if they were to be big then its pretty much guaranteed this would push the rental prices up in a similar way)
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I bought my flat in London not long after starting with Sky, best thing I've ever done. My mortgage payments, were less than equivalent rent by a considerable amount.
I now have 4 bed detached place in Surrey, less than 18 years to go, sub £1k payments and it currently represents ~35% of the value of the house.
If I don't extend the term to move for next house, which is possible on some options out there, I'll be mortgage free before I'm 52. 8)
If its a smugness competition, I might win ;)
Excuse me . . . . what's a mortgage ? I've forgotten ::)
Yes but aren't you all 300 years old? Unlike Tunnie who is still 14. :D
:D :D :D :D
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[Devils Advocate]
We both earn decent money and could quite easily buy a house if we wanted to, but we like the fact that our outgoings are never likely to change. [/Devils Advocate]
But that's the issue with renting......the outgoings are always going to change as rent increases in line with (or above) inflation.
Where as a Mortgage will only fluctuate in line with interest rate changes (and if they were to be big then its pretty much guaranteed this would push the rental prices up in a similar way)
Plus at retirement, you still need to fund rent, which would be a large proportion of income. Fine now earning good bucks, but on pension I want to only buy things I need.
If I look at my mortgage payments over past 5 years, add them up. I'm still in profit by what the house has gone up in, by about 6 figures. :o
I could now downsize and be mortgage free, but MrsT would not be keen on that. ::) ;D
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Plus at retirement, you still need to fund rent, which would be a large proportion of income. Fine now earning good bucks, but on pension I want to only buy things I need.
That's not my plan for retirement.. my plan for retirement is to be in a position to buy the things I want, not just the things I need! Otherwise, you can ship me off to Dignitas as that's no way to live ;D
I could now downsize and be mortgage free, but MrsT would not be keen on that. ::) ;D
Who wears the trousers here, you or .. ok, back in the real world, best keep working then! ;D But I was actually thinking about this yesterday after a really stressful day at the office* - if I sell the rental next year then, after capital gains etc I think I can reduce our mortgage here to about ~£150k which, when I think about it, is "only" £10k p/a to pay it off in 15 years.
Suddenly, retirement at 55 seemed like it might actually be within reach.
I mean, assuming dealing with the Outsourcing Continent doesn't drive me into an early grave before then.
*home office which, let me tell you, can be very lonely and isolating some days.
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[Devils Advocate]
We both earn decent money and could quite easily buy a house if we wanted to, but we like the fact that our outgoings are never likely to change. [/Devils Advocate]
But that's the issue with renting......the outgoings are always going to change as rent increases in line with (or above) inflation.
Where as a Mortgage will only fluctuate in line with interest rate changes (and if they were to be big then its pretty much guaranteed this would push the rental prices up in a similar way)
Mark is correct.
I rented from age 18 to 24.
The initial rent was £69 PCM. By the time I left the rent had increased to £119 PCM......some 74%. ::) ::)
It was made worse by a 'Rigsby type' landlord who refused to take any responsibility for any repairs or defects. Utter shithead.
It's not written in tablets of stone but rents are generally far more inflationary over a 25 year year period than interest rates. :y
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You also have to consider that private landlords have been targeted via the taxman whenever the government has wanted to raise some cash recently. That's only going to come out of the pockets of their tenants.
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You also have to consider that private landlords have been targeted via the taxman whenever the government has wanted to raise some cash recently. That's only going to come out of the pockets of their tenants.
Not sure that's really true - or at least not yet. Proper "professional" landlords will be "Ltd" companies, and most of the tax changes don't really affect them.
The people that will get hammered are the so called accidental landlords who only own one or two properties, and don't keep a close eye on the effects of the Budget tax changes. That group of people will be on Self Assessment, and tax changes don't hit you in the pocket until 18 months after the start of the tax year - in other words about now (for the 2017-18 year). When the tax bill lands on the mat it's too late to charge the tenant for 18 months of extra tax, and you may also have to wait another 6-12 months to increase the rent depending on the tenants contract state.
And if the tax owing is large (> £2K IIRC) you can end up on "Payment on Account", which means you have to pay this years (predicted) tax owing up front as well. So if you owe (say) £5K for 2017-18 and they predict you'll owe the same for 2018-19, HMRC are going to want £7.5K now, and another £2.5K in Feb. If the tenant has just signed a new AST for 6 months from the start of Sept 2018, then you can't put the rent up till the end of Feb 2019.
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[Devils Advocate]
We both earn decent money and could quite easily buy a house if we wanted to, but we like the fact that our outgoings are never likely to change. [/Devils Advocate]
But that's the issue with renting......the outgoings are always going to change as rent increases in line with (or above) inflation.
Where as a Mortgage will only fluctuate in line with interest rate changes (and if they were to be big then its pretty much guaranteed this would push the rental prices up in a similar way)
Mark is correct.
I rented from age 18 to 24.
The initial rent was £69 PCM. By the time I left the rent had increased to £119 PCM......some 74%. ::) ::)
It was made worse by a 'Rigsby type' landlord who refused to take any responsibility for any repairs or defects. Utter shithead.
It's not written in tablets of stone but rents are generally far more inflationary over a 25 year year period than interest rates. :y
I could rent a house locally, but to do that, it would cost me twice as much as my mortgage. :)
..and that's like for like size.
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
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I could now downsize and be mortgage free, but MrsT would not be keen on that. ::) ;D
Send her out to work, and you be house husband, then see what she says ;)
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
Maybe :P :D :P
But you do have dual incomes, MrsT is full time mummy. So again all in round-abouts.
Still agreed that buying is the way though and renting is utterly pointless.
Suspect a fair few of my team are planning to buy, once Sky is bought out. :)
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
. . . . . or a "new" Omega ???
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To Quote my Father.
You are either renting bricks and mortar
or
renting money
whatever circumstances suit at the time.
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To Quote my Father.
You are either renting bricks and mortar
or
renting money
whatever circumstances suit at the time.
Proverbs 22:7 says it all...
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No. 14 is quite apt. :-X
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
Agree, paying off the mortgage is madness. If someone (the bank) is prepared to lend you money at 1.4% APR, then you take all you can get and invest it in something that averages 5% + CPI per year.
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
For clarity, I said to pay off the mortgage and take the amount (that is no longer needed for the now paid off mortgage) and invest it.
Anyone considering borrowing against equity to invest is asking to lose everything next time the housing market tanks.
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
Agree, paying off the mortgage is madness. If someone (the bank) is prepared to lend you money at 1.4% APR, then you take all you can get and invest it in something that averages 5% + CPI per year.
If your house was paid off completely, would you borrow against it to invest it?
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
For clarity, I said to pay off the mortgage and take the amount (that is no longer needed for the now paid off mortgage) and invest it.
Anyone considering borrowing against equity to invest is asking to lose everything next time the housing market tanks.
Why? If the housing market tanks, but all the money borrowed against the house is invested in other assets, then those assets (providing they are well diversified) won't tank - or at least they won't tank by anything like the same amount.
Providing you keep paying the mortgage interest off each month, then your home is safe for the mortgage term - typically 25 years. Over any 25 year period you care to mention, a diversified investment portfolio has always averaged at least CPI+5%. You are asking for trouble if you borrow against a house to buy another (BTL) house though - that's single sector investing and is considered suicidealy risky investing by most.
If mortgage interest rates look like they are going to exceed investment returns, then you cash in the investments and pay off the mortgage. That is one reason not to use pensions as the (only) investment mechanism - you can't get at the money till you're 55. However, you can put £20K p/a in SSISA's and those investments would be realisable within a few days if so required.
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Again, if your house was paid off completely, would you borrow against it to invest it?
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Agree, paying off the mortgage is madness. If someone (the bank) is prepared to lend you money at 1.4% APR, then you take all you can get and invest it in something that averages 5% + CPI per year.
If your house was paid off completely, would you borrow against it to invest it?
Yes. It's the same thing. I wouldn't have paid off the mortgage in the first place though. No point. Pay the interest each month so the debt remains the same, invest the 'repayment' part of the mortgage yourself and after 25 years your investments will have grown by (say) 5% +CPI, but your debt will still be the same.
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Agreed it is numerically the same thing, but you still have the debt and you haven't factored for risk.
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Agreed it is numerically the same thing, but you still have the debt and you haven't factored for risk.
The risk is that your investments don't cover the debt after 25 years. For that to be true you would have to achieve negative growth (real losses) on your investments over a 25 year period. To achieve that you'd have to be spectacularly incompetent, or the world would be ending and you should've invested in baked beans and shotgun shells.
Yes you still have the debt. But if you borrow (say) £100K today on a salary of £25K, and wage inflation averages 3% p/a, then in 25 years time you've still got to repay £100K, but your salary will be £52K. Or put another way, your debt is now only about £50K in real terms.
An interest only mortgage over 25 years on £100K @ 1.4% costs £136K over the term, or £120 p/m + £100K at the end. A repayment mortgage on £100K costs £118K, or £393 p/m. source : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/mortgage-rate-calculator
If you invest the difference (£393-£120 = £273 p/m) over a 25 year period, then 5% pa growth returns £162K so you're £62K up. 5% + 2%CPI returns £221K so you're £121K up. Or you could just give £273 p/m extra back to the bank.
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Blimey, a lot of convoluted thinking here. It can be simple. I've never overthought things, just gone with my gut, and kept things simple, and long term. However . . . my rules
Rule No 1:
Buy property whenever possible and as soon as possble, even if it's a shithole. Too many people have "lifestyle" aspirations that are simply too expensive. And by buying you are gaining equity.
Rule No 2:
Take a long term view. Don't expect to double your money in two years. You won't
Rule No 3:
If you buy in an expensive area, stay there. If you move out you will never be able to afford to move back
Rule No 4:
Have a very long term aim. I lived in London for 40 years. I never expected to retire there and didn't. I cashed in and moved to a much cheaper and more pleasant area.
Rule No 5:
Do not over analyse and overthink. Just do it.
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If the money were in a decent pension, though, its growth would outstrip the 1.4% by a country mile and get there tax free, so in reality the opposite is best.
Hell, @1.4%, even inflation is greater than the interest! A mate of mine is the same, he has 3 x BTL flats on (then) 95% interest only mortgages that were BoE base +0.75% or something daft, paying them off or changing deal in his case would be madness.
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Agreed it is numerically the same thing, but you still have the debt and you haven't factored for risk.
The risk is that your investments don't cover the debt after 25 years. For that to be true you would have to achieve negative growth (real losses) on your investments over a 25 year period. To achieve that you'd have to be spectacularly incompetent, or the world would be ending and you should've invested in baked beans and shotgun shells.
Yes you still have the debt. But if you borrow (say) £100K today on a salary of £25K, and wage inflation averages 3% p/a, then in 25 years time you've still got to repay £100K, but your salary will be £52K. Or put another way, your debt is now only about £50K in real terms.
An interest only mortgage over 25 years on £100K @ 1.4% costs £136K over the term, or £120 p/m + £100K at the end. A repayment mortgage on £100K costs £118K, or £393 p/m. source : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/mortgage-rate-calculator
If you invest the difference (£393-£120 = £273 p/m) over a 25 year period, then 5% pa growth returns £162K so you're £62K up. 5% + 2%CPI returns £221K so you're £121K up. Or you could just give £273 p/m extra back to the bank.
However, if you focus on paying the mortgage off before investing, it would be done in say 7 years. If you then invested your £393 for the remaining 18 years (of the 25 year period) you would have 18 years growth in 100% equity in the property AND £154k# in growth on the £393 pm invested.
# based on £393pm for 18 years at 5% and inflation increase of 2%.
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Done a water leakage job at a "Townhouse" (3 floors) in Enfield yesterday . . .nothing special , in fact pretty run down ???
Once inside found it was split into 9 single rooms all induvidually let by the landlord at £200 a WEEK each . . . That equates £7200 per month :o :o :o or £ 86 Grand a year
Some property owners are making a LOT of money :o :o :o :o :o
I wonder about the immigration status of the tenants ::) I'll guess that the house was Edmonton way
And the landlord, but he isn't paying tax, and probably find it's an illegal conversion.
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Agreed it is numerically the same thing, but you still have the debt and you haven't factored for risk.
The risk is that your investments don't cover the debt after 25 years. For that to be true you would have to achieve negative growth (real losses) on your investments over a 25 year period. To achieve that you'd have to be spectacularly incompetent, or the world would be ending and you should've invested in baked beans and shotgun shells.
Yes you still have the debt. But if you borrow (say) £100K today on a salary of £25K, and wage inflation averages 3% p/a, then in 25 years time you've still got to repay £100K, but your salary will be £52K. Or put another way, your debt is now only about £50K in real terms.
An interest only mortgage over 25 years on £100K @ 1.4% costs £136K over the term, or £120 p/m + £100K at the end. A repayment mortgage on £100K costs £118K, or £393 p/m. source : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/mortgage-rate-calculator
If you invest the difference (£393-£120 = £273 p/m) over a 25 year period, then 5% pa growth returns £162K so you're £62K up. 5% + 2%CPI returns £221K so you're £121K up. Or you could just give £273 p/m extra back to the bank.
However, if you focus on paying the mortgage off before investing, it would be done in say 7 years. If you then invested your £393 for the remaining 18 years (of the 25 year period) you would have 18 years growth in 100% equity in the property AND £154k# in growth on the £393 pm invested.
# based on £393pm for 18 years at 5% and inflation increase of 2%.
Huhh?? How are you going to pay off the mortgage in 7 years? That needs £1251 p/m @ 1.4% APR to clear £100K. In which case you could have invested (£1251-£120 = £1131 p/m) over a 7 year period and if the return were 5%+2%CPI you would end up with £122K, so be £22K up.
There is no combination where borrowing money at X% and putting it into investments returning Y% doesn't leave you better off, providing Y > X. You are using other peoples money to make you more money.
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Huhh?? How are you going to pay off the mortgage in 7 years? That needs £1251 p/m @ 1.4% APR to clear £100K. In which case you could have invested (£1251-£120 = £1131 p/m) over a 7 year period and if the return were 5%+2%CPI you would end up with £122K, so be £22K up.
Focused intent... It has to be a very deliberate lifestyle choice or it simply isn't achievable. No car payments, no credit cards, no extravagance.
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Huhh?? How are you going to pay off the mortgage in 7 years? That needs £1251 p/m @ 1.4% APR to clear £100K. In which case you could have invested (£1251-£120 = £1131 p/m) over a 7 year period and if the return were 5%+2%CPI you would end up with £122K, so be £22K up.
Focused intent... It has to be a very deliberate lifestyle choice or it simply isn't achievable. No car payments, no credit cards, no extravagance.
So use the same focussed intent and invest the money at 5%+2%CPI, rather than pay off the cheap loan at 1.4% and you'll be £22K better off in 7 years.
Or if you really must pay off the mortgage, investing the same £1131 p/m @ 5%+2%CPI for about 6 years will build the required £100K to pay off the mortgage - so about a year earlier than your 7 years.
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Potayto, Potarto...
You'll struggle to get much below 2% on anything more than a 2 year tracker, And investing that short term is risking a loss.
And buying a habitable property for less than £100k notwithstanding...
An interesting debate though :y
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
As its costing me zero, and its pissing off Barclays, keeping it going is one of those, errr whats the wankword, win-win scenarios... ;)
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
As its costing me zero, and its pissing off Barclays, keeping it going is one of those, errr whats the wankword, win-win scenarios... ;)
How does that work, exactly?
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Maybe :P :D :P
But you do have dual incomes, MrsT is full time mummy. So again all in round-abouts.
Thats a lifestyle choice ;)
But my first house was bought be me alone, interest only (only think remotely available) and I earned sod all.
Everything in the house was cast-offs from friends and family, or skip diving. And cars? I had a pushbike ;)
The millennials always think they have it harder. They don't. Just less willing to make sacrifices.
But anyway, I'm still ahead on smugness front, (effectively) mortgage free at 43, with no help from anyone...
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Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
As its costing me zero, and its pissing off Barclays, keeping it going is one of those, errr whats the wankword, win-win scenarios... ;)
How does that work, exactly?
Offset mortgage. I owe £<single figures>k, and keep exactly this amount, plus £5, in a linked offset account. So no interest to pay.
(add the extra £5, due to some of their accounting scams and roundups, just to ensure I'm never paying interest.
-
Also @ TB you bought considerably earlier than I did, I only bought when I was 27. :)
But you still lost in the Smugness battle ;D
Bought my first at 21, when interest rates were well into double figures. Its all swings and roundabouts.
In reality, mine was paid off years ago, I only keep it running because it pisses Barclays off - I have a £125k guaranteed loan at about 1.4% in I want it, that under new rules, they have to show on their books :D
I appreciate the sentiment, my opinion of Lloyd's is broadly similar, but to keep a mortgage hanging around is madness.
Get it paid off and get your mortgage payment invested in something like, I don't know, retirement ::)
As its costing me zero, and its pissing off Barclays, keeping it going is one of those, errr whats the wankword, win-win scenarios... ;)
How does that work, exactly?
Offset mortgage. I owe £<single figures>k, and keep exactly this amount, plus £5, in a linked offset account. So no interest to pay.
(add the extra £5, due to some of their accounting scams and roundups, just to ensure I'm never paying interest.
But you're losing the interest on your savings, so no loss or gain.
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If you're coming towards the end of your mortgage, and you surely are, then the monthly interest can't be that much anyway? Ours is about £9 a day.
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Maybe :P :D :P
But you do have dual incomes, MrsT is full time mummy. So again all in round-abouts.
Thats a lifestyle choice ;)
But my first house was bought be me alone, interest only (only think remotely available) and I earned sod all.
Everything in the house was cast-offs from friends and family, or skip diving. And cars? I had a pushbike ;)
The millennials always think they have it harder. They don't. Just less willing to make sacrifices.
But anyway, I'm still ahead on smugness front, (effectively) mortgage free at 43, with no help from anyone...
A major issue. Excessively high lifestyle expectation. Not prepared to start at the bottom.
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Maybe :P :D :P
But you do have dual incomes, MrsT is full time mummy. So again all in round-abouts.
Thats a lifestyle choice ;)
But my first house was bought be me alone, interest only (only think remotely available) and I earned sod all.
Everything in the house was cast-offs from friends and family, or skip diving. And cars? I had a pushbike ;)
The millennials always think they have it harder. They don't. Just less willing to make sacrifices.
But anyway, I'm still ahead on smugness front, (effectively) mortgage free at 43, with no help from anyone...
A major issue. Excessively high lifestyle expectation. Not prepared to start at the bottom.
Those that do, really do... Entirely debt free, including the house, before 30.
Those that don't, smoke weed, moan and whine and then have the gall to vote left. Shoot the lot. Or tax weed :D
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Maybe :P :D :P
But you do have dual incomes, MrsT is full time mummy. So again all in round-abouts.
Thats a lifestyle choice ;)
But my first house was bought be me alone, interest only (only think remotely available) and I earned sod all.
Everything in the house was cast-offs from friends and family, or skip diving. And cars? I had a pushbike ;)
The millennials always think they have it harder. They don't. Just less willing to make sacrifices.
But anyway, I'm still ahead on smugness front, (effectively) mortgage free at 43, with no help from anyone...
Damn you. :P ;D ;D
If I over pay though, should see it reduced to late 40's.
Have to say, I buck the trend generally in my team, most others just rent or do room shares.
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It's very valid about sacrifices though, lady in marketing I know who just moved into rented 1 bed flat we got talking about buying. She said it would take her another 4-5 years to save, for the deposit, she is similar age to me.
I mentioned I lived at home for a couple of years to save, but even though her parents live close enough, sub 1hr30 to the office for a commute. She "does not do mornings" and "must" live within 30 mins of the office.
So if she got up a little earlier, maybe went for drinks after work less like I did, you could save up far, far quicker.
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If you're coming towards the end of your mortgage, and you surely are, then the monthly interest can't be that much anyway? Ours is about £9 a day.
I think mine has been about £0.00 a year for several years ;D
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Have to say, I buck the trend generally in my team, most others just rent or do room shares.
Look at the area you work - IT and Media, a particularly "special" combo, both individually are, by its nature, live for today and sod tomorrow. So (younger) people who work in it are generally of a certain mentality. If you have any coffin dodgers in the team, which I know would be untrendy, you'll likely find they are sorted, not due to age/easier time etc, but a different mentality.
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She "does not do mornings" and "must" live within 30 mins of the office.
A few years ago, the average commute was 1hr each way (and I was the wrong side of that :(), I believe it is now 1hr30 (and last year, when I worked at Harry Potter Land, I was beyond that too :().
Since 1996, I've always come off bad on commuting ;D, a real shock from spending my entire career up to that point being 5mins from work ;D.
I'm now lucky, as I can now start/finish earlier, halving my journey time :y
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In Barnsley, you can get a very decent house for £150000. If you have a 10% deposit, i.e. £15000, your mortgage repayment at, say, 3%, would be around £640 a month. Much better than renting.
The couple that rent out the BTL that we own, pay £675 a month for a 3 bed ex-council house in a nice part of Crosby -about 2 miles from the beach and 2 miles from the M57/M58 close to good schools both primary and secondary.
It's worth about £150K. Why don't they buy?
a) They haven't been together long.
b) He has a child (a teenager) with his ex-wife and pays maintenance.
c) They haven't yet saved a deposit
The interesting thing about your post is that we are paying exactly £640 a month - £180 interest and the rest off the debt, which should pay off on my 64th Birthday (plus or minus a year). This means that for the next 13 years we are actually have a negative cash flow, because tax and insurance take it over £675 a month.
Looking at the house next door but one as a second BTL tomorrow. Again an Ex-Council 3 bed.
My Current spreadsheet says that the Investment we are going to make should result in a 10% return on OUR investment. It should pay off in 17 years, but what about the risks ? Interest rate will be fixed for 5 years and we don't use a letting agent, but do have professional vetting. Rents might go down, because brexit, but none of the people who inquired about the first house were anything other than UK citizens, and we could have rented it out to 10 people. I think the rent is a little low, but hey...
The idea is that if and when we pay off both loans then at current rents that's worth £1400 a month.
Which as pensioners, will be a bonus.
Interestingly my daughter and her boyfriend have just applied to rent a flat next to the Anglican Cathedral (technically Toxteth...as in Toxic DEATH) £650 a month, because she has the deposit for a property, he doesn't, and she doesn't know where she will be working in 10 months time (Pre-reg pharmacist, could end up anywhere)
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She "does not do mornings" and "must" live within 30 mins of the office.
A few years ago, the average commute was 1hr each way (and I was the wrong side of that :(), I believe it is now 1hr30 (and last year, when I worked at Harry Potter Land, I was beyond that too :().
Since 1996, I've always come off bad on commuting ;D, a real shock from spending my entire career up to that point being 5mins from work ;D.
I'm now lucky, as I can now start/finish earlier, halving my journey time :y
My current commute is 95 miles. I could do it in the morning in 1:45 but in the evening anything from 2 to 3 hours in the evening. Guess what.....I'm in 'digs' during the week. There are 70 people from Liverpool, traveling to wolverhampton in the same place. Most of them came with the machines, when they closed the factory 10 years ago. I'm just an Itinerant Freelancer so when this gig starts to piss me off I'll find something else. If there was anything in the Northwest paying anything like what I can get in the midlands, I'd chase it. But so far in 9 years - nothing.
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Looking at the house next door but one as a second BTL tomorrow. Again an Ex-Council 3 bed.
So 6% SDLT.
The idea is that if and when we pay off both loans then at current rents that's worth £1400 a month.
Less tax at 20/40% = £1120/£840 p/m
Which as pensioners, will be a bonus.
And when you come to sell, CGT at (currently) 28% on most of the increase in value.
I admire your commitment to paying tax.
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I admire your commitment to paying tax.
Unless you're extremely rich or extremely bent, I don't think tax can be avoided ;D
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[edit but I can't edit] Not implying that you personally are rich or bent, LCOG - reading that back it comes across rather harsh. I mean, you might be rich, for all I know, but I don't assume the latter ;)
I was thinking about my last visit to a financial advisor, though, whose advice was (slight paraphrasing): "You're a PAYE employee, so you're screwed. Pay up, serf."
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[edit but I can't edit] Not implying that you personally are rich or bent, LCOG - reading that back it comes across rather harsh. I mean, you might be rich, for all I know, but I don't assume the latter ;)
I was thinking about my last visit to a financial advisor, though, whose advice was (slight paraphrasing): "You're a PAYE employee, so you're screwed. Pay up, serf."
My point was that BTL has a 6% buy in tax, and a 28% sell up tax on any gain. If the house/flat is bought for (say) £150K, then you'll have to pay £9K SDLT now. In 10 years time you sell up for (say) 250K (which is 5.25% HPI) then the CGT bill could be £28K. So from your initial £159K you've made £63K profit, and paid £37K in tax. That's an effective return of 3.5% APR, and does not include any allowance for inflation either. If CPI is 2%, then the effective rate of return is 1.5% + 2%CPI.
Then there is the income from the BTL, which is taxed at your marginal rate. If you've got a normal job, or pension income, then the BTL income could be taxed at 40%. POD has already said he's at best breaking even on the rent, and possibly losing money. Most would aim for between 5% and 10% yield, so on a £150K house the income 'profit' should be at least £7K.
So he's invested in an asset where his only gain comes from HPI, yet the asset has been taxed on the way in, and any HPI is taxed on the way out. You can't sell parts of the asset over several years to spread the CGT liability over multiple years and hence use up your £11.7K CGT allowance efficiently.
Alternatively, buy £159K's worth of balanced assets, and Bed & ISA £20K p/a for 10 years. No tax on the way in, no tax on the way out, and if you're careful no tax on the income whilst you bed and ISA. If the investments return the long term average of 5% + 2%CPI then £159K grows to £312K in 10 years - a tax free profit of £153K. And no aggro from tenants, management agencies, councils, etc.
Your problem is too much income, which I agree is a difficult one to mitigate. POD appears to be either buying using savings (already taxed money), or perhaps a BTL Mortgage.
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I currently have something of a mortgage dilemma to ponder.
On the 30th September my 5 year fixed deal of 3.75% comes to an end. This means if I do nothing my mortgage will return to the SVR of 4.84%. :-\
The best my lender will offer me is 2.6% for 2years.
Here's the thing. My mortgage is currently around £820 PCM and finishes in May 2026. However, I've had a rummage down the back of the sofa and I'm fortunate to have enough spare cash to pay this particular mortgage off completely........freeing up £820 extra spending money each month in the process.
My question is would this be a good use of my money?
I have a share portfolio which is hit and miss. Money in the bank and building society which earn SFA. Savings in the Wellesley went 'tits up' and I lost a significant portion of my capital.
I have several other high risk investments which are looking decidedly shaky. :-\
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May 2026 is eight years away. Your covered for the first two years at 2.6%, so if you can find an investment that pays more than this (after any tax deductions) then you should invest you money and make a profit. That leaves six years on your mortgage and, I should imagine, you'll be getting to the point where most of your payments will be going towards the capital, as the interest part should be well down by then. Of course, no one knows what's going to happen again after that dreaded brexit thingy.
I, personally, would pay it off and rest easy. But, then again, I have no idea about the rest of your finances. Put it this way...I wish I could afford to pay off my mortgage, which started two years ago as a 15 year term. I will probably have it paid in 11-12 years, so about 9 to go. The £850 a month we pay would, as you say, come in very handy.
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Don't know about your particular deal but, if we pay more than 10% of the remaining balance in overpayments in any year (during the fixed rate period), we incur a charge.
Ours is fixed at 3.96% until 2021 btw.
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May 2026 is eight years away. Your covered for the first two years at 2.6%, so if you can find an investment that pays more than this (after any tax deductions) then you should invest you money and make a profit. That leaves six years on your mortgage and, I should imagine, you'll be getting to the point where most of your payments will be going towards the capital, as the interest part should be well down by then. Of course, no one knows what's going to happen again after that dreaded brexit thingy.
I, personally, would pay it off and rest easy. But, then again, I have no idea about the rest of your finances. Put it this way...I wish I could afford to pay off my mortgage, which started two years ago as a 15 year term. I will probably have it paid in 11-12 years, so about 9 to go. The £850 a month we pay would, as you say, come in very handy.
I've been overpaying the bastard by 10% each year for quite some time now, which helps.
You're correct about the capital to interest ratio. It's starting to snowball as the years pass. Interest is roughly abut £200 PCM and dropping.
If I pay it there is an additional administration fee of £195. :-X
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Don't know about your particular deal but, if we pay more than 10% of the remaining balance in overpayments in any year (during the fixed rate period), we incur a charge.
Ours is fixed at 3.96% until 2021 btw.
This would have been the case should I pay off the mortgage before the end of the fixed rate period. From the 30th September this no longer applies. :y
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May 2026 is eight years away. Your covered for the first two years at 2.6%, so if you can find an investment that pays more than this (after any tax deductions) then you should invest you money and make a profit. That leaves six years on your mortgage and, I should imagine, you'll be getting to the point where most of your payments will be going towards the capital, as the interest part should be well down by then. Of course, no one knows what's going to happen again after that dreaded brexit thingy.
I, personally, would pay it off and rest easy. But, then again, I have no idea about the rest of your finances. Put it this way...I wish I could afford to pay off my mortgage, which started two years ago as a 15 year term. I will probably have it paid in 11-12 years, so about 9 to go. The £850 a month we pay would, as you say, come in very handy.
Eleven or twelve years is less than half the normal duration of an average 25 year mortgage. :y
.......and as TB has said thirty or even forty year mortgages are not uncommon now. :o :o :o
This particular mortgage was taken our in 2004 for 22 years..........which could be cut to 14 years if I decide to pay it off.
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I would throw every spare penny at our mortgage, but my circumstances are very different to most. I am at the age where I worry about keeling over and I cannot risk leaving wifey without a bit of a cushion. My life insurance expired when I was 60 and, to get anything worthwhile as a payout, the premiums would be prohibitive. So......soldier on.
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I currently have something of a mortgage dilemma to ponder.
On the 30th September my 5 year fixed deal of 3.75% comes to an end. This means if I do nothing my mortgage will return to the SVR of 4.84%. :-\
The best my lender will offer me is 2.6% for 2years.
Here's the thing. My mortgage is currently around £820 PCM and finishes in May 2026. However, I've had a rummage down the back of the sofa and I'm fortunate to have enough spare cash to pay this particular mortgage off completely........freeing up £820 extra spending money each month in the process.
My question is would this be a good use of my money?
I have a share portfolio which is hit and miss. Money in the bank and building society which earn SFA. Savings in the Wellesley went 'tits up' and I lost a significant portion of my capital.
I have several other high risk investments which are looking decidedly shaky. :-\
Do they do a fixed rate for 5 years? I appreciate it won't be 2.6%, but anything less than your current rate is a bonus...
Alternatively, run with the lowest fix rate and aim to get it paid off when the deal ends.
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I would throw every spare penny at our mortgage, but my circumstances are very different to most. I am at the age where I worry about keeling over and I cannot risk leaving wifey without a bit of a cushion. My life insurance expired when I was 60 and, to get anything worthwhile as a payout, the premiums would be prohibitive. So......soldier on.
Get wifey to take out £250,000 insurance on your life then devise a plan between you where she slowly poisons you until you are 'no more'
Google undetectable poisons. :y
At least you'll know she will be financially provided for after 'you've gone'. Always nice to know. :)
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Google undetectable poisons. :y
Via an anonymous VPN, using Incognito mode, on someone elses PC. Y'know, just in case.
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Google undetectable poisons. :y
Via an anonymous VPN, using Incognito mode, on someone elses PC. Y'know, just in case.
I wonder if Mrs STMO has already put this plan into action without telling the old boy. ::)
Has he been under the weather lately? :D
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That was my whole point. For her to get £250,000 worth of cover, she'd probably have to pay about ten grand a month. ;D
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That was my whole point. For her to get £250,000 worth of cover, she'd probably have to pay about ten grand a month. ;D
Then make sure the poison is 'quick acting' :)
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That was my whole point. For her to get £250,000 worth of cover, she'd probably have to pay about ten grand a month. ;D
Then make sure the poison is 'quick acting' :)
I'll put it to her when she gets home. To be honest, I could do with a rest.
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So could we. ;D
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That was my whole point. For her to get £250,000 worth of cover, she'd probably have to pay about ten grand a month. ;D
Then make sure the poison is 'quick acting' :)
I'll put it to her when she gets home. To be honest, I could do with a rest.
Arsenic was a favourite during the Victorian period but can be detected quite easily. I would suggest walking in front of a bus but if they believe suicide is involved the insurance company won't pay out. :)
No.....you and wifey will need to make it look like an accident. :)
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So could we. ;D
Perhaps he'll pay you to run him over. A win win situation. :y
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Salisbury might seem a long way to go from Barnsley for a lunch date with your wife, but... :-X
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Perhaps those nice Russian chaps who have a penchant for visiting English towns would like to visit Barnsley. :y
They could take in a game at Barnsley FC, see the church, visit Wentworth Castle and maybe even pass by Uncle STEMO's house! :D
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Perhaps those nice Russian chaps who have a penchant for visiting English towns would like to visit Barnsley. :y
They could take in a game at Barnsley FC, see the church, visit Wentworth Castle and maybe even pass by Uncle STEMO's house! :D
Hmmmmm.......no doorknob. They'd have to post it through the letterbox. ;D
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Perhaps those nice Russian chaps who have a penchant for visiting English towns would like to visit Barnsley. :y
They could take in a game at Barnsley FC, see the church, visit Wentworth Castle and maybe even pass by Uncle STEMO's house! :D
Hmmmmm.......no doorknob. They'd have to post it through the letterbox. ;D
Well if you get a little bottle of aftershave through the letterbox from an 'unknown admirer' you know what to do! :)
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Perhaps those nice Russian chaps who have a penchant for visiting English towns would like to visit Barnsley. :y
They could take in a game at Barnsley FC, see the church, visit Wentworth Castle and maybe even pass by Uncle STEMO's house! :D
Hmmmmm.......no doorknob. They'd have to post it through the letterbox. ;D
Well if you get a little bottle of aftershave through the letterbox from an 'unknown admirer' you know what to do! :)
How high is the spire at Barnsley? Not 123m, I bet. Can't see them being very interested. :-\
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Be very careful if Mrs STEMO complains of having dry eyes and buys an over the counter bottle of eye drops. :-X It only takes a few drops added to your food and it's bye bye STEMO. A US wifey has just been charged with doing this and killing her husband. :o The bad news is it obviously fails the not detectable poison test. :-[
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Be very careful if Mrs STEMO complains of having dry eyes and buys an over the counter bottle of eye drops. :-X It only takes a few drops added to your food and it's bye bye STEMO. A US wifey has just been charged with doing this and killing her husband. :o The bad news is it obviously fails the not detectable poison test. :-[
I think she'll do away with him sooner rather than later. It'll be a kindness not to let him linger on. :)
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Be very careful if Mrs STEMO complains of having dry eyes and buys an over the counter bottle of eye drops. :-X It only takes a few drops added to your food and it's bye bye STEMO. A US wifey has just been charged with doing this and killing her husband. :o The bad news is it obviously fails the not detectable poison test. :-[
Yep. That's no good. What she needs is a sudden, tragic, accidental camping equipment failure in his vicinity to send him into orbit and . Now, ... <rubs chin> :-X
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Be very careful if Mrs STEMO complains of having dry eyes and buys an over the counter bottle of eye drops. :-X It only takes a few drops added to your food and it's bye bye STEMO. A US wifey has just been charged with doing this and killing her husband. :o The bad news is it obviously fails the not detectable poison test. :-[
Yep. That's no good. What she needs is a sudden, tragic, accidental camping equipment failure in his vicinity to send him into orbit and . Now, ... <rubs chin> :-X
Glider flying in Syria in IAF markings. ::) ::) ::)
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Be very careful if Mrs STEMO complains of having dry eyes and buys an over the counter bottle of eye drops. :-X It only takes a few drops added to your food and it's bye bye STEMO. A US wifey has just been charged with doing this and killing her husband. :o The bad news is it obviously fails the not detectable poison test. :-[
Yep. That's no good. What she needs is a sudden, tragic, accidental camping equipment failure in his vicinity to send him into orbit and . Now, ... <rubs chin> :-X
Some bastard mention that at work today. They are getting years or entertainment out of my personal tradegies
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I over heard a very odd chap asking for eye drops at the pharmacy in ADSA this evening, lady asked well what type do you want? he just raised his voice to EYE DROPS, later saw him at the till with a right crank of a wife so Ii expect her cocoa might taste a bit bitter tonight ;D