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Author Topic: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START  (Read 1623 times)

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windhoek_boy

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OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« on: 08 January 2017, 18:35:52 »

Hi guys. I done. Really. I'm even trying to see if it is still worth the trouble of trying to revive Omega 2.2 16v (2002 Model)

We moved this engine from my other identical Omega and put it and engine started without a miss on first start, 5 months ago and it been running well.

Issue is car had a mechanical fault after not getting enough oil because we nodifed an oil pump which was not original. In the end Oil pump was replaced and crankshaft was redone and also 1 conrod. Mechanic put the whole engine together again best as he knows how (my usual mechanic who also owns a Omega 2.6 v6).

PROBLEM: After all put together car won't start. Stick in a Code Reader and it found coolant temperature sensor not connected. We reconnected it and error was cleared. No other errors found as far as engine is concerned. Reader reported error communicating with gearbox. Which we don't think is really problem why it is not starting. We have tried to trouble shoot and check all relays, injectors, coil, computer box and all. We even have swapped crank sensors, computer boxes, coils since we have spare parts but we cant figure it out. Everything looks normal and works well. But only problem is when you try to start it will crank forever and never start. We are sure it is not getting a Spark on the plugs but the cause of that we can't get to the bottom of it.

We just thinking there is an electrical problem somewhere. maybe wires were pulled and somewhere we cant get to figure out which one.

ANY IDEAS  :'(

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #1 on: 08 January 2017, 20:11:51 »

Did you swap the ecu from the donor car?
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #2 on: 09 January 2017, 10:12:26 »

Did you swap the ecu from the donor car?

Yes we did and made sure all things match. We marked them so we would not get them all mixed up
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #3 on: 09 January 2017, 19:48:50 »

How much fuel in it?

Double check everything and report back ;)
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #4 on: 09 January 2017, 20:16:43 »

How much fuel in it?

Double check everything and report back ;)

OK there is some fuel in the car. But however we will add just to be on the safe side.

The car is priming properly with enough fuel.

But if you wait  a few seconds, after priming, try to crank it, then there is no fuel coming + no spark.

I hope that i explained it properly :)

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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2017, 20:29:59 »

Just a thought...

What is the standard resistance of the crank sensor and the CAM shaft Sensor?

Could it also be the Cam Sensor?

Is there any way of getting the electrical diagram for Omega 2.2 apart from those available for the Pre-Face Lift Omega from Haynes Manual?



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Nick W

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2017, 20:56:53 »

How much fuel in it?

Double check everything and report back ;)

OK there is some fuel in the car. But however we will add just to be on the safe side.

The car is priming properly with enough fuel.

But if you wait  a few seconds, after priming, try to crank it, then there is no fuel coming + no spark.

I hope that i explained it properly :)


That is almost certainly an immobiliser problem. Don't forget that the engine ECU, chip in the key and the reader around the ignition lock are a matched set.
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2017, 21:08:42 »

How much fuel in it?

Double check everything and report back ;)

OK there is some fuel in the car. But however we will add just to be on the safe side.

The car is priming properly with enough fuel.

But if you wait  a few seconds, after priming, try to crank it, then there is no fuel coming + no spark.

I hope that i explained it properly :)


That is almost certainly an immobilizer problem. Don't forget that the engine ECU, chip in the key and the reader around the ignition lock are a matched set.

Most Certainly it is not immobilizer issue. Because - long before we did our engine transfers and discarded one of the Omegas, we labelled Our ECU, Keys and Key Reader to make sure the 2 Sets were not mixed up. Before engine overhaul was done and refusal to start problem, we even tested each set separately on the one running car thus proving we have working spare Set. Besides if you mix them up the spanner will blink on Dashboard.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2017, 21:12:31 by windhoek_boy »
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #8 on: 10 January 2017, 00:22:31 »

For trouble shooting purposes, Haynes 2.0 16V diagrams will be OK.

Was the donor the same model year?
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #9 on: 10 January 2017, 12:56:05 »

For trouble shooting purposes, Haynes 2.0 16V diagrams will be OK.

Was the donor the same model year?

YES. both scraped Omega and the patient are 2.2 16v Auto. identical i think.
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GrahamT

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #10 on: 10 January 2017, 13:04:00 »

If the issue is no spark but you are getting no error codes have you checked the simple things like you are getting a switched live to the coil pack?

I had this issue when I did my first X20XEV conversion into an astra. I forgot the black switched live in the round multi plug and got exactly the same symptoms you describe.

Thanks
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #11 on: 10 January 2017, 14:14:43 »

I know it sounds stupid, but it is in park/neutral and gearbox wiring securely plugged in?
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #12 on: 10 January 2017, 14:27:57 »

I know it sounds stupid, but it is in park/neutral and gearbox wiring securely plugged in?
I *think* (without looking) that kills power to starter, rather than stopping a cranking engine firing.


OP - what code reader are you using, as 2.2 can be fussy.
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #13 on: 10 January 2017, 14:37:17 »

I know it sounds stupid, but it is in park/neutral and gearbox wiring securely plugged in?
I *think* (without looking) that kills power to starter, rather than stopping a cranking engine firing.


OP - what code reader are you using, as 2.2 can be fussy.
It does, the no crank/no fuel is normal behaviour, but if the shift linkage is out of whack it might not behave rationally  :-\
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Marne

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #14 on: 10 January 2017, 20:47:18 »

Hallo guys... I am the mechanic working on the this particular car.
I just re-ran tests  on the car and I believe it is the crank sensor...

Actually I replaced the original sensor with a second hand sensor I had. We will have buy a new sensor and then we will let everyone know the outcome.   :y
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #15 on: 10 January 2017, 20:56:55 »

Hopefully that will see it back on the road :y

It's always tricky trying to diagnose things remotely,  and being 12 hours flying from most of the people here really doesn't help...

A thought has just flashed through my mind... (it's ok, I am sitting down ::))

Was it the ecu coolant sensor that raised the code?

If yes, was the correct plug attached? When changing the loom on my 3.2, I managed to confuse the purge valve plug with the ecu temp sender... plugs are the same and close to each other... but they use different voltages... ecu sensor runs at 5v, not 12v so get it wrong and it fries the ecu temp sensor.

Net result is that car starts perfectly when cold, (it was February here when I did this), but once warm it floods as the ecu thinks that it's -40C and that's it, game over until the battery goes flat.

So couple of things to test...

1. Ecu temp sensor loom voltage... 5v.
2. Check the plugs for any wetness following a start attempt.

What ever you do, don't try to force it to fire with Ezy Start, parafin etc... will do far more harm than good ;)
« Last Edit: 10 January 2017, 21:06:47 by Doctor Gollum »
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Marne

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #16 on: 11 January 2017, 13:46:37 »

Thanx for the tip man... I will double check again.  The thing a out the temp sensor was just because of the plug not clicking tight onto the sensor resulting in the error code...

Perhaps the other thing worth noting is that there code reader mentioned that the injection relay is inactive... Could it be anything else apart from the crank sensor?
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #17 on: 11 January 2017, 14:00:55 »

Either one of the two purple relays next to the ecu...

Swap them and see if the pump still primes...

If it doesn't then you've found your problem ;)
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #18 on: 11 January 2017, 14:39:58 »

Also worth checking / swapping Cam Sensor.

Never had a 2.2, but if its the Double Plug Engine ECU, did you connect the external black Earth wire to the ECU?
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #19 on: 13 January 2017, 15:02:54 »

Hi all. Thanks for the input .much appreciated.  :)

We will try to also swap Cam Sensor you guys suggested.

In the meantime we ordered a new Crankshaft Sensor from nearby South Africa, they have better options there (ordering and availability) than Namibia. We have 2.5 million people here  :) therefore Omega is a rare sight.

GM South Africa wants R2.125.00 (Rands) more or less = 129.00

Dealership is really ridiculous...

Cranksensor might be shipped on Monday overnight to Namibia (Up the road from the South Africa).

We will sure give feedback. 
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #20 on: 13 January 2017, 19:24:14 »

Have you swapped the purple relays yet?
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #21 on: 20 January 2017, 07:26:15 »

Just to give feedback to you all.

NO. JOY.  :(

Got a new crankshaft sensor which was the right fit as it was sourced by part number ( I think it is from Standard). Still car would not start.

Mech thinks it must be a very small issue we just can't figure out because all big things we thought were the cause are working just fine.

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Doctor Gollum

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #22 on: 20 January 2017, 08:16:15 »

Have you swapped the purple relays yet?
...
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #23 on: 21 January 2017, 22:33:41 »

Have you swapped the purple relays yet?
...

Yes we did and there is still nothing at all
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #24 on: 21 January 2017, 23:01:12 »

Have you swapped the purple relays yet?
...

Yes we did and there is still nothing at all
1. Simply swapped over or 2. swapped with ones from donor car?

If 1. then do you still have fuel pressure, if not, only switch out the fuel pump relay.

If 2. and it still primes, then only switch the injector relay.

Repeat until it fires... the relays are identical, but it only takes one to stop the car running as one switches the fuel pump feed, and the other switches the injector feed. The ecu wiring to the injectors is simply to fire them, power comes from the relay :y
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #25 on: 22 January 2017, 14:47:30 »

Have you swapped the purple relays yet?
...

Yes we did and there is still nothing at all
1. Simply swapped over or 2. swapped with ones from donor car?

If 1. then do you still have fuel pressure, if not, only switch out the fuel pump relay.

If 2. and it still primes, then only switch the injector relay.

Repeat until it fires... the relays are identical, but it only takes one to stop the car running as one switches the fuel pump feed, and the other switches the injector feed. The ecu wiring to the injectors is simply to fire them, power comes from the relay :y

Will try that and give feed back
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #26 on: 01 February 2017, 14:14:18 »

Just another update concerning the Omega that wont start

The coil and the injectors and we also just found out throttle body are all not responding. is it normal for throttle body to just be quiet (no action) after cranking once?

...car has no spark still no spark still.

Mechanic insists he has checked all wiring inside engine bay and all electrical wiring is working.

 :(
« Last Edit: 01 February 2017, 14:29:36 by windhoek_boy »
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plym ian

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #27 on: 16 February 2017, 10:10:39 »

Just another update concerning the Omega that wont start

The coil and the injectors and we also just found out throttle body are all not responding. is it normal for throttle body to just be quiet (no action) after cranking once?

...car has no spark still no spark still.

Mechanic insists he has checked all wiring inside engine bay and all electrical wiring is working.

 :(
Have you tried the coil pack?
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windhoek_boy

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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #28 on: 01 May 2017, 17:51:40 »

Hi Everyone.  :) Feedback on this original starting post - OPEL OMEGA 2.2 NOT STARTING

HOW WE SOLVED IT

Cam Sensor &  Crank Sensor connectors were connected vice versa. We switcheed it back correctly and car started without hesistation. The connectors on these 2 sensors on my Omega are exactly the same with 3 pins and same color orange. Could any color coding be helpful? so the whole time they were connected wrongly. ::)

Thank guys for all the input
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #29 on: 13 September 2017, 18:13:49 »

You are not alone.

It reminds me of a time many years ago - it was a friend's Standard Companion.  It needed a new clutch ... which meant you had to take the engine out ... which meant you had to drop the front suspension.  My friend was going away, but needed the car on his return so two of us said we would do it for him and, as the engine was out, we might as well get it re-bored.

We put it all back together and couldn't turn it over.  We knew it would be a bit stiff so eventually we tried towing it round the block.  The clutch was perfect but each time we released it the rear wheels skidded - they just would not turn.  We tried in reverse - same result.  It would go a bit forwards and then a bit backwards but it always locked solid.

After much head scratching we decided there was no option but to take the d*mn thing apart again.

We had put the con rods on the crankshaft back to front and they were doing half a turn and then fouling the crankcase  :(
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Re: OMEGA 2.2 - WON'T START
« Reply #30 on: 13 September 2017, 22:56:28 »

I had a similar experience on a Rover Streetwise. After changing the head gasket it would not idle properly. Only after changing the idle control valve and taking much advice did I discover I had plugged 2 identical and adjacent plugs and sockets improperly. I had assumed 2 neighbouring plugs would be made different to avoid confusion, but they were not.

On the Omega 2.2 cam and crank sensor are well spaced - one on top of the engine, one below, so I am surprised the leads allow confusion.
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