Topic: This could be a challenge. (Read 3865 times)

shyboy · « **on:** 08 July 2017, 07:30:15 »

I've finally bitten the bullet and decided to change the 3.2l cambelt etc. myself, in spite of old age, associated aches and pains, and not having done it before. I bought the excellent CD years ago.
Just ordered a Contitech kit and trying to find a suitable water pump as an alternative to the main dealer quoted price of C.£180.
There are quite a number of low priced alternatives on-line; (£25/£35) and a Bosch version at around £95. Anybody got experience of the quality of these, or a suggestion as to one which would do the job satisfactorily.
Please expect to see follow up posts crying for help.

robson · « **Reply #1 on:** 08 July 2017, 08:53:09 »

I believe that some pumps have plastic blades and that these are the ones to avoid.

Migv6 le Frog Fan · « **Reply #2 on:** 08 July 2017, 09:29:27 »

Does your car need a new pump ?

terry paget · « **Reply #3 on:** 08 July 2017, 09:34:55 »

They say that old men need a hobby that makes them think and use their hands, otherwise they fade away and die. Congratulations in taking on the cam belt change job.

Forum opinion on changing the water pump on V6 engines is changing, 'cos it is not driven by the cam belt, unlike the 4 cylinder engine. If it fails, it will not wreck the engine, just need changing, which will admittedly involves much of the same dismantling.

robson · « **Reply #4 on:** 08 July 2017, 09:47:52 »

Whaler is I believe a good make The one I fitted had the GM insignia ground off so I assume they supply GM.

shyboy · « **Reply #5 on:** 08 July 2017, 10:59:24 »

Thanks for your replies, and the encouragement Terry P.
I don't think the pump is problematic but thought it might be prudent to change it when doing the cambelt, if the cost is sensible, in view of the dismantling necessary if it should fail. As it isn't cambelt driven, failure obviously wouldn't be an out and out catastrophe so I'll probably not bother if it looks in good condition when I examine things more closely.
Robson. I can't find your Whaler pump. Did you mean Whale? and do they do automobile pumps?
Thanks again.

cam.in.head · « **Reply #6 on:** 08 July 2017, 11:06:22 »

As far as i can remember .someone please correct me if im wrong here but can you not change the waterpimp on a v6 without taking anything off the engine at all? Just the bagpipes for acess.i seem to remember the bolts are all easy to get at once its pulley is off ?

robson · « **Reply #7 on:** 08 July 2017, 11:08:37 »

Wahler I thought I might have spelt it wrong I will check and come back to you.

robson · « **Reply #8 on:** 08 July 2017, 11:11:26 »

Yes it is Wahler

shyboy · « **Reply #9 on:** 08 July 2017, 11:45:20 »

Thanks Robson. Their US site doesn't list Opel, Vauxhall or Opel believe it or not. Can you remember how you found your pump?

Shackeng · « **Reply #10 on:** 08 July 2017, 12:01:14 »

Quote from: shyboy on 08 July 2017, 07:30:15

I've finally bitten the bullet and decided to change the 3.2l cambelt etc. myself, in spite of old age, associated aches and pains, and not having done it before. I bought the excellent CD years ago.
Just ordered a Contitech kit and trying to find a suitable water pump as an alternative to the main dealer quoted price of C.£180.
There are quite a number of low priced alternatives on-line; (£25/£35) and a Bosch version at around £95. Anybody got experience of the quality of these, or a suggestion as to one which would do the job satisfactorily.
Please expect to see follow up posts crying for help.

I think you will find that the CD shows twin adjustable tensioners, whereas the later kits only have the one. Still a very useful guide though.

shyboy · « **Reply #11 on:** 08 July 2017, 13:37:16 »

Hopefully I'll be able to allow for that. If not, watch this space!

Bigron · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 July 2017, 13:46:32 »

James did my 2.6 cambelt for me whilst I watched, and he said that if the pump is original (it was) and feels ok, thenleave it, as pattern and even genuine Vx are not as good nowadays.
He lubricated the bearings, span the pump and it sounded great.
I hope the Fates aren't listening when I say that it is still fine!
Go thou and do likewise.....

Ron.

Migv6 le Frog Fan · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 July 2017, 14:17:49 »

10 years ago when VX charged £20 odd quid for a V6 water pump it was thought sensible to bung a new one in while the front of the engine was dismantled.
Now they are silyl money, and possibly not as good quality, the accepted wisdom is "if it isn't broke, don't fix it".

Bigron · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 July 2017, 14:28:50 »

Silly money and low quality, Albs - we are on the same page here.

Ron.

robson · « **Reply #15 on:** 08 July 2017, 16:22:28 »

I am very sorry but I have got my water pump confused with my thermostat. whaler was for the thermostat my pump I got from gm at a cost of £83.00 in 2013.

robson · « **Reply #16 on:** 08 July 2017, 17:29:46 »

Having got my act together can I suggest that we should be recommending fitting a new thermostat and transfer pipe whilst the front is stripped down. Not too expensive and peace of mind.

Migv6 le Frog Fan · « **Reply #17 on:** 08 July 2017, 19:09:58 »

Wahler thermostats are a good choice imo.

Although, if the present one is behaving itself, I wouldn't change it for the sake of it.

omegod · « **Reply #18 on:** 08 July 2017, 20:42:49 »

Good on you Bill for having a go, I've never tried one myself but good luck

Did you ever change the front wing on your Elite? I have a pair in Z147 silver and you are welcome to whichever you need if you still do, let me know

shyboy · « **Reply #19 on:** 09 July 2017, 09:30:19 »

Robson. Your profile doesn't show your age but I can assure you that such confusion will get worse and worse and worse as time goes by.

The cooling system has always been well looked after with correct anti-freeze so I don't think I'll do the thermostat and transfer pipe on this occasion. My only experience of this job was at a meet at Timbuk's place many years ago when I watched Hotel21 struggle for two hours to remove the transfer pipe from Kate's Omega, having to resort to brute force in the end. But thanks for the suggestion.
Jon. Thanks for the offer. If you recall it was the front bumper that had taken the hit (the wings are both OK), and I've got the one from the gold estate which you kindly gave me, and the one from Minifreek which you saw me repairing. (This latter is now nicely primed up and I must say I'm very pleased with my efforts on it, especially as it was done with spray cans). It will be sensible to ask a paint shop to do the final finish though, and then try to find the time to fit it. Don't hesitate to let me know if you want to witness any part of my losing my cambelt virginity.

Regards,
Bill.

robson · « **Reply #20 on:** 09 July 2017, 11:07:41 »

Hello Bill yes 3 score years and twenty does take its toll as does the heat. All the best for the cambelt job

shyboy · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 July 2017, 16:26:05 »

Thanks Robson. We wrinklies have a lot to offer this forum if only we could remember what it is.
I'll report back out of interest if I survive the ordeal.

Bigron · « **Reply #22 on:** 09 July 2017, 16:34:24 »

I've not done mine, but I have watched James do it. From watching him and from what I've read on here from other members it isn't that difficult, but check, check and check again to be absolutely sure that you have got it right before attempting to run the engine.
I wish you every success.

Ron.

shyboy · « **Reply #23 on:** 09 July 2017, 17:48:29 »

Excellent advice which I shall follow absolutely. The same way I check doors, windows and lights at least three times before I leave the house.

Bigron · « **Reply #24 on:** 09 July 2017, 18:00:32 »

Reminiscent of Edie Pegden, the vile archetypal Ma-in-Law (played by Horror Turd) from last of the Summer Wine!

Ron.

Strangechap · « **Reply #25 on:** 09 July 2017, 22:02:28 »

Quote from: cam.in.head on 08 July 2017, 11:06:22

As far as i can remember .someone please correct me if im wrong here but can you not change the waterpimp on a v6 without taking anything off the engine at all? Just the bagpipes for acess.i seem to remember the bolts are all easy to get at once its pulley is off ?

Yes, you can. It's fiddly and you need to be careful to:

a) Not crack the cambelt cover when you undo the waterpump bolts, as your socket/extension bar will be pressing against it
b) Not drop anything into the covers while removing the pump or while it's out.

I did it. I did crack the plastic cambelt cover a little, but nothing major and I put rag inside the cover to stop anything falling down.

shyboy · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 July 2017, 19:19:06 »

Need a little advice please.
Cam locking tool dropped into place on Cams 1 & 2 but 3 & 4 cams are slightly advanced. I'm not sure how the idler adjusters work. Do I have to loosen the centre torx bolt before adjusting the idler position, obviously tightening it again when correct position is reached. The video shows Mark adjusting the upper idler position to adjust cams 1 & 2 without doing this.
I can't work out how to retard cams 3 & 4. How do I do this?
TIA

JamesV6CDX · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 July 2017, 08:31:58 »

Quote from: shyboy on 20 July 2017, 19:19:06

Need a little advice please.
Cam locking tool dropped into place on Cams 1 & 2 but 3 & 4 cams are slightly advanced. I'm not sure how the idler adjusters work. Do I have to loosen the centre torx bolt before adjusting the idler position, obviously tightening it again when correct position is reached. The video shows Mark adjusting the upper idler position to adjust cams 1 & 2 without doing this.
I can't work out how to retard cams 3 & 4. How do I do this?
TIA

Remove the locks, Spin the crank again, and lock cams 3 and 4 first when they arrive at the correct position.

With cams three and four locked correctly, slightly loosen the E12 torx bolt on the upper idler. The. slowly rotate the top adjustable idler anti clockwise using a 30mm offset ring spanner.

This will then bring cams 1 and 2 into alignment, enabling you to lock them in the correct position.

If you want some (hands on) help, give me a shout. No charge

shyboy · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 July 2017, 10:22:18 »

Hi James,
Nice to hear from you. I hope you are continuing to improve injury wise.
Thanks for clarifying the business of adjusting cams 3 & 4. Seeing Mark adjusting the centre idler without appearing to first loosen the Torx bolt threw me, even though logic told me what I should be doing.
You are a star of the highest order and I will pick your brains again if necessary, but I think I've got it cracked now thanks to your advice.
Will get back to it tomorrow, Sunday, weather permitting.
Thanks again,
Bill.

shyboy · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 July 2017, 18:10:26 »

Just to put this one to bed, this job has been completed due the incredible generosity and assistance of James, who travelled up here, (or is it down), to dig me out of a little mess. 400 mile round trip!!!

I think he must love me.

The car is now going like a bat out of hell again. The man's a genius.
Thanks yet again, James.
Bill.

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Author Topic: This could be a challenge. (Read 3865 times)