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[Muroman]

Hello,

I'm trying to understand the cooling system. X30XE.

There is a extra pump installed under coolant tank.
Hose coming in comes from HBV and also the same hose goes to back of the engine where the aluminum pipe goes.
Hose going out goes straight to heater.

The hose coming from heater goes to HBV.

There is then one hole in HBV left and it goes to coolant bridge.

So what the HBV really does? Which intake/out take it blocks/unblocks when vacuumed/not vacuumed?
And also what controls the vacuum?

-Mika

[Muroman]

And also does this look like right to you?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4rut2jbfwz8zbp/omega.png?dl=0

[Kevin Wood]

And also does this look like right to you?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4rut2jbfwz8zbp/omega.png?dl=0

Yes, but you've got some of the arrows backwards.

Water emerges from the coolant bridge into the HBV. From there, depending on the state of the HBV, it can either return straight to the coolant transfer pipe and back into the engine, or flow via the little electric pump and heater matrix and then back into the transfer pipe. So, the HBV is able to divert flow away from the heater matrix when maximum cooling of the cabin is required.

The electric pump runs to allow coolant circulation around the heater matrix after the car has been shut down as part of the "winter pack" feature, It may also run to increase coolant flow when the engine is running. I've never checked.

[Muroman]

And also does this look like right to you?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4rut2jbfwz8zbp/omega.png?dl=0

Yes, but you've got some of the arrows backwards.

Water emerges from the coolant bridge into the HBV. From there, depending on the state of the HBV, it can either return straight to the coolant transfer pipe and back into the engine, or flow via the little electric pump and heater matrix and then back into the transfer pipe. So, the HBV is able to divert flow away from the heater matrix when maximum cooling of the cabin is required.

The electric pump runs to allow coolant circulation around the heater matrix after the car has been shut down as part of the "winter pack" feature, It may also run to increase coolant flow when the engine is running. I've never checked.

Which of the arrows are wrong ? Because if I change something that kind of means that the electric pump is installed in wrong flow direction?

[Kevin Wood]

And also does this look like right to you?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4rut2jbfwz8zbp/omega.png?dl=0

Yes, but you've got some of the arrows backwards.

Water emerges from the coolant bridge into the HBV. From there, depending on the state of the HBV, it can either return straight to the coolant transfer pipe and back into the engine, or flow via the little electric pump and heater matrix and then back into the transfer pipe. So, the HBV is able to divert flow away from the heater matrix when maximum cooling of the cabin is required.

The electric pump runs to allow coolant circulation around the heater matrix after the car has been shut down as part of the "winter pack" feature, It may also run to increase coolant flow when the engine is running. I've never checked.

Which of the arrows are wrong ? Because if I change something that kind of means that the electric pump is installed in wrong flow direction?

You have the flow direction through the heater matrix and pump reversed, and also in the bypass leg that flows from the HBV to the transfer pipe.

[Muroman]

If you agree with this picture, it means that my electric pump has been installed wrong all along....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h7ts4ztrj5ps3l6/omega3.png?dl=0

EDIT: But now if the HBV is closed the pump can't get water from anywhere?

[Bojan]

That auxilliary pump is activated by climate control, only when the engine is off, and you set the temp to HI (which also opens the HBV fully).
It doesn't work when the engine is running.

[Muroman]

That auxilliary pump is activated by climate control, only when the engine is off, and you set the temp to HI (which also opens the HBV fully).
It doesn't work when the engine is running.

There must be other situations too because mine is running even when Engine is running?

[Bojan]

There must be other situations too because mine is running even when Engine is running?

When climate control on HI, or in some other situations, too?
BTW, don't rule out the fact that some previous owner/garage messed up the wiring.

[Muroman]

There must be other situations too because mine is running even when Engine is running?

When climate control on HI, or in some other situations, too?
BTW, don't rule out the fact that some previous owner/garage messed up the wiring.

I need to verify the situations.

But about the HBV still so is there vacuum when it flows to heater matrix and no vacuum when it goes to engine?
Because that how it looks like when you look at it in pictures.

[Muroman]

The reason why asking all of this and trying to understand the flow, vacuum and HBV is because I'm going to buy a hose heater and it comes to same place as the electric pump is now.

I need to understand the flow before installing the hose heater, otherwise it will break something because it has own pump in it.

When engine and ignition is off, in which state is the HBV? Does it matter in which setting you leaved the heater controls before shutdown?

[Kevin Wood]

OK, the HBV is vacuum operated and without vacuum (engine off) the position of the valve is such that it allows flow through the heater matrix. When vacuum is applied, it bypasses the heater matrix.

This probably means that you can plumb the pre-heater into the circuit where the pump currently is and it will work fine, since it only runs when the engine is stopped.

As to the direction of flow of the pump, I ditched mine a long time ago so I can't check but, if it only operates with the engine stopped, I guess it probably doesn't matter which direction it pumps.

If the climate panel is configured not to have the pump installed, the pump runs all the time, I believe. Could it be that the climate panel has been swapped, or maybe it has the wrong config?

[Muroman]

OK, the HBV is vacuum operated and without vacuum (engine off) the position of the valve is such that it allows flow through the heater matrix. When vacuum is applied, it bypasses the heater matrix.

This probably means that you can plumb the pre-heater into the circuit where the pump currently is and it will work fine, since it only runs when the engine is stopped.

As to the direction of flow of the pump, I ditched mine a long time ago so I can't check but, if it only operates with the engine stopped, I guess it probably doesn't matter which direction it pumps.

If the climate panel is configured not to have the pump installed, the pump runs all the time, I believe. Could it be that the climate panel has been swapped, or maybe it has the wrong config?

Okay, also one more: is it on/off or can it be in some case like 50% open/close?

Is it easy to find out what is config the climate panel has?

Car is brought to Finland from German in early 00s, so there might be some issues with it.

[Kevin Wood]

No. The HBV is either in one state or the other. It probably only bypasses when maximum cooling is required, because normally some heat is used in addition to air conditioning even in summer to achieve the desired temperature at the vents.

A tech 2 is required to check the climate panel config.

I removed my electric pump when I fitted LPG and haven't noticed any issues with heating. I'm guessing that you rely more on the heater in Finnish winters, however!

[Muroman]

No. The HBV is either in one state or the other. It probably only bypasses when maximum cooling is required, because normally some heat is used in addition to air conditioning even in summer to achieve the desired temperature at the vents.

A tech 2 is required to check the climate panel config.

I removed my electric pump when I fitted LPG and haven't noticed any issues with heating. I'm guessing that you rely more on the heater in Finnish winters, however!

Thank you, I'll probably inform what did I do.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Be aware that on pre-facelift cars the aux pump runs when ever the ignition is on to increase heat up times in the cabin (there was no cabin residual heat option on the early setup)

[Muroman]

Be aware that on pre-facelift cars the aux pump runs when ever the ignition is on to increase heat up times in the cabin (there was no cabin residual heat option on the early setup)

Well That explains why it's on all the time. Now i need to think why it's in wrong flow direction....

[Marks DTM Calib]

From memory, the connection to the HBV goes into the nose of the pump and the feed to the heater matrix (bulk head connection, top) is from the side due to the fact its an impeller pump

Your drawing suggests that the t-piece pipe connects to the HBV, heater matrix return pipe and the pump, is that correct?

Usually its to the HBV (lower from memory) connection, heater matrix return (lower connection) and the coolant return pipe from rad (stainless pipe to the rear of block).

[Muroman]

From memory, the connection to the HBV goes into the nose of the pump and the feed to the heater matrix (bulk head connection, top) is from the side due to the fact its an impeller pump

Your drawing suggests that the t-piece pipe connects to the HBV, heater matrix return pipe and the pump, is that correct?

Usually its to the HBV (lower from memory) connection, heater matrix return (lower connection) and the coolant return pipe from rad (stainless pipe to the rear of block).

The nose of the pump goes to heater matrix, I have double checked that now.

Yes the drawing is right, it goes to lower connection of the heater matrix but it just goes trough the pump.


So I think that the electric pump is going to be removed or then put under manual switch because:

In situation where the HBV is vacuumed it doesn't matter which way the pump is pumping it's either creating a pressure or then underperssure to the heater matrix and HBV. . Am I right?

When the HBV is not vacuumed then there could be the pump pumping but only pumping out of the heater matrix because if it would pump against the heater matrix there would be two ways going in.... Am I right?


Also the pre heater that I'm going to install will work just fine pumping into the heater matrix because then the HBV is not vacuumed and the water can go to engine trough HBV... I am right, am I?

[frostbite]

If the heater matrix is connected to the lower port, you'll get hot air on the cold setting and cold air on the hot.

I have done it, and wasted the cup full or so of coolant then having to remove the 2 pipes again to correct it

[Muroman]

If the heater matrix is connected to the lower port, you'll get hot air on the cold setting and cold air on the hot.

I have done it, and wasted the cup full or so of coolant then having to remove the 2 pipes again to correct it

I'm sorry can't understand this?
If I force warm coolant with pump to the heater matrix lower connection, happens what you said? or what did you mean?

[frostbite]

If the valve is connected upside down it will work opposite to what you set the heater dial/ climate control to, so hot becomes cold and vice versa

[Kevin Wood]

Also the pre heater that I'm going to install will work just fine pumping into the heater matrix because then the HBV is not vacuumed and the water can go to engine trough HBV... I am right, am I?

Yes, that should be OK. Pre-heated coolant will circulate through both the heater matrix and engine block, which is what you want.

[Muroman]

Also the pre heater that I'm going to install will work just fine pumping into the heater matrix because then the HBV is not vacuumed and the water can go to engine trough HBV... I am right, am I?

Yes, that should be OK. Pre-heated coolant will circulate through both the heater matrix and engine block, which is what you want.

Okay, thanks. It's all clearing up step by step

If the valve is connected upside down it will work opposite to what you set the heater dial/ climate control to, so hot becomes cold and vice versa

Which valve you are talking here? HBV?

[frostbite]

Yes hbv, there are 2 ports on one side

All im saying is to not to mix them up when reinstalling

[Muroman]

Yes hbv, there are 2 ports on one side

All im saying is to not to mix them up when reinstalling

Okay, yes I'll be careful:)

[Muroman]

HBV never shuts all the way to specific position, there is always a little flow to everywhere at least that is what happens when the HBV is out of car and tested with under pressure pump.

When normal situation, water flows trough the upper and when under pressure flows trough the lower.

It's just that my HBV doesn't always go back to normal situation 
As able to confirm that when engine stop, ignition on, heater set to high and also some blow set sometimes the car cools down quickly and sometimes not at all.
So does it mean HBV broken or could it be the controlling that doesn't always open the HBV?

[frostbite]

When the car has been switched off there is still a vacuum present which has enough power to keep the pressure in the system albeit for a short while.

I dont have climate control but when mine is off and I turn the direction dial, you can hear the flaps hissing then the vacuum dissapears.

Have you checked the rubber couplers on the vac lines?
any signs of cracking will contribute to vacuum loss

I have a line that has nearly worn through where it has been rubbing on the coolant bridge.

Or the diaphram in you hbv is nearing its usefulness and needs replacing

[Muroman]

When the car has been switched off there is still a vacuum present which has enough power to keep the pressure in the system albeit for a short while.

I dont have climate control but when mine is off and I turn the direction dial, you can hear the flaps hissing then the vacuum dissapears.

Have you checked the rubber couplers on the vac lines?
any signs of cracking will contribute to vacuum loss

I have a line that has nearly worn through where it has been rubbing on the coolant bridge.

Or the diaphram in you hbv is nearing its usefulness and needs replacing

I have checked all lines in engine bay and only thing worries me is that the pipe coming from brake servo (big round thingy) has been rubbed against AC line and has little worn but I think it's still okay. I have moved it a bit and now it doesn't touch that AC line anymore.

HBV is the next in line then but when pumping it with under pressure pump it sure works very good, and my pump doesn't even go on scale when the HBV already works.